2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

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2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:20 pm

These sets are now clear for discussion:

IS #127A
128
129A
130
131A
132
133A
134
135A
136
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by pajaro bobo » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:53 pm

One of the A sets had a Neruda TU whose giveaway was "Name this poet whose first name is Pablo", while another (A?) set had a Homer (or some other artist) TU whose giveaway was "Name this artist whose first name is Winslow".

If you (the people who wrote those) couldn't come up with better giveaways while keeping the TUs difficulty appropriate then I don't think you guys should have bothered writing them in the first place.
Last edited by pajaro bobo on Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:49 pm

IS-136 I really liked, however The Rose Bowl tossup was a mess.

Big ups to the person who wrote the Wuthering Heights tossup in IS-136; what were the conversion stats on that?
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Al Hirt » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:13 pm

I actually loved the rose bowl toss up, as well as the Andrew Luck tossup in is 128.

Could I see the Hubert Humphrey and Common Core toss ups from IS 128? I remember negating both of them for rather stupid reasons and would like to see where I went wrong.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:21 pm

Can I see the Delhi tossup from 134? i negged it...
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by ScoBo » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:35 pm

At the NAQT Missouri Qualifier on IS-134, we had a protest on this bonus part that affected who advanced to be the top 4 teams in the tournament:
Bonus ID 345481, appearing as NAQT IS-134, Packet 7, Bonus 10 on March 1 wrote:C. Toulouse-Lautrec was a part of a movement named for coming after this other artistic movement, whose representative painters include Monet and Renoir.
answer: Impressionism ( or Impressionist)
The protesting team answered "post-impressionism", apparently not hearing the "after". (My understanding is that they weren't the only team that provided that answer.) I called NAQT, but since this tournament was the same weekend as CCCT and we were in a hurry to get done because of incoming winter weather, we didn't have time to wait for NAQT to gather others to help resolve the protest and so the protest was denied by whomever answered the phone.

I got the impression that the wording of this bonus would bait a lot of people into answering "post-impressionism", so I asked NAQT to consider rewording the question to avoid this problem. I was told the question was reworded in response to my request, so could you post the current version of this bonus part? Did anyone else have issues with this bonus?
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:43 pm

Al Hirt wrote:I actually loved the rose bowl toss up, as well as the Andrew Luck tossup in is 128.

Could I see the Hubert Humphrey and Common Core toss ups from IS 128? I remember negating both of them for rather stupid reasons and would like to see where I went wrong.
Two problems I saw with the Rose Bowl tossup: 1) it was the 20th tossup of a round (If they skipped the comp math) 2) the Vince Young clue was faulty since that also referred to the college football national championship game. My understanding was the NCG was promptable but that doesn't change the fact the lead-in was ambiguous.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Lefty734 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:54 pm

ScoBo wrote:At the NAQT Missouri Qualifier on IS-134, we had a protest on this bonus part that affected who advanced to be the top 4 teams in the tournament:
Bonus ID 345481, appearing as NAQT IS-134, Packet 7, Bonus 10 on March 1 wrote:C. Toulouse-Lautrec was a part of a movement named for coming after this other artistic movement, whose representative painters include Monet and Renoir.
answer: Impressionism ( or Impressionist)
The protesting team answered "post-impressionism", apparently not hearing the "after". (My understanding is that they weren't the only team that provided that answer.) I called NAQT, but since this tournament was the same weekend as CCCT and we were in a hurry to get done because of incoming winter weather, we didn't have time to wait for NAQT to gather others to help resolve the protest and so the protest was denied by whomever answered the phone.

I got the impression that the wording of this bonus would bait a lot of people into answering "post-impressionism", so I asked NAQT to consider rewording the question to avoid this problem. I was told the question was reworded in response to my request, so could you post the current version of this bonus part? Did anyone else have issues with this bonus?
Our team said the same thing and was marked incorrect. I heard the word "after" but was still rather confused as to whether it wanted impressionism or post-impressionism.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Al Hirt » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:04 pm

Sniper, No Sniping! wrote:
Al Hirt wrote:I actually loved the rose bowl toss up, as well as the Andrew Luck tossup in is 128.

Could I see the Hubert Humphrey and Common Core toss ups from IS 128? I remember negating both of them for rather stupid reasons and would like to see where I went wrong.
Two problems I saw with the Rose Bowl tossup: 1) it was the 20th tossup of a round (If they skipped the comp math) 2) the Vince Young clue was faulty since that also referred to the college football national championship game. My understanding was the NCG was promptable but that doesn't change the fact the lead-in was ambiguous.
I recall saying BCS National championship game and the moderator saying he could take it it at that point (I buzzed at the Vince Young clue). I don't particularly feel strongly towards placement of trash, so I guess I can concede that point.

It was definitely one of the better sports questions through all the IS Sets this year, in any case.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:12 pm

Al Hirt wrote:
Sniper, No Sniping! wrote:
Al Hirt wrote:I actually loved the rose bowl toss up, as well as the Andrew Luck tossup in is 128.

Could I see the Hubert Humphrey and Common Core toss ups from IS 128? I remember negating both of them for rather stupid reasons and would like to see where I went wrong.
Two problems I saw with the Rose Bowl tossup: 1) it was the 20th tossup of a round (If they skipped the comp math) 2) the Vince Young clue was faulty since that also referred to the college football national championship game. My understanding was the NCG was promptable but that doesn't change the fact the lead-in was ambiguous.
I recall saying BCS National championship game and the moderator saying he could take it it at that point (I buzzed at the Vince Young clue). I don't particularly feel strongly towards placement of trash, so I guess I can concede that point.

It was definitely one of the better sports questions through all the IS Sets this year, in any case.
Agreed, I did enjoy the sports, especially the NBA tossups.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:33 pm

Sniper, No Sniping! wrote:Two problems I saw with the Rose Bowl tossup: 1) it was the 20th tossup of a round (If they skipped the comp math) .
I don't know anything about football, so your substantive criticisms of this question may well be on-point, but this comment is pretty useless. Every tossup in a game determines the outcome of a game, not just the last one, and every tossup has to be edited to good standards, regardless of where it is placed. What's more, much of packet placement as I understand it is essentially random, and editors only have time to fix serious issues (such as two tossups on Shakespeare in the same round) with the limited time that they have, rather than hand-crafting which question ends a game (especially impossible for NAQT given differences between comp-math inclusive, non-comp-math-inclusive, timed, and untimed events).
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by High Dependency Unit » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:36 pm

Can I see the Boston Marathon TU (IS-A 127)? From what I recall it was negged by both of our teams with "marathon".
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:37 pm

IS 136 round 1 wrote:In 2006 this event ended when Vince Young rushed on fourth down with 19 seconds left and scored a touchdown, beating USC by three points. A two-point victory for TCU in 2011 was the first of three straight appearances and defeats in this event for (*) Wisconsin, which lost to Stanford in 2013. "The Granddaddy of Them All" is the nickname of--for 10 points--what football bowl game played in Pasadena and named for a flower?

answer: _Rose Bowl_ Game (accept _Rose_ after "bowl"; accept _BCS National Championship_ Game or _Bowl Championship Series National Championship_ Game before "TCU"; prompt on "national championship" or similar answers that do not mention "BCS" before "TCU")
IS 128 round 2 wrote:The written standards for this initiative employ a public license that uses copyright law to prevent states from altering them. Those standards were prepared under the direction of the National Governors Association and were incorporated into the (*) Race to the Top program upon the publication of their math and language components in 2010. For 10 points--name this nationwide curriculum adopted by 45 states.

answer: _common core_ (accept _Common Core State Standards Initiative_)
IS 128 round 2 wrote:In 1974 this senator co-authored a full employment act with Augustus Hawkins, and two years later he unsuccessfully challenged Robert Byrd for the post of majority leader. In an earlier stint representing Minnesota in the Senate he had been majority whip and become known as the (*) "Happy Warrior." For 10 points--name this vice president under Lyndon Johnson who was the 1968 Democratic presidential nominee.
IS 134 round 6 wrote:A kingdom based in this city was founded by Iltutmish. The Sayyid dynasty came to power in this city after its 1398 sack by Tamerlane. This city's Lodi dynasty was defeated by Babur at the 1526 Battle of Panipat. Its Kashmiri Gate and Lal Qila, or (*) Red Fort, were built by Shah Jahan, who made this city the capital of the Mughal Empire. For 10 points--name this city whose "New" district is the current capital of India.

answer: _Delhi_ (accept _Old Delhi_ or _New Delhi_)
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:40 pm

ScoBo wrote: I got the impression that the wording of this bonus would bait a lot of people into answering "post-impressionism", so I asked NAQT to consider rewording the question to avoid this problem. I was told the question was reworded in response to my request, so could you post the current version of this bonus part? Did anyone else have issues with this bonus?
The original was indeed confusing; we reworded it to this:
revised version of IS 134 round 7 wrote:Toulouse-Lautrec was a part of this art movement whose name denotes that it succeeded a movement that included Monet and Renoir.

answer: _Post-Impressionism_ (or _Post-Impressionist_; do not accept or prompt on "Impressionism")
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:42 pm

Sniper, No Sniping! wrote:
Al Hirt wrote:I actually loved the rose bowl toss up, as well as the Andrew Luck tossup in is 128.

Could I see the Hubert Humphrey and Common Core toss ups from IS 128? I remember negating both of them for rather stupid reasons and would like to see where I went wrong.
Two problems I saw with the Rose Bowl tossup: 1) it was the 20th tossup of a round (If they skipped the comp math) 2) the Vince Young clue was faulty since that also referred to the college football national championship game. My understanding was the NCG was promptable but that doesn't change the fact the lead-in was ambiguous.
This indeed had an answer line clause allowing for alternate answers. What do you consider problematic about this being tossup 20 in the packet?
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:45 pm

Smooth coarea formula wrote:Can I see the Boston Marathon TU (IS-A 127)? From what I recall it was negged by both of our teams with "marathon".
IS 131A round 7 wrote:Clarence DeMar won this event 7 times. Its 1980 women's champion, Rosie Ruiz, was disqualified for cheating. 2 hours, 3 minutes, and 2 seconds is the fastest time ever at this (*) race whose participants climb Heartbreak Hill. For 10 points--name this 26-mile event marred by a 2013 bombing.

answer: _Boston Marathon_ (do not prompt on "marathon")
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:07 pm

My time to write during this last school year was really limited, but here's what I contributed as a writer for these sets. I'll be honest in that for some of these, I don't remember how much of them were what I wrote and how much of them were changes after the fact. I'll do my best to cop to any mistakes I made all the same.

IS-127A

Rd. 1 bonus: Taylor Swift/We Are Never Ever etc/Fleetwood Mac
Rd. 2 bonus: Trivial Pursuit/Magic: the Gathering/Axis & Allies
Rd. 5 bonus: Hanging Gardens/Mauseoleum/Lighthouse
Rd. 6 TU: Tony Hawk

IS-128

Rd 3 TU: Ansel Adams
Rd 4 TU: YMCA (the song)
Rd 5 TU: Telemachus
Rd 5 bonus: platinum/zinc/cadmium
Rd 6 bonus: Dartmouth/Ralph Nader/Noam Chomsky
Rd 9 TU: Jason
Rd 9 bonus: Ode to a Nightingale/Keats/Ode on a Grecian Urn
Rd 11 bonus: Birth of Venus/Botticelli/La Primavera
Rd 12 bonus: Potato Famine/Corn Laws/Robert Peel
Rd 13 bonus: Neymar/Brazil/Barcelona
Rd 14 bonus: Second Punic/Hasdrubal/Scipio Africanus

IS-129A

Rd 5 TU: Macklemore

IS-130

Rd 1 TU: Brady Bunch
Rd 1 TU: Blurred Lines
Rd 2 TU: Nabokov
Rd 2 TU:Midas
Rd 2 bonus: War of 1812/Oliver Perry/USS Lawrence
Rd 3 bonus: 99 Problems/Jay-Z/DOA
Rd 4 TU: Cincinnati Reds
Rd 4 TU: Dave Grohl
Rd 6 TU: Yellow Submarine
Rd 6 Bonus: Bernini/Rome/Ecstasy of St. Teresa
Rd 9 bonus: Fallingwater/Wright/Tokyo
Rd 11 TU: Oedipus
Rd 12 TU: cell membrane
Rd 12 TU: Fibonacci sequence
Rd 13 TU: 101 Dalmatians

IS-131A

Rd 2 bonus: Starry Night/Van Gogh/self-portraits
Rd 3 bonus: Bolsheviks/1917/Nicholas II

IS-132

Rd 5 TU: Antigone
Rd 7 TU: Denver Broncos
Rd 9 TU: Bob's Burgers
Rd 10 TU: Helen of Troy
Rd 12 bonus: Beijing/Grand Canal/Yellow River

IS-133A

Rd 10 bonus: Magritte/Belgium/film
Rd 11 bonus: Born in the USA/Springsteen/guitar
Rd 12 TU: OneRepublic

IS-134

Rd 11 bonus: amphibians/Anura/nictitating membrane

IS-135A

Rd1 bonus: Hamlet/to be or not to be/Gertrude
Rd 1 bonus: Cronus/Tartarus/Zeus

IS-136

Rd 11 bonus: Io/Europa/Semele
Rd 11 bonus: Texas/Kansas/North Dakota (re: abortion)
Rd 14 TU: Cassandra
Rd 14 TU: Dwight Howard
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by samus149 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:36 pm

My only big complaints about questions this year are the two IS sets (I think 130 and 132) that had a tossup on angular momentum which started by asking about Clebsch-Gordon coefficients, and the extremely difficult coin collecting bonus from IS-136.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Banana Stand » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:50 pm

Corner Grocery Store wrote:a tossup on angular momentum which started by asking about Clebsch-Gordon coefficients
This question resulted in me acting a fool by laughing when I buzzed in on it. Of course, I clarified that I was laughing because of how hilariously bad a lead-in it was.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by High Dependency Unit » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:00 pm

That coin collecting bonus was absurdly hard. Can I see it?
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:10 pm

Corner Grocery Store wrote:the extremely difficult coin collecting bonus from IS-136.
IS 136 round 5 wrote:For 10 points each--give these terms encountered in coin collecting:

A. This is the front of the coin, in contrast to the "reverse."

answer: _obverse_ (prompt on "heads")

B. This is a carefully struck and polished coin produced specifically for collectors.

answer: _proof_

C. This is the formal name for the hobby of coin collecting; it also covers the collecting of medals.

answer: _numismatics_ (accept _numismatism_ or _exonumia_)
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Schroeder » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:40 am

Could I see the tossup on the bow, to see how it was described? I believe it was in IS-130.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:31 am

IS 130 round 1 wrote:This piece of equipment is to be bounced upon encountering the directive saltando, and it is flipped over when one encounters the directive col legno. They are traditionally made of pernambuco wood and have a piece called a (*) "frog" at one end that fixes the horsehair in place. Itzhak Perlman makes use of--for 10 points--what piece of musical equipment that is drawn across the strings of a violin?

answer: _bow_(s) (accept more specific types of bow such as _violin bow_)
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Victor Prieto » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:39 pm

Did the Secretary of State tossup from 131A get fixed? When I read it in January, it was virtually a list tossup.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:12 pm

I played a couple of the tournaments back in my head the other night, and there was one question that really is sticking out to me that is bothersome; there was a tossup on Colorado (IS-136) that mentioned Chimney Rock in the first line. I negged instantly with "Nebraska", because the site in Nebraska is very notable for its formation (and for being on the Nebraska state quarter). Apparently, there is also a Chimney Rock in Colorado, but I think many would agree with me that the place in Nebraska is much more famous and recognizable than the one that is apparently in Colorado. I think the Chimney Rock reference is problematic, but perhaps there is context I am missing for the clue. I would say I got hosed, but doing research on the Chimney Rock in Colorado suggests President Obama was there to "make it a 'monument'", which I think the question does mention. I suppose that could be what disambiguates the two, but I think nonetheless its a weak distinguish since it was not a very famous event.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:32 pm

IS #136 round 12 wrote:In September 2012 Barack Obama established the Chimney Rock National Monument in this state's San Juan National Forest.
This is indeed potentially misleading; I'll think about ways to rephrase it.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Deviant Insider » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:01 pm

Sniper, No Sniping! wrote:I played a couple of the tournaments back in my head the other night, and there was one question that really is sticking out to me that is bothersome; there was a tossup on Colorado (IS-136) that mentioned Chimney Rock in the first line. I negged instantly with "Nebraska", because the site in Nebraska is very notable for its formation (and for being on the Nebraska state quarter). Apparently, there is also a Chimney Rock in Colorado, but I think many would agree with me that the place in Nebraska is much more famous and recognizable than the one that is apparently in Colorado. I think the Chimney Rock reference is problematic, but perhaps there is context I am missing for the clue. I would say I got hosed, but doing research on the Chimney Rock in Colorado suggests President Obama was there to "make it a 'monument'", which I think the question does mention. I suppose that could be what disambiguates the two, but I think nonetheless its a weak distinguish since it was not a very famous event.
I just drove past Chimney Rock, Wisconsin, so I would have gone with that.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Lefty734 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:34 pm

There is also a Chimney Rock in North Carolina.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by The Stately Rhododendron » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:28 pm

The National Monument is the important part. It's one of a series of monuments he's created (Presidents have the power to create National Monuments w/o congressional approval). I'm sure there are many rocks named after chimneys, but there's only one chimney rock national monument.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by AKKOLADE » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:53 pm

I'm personally fine with that lead-in for the reasons Isaac posted.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by hydrocephalitic listlessness » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:31 pm

Mr. Joyboy wrote:The National Monument is the important part. It's one of a series of monuments he's created (Presidents have the power to create National Monuments w/o congressional approval). I'm sure there are many rocks named after chimneys, but there's only one chimney rock national monument.
Sure, but the reason that it's a lead-in is that very few people know this, and it's a bit much to ask players to decide on the fly whether that other Chimney Rock they know about is a National Monument or not (especially because "National Monument" comes after "Chimney Rock" in the clue). This is made harder by the fact that the clue is just binary name-matching (i.e. it doesn't give any information/description of Colorado's Chimney Rock). It's just not great when a clue is more likely to penalize certain people for knowing things than it is to reward other people for knowing another thing, which I think is the case here.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:40 pm

The designation took place a year and a half ago back in April when the set was played and did not get a ton of media coverage/hoopla when it happened; considering there are a hundred or so national monuments and the Chimney Rock in Colorado isn't as widely famous as the one in Nebraska, I'm not sure what the expectation was that it would make for a reasonable lead-in for high schoolers*

* - unless it would've had a cautionary tag of "it's not Nebraska, but" in which case I would see nothing wrong with the tossup. Seeing as how caveats has been used in quiz bowl questions before, I don't see why it can't work here.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by cchiego » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:09 pm

I doubt a description of the rocks named for the fact they look like chimneys is going to help differentiate between things too much. Even including a mention of the cultural elements within the national monument would have been susceptible to the same reflex-buzz issues: including a mention of kivas, Chaco culture, etc. may have gotten a New Mexico buzz (although there are plenty of kivas in Colorado too that people should know about). A more specific physical geography clue like Pagosa Springs would have been more unique to start things off if the first clue was going to be about physical geography specifically, but that's not what the first clue is about.

The question as written referred to the place the president came to and established a national monument in 2012. This clue is referring to a specific current geography event. If the question was written so that the Chimney Rock element came before the mention of Obama establishing it as a national monument, then that would have been more cause for concern. But a good geography player should know that there are multiple chimney rocks (just like there are multiple characters named whatever in literature) and waited if she/he didn't know the clue since the lead-in involved the specific event that took place there (and then, apparently, went on to offer other geographic clues like the San Juan Forest).
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Corry » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:11 pm

A quick search on the NAQT writer's database reveals about 30 questions mentioning the Chimney Rock in Nebraska, and 1 question mentioning a Chimney Rock anywhere else (take a wild guess as to which question that is).

Yes, technically there is nothing wrong the Colorado question, because it makes clear that it's talking about a national monument, Barack Obama was involved, there are multiple Chimney Rocks, etc. However, that doesn't change the fact that this question will probably play poorly.
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Re: 2013-14 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by swwFCqb » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:05 pm

So, I wrote the Colorado question being discussed. Being well aware of the notoriety of the Chimney Rock in Nebraska, the thought of players possibly mixing up the two had crossed my mind as I wrote the question. I guess I was, perhaps naively, thinking/hoping that mentioning a recent action by Barack Obama prior to dropping "Chimney Rock" would be enough to dissuade players from buzzing automatically with Nebraska, but it appears that I was wrong in at least one case (interestingly, I believe I was reading for you for that question Tom); although, I am happy to see in the published stats that, despite the small sample size, the only 2 rooms that heard the question did not neg. While I'm not sure it's a true hose, I agree that it would improve the playability to mention "San Juan National Forest" and "National Monument" (or put in an "It's not Nebraska, but..." disclaimer) prior to mentioning Chimney Rock.

I apologize to anyone who negged on the question because of the Chimney Rock clue, and I will try to take better care with similar situations in future questions.
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