Rowdy Raider Invitational (12/6/14) Dayton, OH

[djones]

The 9th Annual Rowdy Raider Invitational will take place at Northmont High School, Clayton, OH on Saturday, December 6, 2014. We will use NAQT set IS-140.

The initial field cap will be 36 teams, but I will try to open that up if there is interest and I can secure enough competent readers. Each year, this tournament draws an excellent field from Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky and surrounding states, and we would love to have a large field again this year.

Teams will be broken into 6 preliminary brackets of 6 teams each and will play round robin. At the conclusion of morning play, teams will be re-bracketed into 6 brackets of 6 to play another round robin, with the top 12 teams at the conclusion of preliminary play being eligible for the tournament championship. A championship match will be played between the winners of the two championship flights in the afternoon.

FEES:
First Team: $70
Each Additional Team: $55
BUZZER DISCOUNT: -$5 per buzzer system, limit one per team that you are bringing.
MODERATOR DISCOUNT: -$10 for a competent moderator. Please let me know in advance if you are planning to claim this discount. Given that this tournament draws a strong field each year and we want the best possible readers available, we may deny some requests.
FIRST TIME ATTENDEE: -$25. If your team has not attended the Rowdy Raider Invitational in the past, you can claim this discount.

To register or for more information, please email djones [AT] northmontschools [DOT] net. I hope to see you in Ohio this December!!

[djones]

Field Update (FULL)
Ballard (KY)
Carroll (OH)
Copley (OH) (x2)
Culver (IN) (x2)
Detroit Catholic Central (MI) (x2)
Dunbar (KY) (X2)
Dupont Manual (KY) (x2)
Fisher Catholic (OH) PAID
Little Miami (OH) (x2)
Louisville Eastern (KY)
Loveland (OH) (x2) PAID
Miami Valley School (x2) (OH)
North White (IN)
Northmont (OH) (x2) PAID
Olentangy Liberty (OH) (x2)
Olmsted Falls (OH)
Russell (KY)
St. Charles (OH) (x3)
St. Josephs (IN)
Sidney (OH) (x2) PAID
Solon (OH) (x2)
Tippecanoe (OH) PAID

Interested:
Wyoming A and B
Northmont C and D
St. Charles D

[crbirdx]

Olentangy Liberty HS will be sending 2 teams

[djones]

Great, you're in!

[crbirdx]

Thanks!!

[djones]

This tournament has been Platinum certified by PACE, meaning that the top 25% of the field will qualify for the PACE NSC.

[djones]

Field is filling quickly with a lot of great teams. Since we have no room to expand beyond 36, I would recommend registering quickly if interested. Would love to see some new teams from out of state make their first appearance at Rowdy Raider!

[crbirdx]

Olentangy Liberty has a tentative 3rd team.

[djones]

I'll put you as interested right now- let me know once you confirm and i'll get you added officially.

[djones]

Still over a month and a half out, and we are nearing the field cap. Any team interested in participating, please register ASAP as due to construction at the school I have no room to expand beyond the 36 team cap.

[NLiu]

St. Joseph (IN) expresses interest for 1 team

[djones]

Only two spots left. If anyone is thinking about coming but hasn't confirmed or let me know, now would be the time. I expect it to fill in the next day or two.

[djones]

Field is now full. Due to construction at the school, we have no room to expand. Please let me know if you want to be added to the waitlist in the event that we have any teams drop. I'm excited about the great field and look forward to seeing all teams in Dayton in December!

[djones]

Field is still full, but amended to include the addition of Olmsted Falls and Miami Valley School and the removal of Middletown. If you are interested in joining the waiting list, let me know, as I would anticipate a 1-2 newer teams may drop before the event.

[bsrich00]

David,

Ballard (KY) would like to be added to the waitlist, just in case.

Thanks!

[djones]

Northmont A defeated DCC 580-150 in the championship to win the Rowdy Raider Invitational. The top eight teams were:
1) Northmont (11-0)
2) DCC (10-1)
T3) Fisher Catholic, Sidney, Solon, Copley (8-2)
T7) St. Charles, Russell (6-4)

Full stats are upcoming once i get them moved from my laptop. Thanks to all teams who attended!

[djones]

Full stats have now been posted and can be found here: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/2336/

Thanks again to everyone who attended!

[Ras superfamily]

It doesn't really make sense to carry over preliminary records and then replay games against preliminary bracket opponents, but since that was done, the correct way to calculate final records would probably ignore those preliminary records. Is there a reason that Sidney had to count its morning loss to Fisher Catholic, for example? It makes an unbalanced schedule when teams have to play multiple games against select playoff opponents.

[djones]

Morning records were carried over so as to not penalize the teams that went 7-0 in the morning from being eliminated with one loss in the afternoon from contention. Since NAQT only sends me 12 packets for this tournament (Tipp's local league uses packets 13 and 14 by an agreement made years ago), we don't have the ability to do multiple tiebreakers as I would if I had all 14 packets. That format was announced before the tournament began. As it happened to play out, when we snaked the top eight teams into the two parallel playoff brackets, it led to rematches in all four cases. This was not intentional, just the way the numbers played out when we did the reseeding. However, I don't see any reason why Fisher and Sidney, both 8-2 and both with a win over the other and losses to Northmont shouldn't finish tied for third. Why should one win take precedence over the other? The same thing goes with Copley and Solon on the other side- both were 8-2 with a win over the other, and both with losses to DCC. They finished tied as well.

As it stands, it doesn't matter in the outcome of the tournament, as Northmont and DCC cleared both brackets anyway and played a one game final, with each team entering undefeated. The format was announced at the beginning of the day (with records carrying), as the records and PPB fell on the reseed, rematches happened. Not much we could do about it.

[Ras superfamily]

Morning records were carried over so as to not penalize the teams that went 7-0 in the morning from being eliminated with one loss in the afternoon from contention.

7-0 teams can still be eliminated with one loss in the afternoon in your format. What if Fisher went undefeated in the playoffs? Northmont would have been eliminated with one loss.

Since NAQT only sends me 12 packets for this tournament (Tipp's local league uses packets 13 and 14 by an agreement made years ago), we don't have the ability to do multiple tiebreakers as I would if I had all 14 packets. That format was announced before the tournament began. As it happened to play out, when we snaked the top eight teams into the two parallel playoff brackets, it led to rematches in all four cases. This was not intentional, just the way the numbers played out when we did the reseeding.

If you only have 12 packets, it would probably be better to set the playoff brackets up beforehand such that each playoff bracket of 4 only requires 2 rounds of games and skips the repeat games (this would reduce the guaranteed number of games to 9 but allow you to have a tiebreaker packet before finals, 1 final packet, and an extra for mishaps during the day / replacement questions). Alternatively, you could set the playoff brackets up such that each one contains exactly one team from each of the four preliminary brackets, thereby eliminating the possibility of repeated games (this would allow you to keep the 10 game guarantee). I would also like to point out that, if preliminary seeding is done exactly correctly, the afternoon brackets will always end up with repeat opponents in a 4x8 -> 8x4 scheme.

However, I don't see any reason why Fisher and Sidney, both 8-2 and both with a win over the other and losses to Northmont shouldn't finish tied for third. Why should one win take precedence over the other? The same thing goes with Copley and Solon on the other side- both were 8-2 with a win over the other, and both with losses to DCC. They finished tied as well.

The issue here is not with how this tournament played out. It is very fortunate that Fisher/Sidney and Copley/Solon both ended up 1-1 against each other and lost to the same opponent, but what if Fisher beat Northmont in the playoffs? Then you have Northmont and Fisher both at 9-1, but Fisher's one loss was on a repeat game against Sidney.

As it stands, it doesn't matter in the outcome of the tournament, as Northmont and DCC cleared both brackets anyway and played a one game final, with each team entering undefeated. The format was announced at the beginning of the day (with records carrying), as the records and PPB fell on the reseed, rematches happened. Not much we could do about it.

As I mentioned above, with perfect seeding you will always end up with rematches; this wasn't just a random improbable occurrence but rather a very likely one, so it's better to account for this beforehand with your schedule.

[djones]

Well seeing that everything ran ahead of schedule at the tournament, every coach went home happy, and the two best teams played in the final, I'm pretty happy with how things turned out. I am not going to engage in a typical forum -fest over something that didn't even matter, so your concern is noted and I will take it into consideration next year.

Post edited to remove profanity - the Mgmt.

[Ras superfamily]

Well seeing that everything ran ahead of schedule at the tournament

That's great, though it has no implication on the fairness of the format.

every coach went home happy

Maybe this is true, but I would be very surprised if you actually heard from every coach that he or she was happy, and again this does not imply anything about the fairness of the format.

and the two best teams played in the final

This is a claim that you simply can't defend. Who is to say that Sidney or Fisher was not the second best team in the tournament? There certainly weren't any games played that suggest that they were not. That's not necessarily a problem since there are plenty of reasonable formats that can suffer from a similar issue, but you can't just say things.

I am not going to engage in a typical forum bitchfest over something that didn't even matter, so your concern is noted and I will take it into consideration next year.

It's unfortunate that you choose to respond in such a contemptuous manner when receiving legitimate feedback, but I will again point out that my points about fairness are not just aesthetic concerns of some sort but serious issues with the fairness of the tournament.

[djones]

Got it saajid- thank you.

[Cody]

For reference, Cavalier Classic's playoff format is applicable here and would've been much better. At some point, a team has to win games to stay in championship contention.

Of course, not trying to run 32 teams on 12 packets would solve most of your problems, since you could then play off for first place in each top flight for the Cav Classic format, do the double-elim schedule VCU just did that takes the top 3 from 4 brackets, or really so many other things that are more fair.