St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

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St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:36 pm

Saint Joseph High School is pleased to announce that it will host its 5th Annual Garden State Academic Competition, a Mirror of GSAC XXII, on Saturday December 20, 2014.

The Set: The Question Set is authored by our distinguished friends from the Maggie Walker Governor's School in Richmond, Virginia

Set Distribution: 4/4 Lit; 4/4 Science; 4/4 History; 3/3 RMP; 3/3 Fine Arts; 1/1 Social Science; .5/.5 Geography; .5/.5 Trash.

Fee Structure: $80.00 for the first team; $70.00 for each additional team.

Discounts: $10.00 for each working buzzer system; $20.00 for each moderator; $20.00 for travel of more than 100 miles to SJHS. Minimum payment per team: $40.00.

Registration: We are targeting a registration of 18-36 teams, with a limit of 4 teams per school, ideally hoping for three to six brackets of 6 teams each. HOWEVER, in order to give as many schools as possible a reasonable time to register, we will initially only accept the first TWO teams a school wishes to register until Monday, December 1st, after which we will accept from the waiting list the 3rd or even the 4th teams you wish to register. So, let us know when you register how many teams you wish to bring, and any in excess of two will be placed on the waiting list. After December 1st, teams will come off the waiting list if there is room in the field on a first come, first served basis. As for the tournament itself, we will have round-robin preliminaries, then re-bracket during our lunch break and have another round-robin for all teams in the afternoon. We hope to have a minimum of 10 matches for all teams and 11 for those in the Championship brackets. You can reveal your interest by posting here, but in order to officially register please email me at edwardpowers948@msn.com Just place "SJHS GSAC" in the subject line and then provide your registration information as well as an emergency phone number where coaches or chaperones can be quickly reached if necessary. On the day of the tournament we will run registration from 7:45-8:45 AM and start Round 1 by 9AM. During registration we will provide a light breakfast of bagels and juice while we finalize preliminary brackets. Also, we have ample parking in the back of our school if parking is a concern, and you can park behind our Main Building and enter the cafeteria in the back , which you cannot miss. Also, if you need an invoice for your school's financial officer, email me and I will send one via return email.

Payment: This is expected in cash or by check the morning of registration, but if you wish to mail it sooner make your check payable to Saint Joseph High School and mail it to: Ed Powers, c/o Saint Joseph High School, 145 Plainfield Avenue, Metuchen, New Jersey 08840. You can also place this address in your GPS or your MapQuest/Google Maps program and find us easily. We look forward to seeing you on the 20th of December!

Current Field: School Name & the number of Teams/Buzzers/Moderators:

Livingston: 2/2/2
West Egg: 1/0/0
North Babylon: 2/3/0
Wilmington Charter: 4/0/0
Mountain Lakes: 2/2/1

Manheim Township: 2/2/1
Kellenberg: 1/3/1
Ridgewood: 1/0/0
High Tech: 3/2/0
Ithaca: 2/1/1
Deep Green: 2/1/0
Gotham: 1/0/0
Hunter: 3/1/1
Bergen Academies: 2/1/0
MAST: 2/0/0
Emmaus: 1/0/0
Millburn: 2/2/0
State College: 2/2/0
Lehigh Valley Academy: 1/0/0


Totals as of December 17th:

36/22/7

Waiting List:
Last edited by Edward Powers on Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:26 am, edited 25 times in total.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:37 pm

Teams on the waiting list will be moved into the field, if there is still room, starting December 2nd. Until then we naturally invite schools that have not yet registered to do so before December 2nd if they wish to hear the excellent set by Maggie Walker. Right now our hard cap is 30-36 teams, so there is currently room for 5-11 teams from schools that have not yet registered. Come join the fun!
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:10 am

As of today, November 22nd, 36 teams from 19 schools have registered, so we have reached our hard cap for the tournament. Nevertheless, I will still maintain a waiting list in case some teams drop between now and December 20th.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:22 pm

Starting tomorrow, December 2nd, teams on the waiting list will be moved into the field IF any teams currently registered decide to drop out completely from the field or if they decide to drop one of their 2 teams. Right now we have 36 registered teams, which is the hard cap for the field, but some schools have indicated that they might need to drop one or both teams. Please, if you are one of those schools, let me know ASAP so that teams on the waiting list have a reasonable amount of time to learn that they have been moved into the field. Thanks!
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:32 pm

With the drop of 2 teams, State College's 2 teams have been removed from the waiting list and now are in the field of 36. Also, if the Morlan Rankings are used, 12 of the Top 100 teams in the country will be in attendance, so it should be a wonderfully competitive tournament.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by czheng0708 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:48 pm

Mr. Powers, sorry for the inconvenience. But we'd like to drop 3 of the 4 teams that we signed up originally. Thank you!
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:27 pm

Christopher,

I will make the changes you request immediately,moving the next team(s) on the waiting list into the field.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:31 pm

With the drop of 2 teams, the 3rd teams from both Livingston and North Babylon have been moved into the field from the waiting list.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:15 pm

With the drop of 2 more teams, Wilmington Charter's 2 teams on the waiting list have been moved into the 36 team field, giving Charter a total of 4 teams in the field.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by jonpin » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:06 pm

Hey, I'd just like to make a general note to the local circuit as a whole: Stop signing up for several more teams than you need and then cancelling down on short notice. I understand WHY you are doing so; fields fill up quickly and if you don't register your 4 teams instantly, they won't get in. But if you register four teams two months in advance and don't have the interest to fill those teams, cancelling earlier is far better than the week of. You wind up with teams being moved into the field just a few days beforehand. This in turn can result in delays for the tournament hosts to get paid. In a worst case scenario, a team is unable to get people to attend on such short notice (because they've made other plans or are unable to get busing), and the tournament winds up with an awkward number like 2 or 3 teams short of the original field cap.

This is not to castigate those who sincerely have other issues at the last moment, or who drop from 2 teams to 1 team due to individual cancellations. Merely, it is to say do not wildly overestimate your signups, and if you must cancel teams, do so as early as possible so that teams can be invited off the wait list.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Mark Wolfsberg » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:13 pm

If the tournament had not been full with such a long waiting list Bethlehem might have signed up for it rather than going to Lexington. So the situation definitely kept us away. I suggest a penalty for cancellations.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by RexSueciae » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:28 pm

Given the way things seem to be going, you could probably enter a team on the waitlist right now and still get in. :razz:
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by ryanrosenberg » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:39 pm

I think that the initial two team limit for registration helps alleviate the problem Jon points out and also helps get more teams involved. I'd encourage hosts in the region to consider using it at their tournaments, especially if you think the field will fill quickly.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by High Dependency Unit » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:56 pm

The Predictable Consequences wrote:I think that the initial two team limit for registration helps alleviate the problem Jon points out and also helps get more teams involved. I'd encourage hosts in the region to consider using it at their tournaments, especially if you think the field will fill quickly.
This tournament used a two-team limit, and it created this problem. Announcing a tournament and announcing registration would open via a google form a couple weeks after seemed to work in the region last year, and I could see it working as it gives teams time to gauge players' interests.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:12 pm

Last year this tournament filled up in less than 24 hours, hence my initial rule to only allow 2 teams from each school to enter immediately, with 3rd and 4th teams from schools placed on the waiting list until December 2nd. The result has been that the field had 19 different schools registered, most with 2 teams and 2 with 1 team---until this weekend when, for a variety of reasons, several teams dropped 1 team, so I began moving teams in off of the waiting list, but then these dropped as well. I still have a 36 team field, with 3 teams still on the waiting list, AND, 12 or 13 of the 19 schools registered have "A" Teams that are ranked in Morlan's Top 100, so the policy of only allowing 2 teams in at first to give as many schools as possible a chance to register has been successful in allowing a diverse and talented field to register, I think, AND it prevented the field from filling up in 24 hours or so. For example, relative to most teams, State College signed up weeks after most teams did and so was put on the waiting list---but now it is in the field, making the field as a whole even more competitive. I understand why Bethlehem did not sign up even though if it had it would doubtless enjoy competing in this very talented field, for even though the field did not fill up in 24 hours, it did fill up in about 6 or 7 days, perhaps before Bethlehem was even aware of its posting. We (SJHS) missed the recent Columbia University Tournament because its field filled up in about 3 days and we were too late on the 4th or 5th day and were way down on the waiting list, which we stayed on for weeks without moving up, at which point my kids AND I made other personal plans. I do not know what the solution is in a region with so many active and talented teams while tournaments must have hard caps of some sort based upon variables like available rooms or staffers or both. And I would not want to try to be punitive when teams often do have legitimate reasons for dropping. So I think Jon's request is best---simply have the courtesy to drop sooner if you know you will---this will at least give hope to teams on the waiting list that they might actually get in so they will actually remain on the list. And I also support PREDICTABLE CONSEQUENCES view that in this area it is probably best to limit registrations to 2 teams per school at first so that registration is not simply a matter of luck that one was online when the tournament was posted.

If anyone has a better solution or solutions, I would love to hear it/them. In the meantime, we still have a 36 team field AND 3 teams on the waiting list in case some teams must drop before this Saturday. And I think all can agree that the field as it is remains quite a competitive one, so I trust that all who are coming are looking forward to a great day of quizbowl on a set that annually is considered one of the best housewrites in the country every year.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Al Hirt » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:34 pm

This is a continuous problem in the local circuit-teams sign up, realize there are major problems, and drop. Often times, it's not even the fault of the coaches/teams, but school administrations (speaking from experience). Not that this excuses irresponsible behavior, but it's something important to keep in mind.

Having said this, it's generally a good idea for teams to let TDs know if they're prepared to field extra teams last minute (we've done this for a couple tournaments since we almost always end up having subs). Not only do you help out the TD, there's a chance for you to get your players in for more experience. There's no need for Team USA's or anything of the sort.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by jonpin » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:37 pm

About two years ago, I advocated that we might be better served having some sets run on both sides of the Hudson, allowing for two ~24-team tournaments rather than a 36-team tournament that stretches resources thin and leaves some teams on a waitlist. I think that's only happened with A-sets to date, though.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Al Hirt » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:50 pm

jonpin wrote:About two years ago, I advocated that we might be better served having some sets run on both sides of the Hudson, allowing for two ~24-team tournaments rather than a 36-team tournament that stretches resources thin and leaves some teams on a waitlist. I think that's only happened with A-sets to date, though.
Sincerely because of the strength of the area, I don't mind the larger tournaments because they allow for greater, more balanced competition. Nationals qualification also comes into play here....the High Techs and St. Joe's and Hunters of the world will generally qualify at almost every tourney, essentially crowding out other good teams.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by ryanrosenberg » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:39 pm

Al Hirt wrote:
jonpin wrote:About two years ago, I advocated that we might be better served having some sets run on both sides of the Hudson, allowing for two ~24-team tournaments rather than a 36-team tournament that stretches resources thin and leaves some teams on a waitlist. I think that's only happened with A-sets to date, though.
Sincerely because of the strength of the area, I don't mind the larger tournaments because they allow for greater, more balanced competition. Nationals qualification also comes into play here....the High Techs and St. Joe's and Hunters of the world will generally qualify at almost every tourney, essentially crowding out other good teams.
I agreed with Jon's point then and still do. You could have two good sized tournaments just composed of Eastern teams (NY, Darien) and Western (NJ, PA, Charter). Certain tournaments could still be all-region, but there's no reason to strain the resources of every tournament host.

I'm a little confused at your point about nationals qualification, Shravan. A model with two 24-team tournaments run on the same set would qualify more teams than one 36-team tournament (three more for both NSC and HSNCT). The established top teams in the region would split up among the two sites, allowing others the opportunity to qualify in the 4-6 spots.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Lo, Marathon Ham! » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:55 pm

The Predictable Consequences wrote:
Al Hirt wrote:
jonpin wrote:About two years ago, I advocated that we might be better served having some sets run on both sides of the Hudson, allowing for two ~24-team tournaments rather than a 36-team tournament that stretches resources thin and leaves some teams on a waitlist. I think that's only happened with A-sets to date, though.
Sincerely because of the strength of the area, I don't mind the larger tournaments because they allow for greater, more balanced competition. Nationals qualification also comes into play here....the High Techs and St. Joe's and Hunters of the world will generally qualify at almost every tourney, essentially crowding out other good teams.
I agreed with Jon's point then and still do. You could have two good sized tournaments just composed of Eastern teams (NY, Darien) and Western (NJ, PA, Charter). Certain tournaments could still be all-region, but there's no reason to strain the resources of every tournament host.

I'm a little confused at your point about nationals qualification, Shravan. A model with two 24-team tournaments run on the same set would qualify more teams than one 36-team tournament (three more for both NSC and HSNCT). The established top teams in the region would split up among the two sites, allowing others the opportunity to qualify in the 4-6 spots.

I too agree with this format. In recent memory, it has become much harder for teams to qualify for nationals from this region leading to only the top tier of teams making it and the mid-level teams praying for successful wild card bids. I think splitting up a set over a region might make a tournament less competitive, but it would be healthier for the regional growth in the long run.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by High Dependency Unit » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:10 pm

MoeMoney wrote:
The Predictable Consequences wrote:
Al Hirt wrote:
jonpin wrote:About two years ago, I advocated that we might be better served having some sets run on both sides of the Hudson, allowing for two ~24-team tournaments rather than a 36-team tournament that stretches resources thin and leaves some teams on a waitlist. I think that's only happened with A-sets to date, though.
Sincerely because of the strength of the area, I don't mind the larger tournaments because they allow for greater, more balanced competition. Nationals qualification also comes into play here....the High Techs and St. Joe's and Hunters of the world will generally qualify at almost every tourney, essentially crowding out other good teams.
I agreed with Jon's point then and still do. You could have two good sized tournaments just composed of Eastern teams (NY, Darien) and Western (NJ, PA, Charter). Certain tournaments could still be all-region, but there's no reason to strain the resources of every tournament host.

I'm a little confused at your point about nationals qualification, Shravan. A model with two 24-team tournaments run on the same set would qualify more teams than one 36-team tournament (three more for both NSC and HSNCT). The established top teams in the region would split up among the two sites, allowing others the opportunity to qualify in the 4-6 spots.

I too agree with this format. In recent memory, it has become much harder for teams to qualify for nationals from this region leading to only the top tier of teams making it and the mid-level teams praying for successful wild card bids. I think splitting up a set over a region might make a tournament less competitive, but it would be healthier for the regional growth in the long run.
It would still make sense to have maybe 2-3 larger events throughout the year, such as LIFT (because it can handle like 48 teams) and Prison Bowl (because Hunter would never allow a mirror in New Jersey, as that keeps the region with some incredibly deep fields like the one at GSAC this weekend.

EDIT: One issue may be that there is a relatively small number of good tournaments run in New York.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Al Hirt » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:37 pm

The Predictable Consequences wrote:
Al Hirt wrote:
jonpin wrote:About two years ago, I advocated that we might be better served having some sets run on both sides of the Hudson, allowing for two ~24-team tournaments rather than a 36-team tournament that stretches resources thin and leaves some teams on a waitlist. I think that's only happened with A-sets to date, though.
Sincerely because of the strength of the area, I don't mind the larger tournaments because they allow for greater, more balanced competition. Nationals qualification also comes into play here....the High Techs and St. Joe's and Hunters of the world will generally qualify at almost every tourney, essentially crowding out other good teams.
I agreed with Jon's point then and still do. You could have two good sized tournaments just composed of Eastern teams (NY, Darien) and Western (NJ, PA, Charter). Certain tournaments could still be all-region, but there's no reason to strain the resources of every tournament host.

I'm a little confused at your point about nationals qualification, Shravan. A model with two 24-team tournaments run on the same set would qualify more teams than one 36-team tournament (three more for both NSC and HSNCT). The established top teams in the region would split up among the two sites, allowing others the opportunity to qualify in the 4-6 spots.
Some years, yes. Others, no.

For example, at Livingston last year, the balance was 5-3 NJ-NY of the top 8, but 11-5 out of the top 16. Run two 24 teams In a sense, in a year like 13-14, where NJ seemed to be fairly stronger than NY, it would hurt New Jersey teams, or vice versa when the situations are flipped.

In other words, I'll retract part of what I'm saying in that in years where both sides of the Hudson seem to be fielding equally talented teams, yes, that's a good solution. But this year, where 8 of the Morlan top 100 come from NJ and 3 from the NYC Metro Area (Bethlehem and Ithaca play in the metro area but seem to have more opportunities upstate thanks to people like Mr. Blish), it might not necessarily be the fairest plan.

This by no way is a knock at any team or any state. There is no universe where New Jersey is better than New York (except in The Sopranos).
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Mark Wolfsberg » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:24 pm

RexSueciae wrote:Given the way things seem to be going, you could probably enter a team on the waitlist right now and still get in. :razz:
In our case we've made another commitment which we intend to honor.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:39 am

Three more teams have dropped, so the 3rd teams from Mountain Lakes, High Tech and Hunter have all been removed from the waiting list and are now in the field. I will contact each school ASAP to make sure all of these schools can commit to bringing a 3rd team at this late date. Thus, we now have one new and very lonely team on the waiting list: Lehigh Valley Academy.

EDIT: I have just learned that PACE has awarded PLATINUM status to St. Joe's GSAC. This means that the top 25% of finishers in its field, rounded up to the nearest integer, will qualify for PACE's Scholastic National Championship Tournament at the end of the year AND qualifiers can register for the SNC immediately.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:26 am

Lehigh Valley Academy is now the 36th member of the field and the waiting list is now officially empty.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:51 pm

This tournament was a great success and we finished 10 Rounds before 5PM. Then in the Super Playoff Cross Bracket Matches, undefeated Wilmington Charter A defeated formerly undefeated High Technology A on the last toss-up and bonus cycle, 315-300. And below is the remaining order of finish:

3rd: State College A
4th Deep Green A
5th West Egg
6th Livingston A
7th High Technology B
8th Ithaca A
9th Hunter A
10th Emmaus
11th Ridgewood
12th Millburn A

The top 9 teams above have qualified for PACE's National Scholastic Tournament and may register for it immediately.

Meanwhile, stats for all 36 teams should be up within the next 24-48 hours.
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by jonpin » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:07 pm

This was a quite well-run tournament with a killer field.

I have a couple comments and notes I made on the questions. Could someone from Maggie Walker let us know if there's going to be a discussion forum opened, and if not where we can send comments?
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Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by GSAC XXII » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:04 pm

I've sent a request for a discussion forum and I'll let you know as soon as it's opened. Thank you for your comments, and thanks for playing our packet. We hope you enjoyed it, and we're looking forward to hearing your suggestions.
Connor Wood
Maggie L. Walker Governor's School, Class of 2015
Director of GSAC XXII

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by Edward Powers » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:21 am

Combined statistics have now been posted here: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... standings/
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

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GSAC XXII
Lulu
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:06 pm

Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by GSAC XXII » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:35 pm

The private discussion board is up.
Connor Wood
Maggie L. Walker Governor's School, Class of 2015
Director of GSAC XXII

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gettysburg11
Wakka
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:09 pm

Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by gettysburg11 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:45 pm

GSAC XXII wrote:The private discussion board is up.
This is probably a stupid question, but how does one request access to this board?
Ryan Bilger
Emmaus '15, Gettysburg '19, West Virginia '21

"I never saved anything for the swim back." - Vincent Freeman, Gattaca

RexSueciae
Rikku
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:24 am

Re: St. Joe's 5th Annual GSAC, December 20, 2014

Post by RexSueciae » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:50 pm

gettysburg11 wrote:
GSAC XXII wrote:The private discussion board is up.
This is probably a stupid question, but how does one request access to this board?
Click on "User Control Panel," then go to Usergroups, and apply to join. Once you're accepted, you'll be able to access the GSAC discussion subforum, which should be located here.
Vasa Clarke

Maggie Walker '14
Virginia '18
William and Mary '21

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