NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

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NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Great Bustard » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:49 pm

The National History Bee and Bowl and the US Geography Olympiad in partnership with our sponsors at Houghton Mifflin Harcourt are pleased to announce the prizes (not including trophies, plaques, and the like) which will be on offer at our fifth annual high school National Championships from April 24-26, 2015 in Arlington, VA and Washington, DC. Further posts will be forthcoming shortly regarding the prizing at our US Middle and Elementary School, Canadian, Asian, and European Championships.
However, at all championships this year, the prizing will work significantly differently than in past years. In past years, the prizing was done in cash payouts; this year, at our high school National Championships, with the exception of the US Geography Olympiad (see below for details), prizing will take the form of partial or full scholarships to attend the inaugural 2015 International History Olympiad from July 9-15 in Williamsburg, VA. We are aware that the Olympiad is both an amazing opportunity for students to compete against the best students in the world, and that it is not cheap. The discounts offered below are our way of encouraging the best history students in the USA to attend.
The amounts below correspond to what each finisher receives in scholarships towards the Olympiad. Please note the following:

1. All credit must be used towards the 2015 Olympiad. The only exception to this is for students who are champions and win full admission. If a student wins two such prizes, one may be transferred to the 2016 Olympiad. If a student wins three or more such prizes, they may be transferred to subsequent Olympiads provided the student is still eligible to attend them.
2. If a student wins full admission, they may not use subsequent credit to “upgrade” to single occupancy (they are welcome to pay for it, though).
3. “Team member” is interpreted to mean students whose names are submitted on the final roster form for that team at the National Championships. However, if a team has over four students, the total credit given will be the price of for four students for admission with double occupancy and air conditioning, and then the team members and their coach can determine how this is split.
To clarify this: the amounts listed for each team are the maximum discount per student (i.e. a student cannot have more than that). However, if a team has over four students on it, then they can either send four students, each with the listed scholarship amount, or, they could split it further. So, for example, if a team of five finished third in its evening group, they could send five students all discounted at $160, send three students discounted at $200 and two discounted at $100, etc.
Note, though, that if one student on a team of five finished, say, third in the Varsity Bee, then that student could claim a $500 discount, and the other four students on the team could still claim a $200 discount (since it would be within the right of the team to deny the Bee 3rd place finisher a share of the $800 even if that player was the backbone of the team).
4. If students do not attend the 2015 Olympiad, the credit cannot be transferred to any other event, unless someone wins multiple events (though in this case, they would lose the first free berth).
5. No prizes include travel expenses to the Olympiad or participation in the post-Olympiad tour.
6. Students will not receive actual prize money, but instead would simply need to submit less in the way of payment.
7. Prizes are not cumulative (with the exception of the National Champions). Students are entitled to a discount corresponding to the highest amount obtained in any one competition at Nationals. This also holds for middle school students competing at high school Nationals.
8. The price of admission does include all meals from dinner on July 9 through July 15.
9. Credit is only valid for participating students, not for coaches, parents, or non-champion students from the school the winning teams attend.

National History Bowl High School National Championships (4/25-26 in DC and Arlington)
Varsity
Champion - Full Admission per team member (double occupancy w/air conditioning)
Runner Up - $600 credit per team member
Semifinalist (x2) - $500 credit per team member
Quarterfinalist (x4) - $400 credit per team member
2nd place in evening group (x8) - $300 credit per team member
3rd place in evening group (x8) - $200 credit per team member
4th place in evening group (x8) - $100 credit per team member
Small School Champion - $500 credit per team member
Small School Second Place – $300 credit per team member
Small School Third Place – $200 credit per team member
Small School Fourth Place - $100 credit per team member
Top Solo Team (provided at least 2 are in the draw) - $200 credit per team member
2nd Place Solo Team (provided at least 4 are in the draw) - $100 credit per team member
Consolation group winners - $100 credit per team member

Note: All Consolation group winning team members are entitled to participate at the Olympiad if they have not yet otherwise qualified.

Junior Varsity
Champion - Full Admission per team member (double occupancy w/air conditioning)
Runner Up - $500 credit per team member
Semifinalist (x2) - $400 credit per team member
Quarterfinalist (x4) - $300 credit per team member
Octofinalist (x8) - $200 credit per team member
Round of 32 (x16) - $100 credit per team member
Small School Champion - $500 credit per team member
Small School Second Place – $300 credit per team member
Small School Third Place – $200 credit per team member
Small School Fourth Place - $100 credit per team member
Top Solo Team (provided at least 2 are in the draw) - $200 credit per team member
2nd Place Solo Team (provided at least 4 are in the draw) - $100 credit per team member
Top Middle School Team Team (provided at least 2 are in the draw) - $200 credit per team member
2nd Place Middle School Team (provided at least 4 are in the draw) - $100 credit per team member
Consolation group winners - $100 credit per team member

Note: All Consolation group winning team members are entitled to participate at the Olympiad if they have not yet otherwise qualified.

National History Bee High School National Championships (4/26 in Arlington)

Varsity
Champion - Full Admission (double occupancy w/air conditioning)
Runner Up - $600 credit
3rd Place - $500 credit
4th Place - $400 credit
Semifinalist (x 8) - $300 credit
Quarterfinalist (x20) - $200 credit
Consolation Bee - $200 credit for champion, $100 credit for second place

Junior Varsity
Champion - Full Admission (double occupancy w/air conditioning)
Runner Up - $500 credit
Semifinalist (x 6) - $300 credit
Quarterfinalist (x 24) - $200 credit
Consolation Bee - $200 credit for champion, $100 credit for second place

Note: All Consolation Bee Champions and Runners Up are entitled to participate at the Olympiad if they have not yet otherwise qualified.

United States History Bee High School National Championships (4/24 in Arlington)
Varsity
Champion - Full Admission (double occupancy w/air conditioning)
Runner Up - $300 credit
Semifinalist (x6) - $200 credit
Quarterfinalist (x16) - $100 credit

Junior Varsity
Champion - Full Admission (double occupancy w/air conditioning)
Second Place - $300 credit
Finalist (x6) - $200 credit
Semifinalist (x16) - $100 credit

Note: All USHB Varsity Quarterfinalists and above and USHB JV Semifinalists and above are entitled to participate at the Olympiad if they have not yet otherwise qualified.

United States Geography Olympiad National Championships (4/24 in Arlington)

For Junior Varsity students: For the Exam Champions, $200 each. For the Quiz Bowl Champion $200. For the Overall Champion, $300.

For Varsity students: $500 in credit to be used to defray costs of expenses of participation on Team USA at the 2015 Intl. Geography Olympiad in Tver, Russia.
This is extended first to the following students:
-Quiz Bowl Tournament Champion
-Exam A Champion
-Exam B Champion
-Overall Champion

See http://www.geographyolympiad.com/nationals/ for further details including what happens in the event the same student wins multiple competitions

Note: The US Geography Olympiad reserves the right to convert the $1000 in credit towards attending the Olympiad to $500 in cash, if, at any time prior to the competition, the USGO Staff, in consultation with our legal team and the US State Department deems visiting Russia to be too great a security risk this summer. There will not be an orientation camp this year, as in past years, due to concerns about independent travel in Russia outside the confines of the Olympiad.
Last edited by Great Bustard on Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
David Madden
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by High Dependency Unit » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:48 pm

Great Bustard wrote:Students are entitled to a discount corresponding to the highest amount obtained in any one competition at Nationals.
Does this mean that if a student placed in both the bowl and the bee, they would only receive one discount - discounts would not be cumulative through different competitions? For example, if a student placed 4th in varsity bee ($400) and was on a quarterfinalist team in varsity bowl ($400), they would receive only $400 in total credit towards the olympiad?
Michael Borecki
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Darien (co-captain) '17,
Bowdoin College (club president) '21
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Great Bustard » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:49 pm

Mucho Macho Man wrote:
Great Bustard wrote:Students are entitled to a discount corresponding to the highest amount obtained in any one competition at Nationals.
Does this mean that if a student placed in both the bowl and the bee, they would only receive one discount - discounts would not be cumulative through different competitions? For example, if a student placed 4th in varsity bee ($400) and was on a quarterfinalist team in varsity bowl ($400), they would receive only $400 in total credit towards the olympiad?
Your interpretation is correct. We thought of the other approach, but then quickly realized that there could be dozens of students in that case then attending the Olympiad at rates which would be a net loss for us if they attend, which isn't exactly our intent either. We're not looking to make a fortune out of running this, but we need it to be worthwhile from a financial standpoint. The exception is made for National Champions regarding subsequent years, since that's a rather special distinction.
David Madden
Ridgewood (NJ) '99, Princeton '03
Founder and Director: International History Bee and Bowl, National History Bee and Bowl (High School Division), International History Olympiad, United States Geography Olympiad, US History Bee, US Academic Bee and Bowl, National Humanities Bee, National Science Bee, International Academic Bowl.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Milhouse » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:22 pm

Will the credit be transferable between students? That is, if a team of four got third in its evening group, could all the credit be used to decrease a single student's cost by $800?
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Great Bustard » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:02 am

Jonathan Franzen wrote:Will the credit be transferable between students? That is, if a team of four got third in its evening group, could all the credit be used to decrease a single student's cost by $800?
No, the amounts listed for each team are the maximum discount per student (i.e. a student cannot have more than that). However, if a team has over four students on it, then they can either send four students, each with the listed scholarship amount, or, they could split it further. So, for example, if a team of five finished third in its evening group, they could send five students all discounted at $160, send three students discounted at $200 and two discounted at $100, etc.
Note, though, that if one student on a team of five finished, say, third in the Varsity Bee, then that student could claim a $500 discount, and the other four students on the team could still claim a $200 discount (since it would be within the right of the team to deny the Bee 3rd place finisher a share of the $800 even if that player was the backbone of the team).
Thanks for bringing this point to our attention; I’ve clarified this in the terms and conditions listed above.
David Madden
Ridgewood (NJ) '99, Princeton '03
Founder and Director: International History Bee and Bowl, National History Bee and Bowl (High School Division), International History Olympiad, United States Geography Olympiad, US History Bee, US Academic Bee and Bowl, National Humanities Bee, National Science Bee, International Academic Bowl.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by High Dependency Unit » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:55 am

I love that you're trying to encourage more students to attend the Olympiad (which I do believe would be an amazing experience), but I really don't think this system is fair for the prize winners, nor do I believe that, for the most part, these prizes really make a difference.

In previous years, winners would receive a cash prize, as we all know, and although they were not significant for the most part, cash is always useful and flexible - anyone can use a prize of $$$. However, with the exception of the full "scholarship" for the winners in the bowl and bee, you are not "winning" anything. If you do not want to attend the olympiad, you get nothing, and if you cannot attend because you have other things planned, once again, you get nothing (note that neither of those current applies to me - I want to attend and I am not already busy this summer). The latter is important because many high schoolers do stuff during the summer, and may have already registered for another program. It's also unfair to say to the JV bee runner-up, for instance (just picking a good finish with a substantial discount) that they need to pay (at least) $600 in order to get any physical value out of their performance at nationals. Sure, last year that person would have won only $200, but that's actually a prize won for doing well - one does not "win" a trip to the olympiad that "only" costs (at least) $600.

Additionally, the "prizes" often will not make a huge difference for a student. The minimum cost of the event is $1095 before we even begin to count transportation, which is often very expensive. According to Kayak, airfare from (for example) DFW to Richmond would be $300, and from LAX to Richmond, it would be $550, and flying into Newport News is the same cost (from LAX) or even more expensive (from DFW). o although a (say) $400 discount will cover about a third of the costs for a student basically anywhere between metro-NYC and Atlanta, the cost for a student from Texas is still about $1000, and $1200 from SoCal. So although a price tag of $1500 or so when counting transportation is prohibitive, a $1000+ price tag is not much different. This is less of an issue this year, as there are a significant number of players within a reasonable distance of Williamsburg, but obviously becomes a factor when (I believe I heard this is happening) the tournament moves to California or Hawaii, and then to Asia, and the costs to attend rise substantially for the vast majority of potential players. Thus, unless NHBB substantially increases these discounts year after year, the discounts are going to become almost a non-factor in determining whether an individual does or does not attend the olympiad.

(On a quick personal note, I will not be attending the olympiad due to the costs of attending the competition, the exception being if I win either the bee or the bowl (I am already paying out of pocket (my money, not my parents') for NHBB nats). Obviously different people have different financial constraints, but the cost attending both nationals and the olympiad is awfully large, and that makes the relative price of attending the olympiad even greater.)

Obviously NHBB needs to make a profit (just curious, at what level of discount is NHBB not making a profit off of a student attending the olympiad?) while encouraging students to attend the olympiad. However, this is not best for the students. I don't know if the old model was either (most of the cash prizes were low), but making someone spend up to $2000 on NHBB for the year in order for them to obtain any sort of prize isn't right, and I'd be surprised to hear a significant number of people say that the discounts make a substantial difference in their willingness and/or ability to attend the Olympiad. The old model was at least fair.

I like the idea of a "cash option" as an alternative prize, but I'm afraid that that would be incredibly skimpy given that NHBB is giving approximate $13000 away to the winners. I understand that NHBB is obviously not going to be able to change the current prize structure before nationals this year (I do think it might be good to see how well this works), particularly in light of recent events, but I believe there should be a better way to give away prizes and encourage students to attend the Olympiad, one that is beneficial to both NHBB and all (not just the event winners) involved.
Last edited by High Dependency Unit on Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Knickerbocker glory » Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:46 am

I second Michael's post and would like to say that going to NHBB Nationals for us is incredibly expensive, with a total cost of well over a thousand dollars, which we have to pay out of our own pockets. Now while I don't compete to win the prize money, it does help in offsetting some of that cost for me--and many others, I'm sure.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by High Dependency Unit » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:39 am

GOODCOMPANY88 wrote:Now while I don't compete to win the prize money, it does help in offsetting some of that cost for me--and many others, I'm sure.
Yes - although prize money is great in offsetting some costs, people attend nationals because they really want to attend nationals (and can afford to), and the same applies to the olympiad. So, although the discounts for the olympiad make it slightly more affordable, you're not going to see more people going solely because they have a $300 discount. It's a nice bonus for people who plan on attending the olympiad, but, once again, it does nothing for those who just plan on attending nationals, and for the most part won't incentivize them to attend the Olympiad.
Michael Borecki
Middlesex Middle '13,
Darien (co-captain) '17,
Bowdoin College (club president) '21
NHBB Regional Coordinator
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by johntait1 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:05 pm

I agree with what Michael and Bruce posted. While it certainly helps people who plan on attending History Olympiad, the problem is that the incentive may not be large enough to convince people who were not attending the Olympiad to attend. Also, like Bruce said, attending Nationals is incredibly expensive and while no one goes for the prize money, the prize money is certainly useful financially. If I had to propose an idea, it would be something like the winner can choose the full amount for Olympiad credit or half of that amount as a cash prize. That way, it'd still be a really big incentive to attend the Olympiad, but those who have financial difficulty and are unable to attend the Olympiad get some financial help.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Vainamoinen » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:19 am

The assumption that just because one participates in the national history bowl they must have interest in the international history olympiad is ridiculous. Consider a scenario like this: some team begs their school for the money to go to NHBB, and through hard work by their coach, is able to come up with the cash necessary. Imagine they manage to be a quarterfinalist in the varsity bow, e.g. my team last year. As a team we won a nice $250 for that, split 4 ways, that's $62.50 in cash. Not a lot, but it felt nice. But now your reward for being a quarterfinalist is... a 33% off coupon to another tournament you may or may not even be able to attend, or even want to attend, or better yet, even be able to afford to attend! Because whereas for the national history bowl, the school was willing to pay, now YOU have to pay to go. For a lot of people I know, this is not an option. For those people, myself would be included, all this new system is doing is taking away any financial reward at all. The above proposed idea of paying out some fraction of the discount to the winners would be a very good one. I understand nhbb is a business, but the clearly self-beneficial nature of this change is a bit far, especially when it's played off as "We are aware that the Olympiad is both an amazing opportunity for students to compete against the best students in the world, and that it is not cheap." I would assume this change is more beneficial to nhbb than to the majority of its nationals participants. This is basically being rewarded with a coupon, and coupons are intended to benefit the business, not the consumer.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Great Bustard » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:06 am

So, some explanations here for our thinking behind having the prize money at Nationals this year take the form of scholarships for the Olympiad. First, I'll note that last year, NHBB received $25,000 from our sponsors for prizing for our National Championships - $12,000 of this was from Houghton Mifflin Harcourt and $13,000 of this was from the History Channel. A small portion (about 20%) of this amount went towards prizing at our Middle School National Championships. This amount was further topped up by a significant amount of money (I don't know the exact amount, but somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000) that Eric Huff and Nick Clusserath personally spent to top up the prizing for the National History Bee (Elementary and Middle School), National History Bowl Middle School Division, and the US History Bee - all of which they had direct oversight for, and were running on a franchise basis last year. This may sound irrelevant to the discussion, but the point here, is that the total amount of prizing last year across all our competitions was very high. This year, there's no franchise arrangement in place, and the History Channel also finally (after repeated requests for information - hence the somewhat late nature of this announcement in the season) let me know last week that they are not in a financial position this year to renew their funding. They did add that this was more a reflection on their current state of affairs rather than a lack of interest, and that they hope to offer prize money in subsequent years.

All of that accounts for a large reason for why we would not have been able to offer anywhere near the amount of prizing at Nationals this year as last year, at least on a cash basis. That said, I am not so naive or self-delusional to think that everyone who would receive an Olympiad discount would be interested in redeeming it, and I fully recognize as well that nothing beats cash for utility. However, I think that people need to keep a few other points in mind here which haven't been raised yet.

First, NHBB has been actively working to find a corporate underwriter who could provide funding (including prizing) on a vastly increased basis. This process is ongoing, painstaking, and for obvious reasons needs to remain almost entirely confidential. It bears noting though, that in the midst of everything else we're doing, this has taken up a good chunk of our time this year, and we remain optimistic that at some point in the not too distant future we may have an announcement to make here.

Secondly, not to belabor this point, but NHBB prizing (including this year's Olympiad prizing) is far more generous than the prizing on offer at any other National Championships that falls within the general heading of tournaments following good quizbowl principles. We have always prided ourselves on this, and while we understand that some students may be disappointed, we hope that people recognize that we are still committed to providing generous prizes. I am not ruling out a return to cash prizes at some future point, perhaps as early as next year especially if a sponsorship deal is concluded, but for now, the current prizing is what we are able to offer. Will, to cite your particular example, there's no way that if we stuck with the cash model, that we would be able to offer teams that finished in quarterfinal position any cash this year - this way, anyone who makes the playoffs has something to show for it.

Thirdly, consider also that while I have no idea how many students are going to take us up on the Olympiad funding, there's a good chance that the total amount of Olympiad registration fees (don't forget that these include room and board) saved will in fact be higher than the roughly $35,000 awarded across all IHBB/NHBB/USGO events last year (this figure includes the amount that Eric and Nick kicked in). Consider that if the winners alone for the Olympiad take us up on the offer, then at a minimum, we're looking at about $15,000 alone in entry fees for the Varsity, JV, and Middle School Bowl (this will also be on offer there), teams, assuming four students to a team. Then add in the Bee winners, the fact that we will also extend discounts at our Canadian, European, and Asian championships, and I would surmise that the total amount of discounts redeemed is indeed very likely to exceed this.

Fourthly, while I do not wish to divulge too much in the way of our margins for obvious reasons, extending free entry at the Olympaid (which includes room and board which we are then covering out of pocket) is indeed a financial hit for us, and we are almost certain to cover quite a bit of that out of our own resources, beyond the $12,000 HMH provides. We're doing this to help ensure a critical mass of students at the Olympiad (our target is about 100-150, though we can run with anything from 30-500) to make it a success for those who go, and to ensure that we can continue to make the Olympiad viable. Note that our Olympiad, while it may be expensive, is also the only Olympiad of any sort out there that has any quizbowl component, not to mention good quizbowl, not to mention that quizbowl is at the center of the Olympiad. And also, that the qualification rules are very accessible, which means that actually attending the International History Olympiad is a realistic proposition for orders of magnitude more students than any other Olympiad. Likewise, extending qualification for two years (giving ample time to fundraise) is another way to help make this work. I'll add to that, that I have no illusion that students who compete every year at Nationals will be able to attend the Olympiad each year (especially when it's held outside the USA). But it's well within the reach of many students (hint: write one tossup a day for a year, get paid about $3.50 for it, and you'll have covered your Olympiad registration fees- if you've been following other developments, you'll know that we'll soon be looking for a lot of writing help, and yes, high schoolers can write for NHBB) especially if it's in the $600-$1000 range through the help of a discount. Even without any discount, it still is cheaper on a day to day basis than numerous sports camps or general sleepaway camps, and provides an opportunity to compete and win international titles that no other competition in the world of quizbowl (and very few summer activities of any sort) can remotely approximate.

That's a general guide to our thinking. If I had to estimate, I would expect that due to all the discounts provided, not only at the US High school level, but at the middle school level and internationally, about 50-75 more students may end up coming to the Olympiad than who might not otherwise. That could easily make the difference between an okay event, and a spectacular event, and I think it's a valid goal to support this year. Lastly, on a related but slightly different topic, we have been receiving lots of interest in the Olympiad overseas during our time in Asia running IHBB events. There are already about 10 students from Hong Kong alone signed up, at least 3 (but almost certainly more) outstanding players from Singapore who are coming (NPS International is the equal of almost any US middle school history bowl team), and probably about a half dozen or so from Japan will come, to speak only of 3 places. At the same time, I have very little idea as to our final number because people always sign up for our events at the last minute (we have about 50 teams registered for Nationals and will almost certainly have about 220-250 even though registration closes in four weeks) and the Olympiad is no different. Sorry for the somewhat rambling post, but I think this all covers a lot of ground worth mentioning. If comments in this thread go more in an Olympiad direction, a thread split might be a good idea.
David Madden
Ridgewood (NJ) '99, Princeton '03
Founder and Director: International History Bee and Bowl, National History Bee and Bowl (High School Division), International History Olympiad, United States Geography Olympiad, US History Bee, US Academic Bee and Bowl, National Humanities Bee, National Science Bee, International Academic Bowl.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:48 pm

I appreciate the explanation here. From my perspective, having "grown up" in an era where there were never any prizes for playing good questions ever, beyond eternal glory, any prize at all for a well-produced question-and-answer tournament seems like a bucket of gravy on top of what's already a good thing. If cash just isn't possible this year, then that's just the way it has to be, and it's more of a return to status quo than a massive deprivation. (At least in my book. I am not able to participate or speak from the perspective of a participant, and it seems like their right to consider this a deprivation is entirely legitimate.)

It's probably too late to make adjustments for this year, but perhaps if cash payouts aren't an option in some future competition year and a winning team can't/won't attend IHO, the credit could be transferred to discounts of equivalent value on next year's NHBB events? I would be very surprised if teams attending NHBB Nationals wouldn't appreciate or make use of a discount on the next year of NHBB competition in their area and/or nationally.
Matt J.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Large Adult Song » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:21 pm

Matthew Jackson wrote: If cash just isn't possible this year, then that's just the way it has to be, and it's more of a return to status quo than a massive deprivation.
...
the credit could be transferred to discounts of equivalent value on next year's NHBB events? I would be very surprised if teams attending NHBB Nationals wouldn't appreciate or make use of a discount on the next year of NHBB competition in their area and/or nationally.
I totally agree with this; only a few tournaments give out any monetary prizes at all, so any sort of prize that NHBB gives out is better than nothing.

However, I am in support of transferring credit to future non-Olympiad events; this would be more practical for the competitors, and would cost less for NHBB, wouldn't it?

Looking at the Bee again, the 1st-4th place finishers in Varsity receive IHO credit for full admission, $600, $500, and $400, respectively. Why not give them, say, full bee admission for the following season? Regional Bee costs $15, and there are only three sets anyways, so NHBB would be giving out prizes totaling in the hundreds instead of thousands for the top finishers. The same goes for the Bowl- instead of giving $600 credit to each team member on the runner-up team, give them full credit for a tournament or two the following season, which would be $225 or under for the entire team.

This way, the prizes would actually help out competitors and teams who cannot afford the Olympiad anyways, while they would also result in NHBB giving out credit with less monetary value than they would've had the credit gone to the Olympiad.
David Song

Ben Franklin MS 2011-13
Ridgewood HS 2011-13
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Maury Island incident » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:22 pm

Matthew Jackson wrote:I appreciate the explanation here. From my perspective, having "grown up" in an era where there were never any prizes for playing good questions ever, beyond eternal glory, any prize at all for a well-produced question-and-answer tournament seems like a bucket of gravy on top of what's already a good thing. If cash just isn't possible this year, then that's just the way it has to be, and it's more of a return to status quo than a massive deprivation. (At least in my book. I am not able to participate or speak from the perspective of a participant, and it seems like their right to consider this a deprivation is entirely legitimate.)

It's probably too late to make adjustments for this year, but perhaps if cash payouts aren't an option in some future competition year and a winning team can't/won't attend IHO, the credit could be transferred to discounts of equivalent value on next year's NHBB events? I would be very surprised if teams attending NHBB Nationals wouldn't appreciate or make use of a discount on the next year of NHBB competition in their area and/or nationally.
I do like the idea of discounts on future NHBB events. Since it seems like straight cash isn't possible, maybe winners could choose whether their discounts go toward IHO or NHBB Nationals next year.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Great Bustard » Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:18 pm

I understand why people like the idea of free admission at regionals, but this isn't happening. That is the bread and butter of how 7 people will make a living next year, plus the fact that again, for the reasons I mentioned above, there's a need to support the launch of the Olympiad this year. It's far more likely that at some level cash prizes will return as well for 2016 (trust me, I'm working on this) than we would ever look to Nationals as a way to give free admission at regionals events.
On the other hand, NHBB is committed to supporting the cash prizes given out at the National Quizbowl Awards (at least at the level of last year's prizes), along with the payment to cover the NASAT awards banquet again this year. That's way far down the priority list at this point, but we will do that for sure.
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Founder and Director: International History Bee and Bowl, National History Bee and Bowl (High School Division), International History Olympiad, United States Geography Olympiad, US History Bee, US Academic Bee and Bowl, National Humanities Bee, National Science Bee, International Academic Bowl.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Halved Xenon Stinging » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:13 pm

You could also consider just making the prize a free regional bee registration only given to the top 10 individuals or so and keep the olympiad discount for the lesser prizes. This way it's nowhere near as much a financial problem as bowl registration, and assuming 20 total students (from both the Varsity and JV divisions) win a free registration (that's $300), you would only lose slightly more than $40 per person, which i believe will be completely covered by the increased number of teams that will be participating at regionals next year. $15 isn't a lot for prize money, but I think it's certainly more of an incentive than a partial discount at an event that not everybody would be interested in attending.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by High Dependency Unit » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:23 pm

I don't get why everyone adores free admission at regionals for a prize, particularly if it's solely for the bee. Regionals is a fraction of the cost of nationals. I'm glad that NHBB is committed to trying to offer cash prizes in 2016 and beyond, and I appreciate the explanation.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Halved Xenon Stinging » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:26 pm

Mucho Macho Man wrote:I don't get why everyone adores free admission at regionals for a prize, particularly if it's solely for the bee. Regionals is a fraction of the cost of nationals. I'm glad that NHBB is committed to trying to offer cash prizes in 2016 and beyond, and I appreciate the explanation.
While obviously cash prizes are ideal, regionals admission for either the bee or bowl is infinitely more useful for those of us who don't plan on spending our summers at the history olympiad.
Devin Shang
Lexington High School Co-Captain '16
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by anthonywang1999 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:03 pm

Hey Everyone! I was wondering how a school qualifies as "small" school. I am part of a JV team from Middlesex County Academy (NJ) (school has about 160 students total, about 40 students per grade). We will most likely be participating at Nationals (this is our first year). Will our teams be able to be considered as that of a "small school"? Thank you very much for taking the time to read this. :grin:
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by johntait1 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:57 pm

anthonywang1999 wrote:Hey Everyone! I was wondering how a school qualifies as "small" school. I am part of a JV team from Middlesex County Academy (NJ) (school has about 160 students total, about 40 students per grade). We will most likely be participating at Nationals (this is our first year). Will our teams be able to be considered as that of a "small school"? Thank you very much for taking the time to read this. :grin:
According to the official History Bowl page
Small Schools
We will once again award a small school Varsity and small school JV National Champion this year. Small schools however will not be in a separate draw. If one small school (defined as a non-magnet, non-selective public school with 1000 or fewer students in 9-12 or 800 in 10-12) reaches a level of the competition farther than any other (e.g. only one small school is found among the 32 Varsity playoff teams or if only one small school reaches the final) then that school will be the automatic small school champion. If no small school teams make the playoffs, then we will take the top two based on afternoon record, then points, then overall record, then overall points and they will play a separate match for the title. If the top two small schools each finish at the same playoff round, then they will compete in a separate match for the title. If more than two small school teams finish at the same level (say 3 teams make the round of 32, but none make the round of 16), then the two teams with the highest point total solely in the most recent round played will play a match for the title. If one finishes at a higher level than any other, but two (or more) finish at the next level down, then the top two of these based on points in most recent round played will automatically finish in 2nd place.
your school should qualify as a small school. Of course you should get confirmation from Mr. Madden, but I just posted what I found.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by jonpin » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:00 pm

johntait1 wrote:
anthonywang1999 wrote:Hey Everyone! I was wondering how a school qualifies as "small" school. I am part of a JV team from Middlesex County Academy (NJ) (school has about 160 students total, about 40 students per grade). We will most likely be participating at Nationals (this is our first year). Will our teams be able to be considered as that of a "small school"? Thank you very much for taking the time to read this. :grin:
According to the official History Bowl page
Small Schools
We will once again award a small school Varsity and small school JV National Champion this year. Small schools however will not be in a separate draw. If one small school (defined as a non-magnet, non-selective public school with 1000 or fewer students in 9-12 or 800 in 10-12) reaches a level of the competition farther than any other (e.g. only one small school is found among the 32 Varsity playoff teams or if only one small school reaches the final) then that school will be the automatic small school champion. If no small school teams make the playoffs, then we will take the top two based on afternoon record, then points, then overall record, then overall points and they will play a separate match for the title. If the top two small schools each finish at the same playoff round, then they will compete in a separate match for the title. If more than two small school teams finish at the same level (say 3 teams make the round of 32, but none make the round of 16), then the two teams with the highest point total solely in the most recent round played will play a match for the title. If one finishes at a higher level than any other, but two (or more) finish at the next level down, then the top two of these based on points in most recent round played will automatically finish in 2nd place.
your school should qualify as a small school. Of course you should get confirmation from Mr. Madden, but I just posted what I found.
To the contrary, if Middlesex County Academy is a magnet school as Wikipedia claims it is, then it is not a small school under the rules of any QB national championship.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Important Bird Area » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:05 pm

For the record, NAQT does not consider Middlesex County Academy a small school.
MCA admissions policy wrote:All students who apply participate in a selective admissions process. The process considers middle school grades, standardized test scores and a MCASMET developed assessment in language arts and mathematics.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by johntait1 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:18 pm

My bad I didn't realize it was a magnet school since I didn't see it in the post. Probably should have checked that.
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by anthonywang1999 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:36 pm

Thanks a lot for the information! :smile:
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Antrobus63 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:02 am

Just curious: any prizes for the Sports and Entertainment event?
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Re: NHBB/USGO 2015 High School Nationals Prizes

Post by Great Bustard » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:47 am

Antrobus63 wrote:Just curious: any prizes for the Sports and Entertainment event?
Yes, there will be some prizes here (maybe a small cash amount and/or in kind prizes). But something for sure (and the usual medals).
David Madden
Ridgewood (NJ) '99, Princeton '03
Founder and Director: International History Bee and Bowl, National History Bee and Bowl (High School Division), International History Olympiad, United States Geography Olympiad, US History Bee, US Academic Bee and Bowl, National Humanities Bee, National Science Bee, International Academic Bowl.
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