2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

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2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:36 pm

These sets are now clear for discussion:

IS #137A
138
139A
140
141A
142
143A
144
145A
146
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Halved Xenon Stinging » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:40 pm

Was IS-146 supposed to be harder than regular difficulty? Caspar David Friedrich and Masaccio are pretty damn hard for an IS set
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:15 pm

All five of the IS sets are intended to be regular difficulty. That being said, it is normal for the last sets of the spring to contain a few more difficult answers (as we try to avoid repeats within the year's sets).
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by 1992 in spaceflight » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:15 am

In 141-A (the A set that was used for Orchard Farm's January tournament), there was a tossup on "Kamikaze" that one of our players said "Divine Wind" for, but it wasn't accepted or even prompted. Was there an instruction not to prompt on "Divine wind?"
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by acrosby1861 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:13 pm

Halved Xenon Stinging wrote:Was IS-146 supposed to be harder than regular difficulty? Caspar David Friedrich and Masaccio are pretty damn hard for an IS set
The science parts and some of the history for IS-146 seemed hard. But other than that, I didn't find IS-146 that hard.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:32 pm

The Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi wrote:In 141-A (the A set that was used for Orchard Farm's January tournament), there was a tossup on "Kamikaze" that one of our players said "Divine Wind" for, but it wasn't accepted or even prompted. Was there an instruction not to prompt on "Divine wind?"
IS #141A round 9 wrote:This word identified storms that, in 1274 and 1281, destroyed Mongol fleets sent to invade a neighboring country by Kublai Khan. (*) "Divine wind" is the literal meaning of--for 10 points--what Japanese word later used to identify suicide attacks by pilots during World War II?

answer: _kamikaze_
We have not, historically, prompted on "divine wind" for "kamikaze."
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by 1992 in spaceflight » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:08 pm

bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
The Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi wrote:In 141-A (the A set that was used for Orchard Farm's January tournament), there was a tossup on "Kamikaze" that one of our players said "Divine Wind" for, but it wasn't accepted or even prompted. Was there an instruction not to prompt on "Divine wind?"
IS #141A round 9 wrote:This word identified storms that, in 1274 and 1281, destroyed Mongol fleets sent to invade a neighboring country by Kublai Khan. (*) "Divine wind" is the literal meaning of--for 10 points--what Japanese word later used to identify suicide attacks by pilots during World War II?

answer: _kamikaze_
We have not, historically, prompted on "divine wind" for "kamikaze."
Ok....That just seems silly. Considering it's mentioned in the questions that it's a literal translation, I feel like (at least) a prompt on "divine wind" is more than warranted.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Cody » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:27 pm

To be fair, "divine wind" is not a word and so would be wrong.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by fett0001 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:45 pm

Cody wrote:To be fair, "divine wind" is not a word and so would be wrong.
It could easily be considered a compound word in English. It refers to a specific thing (kamikaze) that doesn't take its meaning from its constituent parts; it's similar to the type of meeting called a "round table."
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Cody » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:01 pm

In no way would a player consider those two things a "word"; you'd be criticized for confusing players if you used such an identifier in a question on those terms. Had the tossup used "term", there would be some understandable confusion; that's not the case.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:02 pm

fett0001 wrote:
Cody wrote:To be fair, "divine wind" is not a word and so would be wrong.
It could easily be considered a compound word in English. It refers to a specific thing (kamikaze) that doesn't take its meaning from its constituent parts; it's similar to the type of meeting called a "round table."
This doesn't really make sense to me. It's a translation of a foreign word; if a question asked for kindergarten, we wouldn't accept "children's garden." No one ever says, "let's discuss the divine wind attacks on the USS Bunker Hill."
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:29 am

To make another comparison: Would "lightning war" be allowed for "blitzkrieg"?
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Corry » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:37 am

If I were editing these particular questions, I'd probably prompt on "divine wind" and "lightning war". Even if the literal translations aren't technically correct, NAQT questions are read faaaast in real-life tournaments, I never want to neg high school players for 90% knowing things.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:07 pm

Corry wrote:If I were editing these particular questions, I'd probably prompt on "divine wind" and "lightning war". Even if the literal translations aren't technically correct, NAQT questions are read faaaast in real-life tournaments, I never want to neg high school players for 90% knowing things.
You know, this brings up a tangential theory point I've always wondered about when writing questions. I technically have to agree with the people saying not to prompt--"divine wind" is definitely not a "word." But I've also always held that if you can demonstrate you know within a narrow margin what the question is asking for, then you deserve the points--thus why in general I prompt on works for authors even if the last clue heard isn't that work, I accept Faraday's Law for Faraday, etc.--you know what you're talking about, I'm not going to neg you because it's 4pm, you're tired, and the reader was a little fast.

When I was writing for NAQT, whether or not a similar leeway was applied seem to be a little arbitrary and editor-dependent, but I don't think I went searching for a NAQT styling rule on the matter. I'm interested to hear from a (NAQT) editor or other people what they think about this line of reasoning.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:21 pm

UlyssesInvictus wrote:When I was writing for NAQT, whether or not a similar leeway was applied seem to be a little arbitrary and editor-dependent, but I don't think I went searching for a NAQT styling rule on the matter. I'm interested to hear from a (NAQT) editor or other people what they think about this line of reasoning.
We're actually discussing this issue this summer; expect a formal statement of policy when we release updated rules and correctness guidelines later this month.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by RexSueciae » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:27 pm

UlyssesInvictus wrote: You know, this brings up a tangential theory point I've always wondered about when writing questions. I technically have to agree with the people saying not to prompt--"divine wind" is definitely not a "word." But I've also always held that if you can demonstrate you know within a narrow margin what the question is asking for, then you deserve the points--thus why in general I prompt on works for authors even if the last clue heard isn't that work, I accept Faraday's Law for Faraday, etc.--you know what you're talking about, I'm not going to neg you because it's 4pm, you're tired, and the reader was a little fast.
What? No! Those situations are not the same! If you hear a clue about magnetic flux in a law named after this man, and you buzz in and say "oh, that's referring to Faraday's law!" then you are correctly identifying the answer of a question based on a clue that you heard! What that has to do with--actually, back up a second. If a question mentions characters like Turkey and Nippers, then goes on to talk about a great white whale, and I buzz in with a triumphant cry of "Bartleby the Scrivener," would you seriously prompt me? Even if you hold to a policy of accepting approximate knowledge of a specific answerline, that's nothing short of insane.

On the specific example of "divine wind" for "kamikaze," I have never seen aerial attacks upon warships in the Pacific Theatre referred to as "divine wind attacks." In many textbooks you'll see sentences like "the kamikaze (or 'divine wind') attacks began in earnest after" et cetera and so forth, in order to educate on why they're called kamikaze (insert background on the Mongol invasions), so many people who buzz in with "divine wind" might have buzzed in, forgotten what it was called, thought "wait so the English translation is divine wind, maybe they'll take that" and made the quizbowl equivalent of a Hail Mary pass despite the principle that things have names, and "divine wind" generally isn't accepted as one of them. If you can find me a history book in which the author consistently makes reference to "divine wind" attacks, I'll gladly concede the point, but until then, I don't see why anyone should prompt "divine wind" for "kamikaze."
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:50 pm

RexSueciae wrote:What? No! Those situations are not the same! If you hear a clue about magnetic flux in a law named after this man, and you buzz in and say "oh, that's referring to Faraday's law!" then you are correctly identifying the answer of a question based on a clue that you heard! What that has to do with--actually, back up a second. If a question mentions characters like Turkey and Nippers, then goes on to talk about a great white whale, and I buzz in with a triumphant cry of "Bartleby the Scrivener," would you seriously prompt me? Even if you hold to a policy of accepting approximate knowledge of a specific answerline, that's nothing short of insane.
Hmm--maybe I shouldn't have used that example that liberally; I do think you're strawmanning me, though, an example more akin to what I was thinking of is if you buzzed at Turkey and Nippers (like, before you heard white whale at all). So, e.g., "[somewhere in the middle of the question] "one work by this author contains characters like Turkey and Nippers---" and then buzz with Bartleby. Actually in that case, I probably wouldn't prompt either, but it's closer to what I'm thinking of. You seem to be in agreement with me about Faraday's law, though, and I've decided that's a good example of what I'm thinking of i.e. "well the question asks for a man but you named a law." Even more so if you just shouted in excitement "FARADAY'S LAW :D!!!!" without this moment of "oh that's referring to" which implies you were just thinking out loud.
RexSueciae wrote:On the specific example of "divine wind" for "kamikaze," I have never seen aerial attacks upon warships in the Pacific Theatre referred to as "divine wind attacks." In many textbooks you'll see sentences like "the kamikaze (or 'divine wind') attacks began in earnest after" et cetera and so forth, in order to educate on why they're called kamikaze (insert background on the Mongol invasions), so many people who buzz in with "divine wind" might have buzzed in, forgotten what it was called, thought "wait so the English translation is divine wind, maybe they'll take that" and made the quizbowl equivalent of a Hail Mary pass despite the principle that things have names, and "divine wind" generally isn't accepted as one of them. If you can find me a history book in which the author consistently makes reference to "divine wind" attacks, I'll gladly concede the point, but until then, I don't see why anyone should prompt "divine wind" for "kamikaze."
I wasn't trying to make it seem like had a strong opinion either way with the kamikaze example; IMO I would have prompted before aerial attacks but not after, my logic being "kamikaze was primarily a (at time of initial use) Japanese-used term for the Mongol attacks and so a Japanese-->English translation is accepted; the aerial attacks was both an American and Japanese term, wherein both used kamikaze, so no translation allowed." But you know, like I said, I'm not too wedded to a position.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by 1992 in spaceflight » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:22 pm

So another thing that I wanted to talk about but couldn't remember when I made my first post: could I see the text of the empiricism tossup (I think it was in 146, the state championship Is set) and conversion statistics for it? I remember thinking while reading it that it seemed like it was pretty hard, but I want to see the conversion stats before continuing with this.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:58 pm

IS #144, actually.
IS #144 round 2 wrote:The "myth of the given" is criticized in a book on this concept "and the philosophy of mind" by Wilfrid Sellars. Carl Hempel belonged to a school of thought named for the "logical" form of this idea. Another form of it is expounded in a work that distinguishes the "primary" and "secondary" qualities of objects. An (*) Essay Concerning Human Understanding by John Locke exemplifies--for 10 points--what movement opposed to rationalism?

answer: _empiricism_ (accept word forms; accept _Empiricism and the Philosophy of Mind_ or _logical empiricism_)
0/2/2 in 16 rooms, so too hard for this level.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by jupiter » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:24 pm

I forget which IS set this was in, but what was the conversion rate for the Scottsboro Boys tossup?
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:26 pm

jupiter wrote:I forget which IS set this was in, but what was the conversion rate for the Scottsboro Boys tossup?
IS #140 round 9 wrote:In 2013 three members of this group, including Andy Wright and Haywood Patterson, were posthumously pardoned. The last surviving member, Clarence Norris, died in 1989, 13 years after being pardoned by George Wallace. They were put on trial after being accused of attacking two (*) white women on a train. For 10 points--what name was given to a group of African-American "boys" sentenced to death in Alabama for rape in 1931?

answer: _Scottsboro Boys_ (accept _Scottsboro Nine_; accept _Scottsboro_ after "Boys")
2/10/2 in 14 rooms.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by jupiter » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:39 pm

bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
jupiter wrote:I forget which IS set this was in, but what was the conversion rate for the Scottsboro Boys tossup?
IS #140 round 9 wrote:In 2013 three members of this group, including Andy Wright and Haywood Patterson, were posthumously pardoned. The last surviving member, Clarence Norris, died in 1989, 13 years after being pardoned by George Wallace. They were put on trial after being accused of attacking two (*) white women on a train. For 10 points--what name was given to a group of African-American "boys" sentenced to death in Alabama for rape in 1931?

answer: _Scottsboro Boys_ (accept _Scottsboro Nine_; accept _Scottsboro_ after "Boys")
2/10/2 in 14 rooms.
I thought that answer line was too hard for IS so I waited until the end to buzz. I guess it's more famous than I think; the conversion stats were fine.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by AGoodMan » Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:55 pm

When/How can we start discussing 2015-16 IS sets?
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by jonah » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:04 pm

randomguy1997 wrote:When/How can we start discussing 2015-16 IS sets?
When Jeff posts to that effect, probably shortly after the 2016 HSNCT. If you have feedback before then, we welcome it at naqt@naqt.com, or if it is specifically about errata, at errata@naqt.com.
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Re: 2014-15 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by AGoodMan » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:24 pm

jonah wrote:
randomguy1997 wrote:When/How can we start discussing 2015-16 IS sets?
When Jeff posts to that effect, probably shortly after the 2016 HSNCT. If you have feedback before then, we welcome it at naqt@naqt.com, or if it is specifically about errata, at errata@naqt.com.
Thank you. I emailed about a possible error on one tossup.
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