NAQT HSNCT field discussion

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
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Post by samer »

Trevkeeper wrote:Dang, 80 is large. Heck, 60 is pretty large too. If the field exceeds 64 teams, the amount of prelim rounds goes from 10 down to 8, correct?
The number of guaranteed games drops from 10 to 8. [Keep in mind: 90 teams x 8 games in 10 rounds = 36 rooms; 96 teams x 10 games = 48 rooms.]
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Post by solonqb »

With 92 teams, only four spots left now. This opening meeting will certainly be something else.
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Post by NoahMinkCHS »

Would this be the largest national tournament ever held at one site?

(Thus excluding :chip:)
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Post by First Chairman »

One that is touted as a national in one day, yes. Brookwood has had in the 200's before.
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Post by steven-lamp »

200's?!? I didn't think they ever got THAT large. I know this and last year's were around 120 teams or so.
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Post by Byko »

One that is touted as a national in one day, yes. Brookwood has had in the 200's before.
Not so fast my friend! Brookwood had 168 teams back in 1997, and that's as large as it's ever gotten. Rick's kept it to about 120 the last couple years, and from what he's told me, that's as large as it will ever get. For 168 teams, every space in the school (including all the portables) had to be used. 120 is a much easier number to work with, anyways.
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Post by First Chairman »

Hmm... I'm sure JRB will pipe in and slap my accuracy if the 200's isn't true. I thought he told me he had a field that big once upon a time. It would explain the one year that he had a 96-team single-elimination bracket.

Then again, I'm getting pretty damn old. :wink:
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Post by rhentzel »

Coaches and Players --

As of this morning, 93 teams were registed for NAQT's 2005 High School National Championship Tournament in Chicago. While we would like to accommodate every possible team, logistical reasons have forced us to place a hard cap at 96 teams. If you are interested in coming and want to reserve one of those three remaining spots, please complete the registration process as quickly as possible since they will be allocated on a first-come, first-served basis.

The webpage for the tournament is here:

http://www.naqt.com/hsnct/2005/2005-hs-nct-details.html

The current field is here:

http://www.naqt.com/hsnct/2005/field.html

And the registration page is here:

http://www.naqt.com/hsnct/2005/registration.jsp

We are also continuing to accept standby teams for the event:

http://www.naqt.com/hsnct/standby.html

Note that it is not necessary to have qualified for the HS NCT in order to attend as a standby team.

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Post by Dan Greenstein »

R. wrote:As of this morning, 93 teams were registed for NAQT's 2005 High School National Championship Tournament in Chicago. While we would like to accommodate every possible team, logistical reasons have forced us to place a hard cap at 96 teams.
Are you implying NAQT once had thoughts of potentially running a tournament with a three-digit number of teams? Now that would be amazing, even beyond the unbelievable turnout this year.
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Post by jrbarry »

The BISB at Brookwood got to 168 teams playing 8 prelims with each team having two byes. I decided a few years ago to cap it at 120-126 with everyone playing 5 prelims and no byes. Everyone advances to the single-elimination playoffs.

9-11 has reduced the number of teams who travel to Bwood for the BISB. It has reduced our ability to trqavel by air. I probably couldn't get 168 teams now.
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Post by solonqb »

94 now.

What surprises me now is the increasingly strong California/Washington contingent. It will be interesting to see Left Coast Quizbowl and how they match up against the traditional Midwestern/Southern/DC powers.
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Southern California

Post by cvdwightw »

I would expect Mission San Jose A and maybe Santa Monica to make the playoffs. Mission San Jose returns their best player from a playoff team last year. Santa Monica has been blowing away the competition down here for the past couple of years. They're not going to dominate anyone with huge power numbers, but they know their stuff, work well together, and win the buzzer races. Their only real problem is inexperience at the national level.

Edison is going to be interesting. They've played very well in some tournaments, but they got stuck in a tough prelim bracket at state champs and missed the upper playoff bracket. They could easily go anywhere from 2-6 to 5-3 in the prelims.

I don't know that much about the other teams. La Jolla won a tournament on one of the JV sets, so I can't really say anything about their depth on a nationals-level set.

Frankly, I think Southern California quiz bowl is not as good as it used to be back when I was playing. In 2004 we saw a tournament's leading scorer lead his team to a solid last-place finish. Last year was the first time in 4 years that no Southern California team made the playoffs at HSNCT. Hopefully (for me) Santa Monica, Edison, and/or La Jolla can make it only an aberration.
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predictions

Post by bigtrain »

Seeing as how my team wont be attending this national championship tournament, I thought I might offer some less biased predictions.

Lucky top 13 in no particular order:

Mission San Jose- I believe they are bringing back all of their A team. They should improve on their playoff performance from last year

Brookwood- Pretty much always does well at nationals. They've beaten Dorman this year and consistently made the top four at big southern tournaments. They seem to be very evenly matched with Walton.

Walton- See above

duPont Manual- They won UVA's tournament against some of the best in the mid-Atlantic.

Detroit Catholic Central- They bring back one of last years top scorers, Joel Knight, who has led them to victory over everyone in Michigan and almost everyone else in the midwest. They've encountered the most trouble this year against Solon with whom they've seemingly created a stiff rivalry.

Solon- Pretty dominant in the midwest on NAQT format. As mentioned above, they seem even with DCC. The also got 3rd at Dunbar and played an extremely close game against duPont Manual. They bring back one of last years top scorers, Noah Rahman.

Richard Montgomery- Has defeated many of the mid-Atlantic's best throughout the year. Suprisingly powerful team despite losing most of last years A team.

State College- Very strong team that has defeated many of the best teams in the mid-Atlantic. They bring back all but one of their top four players from last year.

Fort Mill- They have done very well in Southern tournaments throughout the year defeating teams such as Dorman.

Dorman- Definately not as dominant in the South as they have been in previous years. Nevertheless, they are probobaly the #1 team in their region for yet another year.

Maggie Walker Governor's School- They are a returning PACE NSC champion. Despite losing their entire A team, they are easily an elite team.

Thomas Jefferson A- This is my wildcard team: despite the overwhelming odds against them qualifying for the NAQT HSNCT, they still managed to do it. If they can channel that momentum towards their game, they could do well. :wink: In all seriousness, this will be the year when they get their hat trick.

Thomas Jefferson B- This is the B team your mother warned you about.

Honorable Mention: Okemos, Montgomery Blair, Dunbar, St. John's, St. Andrew's, LAMP, (insert some school from Illinois here for political correctness)
Last edited by bigtrain on Mon May 23, 2005 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by solonqb »

I would look for a top performance from Danville as well.
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Re: predictions

Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

bigtrain wrote: Maggie Walker Governor's School- They are a returning PACE NSC champion. Despite losing their entire A team, they are easily an elite team.

Thomas Jefferson A- This is my wildcard team: despite the overwhelming odds against them qualifying for the NAQT HSNCT, they still managed to do it. If they can channel that momentum towards their game, they could do well. :wink: In all seriousness, this will be the year when they get their hat trick.
lol. you know, people talk about who's going to upset tj, but the simple fact is, they've sold their soul to satan. if they ever lost a giant flame would consume their side of the room. the only way that would happen is if you perhaps played them in a trash round. and the thing is, they know when to neg out, like at duke we (mlw b) weren't playin too well, and plus we're not the best competition for them, but in the round we played them they got a lot of negs, but after that one they was awn fiyah. anyway since our team(s) has/have seen dupont, dorman, tj (obviously), state college, gonzaga, and raleigh charter (which the b team finished ahead of once), we can tell you, it'll most likely take an alignment of all the planets and the stomach flu for them to lose. although dupont was rather impressive i must say. btw i appreciate your mention of us on the list :wink: yea there should be an award for best team w/ no seniors...
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Post by Stained Diviner »

(insert some school from Illinois here for political correctness)
I can't wait! It's too bad you won't be there.
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Post by blazer06 »

haha thanks for the honorable mention. we dont have any seniors either. which may/may not be a good thing, cuz i think we finally have the "real" blair A at naqt.
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Post by No Sollositing On Premise »

I'll give you an elite eight for NAQT, in no particular order.

State College - solid to excellent all year.

Richard Montgomery - They get my vote as the best Maryland team this year (on pyramidal questions). I am also fairly certain that they have underclassmen among them, so they ought to be very good next year as well.

Mission San Jose - If they return that kid with the insane tossups-negs ratio, then they'll make the playoffs again at the very least. There could also very well be some more west coasters that go deep in to the playoffs, but I have no educated opinion west of the Mississippi.

DuPont Manual - They're the best team on this list that isn't TJ A. You heard me. They won UVA's naqt tournament in extremely impressive undefeated fashion.

Dorman - They return only one player from their excellent A team from last year, but this is no one-person team. They have one of the biggest names in the game to defend and they will impress.

TJ A - They decide to replace their graduated co-captain with a B teamer that scored more than any other TJ player at last year's national tournaments. Not bad. They're my pick to win, and if they don't go undefeated I will be surprised.

Maggie Walker A - They lose all four members of one of the greatest teams ever and replace it with the strongest '06 class around. They'll go far, and be even better next year.

TJ B - OK, my extremely biased prediction of my former team: they won't do as well in prelims scoring as last year's B team, but they'll go farther in the playoffs. While I think that last year's B team was a bit better than this edition, they're WAY less prone to choking like we were last year at both nationals (no thanks to me).

That list looks pretty solid, but the one team it's missing for a perfect field is Raleigh Charter. They've hung with top teams all year and they won TJ's house-written tournament last winter. You know, the HS tourney with very difficult nationals-caliber questions where Charter outplayed virtually every good team in the Mid-Atlantic? I hope they go to PACE, because they're contenders.

Oh, and Danville is my pick for Small Schools champion, over Brindlee Mountain.
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Post by quiz4life »

Just wondering will NAQT post, on their website, the schedule of the early matches? Also will :kenj: be there? We have never seen him play but we all know about him.

With 8 matches in one day, is there much time in between matches? Are teams allowed, even encouraged to watch other matches?

Does NAQT supply name tags for the players? It would be good to know names and where everyone is from.
I enjoy reading the postings, they are informative and fun.
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Post by steven-lamp »

I appreciate the props, but we played horribly at the NAQT state tournament this year. Hopefully HSNCT won't be too rough for us.
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Post by NoahMinkCHS »

quiz4life wrote:Just wondering will NAQT post, on their website, the schedule of the early matches?
Don't expect it, generally the first one is random (or at least, it's not known how it's picked) and then you're power-matched from there. Check their website for how that works; in general, you play a team with the same or similar record to yours so far, but there are specific rules as to which team you play.
With 8 matches in one day, is there much time in between matches? Are teams allowed, even encouraged to watch other matches?
There's usually some down time while the power matched seedings are made, especially in the late rounds, but nobody is playing during that time, so you wouldn't be able to watch another match. In fact, I think until a team is eliminated, there's not really any time to watch other teams play. I assume (though I don't know) that's true this year.

Hope this helps, and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I will fill you in on the rest. I'm curious about the logistics of a tournament much larger than the (NAQT) ones I went to.
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Post by solonqb »

The website still says they're sticking to ten matches, maybe they haven't updated it yet.
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Post by bigtrain »

laszlow wrote:I'll give you an elite eight for NAQT, in no particular order....Mission San Jose
I wouldn't put Mission San Jose in my elite eight by virtue of the fact that they are located in the "great desert of quiz bowl" and have had almost no experience playing strong teams this year. The southern power house teams I mentioned all have experience playing teams of the highest caliber, a fact which will probobaly allow them to progress further into the playoffs.
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Post by No Sollositing On Premise »

I put Mission San Jose that high because they did very well last year with 95% of their effort coming from an underclassman, and I decided to go with that outstanding underclassman instead of Solon or DCC (I'm not kidding when I say that I rolled a dice to determine which of those three to put on; I never trust one-person teams). Plus, Capistrano Valley and Los Alamitos had high finishes when I was in high school, so I figure that there has to be something good about the CA circuit.
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Post by First Chairman »

laszlow wrote: That list looks pretty solid, but the one team it's missing for a perfect field is Raleigh Charter. They've hung with top teams all year and they won TJ's house-written tournament last winter. You know, the HS tourney with very difficult nationals-caliber questions where Charter outplayed virtually every good team in the Mid-Atlantic? I hope they go to PACE, because they're contenders.
Eric could correct me if things have changed, but exams (I think) prevent them from going to PACE this year. Hopefully next year they'll be there.
Last edited by First Chairman on Tue May 24, 2005 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by pakman044 »

Based on where it's proposed to be next year, they'd better be there. Even I may be there [I'll definitely have to travel a bunch to get there ;-) ].

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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

E.T. Chuck wrote: Eric could correct me if things have changed, but exams (I think) prevent them from going to PACE this year. Hopefully next year they'll be there.
heck, sat ii's are on june 4th but our a team is still going to naqt, even though it consists of 3 juniors and one sophomore. and our exams are the week after pace but our whole lineup from a thru c is going. does raleigh charter have exams on saturday? otherwise, perhaps they're just intimidated hehehe (jm...). anyway, i'm curious, what tournament did shanghai american school go to in order to qualify for naqt? also, i noticed tj is sending 3 teams, but i thought naqt only allowed 3 if one was a standby or if they were trying to get the field to 64 or 80 teams.
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Post by jewtemplar »

Having competed against Mission San Jose's science bowl team (which is roughly equivalent to its qb team, I think) I definitely think they at least have the skills to make it very deep into the naqt playoffs. Though I don't know so much about their non-science knowledge base, I think they might be dangerous.
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Post by quiz4life »

Shanghai American School was invited on a wild card-our showings in the KMO, plus local tournaments and that as a coach I have been around long enough to know our team is worthy of being there. Add it all up and it was good enough to please the powers to be. In addition I think having an international school added a bit of prestige.

My team is very excited to be coming. We all look forward to meeting the schools and players that we have read about. As coach, I'll be looking to steal as many good ideas as I can. Hopefully you coaches will not mind helping out. I am also hoping that I can spread NAQT to other international schools and in the future send more international schools to the NAQT tournament. Next year I will be teaching in Abu Dhabi. That whole area already has traveling quiz teams.
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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

^^ well sir, best of luck to you! it is always good to have at least one overseas school at a national tournament. the prestige factor is a worthy one indeed. hopefully someday we might see you/Abu Dhabi at pace as well...
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Post by cvdwightw »

steven-lamp wrote:I appreciate the props, but we played horribly at the NAQT state tournament this year. Hopefully HSNCT won't be too rough for us.
Hey, my senior year, we finished a very distant tied for third at NAQT state (out of 14), but were literally one question away from top 7 at HSNCT. Just write it off as an aberration and play better at HSNCT; good things can and will happen.
laszlow wrote:Plus, Capistrano Valley and Los Alamitos had high finishes when I was in high school, so I figure that there has to be something good about the CA circuit.
I only played Northern California high school teams three times during my "career" from '00-'03; California is really two nearly distinct circuits. I had the good fortune to be playing at what I considered the high of the Southern California circuit (it's since declined), but I think that the Northern California circuit has really emerged and could send several other dangerous teams in future years.

Mission San Jose's team reminds me of those high-finishing Capo Valley and Los Al teams in that they were led by a high-scoring senior surrounded by players who could contribute when needed, and returned essentially the same team from a previous HSNCT. So, yeah, they could be a force to be reckoned with.
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Post by P3nguinP0wered »

MISSION SAN JOSE WILL OWN

No bias there
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Post by djayboots »

P3nguinP0wered wrote:MISSION SAN JOSE WILL OWN

No bias there
Ugh, please don't let this guy's actions color your opinion of the MSJ quiz bowl team as a whole. And while we certainly appreciate the mentions, we are not going in expecting too much.

Having played (and lost to) Lakeside twice, I really do believe that they are the best team on the west coast. What impresses me most is that they come from an area that, as I understand it, has very few, if any, NAQT events.
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Post by bigtrain »

cdvwightw wrote:those high-finishing Capo Valley and Los Al teams
Didn't one of those teams send a two person team to Yale a few years ago that crushed everyone, including Dorman and TJ.
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Post by No Sollositing On Premise »

That was Los Alamitos, when I was a sophomore (the year before TJ had any nationals success). The two guys were named Charles and Brendan, and they pretty much burninated everyone. Charles was a beast and Brendan was very good.
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Post by Quizbowlman4 »

As for Lakeside, there is no way that a team that has played in (as far as I can tell) one NAQT tournament can make any sort of move at nationals. Mission San Jose won the tournament, despite losing to Lakeside twice, because they are a better team. Lakeside must have had two magnificent games, but they don't have the experience or skill of MSJ. I believe one of Lakeside's victories over MSJ was in overtime, as well. While I am glad that more teams from the west coast are making the move to nationals, I don't think they will be any sort of force.
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Post by solonqb »

laszlow wrote:That was Los Alamitos, when I was a sophomore (the year before TJ had any nationals success). The two guys were named Charles and Brendan, and they pretty much burninated everyone. Charles was a beast and Brendan was very good.
A brief googling confirms that this is indeed Charles Meigs of UCLA D2 infamy.

Kevin, when I was looking at Cardinal Classic 2004 stats this year to see Lakeside's performance, I noticed Ysleta?!?!? How the hell do they have money to go to Stanford for a tournament?
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Post by P3nguinP0wered »

The pot of gold at the end of the rainbow
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Post by wd4gdz »

To: Anyone

If the NAQT-run Friday night scrimmages aren't enough for you, let me know if you'd like to play on some questions Thursday night as well (after ~8pm).
I'd be happy to read for your teams, play against you, etc.

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Post by quiz4life »

Hi Billy,
I think my team would be up for that. We need the experience. We have so many questions...
We arrive at the airport at 6:45 by the time we get to the hotel it will be almost 8. Can you give me a call? If we are not dead from jet lag we will play. If the kids are beat I'll buy the first round of--cola :wink: if you let me pick your brain. Coaches that goes for you all!
Thanks,
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Post by wd4gdz »

quiz4life wrote:Can you give me a call?
Gladly, if you give me your cell phone number.
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Post by tj b boy »

Bored at work, so I made a map of all the schools sending teams to NAQT according to where Mapquest puts their high school, and if I made something like that, why not post it here? I had to make a few educated guesses, so a few dots might be off.

I was going to make them different colors for different numbers of teams and for small-schoolness, but mspaint got stuck in grayscale somehow. I did color the states sending no school gray.

Most schools are from the suburbs of fairly large cities. Land o' Lakes, WI wins the "Most Rural-Looking on Mapquest" award; as far as I can tell, they're on a small road in the trackless wastes of northern Wisconsin/the UP.

Image


edit: Also I may have been the one to coin the term "Great [American] Desert of quiz bowl," back when I used to post. What I meant at the time, I think, didn't include California. I was referring to the non-Texas Great Plains and to the Mountain West. The Plains have come out in force this year and to some extent last year, but I think the idea holds true for the solid gray from Iowa to California. Our kind of quiz bowl is pretty well established on the left coast, from what I hear. Unless nobody noticed when I said it the first time, in which case I'm just being conceited. Carry on.
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Post by Stained Diviner »

Total population of all gray states West of the Mississippi River: 32,215,768
Total West of Mississippi River not counting Missouri or Arkansas: 23,947,157
Total population of New York and New England: 32,898,974
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Post by Tegan »

[quote="tj b boy"] Land o' Lakes, WI wins the "Most Rural-Looking on Mapquest" award; as far as I can tell, they're on a small road in the trackless wastes of northern Wisconsin/the UP.

I took my team from the Chicago suburbs to Land O'Lakes for a tournament last year. The description is qute apt in terms of a gravel road for part of the way, and all of the local radio stations play the "Deliverance" soundtrack 24-7. My kids were convinced I had lost it and they were all being driven to the ends of the world to be sacrificed to some local harvest god-being like in "Children of the Corn".

The school (Conserve), however, is one of the single most beautiful campuses, college or otherwise, I have ever visited. It is a school that has, at its core, a belief in teaching environmental responsibility. Their team last year was really quite good. It is a boarding school, so while the setting is rural, these are no country bumpkins who will be showing up.
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Post by bigtrain »

Good luck to everyone going! I'm rooting for the local teams in attendance: Richard Montgomery, Montgomery Blair and to some extent, TJ (even though they live on the wrong side of the river).
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Yes, good luck tomorrow! It is going to be fun, I'm sure.
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Post by bigtrain »

Up to date results can be found at http://naqt.com/hsnct/2005/stats.html
I see a lot of unexpected results so far.
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Post by NotBhan »

This has probably been mentioned elsewhere, but be aware that the HSNCT is being mirrored for a couple of open events, so I'd imagine NAQT would like you to refrain from discussing individual questions on public message boards.

The TJ A average of just over 610 a game (through 8 rounds) is pretty incredible. As strong as last year's Thomas Jefferson A team was, they only reached 600 in one of their first ten HSNCT matches in 2004.

--Raj Dhuwalia, not a member of NAQT or speaking on its behalf
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Post by Trevkeeper »

I just got back from HSNCT (I'm on one of the "Commuting" Illinois teams), and it was a blast so far. Of the three Illinois teams that went, two of them (New Trier and Wheaton North) are going to be playing tomorrow (and Stevenson was missing their best player, and WN was missing their Captain today). New Trier went 7-3 while WN went 6-4.

We were 7-3, but just as easily could have been 9-1. Two of our three losses were heart breakers; one was in OT, and the other was where the other team got the last tossup plus two bonus parts to beat us by 5.

For those interested in the "Can Illinois compare to other regions" argument, here's the breakdown:

1-0 against Texas teams (admittedly, it was a team that only finished with a few wins)

1-0 against other Illinois teams

1-0 against California teams

1-0 against Georgia teams

1-2 against VA/MD teams (more on that in a bit)

1-0 against New Jersey teams

1-0 against Minnesota teams

0-1 against Michigan teams

The only team that completely controlled us was DCC. I have never played them before, but apparently Lit is their strong suit. They got a good lit set that round (and were just quicker overall) and beat us 340-160.

For the VA/MD teams, we played Charlottesville, Montgomery Blair, and TJ C. The latter two were the two heartbreakers previously mentioned. Were up 25 going into the last question, and they won by 5 (and, Ken Jennings was our scorekeeper that round. I tried not goggle/giggle. He's a person too). Montgomery Blair was...well, it was...I'll just describe it. In the first few tossups, we got ahead a bit, but couldn't convert much of the bonuses. They were solid through the middle and end of the half, and were winning by about 100 at the break. We rallied in the second half, and on the last bonus part of the last question, a team member pulled out answer at the last second to tie the game. In OT, they got the first question, and we got the second. Then...they got the third. So, we lost on the third OT tiebreaker.

I don't have much an idea where 7-3 puts us seedings wise tomorrow, but I heard somewhere around 10th, which isn't bad.

We'll see what tomorrow brings. If you want to know anything else about what went on, just ask and I'll see what I can do.
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Post by The Time Keeper »

Anyone want to bet on whether or not a team will come within 250 points of TJ A tomorrow?
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