NAC Chicago

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NAC Chicago

Post by mrs. dalloway »

Thoughts on the tournament so far?

All I can say is that predictions of Chip milking Brad Rutter for all he's worth have been entirely true. Cheesy Jeopardy jokes...constant references to the guy as "Mr. Brad Rutter over here"...and so on. But I've enjoyed it so far. I kind of like the fast-paced format, as opposed to IHSA.

Any predictions based on competition thus far?
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

:) Help us out here, Colleen...Chip won't post results until he's written enough melodrama into it to make it seem like a sitcom, not a quiz bowl tournament.

What's actually happening there? (Namely, how are you and Latin doing, but other results aren't bad either)
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Post by Marcel Duchamp »

Be sure to check out the World Naked Bike Ride tonight at 6! Starts at 1666 N. California, Chicago, IL. I'm sure you'll get more out of it than you will out of chip.
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If they want to discuss Chip, they can do so. If you really want to talk about nudes on wheels, start your own topic. Somewhere else. I would split this off, but I don't think anyone cares. ~laszlow
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Post by Ben Dillon »

We finished our 17th year at NAC and made the playoffs for only the 4th time ever there. [I coach at St. Joseph's HS in South Bend, IN.]

When we left at noon yesterday, there were six teams remaining: the four teams who participated at Chicago (Chaska, El Paso, Booker T. Washington, and the team that eliminated us, Byram Hills), and the two teams from previous phases, Holland Hall (who won in New Orleans) and Russell (who won in DC).

Having not seen either of the other phase winners play, my money is on Byram Hills to win the tournament. They really spanked us in the quarterfinals, 460-175.

Side note: Chip had a bonus series entitled "Brad Rutter", which went from the 5-pointer ("Whom did Brad beat to win $2 million?") to the 20-pointer ("For what Pennsylvania high school did Brad play in '95 to win the NAC title?").

Ben :D
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Post by Romero »

Quote Website: "The competition focuses on academic information - "significa" rather than "trivia""

I know that my high school had a whole week in which we studied the impact Brad Rutter has on culture.

It is nice to see that Chip and his competition are still a bad joke after all these years.

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Post by First Chairman »

Hi Ben:
Ben Dillon wrote:Side note: Chip had a bonus series entitled "Brad Rutter", which went from the 5-pointer ("Whom did Brad beat to win $2 million?") to the 20-pointer ("For what Pennsylvania high school did Brad play in '95 to win the NAC title?").

Ben :D
I think we need to be careful not to expose questions that may be used in tournament mirrors of ... oh wait. Never mind. :cool: :grin:

:chip: will probably talk about it in his little wrap-up. Or they'll find their way into a tournament set sometime.

I'm still waiting for the Brad Rutter emoticon. And the Rutter commercials for Sprint PCS.
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Post by BroNi »

Holland Hall (OK) won the NAC this year.
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Post by jmh »

Yes, Holland Hall (Tulsa, OK) over El Paso (El Paso, TX)
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Post by Important Bird Area »

"the 20-pointer ("For what Pennsylvania high school did Brad play in '95 to win the NAC title?")."

Even on its own terms this is wrong, since Brad's highest NAC finish was second, in 1994.
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Post by First Chairman »

Brad didn't play for Governor's School (now Maggie Walker) with Amanda Goad? I'm shocked! :shock:
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Post by solonqb »

Who wrote that tossup at the All-Scholars Game, anyway?
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Post by Romero »

bt_green_warbler wrote:"the 20-pointer ("For what Pennsylvania high school did Brad play in '95 to win the NAC title?")."

Even on its own terms this is wrong, since Brad's highest NAC finish was second, in 1994.
:chip: has never let factual history get in the way of self-aggrandizement before, why start now :grin:
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Post by Ben Dillon »

Oops... perhaps I didn't hear the question well... he probably just asked which school Brad played for, and my brain incorrectly filled in the blank with "won the NAC title".
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Post by First Chairman »

solonqb wrote:Who wrote that tossup at the All-Scholars Game, anyway?
I did.
2005 All-Scholars Game wrote:He currently works as a motivational speaker, giving the lecture “You Have the Answerâ€
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Post by NoahMinkCHS »

Does the Brad Rutter question count as self-parody?

How about if (well, maybe "even though") it was probably meant in what passes for total seriousness with that group?
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Post by First Chairman »

NoahMinkCHS wrote:Does the Brad Rutter question count as self-parody?

How about if (well, maybe "even though") it was probably meant in what passes for total seriousness with that group?
Depends on the context. If it decided an elimination game...
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Post by Chris Frankel »

Well since :chip: put up his final NAC summary (amusing how he still lets his flagship event take a backseat to Brad Rutter on the website, but I digress), I will quote the Brad Rutter question as written on that page:
Here are the questions we used in the BRAD RUTTER bonus at this year's Nationals.

You must give your responses in the form of a question.

(5) Brad Rutter defeated him head-to-head to replace him as the top alltime moneywinner in game show history.
Qstn. Who is Ken Jennings?

(10) Brad says the only crazy thing he did with his million-dollar winnings back in 2002 was buy this fancy German sports car.
Qstn. What is a Porsche?

(15) In 1994 and 1995, Brad competed and, of course, excelled, at the National Academic Championship and during the contestant interviews, he told Chip Beall he wanted to do THIS for a living.
Qstn. What is "I want your job"? (Accept write or host quiz programs.)

(20) Brad was working as a record store clerk in 2000 when his alma mater, this Pennsylvania school, won the National Academic Championship.
Qstn. What is Manheim Township?
http://www.qunlimited.com/national.htm if you're interested; I think the tournament field and questions like those say all that need to be said.
"They sometimes get fooled by the direction a question is going to take, and that's intentional," said Reid. "The players on these teams are so good that 90 percent of the time they could interrupt the question and give the correct answer if the questions didn't take those kinds of turns. That wouldn't be fun to watch, so every now and then as I design these suckers, I say to myself, 'Watch this!' and wait 'til we're on camera. I got a lot of dirty looks this last tournament."
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Improving on what has been written...

Post by First Chairman »

Chris Frankel wrote:
Questions Unlimited Nationals Recap wrote:(15) In 1994 and 1995, Brad competed and, of course, excelled, at the National Academic Championship and during the contestant interviews, he told Chip Beall he wanted to BLANK.
Now that's a "Match Game" question. :cool: :wink: :smile: :grin:
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Post by First Chairman »

jmh wrote:Yes, Holland Hall (Tulsa, OK) over El Paso (El Paso, TX)
Wow... Another Red River Battle to rule them all... :cool:

Seriously though, props go to the El Paso team too. I'm sure that they would never have imagined doing so well there, but if it weren't for the promotion of the game in the area by Ysleta's Paul Cain and colleagues, there wouldn't be much to celebrate. Maybe this will help motivate more teams to play at nationals (and not just Chip's).

Also seeing Shanghai American's blurb, props to them too. It will be interesting how they report on their experiences with NAQT's and NAC's competitions.
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Post by Matt Weiner »

"Significa, not trivia" department:
Tied at 320 at the closing bell, the Waramaug A (CT) vs. El Paso (TX) game was settled when El Paso answered a basketball question about Coach John Wooden and UCLA.

All points on fourth-quarter visual questions went to Holland Hall, adding 65 points to their total, with identifications of Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, Lynx, Irish Wolfhound, and the flag of Kenya.

Russell won the fourth quarter as well; their most impressive responses being the identification of the F-4 jet from a visual,

They added big 20-pointers with identifications of Philip Glass from an audio clue; "Mrs. Dalloway" as the Virginia Woolf story central to the film The Hours; and Paul Robeson as the artist most closely associated with the song "Ol' Man River."

Russell tied it by identifying Chris Van Allsburg as the author of "The Polar Express."
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Post by jmh »

To exactly which of these questions do you object, and why?

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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Hopefully, all of them. At least that's what the sarcastic "Significa, not trivia" title Matt gave them implys.

ETA: I didn't see Glass in there the first time I read through it, so based on just what the clue was (either one of his symphonies or the sound of a :chip: packet being used to break a window to jump out of), it may or may not be a decent question.
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Post by jmh »

I'm quite serious. The above-mentioned questions are of very different degrees of significance/triviality. Also, there is a question of what subject matters and kinds of "culture" (in an old fashioned sense) one considers to be legitimate or not. I'd like to see someone who is highly critical of the questions discuss this and make a reasoned assessment on a case by case basis.

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Post by Matt Weiner »

jmh wrote:I'm quite serious. The above-mentioned questions are of very different degrees of significance/triviality. Also, there is a question of what subject matters and kinds of "culture" (in an old fashioned sense) one considers to be legitimate or not. I'd like to see someone who is highly critical of the questions discuss this and make a reasoned assessment on a case by case basis.
Basketball coaches, animals from pictures (2 questions like that, no less), singers of show tunes*, and children's books are not academic at all.
While the Mausoleum, figher jets, Kenya, and the respected book The Hours are legitimate knowledge, Chip chose to present them in the most trivial fashions possible: a picture, a picture, a question that was both a picture question and a flag question, and a film adaptation, respectively.

Chip's tournament contains virtually no significant academic content. It's almost entirely pop culture, out-of-context factoids, and gimmick questions designed to appeal to the general television audience he used to have. If you want to dismiss that as catering to the subjective preference of the teams attending, go ahead, but he is the one who chooses to label his style "significa, not trivia" and that's just dishonest.

*I am aware that Paul Robeson is academically important in the context of the civil rights movement and the attitude towards communists in the U.S., but that just makes it even worse that Chip chose to ask about him singing a song from a musical instead of addressing him in relation to those topics.
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Post by Romero »

I vehemently object to the Rutter question. "Ken Jennings" is the only defendable answer in the entire bonus, and even then it is not good answer selection. At least you can look up Manheim Township on the website, despite it being meta-knowledge to a horrible degree. The other two answers are not answerable by knowledge.

To me, the idea of "Significance" has to be based on reasonable expected knowledge for a high schooler, that is what information might an intelligent high schooler learn in the course of his studies. I can accept a certain amount of sports or pop culture (no qualms here with Robeson and Wooden for instance) as complementarily significant (even though it is not covered in high school studies).

The realization that I have made is that literally "ANY" team can win the NAC tournament, because it comes down to truly random knowledge. I am an educator and know of no curriculum which includes pictorial identification of Dog Breeds and US Military Jets or whose classes cover the cultural impact of Brad Rutter. The use of the phrase "Significa not Trivia" is disingenuous; it is a marketing ploy that is patently untrue.

I believe that in the context of the NAQT standings(http://www.naqt.com/hsnct/2005/results/stats.html), the NAC results speak for themselves. Holland Hall finished 30th; El Paso lost a regular season tournament to Ysleta who finished 95th. Over the years, many top level teams have stopped attending NAC due to its poor quality. Top finishing NAQT schools are all highly-academic centric institutions and seemingly support significant academic topic inclusion in questions with their choice of nationals.

One need look no further than the staffs of the respective tournaments to understand the difference. Chip's staff is composed of a myriad of game show hosts whose academic credentials are, in my mind suspect. NAQT and PACE's respective staffs are filled with recent college graduates, teachers, and a variety of advanced degrees and experiences (none of which to my knowledge includes game show host). Weiner is correct, Chip (and his staff) are incapable of producing questions which are reflective of significant academic content. Teams which like cheesy game-show like trivia should continue to attend NAC; teams which appreciate questions which are academic will continue to support NAQT and PACE with their attendance.
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Post by jmh »

I have no axe to grind about the questions or tournaments. At least we are beginning to get coherent arguments instead of blanket statements about the questions. It does no one any intellectual honor to engage in uncritical group think.

On the other hand, you might want to learn a bit more before you hold forth about the El Paso team. The Ysleta situation in El Paso is questionable, at best. As for the El Paso team, one might note that this team has the Texas state (UIL-4A) champion in Social Studies and in Current Issues & Events. It also has two of the best math students in the state, and is a demonstrably superior academic team in all respects.

Again, I have no brief in the NAQT/NAC dispute. My impression of the QUN website is that it is cheesy. But I can gaurantee that the level of reasoning on this subject here is *not* of college level, a reasonable goal to which the young people here might aspire.
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Post by Matt Weiner »

By arguing that the tournament is legitimate, you imply that other tournaments (NAQT in this case) which produced vastly different results are illegitimate. Holland Hall can't be both the best and 20th best team in the country. There is a lot more than personal preference at work here.

I'd like you to explain why more than half of the questions which Chip himself chose as emblematic of his tournament and of the performance of the top teams were non-academic material instead of insulting people's educational backgrounds.
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Post by Romero »

Jmh, please give me your email...I will be happy to extrapolate.

I have unique insight into Texas Quiz Bowl :grin:

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Post by jmh »

I did not question anyone's educational background. I questioned (and still do question) the level of analysis in this forum.

As I said, I have no brief in the questions dispute. I was asking for--and am beginning to see emerge--a genuine question by question analysis. I know questions are not always released. But it should be possible to take a random sample of questions from various sources to which we have access and do a reasoned debate over their appropriateness as a whole. For example, does NAQT not have sports questions? Significance is domain specific--John Wooden is quite significant in sports history (and I personally despise college sports)--so the question becomes, can you demonstrate that sports is included inappropriately in one tournament and excluded appropriately in another one?

By the way, I also criticize some of the questions named on the QUN website, e.g., Chris Allburg--but at the start of this section of the thread, this was mixed with Philip Glass, Mrs. Dalloway, & Paul Robeson. Ol' Man River by Robeson is a quite significant piece of American cultural history, for both musical and political-social reasons, and belongs in anyone's list of facts to know in this domain. It was this blending of plausible criticisms and blanket statements to which I originally drew attention.

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Post by Romero »

jmh, please list your email

or email me [email protected]
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Post by Mr. Kwalter »

The fact that Joe notes that Paul Robeson's Ol' Man River "Belongs in anyone's list of facts to know" is very telling, as that is exactly what one needs to study for Chip's tournament: A list of facts. To some extent, all quizbowl relies on facts of one kind or another, but different formats present those facts in very disparate manners.

I am surprised that nobody has brought up issues such as tossup length and pyramidality yet over the course of this discussion. The issue with Chip's questions is not just their content, it's that even if they were of a more academic nature, they would still not adequately test the knowledge of the participants. Both NAQT and PACE pride themselves on formats that reward thorough knowledge of more academic subjects than are covered by Chip's tournaments, which is a big explanation of why their results are more consistent. Anyone should feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I would say tossups written by NAQT or PACE tend to range from 4-8 lines long, while Chip's tossups can be as low as one line long and rarely extend longer than three or four lines. NAQT and PACE are also dedicated to providing tossups that are structured in such a way that those with more thorough, genuine knowledge of the subjects in question are rewarded, and this (ideally) leads to "speed" being tied more to how much you know than how fast you can press a button.

What Chip presents to teams is a weekend package in which the teams get to go live in dorms or stay in hotels, have time to see the sights and play matches that feel like game shows. If I remember correctly, teams play four prelim matches over several days then go on to single elimination playoffs. At HSNCT teams were offered open practice matches friday evening, 10 prelim matches saturday, then playoffs for those that broke and open consolation matches for those who didn't sunday. Clearly the experiences are very different, and each team has a right to its own opinion. I certainly don't speak for NAQT or PACE here, but if what Chip offers is what the team is looking for, then more power to them, but if what the team wants is a competition that is about who has the most complete knowledge of the subjects being asked, then I contend Chip's tournament is not the choice to make.
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Post by BloodMeridian »

jmh wrote: As for the El Paso team, one might note that this team has the Texas state (UIL-4A) champion in Social Studies and in Current Issues & Events. It also has two of the best math students in the state, and is a demonstrably superior academic team in all respects.
Would you like to cite SAT scores, perfect attendance, or the honorable mention your alternate got in the 2nd grade science fair.

The class of accomplishments you listed can be cited by ANY team. Your "demonstrably superior academic team in all respects" lost to a team which finished next to last in a real tournament. Your demonstration of prowess amounts to NAC serendipity.

I hear there are other available tournaments in Texas. Perhaps you would like to attend one of them and demonstrate your academic team's skills.
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Post by Romero »

One reason I wanted an email for El Paso is to encourage them to come to some of the Texas tournaments.

I believe Blood is a bit too critical of El Paso, who might fare well against the more established Texas programs (St. Johns, Cistercian, etc). Though we don't know since we have no real medium for comparison. I do agree that jmh was a bit too liberal with his lofty claims.

:chip: alluded to the number of Texas teams who participate in NAC, including 8 who did not attend one of the many NAQT events we ran last year. The Texas Quiz Bowl Alliance hosts a number of competitions in various locations each year. We always host in Houston, Dallas, and Austin and are always looking for new locations. It would be nice to see El Paso and the other 8 teams give our events a try.

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Post by The Time Keeper »

Who is this BloodMeridian, why is his email [email protected] and why did he post from the same IP address that you did? Basically what I'm trying to say is please tell me you didn't invent an alter-ego just to bash this guy.

Edit: Resulting mini-flamewar resulting from this discovery surgically removed from this thread
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Post by First Chairman »

jmh wrote: As I said, I have no brief in the questions dispute. I was asking for--and am beginning to see emerge--a genuine question by question analysis. I know questions are not always released. But it should be possible to take a random sample of questions from various sources to which we have access and do a reasoned debate over their appropriateness as a whole.
I'm not sure if one can truly do a scientific analysis without actually purchasing questions from all the sources. But if you want to look at Chip's Twenty Question set, you can note whether those questions are pyramidal. Granted, this sample is not at all representative of the structure of his standard four-quarter matches, but if this is his starting material, then you can go from there.

I'm also confused on what you might desire with an analysis. Many of us over the years have analyzed and compared :chip: 's questions with others that have been written in the college circuit. Many times we have found that many questions used in QU sets were plagiarized from available packets written by college-run organizations. I certainly cannot tell you how QU sets are broken down with respect to an curricular distribution whereas you can ascertain one for NAQT's and PACE's packets.
For example, does NAQT not have sports questions? Significance is domain specific--John Wooden is quite significant in sports history (and I personally despise college sports)--so the question becomes, can you demonstrate that sports is included inappropriately in one tournament and excluded appropriately in another one?

By the way, I also criticize some of the questions named on the QUN website, e.g., Chris Allburg--but at the start of this section of the thread, this was mixed with Philip Glass, Mrs. Dalloway, & Paul Robeson. Ol' Man River by Robeson is a quite significant piece of American cultural history, for both musical and political-social reasons, and belongs in anyone's list of facts to know in this domain. It was this blending of plausible criticisms and blanket statements to which I originally drew attention.
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Without repeating what others have previously noted in their critiques, the frustration is about whether many of these items that are considered significant are truly academic. I personally don't mind a couple of pop culture references, but to have a bonus set of 4 questions based on meta-knowledge playing a role in how a team is thus judged against its peers... that's ridiculous to ascribe that set as "academic" knowledge. "I want your job, Chip" is not on par with "You're fired" in popular culture.

I won't say that Chip and his staff are completely incapable of writing academically significant questions... they can do that. On the other hand, I also agree that it's not their goal to produce an academically rigorous test of knowledge as much as they want to produce an entertaining game.

BTW: I will note that in the last couple of years Chip would like to remark on the highest-scoring games at the NAC. He usually likes to list the games where teams break 500 points, and when teams average 400+. I've noticed this year's summary (and last year's) excluded mentions of these scoring mileposts.
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Auburn averaged the highest in prelims at Chicago, and I don't think their avg. was over 400. For some reason, the number 360ish sticks in my head...help us out, Colleen?
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Post by prewitt81 »

Chip Beall wrote:Congratulations to Coach Ben Dillon who, by the way, gets credit for this year's massive NAC rulebook revision.
(emphasis mine)

Any idea what this is in reference to?
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Post by BroNi »

Keep in mind as you continue on this thread, the preliminary games at NAC were abridged versions of the games played in previous years. Each quarter (except the 60 second round) was somewhat shortened in order to complete a game in 30 minutes instead of 45. This was done so that each team could play 6 games instead of 4. The playoff games were the regular length.
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Post by First Chairman »

BroNi wrote:Keep in mind as you continue on this thread, the preliminary games at NAC were abridged versions of the games played in previous years. Each quarter (except the 60 second round) was somewhat shortened in order to complete a game in 30 minutes instead of 45. This was done so that each team could play 6 games instead of 4. The playoff games were the regular length.
That's something I didn't know about. How much shorter were these games (in terms of questions heard)?

I also point the statistical thing out because last year's summary also did not list any teams scoring 500+, and that was presumably before the new 6 prelim format. That means no one will ever approach 635 points scored (one team) again, I suppose.
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Post by prewitt81 »

http://www.qunlimited.com/rules.htm wrote:1. The Questions Unlimited Rules as described above can be used into two formats: unabridged (designed for games to be scheduled 45 minutes apart) and abridged (30 minutes apart).

2. In the unabridged format, the 1st Quarter has 16 tossups, the 2nd Quarter has 8 tossups feeding into 4 bonus categories, the 3rd Quarter has 4 sixty-second categories, and the 4th Quarter has 20 tossups.

3. In the abridged format, the 1st Quarter has 12 tossups, the 2nd Quarter has 6 tossups feeding into 3 bonus categories, the 3rd Quarter has 4 sixty-second categories, and the 4th Quarter has 14 tossups.

4. In the abridged format, all first- and second-quarter tossups are worth 10 points; fourth-quarter tossups are worth 20 points.
So this was the big rewrite?
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Post by jrbarry »

I have heard NAC questions recently, at least from 2002, 2003, and 2004 nationals. They do not resemble NAC questions from the 1990s or the 1980s much at all. (I also attended the NAC in 1988 and 1989 and 1995).

Major differences I have observed. (I am observing ONLY NAC questions and not other QU sets here.)

1. Very few confused wordings or "give a definition type" tossups or tossups that require explanations as answers are used now as compared ot the past (pre-2002 fpor my purposes).

2. Less of what I call CRAP (non-academic) questions appear in the NAC these days. BUt, yes, it is still there.

3. No misleading tossups anymore, or at least I did not hear even one for three years.

I cannot address the lifting/stealing of questions by questionwriters. I have heards so many questions in 25+ years of this activity that they all start to sound similar after awhile.

The biggest drawback of attending the NAC is the cost, $150 per player, which is pretty high. But I like Chips' schedule over 4 days which makes the trip special.

As for my teams in the future, who knows. But we are always better prepared to play NAQT-style pyramid tossups as that is what we do all year long in practice and in our local/state competitions.

I will say this: this year is the first time I can remember taking my team to two nationals (NAQT and PACE) where we saw so many of the same teams. I am not sure whether I will do that again. In my way of thinking, I see little point in it. But I am not ruling out attending BOTH PACE and NAQT. I will need to ponder that decision more.
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Post by Ben Dillon »

Yes, Chip lists me as responsible for the "massive" rules rewrite.

I've pestered him on and off over the years that the rules were too jumbled because he intermixed the four-quarter QU format too much with the rules for the NAC, so I sat down and tried to separate them so that a tournament director could use his format without having to sift through the NAC stuff.

In the process, I suggested several rewordings of rules to make them clearer (not sure I can remember any of them, but there were a lot of them). Chip ended up taking 95% of what I did, including my suggestion to call it "abridged versus unabridged".

I have found Chip to be very personable and a stand-up guy in my dealings with him. I know many people on the board think he plays "favorites" with teams, but, despite how long I've known him and the good relationship I have with him, he was still ready to forfeit my team in the playoffs this year because he wanted to play some games Sunday night when my team was at Six Flags. (He was outvoted by the other moderators.)

I'd like to transform this discussion: Do we perceive that quiz bowl might, let's say ten years down the road, become unified under one format? If so, what might that format be? Has Chip alienated so many of you (the favoritism charge, the plagiarism charge, etc.) that no unification could occur as long as he's around? Is there room for non-pyramidal tossups in a unified format?

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Post by jewtemplar »

So long as there exist people determined to profit from a game with one format, and other people determined to work hard facilitating a circuit in another radically different format, both formats will continue to exist. Chip can't draw a large enough field unless he has a sufficiently "exciting" format, and he probably has no interest in changing his anyway. The raison d'etre of PACE and NAQT (roughly) is to provide a format with better content and more reliable results. I don't see how one can win.
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Post by Matt Weiner »

Ben Dillon wrote:Is there room for non-pyramidal tossups in a unified format?
I certainly hope not.
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Post by First Chairman »

I can't see a unified format in 10 years without one of the major corporate players in academic quiz bowl folding. Even so, it's not going to be easy given the proliferation of other formats. In short, we are stuck with the current system and so it goes.
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

As long as some teams find a style where less knowledge is needed to have a good team/game/tournament, there will always be Chip's NAC. As long as some teams enjoy a more academic game, NAQT and PACE will exist. The two can probably not coexist peacefully, as those that support both sides are incredibly vocal and passionate about their stand.

The only way I can see both coexisting peacefully is if NAC is relegated to a sub-academic status (note: a self-aware, advertised status, not one exclaimed by NAQT fans), and it is understood to be a sort of minor leagues, etc., to NAQT.

NAQT is growing too quickly to be taken down in the near future, and Chip is too eager to change his rules from year to year to cater to 'his crowd,' the teams that enjoy a more exciting game (although listening to the NAQT podcasts, I don't believe NAC could possibly be more exciting), for anything to happen in the near future, barring an Enlightment of Renaissance proportions/governmental abolition of one side of the spectrum.
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Post by Romero »

Ben, consider yourself fortunate to not have been a victim to any of Chip's whims.

Just from my own experience and those of Texas teams of which I know first hand, there are 4 instances of blatant and arbitrary decisions that unfairly eliminated teams. Questions such as the Rutter bonus lend themselves to situations that inevitably lead to judgment calls. My hypothesis is such calls only feed into Chip's megalomania.

A number of concessions towards other formats have been made-- increase to 6 games and the rules changes you suggested. There are certain aspects of Chip events which folks like JR Barry favor--spread games to allow for sightseeing. (Though honestly I do not see how this can be a factor; if you are willing to stay 4 days at an NAQT location you get two full days to be a tourist.)

There are a number of teams who either do not know of anything beyond Chip or dislike academic formats and will continue to patronize NAC. However, there now also exist a sizable number of teams who will not attend tournaments run by Chip, but who avidly support academic formats. Perhaps if a Chip academic format were available they would consider attending. However as I have said before, I do not believe that QU is capable of producing questions that can satisfy this audience.

In short I agree with the chorus there will be no unification nor should there be. Each tournament serves a certain population as evidenced by its attendance. There is no need or reason for options to be limited. In the end, the schools will decide which tournaments are successful through their choices.

Ben, I am curious...have you ever attended a non-QU event?
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Post by jazzerpoet »

Chris, would you be willing to expound more on the instances in which Chip unfairly eliminated teams? Just curious. Thanks.
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Post by solonqb »

Word on the grapevine is that NAQT wants to keep the HSNCT in Chicago and work on increasing the number of teams. Maybe this will have some sort of effect on Chip's final phase, and is also meant to compete more strongly with him? Let us all hope so.
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Post by First Chairman »

jazzerpoet wrote:Chris, would you be willing to expound more on the instances in which Chip unfairly eliminated teams? Just curious. Thanks.
Well, this does not directly answer your question but may have some inferences. The fact that there are specific rules named for teams in QU's rules is somewhat telling (like, "what happened to warrant this particular rule change"). That being said, I like the clean-up of the rules.

Admittedly speaking in generalizations, I think other instances in which :chip: unfairly eliminated or ruled against teams stems from the fact that he did not allow for the application of his appeal procedure. Usually this involves a game in which :chip: was the moderator, and as QU Exec Dir and President, he would not allow the appeal to be heard by his "Supreme Court" because... well, he has final authority on the protest anyway. (Yeah, I see the unfairness of that process since Chip does not have a de facto conflict of interest, he does have his influence on the outcome of a game.)

I'm sure if you want specifics, a number of us can come up with a list of coaches who have been thoroughly disgusted with actions taken against them by :chip: .
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