2016 HSNCT discussion

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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue May 31, 2016 9:20 pm

2016 HSNCT round 16 wrote:Several of this painter's works, such as Groundhog Day, depict the Kuerner family. In 1986 Leonard Andrews bought most of this artist's set of paintings that included Braids, The Prussian, and Letting Her Hair Down, and depicted his (*) neighbor's nurse. This artist also painted a polio-stricken girl in a pink dress on a field. For 10 points—name the creator of paintings of Helga Testorf, and of Christina's World.
In general, NAQT does not identify the authors of specific questions (but we're glad you and your teammates enjoyed the Alabama tossup!)
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by 100% Clean Comedian Dan Nainan » Tue May 31, 2016 9:23 pm

bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
2016 HSNCT round 16 wrote:Several of this painter's works, such as Groundhog Day, depict the Kuerner family. In 1986 Leonard Andrews bought most of this artist's set of paintings that included Braids, The Prussian, and Letting Her Hair Down, and depicted his (*) neighbor's nurse. This artist also painted a polio-stricken girl in a pink dress on a field. For 10 points—name the creator of paintings of Helga Testorf, and of Christina's World.
In general, NAQT does not identify the authors of specific questions (but we're glad you and your teammates enjoyed the Alabama tossup!)
Fair enough. Said person should know the lead-in was wonderful. Thanks.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Banned Tiny Toon Adventures Episode » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:34 am

who's the :capybara: ing idiot who let in a tossup on prolactin
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Corry » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:27 am

cwest123 wrote: 2) Who wrote the "Alabama" tossup in round 20? My team thoroughly enjoyed it in our consolation match!
Well, I'm willing to admit I edited it. Glad you enjoyed it!
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by The Ununtiable Twine » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:46 am

vinteuil wrote:
bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
swimmerstar wrote:Could I see the tossups on New Orleans and quintic?
2016 HSNCT round 21 wrote:"Bring radicals" are defined in terms of zeroes of these expressions, and are used to write other zeroes of them. Because the splitting fields associated with these expressions do not always have solvable (*) Galois groups, the Abel-Ruffini theorem states that there is no general formula to solve this kind of polynomial. For 10 points—give the term for a polynomial whose degree is 5.

answer: quintic polynomials (or quintics; accept quintic equations; accept fifth-degree polynomial or polynomial of degree 5 before "degree")
Do math contest people learn about the Galois theory stuff in this question? Or is this just really really really hard for a high school question? (I don't think Bring radicals showed up in any of the algebra or number theory material I've studied!)
Agreed. This will have a fairly low power rate when the stats come out, I'm sure. I don't know how you can expect a high schooler to be able to produce the answer before hearing "solvable Galois groups". I think the 15 rate would have gone up significantly if the power marker were moved right before "Abel-Ruffini", but as it stands I would be impressed if two players powered this.

I like to play questions in my head while I'm scorekeeping, naturally. I'll take you through my thought process as I heard this tossup.

"Bring radicals" are defined in terms of zeroes of these expressions...hmmm, some kind of function, probably a polynomial. Worth a buzz? Nope, never heard of these. It could be some other kind of function.

Because the splitting fields of these...hmmm, so we're talking about functions that could be tossed up at HSNCT and suddenly we're talking about field theory, so combined with my previous thought, this is probably some sort of polynomial.

...these expressions do not always have solvable...ok definitely a polynomial, wait is this talking about those unsolvable polynomials we discussed in my intro algebra class?

...Galois groups...oh yes, it's probably just a quintic polynomial now that you mention it, let me wait just one second to make sure. (I could have made an easy buzz here theoretically but still not been awarded power. I feel like you should reward any high schooler that knows anything at all about Galois theory with 15.)

...Abel-Ruffini...yup, of course. Buzz.

Anyway, I will predict that this was powered exactly zero times, although I could be wrong. The whole "bring radicals" thing could be a quizbowl stock clue I'm unfamiliar with. Certainly a kid could have heard the word "solvable" and reached for it to 15, but I'm going to take a risk and say that didn't happen because the word "solvable" is the first time I even thought about buzzing with quintic polynomials and I know a lot.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by xz124 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:33 pm

Can I see the Rajon Rondo tossup?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by bluejay123 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:24 pm

Can I see the Pre-Raphaelite brotherhood tossup?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:07 pm

2016 HSNCT round 22 wrote:This man was suspended in 2015 for using an anti-gay slur against referee Bill Kennedy. With Dwight Powell, this man was traded to the Mavericks in 2014, though he was held out of playoff games after clashing with Rick Carlisle, and then signed with Sacramento. He won a title in 2008 passing to (*) Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. For 10 points—name this point guard, who twice led the NBA in assists with the Boston Celtics.
2016 HSNCT round 15 wrote:An artist in this movement painted a blue serpent menacing a nude, rear-facing Andromeda in part of the Perseus Cycle. Another of its artists showed a young Jesus kissing Mary's cheek in a workroom in Christ in the (*) House of His Parents, and painted flowers floating by a drowning Ophelia. Edward Burne-Jones and John Everett Millais belonged to—for 10 points—what 19th-century British "brotherhood"?

answer: Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood (or Pre-Raphaelites or PRB)
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by schen » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:31 pm

Could I please see the tossup on Nevermind?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:34 pm

2016 HSNCT round 1 wrote:Spencer Elden appeared on the cover of this album, which concludes with the hidden track "Endless, Nameless." This album was produced by Butch Vig. Its title follows the phrase "oh well, whatever" in a song whose opening line is "load up on guns, bring your friends." This album included the singles (*) "In Bloom," "Lithium," and "Come As You Are." "Smells Like Teen Spirit" also appears on—for 10 points—what 1991 album, by Nirvana?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Jack G » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:45 pm

Can I see the tossup on 10 Cloverfield Lane?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Chef Curry » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:41 pm

Can I please see the tossups on the Spanish-American War and Banquo?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by bluejay123 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:08 pm

Also may I please see the tossup on the Vietnam War and being amphoteric?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Steeve Ho You Fat » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:49 pm

Unicolored Jay wrote:As a reader, while I definitely did notice the replacement of "the" for "this" in the giveaways and bonus parts, I was so used to saying "this" that I kept doing so throughout the weekend anyway. Did anyone else do the same?
I did this frequently; I also several times stumbled because I was expecting to see a "this", instead saw a "the", and thought the the sentence structure must be different and I had parsed it wrong.

This was not a good idea and I hope you don't do it again. On the whole though, I appreciated the moderator empathy, with relatively few tongue twisters and pronunciation guides that were generally correct and easy to skip if you didn't need them.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Amizda Calyx » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:36 am

Bubalus Period wrote:who's the :capybara: ing idiot who let in a tossup on prolactin
There was a tossup on prolactin??? With what high school/early college clues? Dopamine, anterior pit, oxytocin and...? Please tell me metamorphosis and histology stuff weren't clues...
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:47 am

2016 HSNCT round 13 wrote:A bloody earring in this film leads its protagonist to believe Megan was murdered. A vat of perchloric acid is kept by Howard for unclear reasons in this film, whose protagonist drives to Houston after knocking over a (*) mailbox labeled with the film's title. Mary Elizabeth Winstead and John Goodman live in a bunker in—for 10 points—what 2016 film, which producer J. J. Abrams set in the aftermath of an alien invasion?

answer: 10 Cloverfield Lane (do not accept or prompt on "Cloverfield")
2016 HSNCT round 21 wrote:During this war, a scandal involving rations known as "embalmed beef" forced Secretary of War Russell Alger to resign. Prior to this war, controversy arose over the "Reconcentration" policy of Valeriano Weyler, a colonial administrator called "the Butcher." Leonard (*) Wood commanded the Rough Riders in—for 10 points—what war, which began after "yellow journalism" sensationalized events in Cuba?
2016 HSNCT round 1 wrote:This character wonders what "grain will grow" from the "seeds of time" while speaking to mysterious bearded figures. In a prophetic vision, this man follows a procession of "eight kings." At Forres, he worries that a friend has "played most foully" to obtain the titles of "king, (*) Cawdor, Glamis, all, / as the weird women promised." Fleance is the son of—for 10 points—what Scottish lord, who is murdered in Shakespeare's Macbeth?
2016 HSNCT round 11 wrote:During this war, Australian forces defended a base codenamed "Coral." This war's Operation Junction City was a failed attempt to destroy an enemy HQ. In this war, rural populations were relocated via the Strategic Hamlet Program. After this war, millions of refugees known as (*) "boat people" fled to Western countries. The U.S. used the pesticide Agent Orange in—for 10 points—what war, against Communists in Southeast Asia?

answer: Vietnam War (accept Second Indochina War; accept Vietnam Conflict; prompt on "Indochina War" or "Indochinese War")
2016 HSNCT round 8 wrote:"Ion exchangers" that handle cations and anions simultaneously contain species with this property. The generic name for the anti-fungal drug Fungizone reflects this property. The oxides of zinc and aluminum have it, as do ions like bisulfate and bicarbonate that are (*) conjugate bases of diprotic acids. Ammonia and water both have—for 10 points—what property, in which a compound can act as either an acid or a base?

answer: amphoteric species or amphoterism (accept amphotericin B; accept amphiprotic before "Fungizone") [The generic name of Fungizone is Amphotericin.]
(the answer line above has been updated to reflect decisions made by our protest committee)
2016 HSNCT round 20 wrote:Henry Friesen discovered the human form of this 199-residue hormone. Its release is stimulated by thyrotropin-releasing hormone and vasoactive intestinal peptide. It is released at the time of the ovulatory LH surge and as a reaction to (*) suckling, while excessive levels of it can result in galactorrhea. For 10 points—name this hormone secreted by the anterior pituitary gland, which promotes lactation.

answer: prolactin (prompt on "PRL")
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Bloodwych » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:56 am

You probably don't have any conversion statistics, but prolactin seemed to me like the hardest answer line in the set. Even with it being in the playoff rounds.

Changing "this" to "the" was not a great idea. If you have played quizbowl long enough, you train yourself tune in whenever the word "this" identifies what is being asked about. This threw me off a little, and likely threw off someone playing the tournament at some point.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by ryanrosenberg » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:54 am

Bloodwych wrote:You probably don't have any conversion statistics, but prolactin seemed to me like the hardest answer line in the set. Even with it being in the playoff rounds.
That or Erving Goffman.

Could I see the tossup on "Haggadah"?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:20 am

2016 HSNCT round 20 wrote:This book prescribes two hand-washings, urchatz and rotzah. Maxwell House distributed many copies of this book as part of a campaign to publicize the fact that coffee is permitted on the holiday during which this book is read. This book contains the (*) Four Questions and the explanation of how matzah came to be, as part of the story of the Exodus from Egypt. For 10 points—name the book read at the Passover seder.

answer: Haggadah (accept Haggadot; prompt on answers referring to a text read on Passover or Pesach)
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by John Ketzkorn » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:43 pm

Toss-ups on The Last Battle??
Bonuses on Barbara Kingsolver???
NAQT are you trying to punish people for reading and studying the actual canon?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by msbg360 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:48 pm

Although the question content was fine, I was wondering the reasoning behind writing tossups on Jean Valjean's alter egos, the JFK assassination rifle and the Green Jacket at Augusta National. In the room that I was reading in, all three of these tossups resulted in negs or required several prompts while the player clearly demonstrated appropriate knowledge but simply struggled with coming up with the answer line. The answer lines did make the question more unique but overall it may have been more prudent to write tossups on Jean Valjean, the JFK assassination and Augusta National instead.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:52 pm

Joker wrote:Bonuses on Barbara Kingsolver???
NAQT are you trying to punish people for reading and studying the actual canon?
Axe-ually, The Poisonwood Bible is (or was) a common sight on high school reading lists. Live by the canon, die by the canon, I guess.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by bluejay123 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:28 pm

msbg360 wrote:Although the question content was fine, I was wondering the reasoning behind writing tossups on Jean Valjean's alter egos, the JFK assassination rifle and the Green Jacket at Augusta National.
Personally, I thought that the packet in whatever round the above questions were in was not the best; kinda seemed like trash to me, but...
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Cheynem » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:30 pm

I haven't seen the questions in mind, but I'm a little confused how you could have knowledge about say the JFK assassination or Augusta National but not figure out what objects are being described (assuming I guess the tossups said "object").
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by msbg360 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:51 pm

Cheynem wrote:I haven't seen the questions in mind, but I'm a little confused how you could have knowledge about say the JFK assassination or Augusta National but not figure out what objects are being described (assuming I guess the tossups said "object").
The neg on Augusta National green jackets was after a description of the first female members of the club and the player said Augusta National membership which showed clear knowledge of what the question was describing. The neg on JFK assassination was just rifle, and after repeated prompting they never said anything related to Kennedy, so it might just be a lack of knowledge there or they thought the question was asking for the exact model of the gun.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by 100% Clean Comedian Dan Nainan » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:19 pm

Could I see the "Philadelphia" TU? I remember powering it and thinking it seemed easy compared to the rest of the set.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by johnc » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:33 pm

Could you post the Peru tossup? I believe it was from round 15.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:06 pm

2016 HSNCT round 2 wrote:A dialect of English specific to this city uses the multipurpose noun "jawn." A gigantic colon is among the medical oddities exhibited at this city's Mutter Museum. Both the First and Second Banks of the U.S. operated from this city, which is at the confluence of the (*) Schuylkill and Delaware Rivers. The Liberty Bell and Independence Hall are in—for 10 points—what city, the most populous in Pennsylvania?
2016 HSNCT round 15 wrote:This city is the site of the Miraflores shopping district. This city surrounds the seaport of Callao, where merchants exported silver from the South American interior during the 17th century. This capital contains the oldest university in the Americas, the National University of San Marcos, of which (*) Mario Vargas Llosa is an alumnus. It was founded in 1535 by Francisco Pizarro. For 10 points—name the capital of Peru.

answer: Lima
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:26 pm

Joker wrote:Toss-ups on The Last Battle??
Bonuses on Barbara Kingsolver???
NAQT are you trying to punish people for reading and studying the actual canon?
The HSNCT category distribution, which has been posted publicly since last August, clearly states there will be five "Young Reader Literature" questions.

Barbara Kingsolver is widely assigned in high schools; the question asked for Kingsolver off of Animal, Vegetable, Miracle and The Bean Trees (the latter of which I was assigned in high school, as an anecdatum), then The Poisonwood Bible; the third asked for summer off of Prodigal Summer and "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day" (the latter of which I venture to guess you would call "the actual canon").

I took a look at the answer lines of the 193 questions that were in the set as "American Literature," "British Literature," "European Literature," "World Literature," and "Misc Literature" (the last of which means any kind of literature except myth, young adult, or religious lit). I found thirteen questions whose canonicality or academicity seem even a tiny bit subject to dispute (several of them only for reasons of difficulty):

Packet 1: Barbara Kingsolver / The Poisonwood Bible / summer
Packet 6: Erik Larson
Packet 9: The Heart is a Lonely Hunter / Carson McCullers / deafness
Packet 10: Terry Pratchett / Colleen McCullough / E. L. Doctorow (authors who passed away in 2015)
Packet 11: Infinite Jest
Packet 11: The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao / Dominican Republic / Junot Díaz
Packet 14: "The Cremation of Sam McGee" / Robert Service / Yukon Territory
Packet 17: Don DeLillo
Packet 18: How the Other Half Lives (canonical as history, unusual as literature)
Packet 19: Bernard Malamud
Packet 19: H. P. Lovecraft / Cthulhu / Miskatonic University
Packet 26: Philip K. Dick

Even if every single one of these is deemed "non-canonical," and we assume that's a bad thing, asking 180 questions about canonical material does not amount to "punish[ing] people for reading and studying the actual canon," merely not rewarding people for that as much or as purely as you might like. (Is the fact that there were 1,038 questions not about literature also punishment for reading and studying canonical works of literature?)

I don't have a problem with 7% of the literature answers being (perhaps, and at most) slightly unusual. None of these works or authors are obscure or unreasonable to expect high schoolers to have some familiarity with. Read them; you might enjoy them!
Last edited by jonah on Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:36 pm

msbg360 wrote:Although the question content was fine, I was wondering the reasoning behind writing tossups on Jean Valjean's alter egos, the JFK assassination rifle and the Green Jacket at Augusta National. In the room that I was reading in, all three of these tossups resulted in negs or required several prompts while the player clearly demonstrated appropriate knowledge but simply struggled with coming up with the answer line. The answer lines did make the question more unique but overall it may have been more prudent to write tossups on Jean Valjean, the JFK assassination and Augusta National instead.
The basic answer is that variety is the spice of life. Using new clues is one important way to achieve variety; asking about the same basic topic but in different forms is another, and in my opinion, both are valuable.
msbg360 wrote:
Cheynem wrote:I haven't seen the questions in mind, but I'm a little confused how you could have knowledge about say the JFK assassination or Augusta National but not figure out what objects are being described (assuming I guess the tossups said "object").
The neg on Augusta National green jackets was after a description of the first female members of the club and the player said Augusta National membership which showed clear knowledge of what the question was describing.
Here's the question:
In 2012 these items were given to Darla Moore and Condoleezza Rice, the first female members of the group that distributes them. The only one kept outside the U.S. is owned by South Africa's Gary Player. In 2016 (*) Danny Willett donned one of these pieces of clothing with the help of Jordan Spieth. Members of Augusta National Golf Club wear—for 10 points—what piece of clothing that is awarded to the Masters champion?

answer: (Augusta National) green jackets (or green sport(s) coats; accept green blazers; prompt on "jacket(s)" or "sport(s) coat" or "blazer(s)")
I would say that calling "membership" an "item" is a stretch, although I suppose it is not outside the realm of how quiz bowl might use the phrase "this item." I don't know where the buzz was, but once we get to talk of keeping them outside the U.S. "membership" just doesn't seem to fit well, and even less so for "these pieces of clothing." Furthermore, the word "members" appears quite early. Perhaps answers referring to membership should have been promptable before "members"; after "outside" or so, I would say such answers do not display clear knowledge.
msbg360 wrote:The neg on JFK assassination was just rifle, and after repeated prompting they never said anything related to Kennedy, so it might just be a lack of knowledge there or they thought the question was asking for the exact model of the gun.
Perhaps this question would have been a good use for rule I.4.b's implication that we could have prompt directives like "prompt by asking 'what was it used for?' on 'rifle'." If I recall correctly, this protest reached us but was mooted.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:38 pm

I don't pay much attention to literature distros, but Narnia seems about as canonical as you can get for children's/YA.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Maury Island incident » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:07 pm

I'm 95% sure I negged the "green jackets" tossup with something along the lines of "Augusta National membership cards" on Darla Moore and Condoleezza Rice. I think the simplest fix for that tossup, which should've at least prevented my neg, would have been to reorder the leadin to say "These objects were given to the first female members of the group that distributes them, Darla Moore and Condoleezza Rice."
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by John Ketzkorn » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:43 pm

jonah wrote:
I don't have a problem with 7% of the literature answers being (perhaps, and at most) slightly unusual. None of these works or authors are obscure or unreasonable to expect high schoolers to have some familiarity with. Read them; you might enjoy them!
Let's not forget the Toss-up on London where all the clues come from the following works:
Philip Reeve's Mortal Engines
Jonathan Stroud's Bartimaeus cycle
Susana Clarke's Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell
Then the giveaway is a Harry Potter clue.

Tossing up people like Don DeLillo, Philip K. Dick, Malamud, David Foster Wallace, and Junot Diaz are fine because they at least come up at a small frequency in high school quiz bowl, and their work has solid scholarly merit, so you can be expected to know them. Putting bonuses on Kingsolver and Service (who barely come up in quiz bowl), and toss-ups on Erik Larson, How the Other Half Lives (which isn't even literature??) and the London question above in the literature distribution is not okay. It's already bad enough that Literature specialist are being punished (or at the very least not rewarded as much as they should be) by not always hearing all 24 questions, but you further punish (or not reward as much as you should) players who took the time to read or study works (some that probably aren't as fun) by polluting the literature category with cute toss-ups on John Green or C.S. Lewis. Sometimes you only hear at most two or three literature toss-ups (which is already disappointing), and if one of those literature toss-ups is Young Adult Fiction or Kitty lit, it's extremely frustrating (especially to watch the other team get it because they were a fan of a series in 5th grade).

If you want to toss-up John Green, C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkein, etc., that's fine. I'm a firm believer that they don't belong in literature. If people are reading those works, they're almost exclusively doing it for the book's entertainment value, which puts it on equal footing with trash.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by AKKOLADE » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:44 pm

Nobody calls amphotericin B by its brand name any more, unless they've been practicing medicine forever. I've taken two courses on antibiotics and I don't remember ever discussing that brand name.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by AKKOLADE » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:48 pm

Kitty lit is really cute. Puppy lit is almost as cute.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:25 pm

Joker wrote:Let's not forget the Toss-up on London where all the clues come from the following works:
Philip Reeve's Mortal Engines
Jonathan Stroud's Bartimaeus cycle
Susana Clarke's Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell
Then the giveaway is a Harry Potter clue.
That was in the Young Reader Literature category, which I stated I was not counting among the 193 questions I examined.
Joker wrote:Putting bonuses on Kingsolver and Service (who barely come up in quiz bowl), and toss-ups on Erik Larson, How the Other Half Lives (which isn't even literature??) and the London question above in the literature distribution is not okay.
I do not believe that "does this come up in quiz bowl?" (or "does this come up in quiz bowl more than 'barely'?") is the sole relevant question for determining whether a topic is appropriate to ask about. (Other such questions include, but are not limited to, "will people know this?", "is this interesting?", "is this important?", and "is it possible to write a pyramidal tossup or an easy-medium-hard bonus about this?". I believe all the questions you cited satisfy all of the questions I just mentioned.)

How the Other Half Lives is photojournalism, a subset of nonfiction, which NAQT considers to be literature when it is written literarily (which HtOHL is).
Joker wrote:It's already bad enough that Literature specialist are being punished (or at the very least not rewarded as much as they should be) by not always hearing all 24 questions
This has nothing to do with literature. To a rough approximation, all categories are equally likely to be in the unheard portion of a packet. More precisely, literature is no more or less privileged than any other category in its proportion to the whole set.

A similar argument would suggest that when a bonus is not read because a tossup was not answered, that too is unfair to the specialists in the category of the unheard bonus. I suppose "fairness" in this context is subjective, but that's just how quiz bowl works.
Joker wrote:you further punish (or not reward as much as you should) players who took the time to read or study works (some that probably aren't as fun) by polluting the literature category with cute toss-ups on John Green or C.S. Lewis. Sometimes you only hear at most two or three literature toss-ups (which is already disappointing), and if one of those literature toss-ups is Young Adult Fiction or Kitty lit, it's extremely frustrating (especially to watch the other team get it because they were a fan of a series in 5th grade).
Why is the grade relevant? Everyone gets tossups on things that they were fans of at various ages.
Joker wrote:If you want to toss-up John Green, C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkein, etc., that's fine. I'm a firm believer that they don't belong in literature.
That's fine; clearly, the NAQT distribution reflects a firm belief otherwise.
Joker wrote:If people are reading those works, they're almost exclusively doing it for the book's entertainment value, which puts it on equal footing with trash.
I can't prove this, but I suspect that most reading, period, is done for entertainment value. There are other good reasons to read, such as cultural appreciation, but they don't exclude reading young adult literature, since after all that too is part of culture (and, I claim subjectively, increasingly so!). If you don't find a book entertaining, don't read it. Or if you want points on questions about it, read it anyway. (Do you find every "canonical" book you read entertaining?) There's no reason you can't read young adult literature; it should not have been a surprise that it would come up at the HSNCT.

Speaking only for myself, I don't really care whether NAQT or any other organization asks questions about young adult literature, I merely reject the idea that it is somehow unfair or unreasonable to do so.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by johnc » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:38 pm

Do you mind also posting the Ted Cruz dropping out tossup? I believe it was round 19. Thanks!
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by John Ketzkorn » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:58 pm

jonah wrote:
Joker wrote:
Speaking only for myself, I don't really care whether NAQT or any other organization asks questions about young adult literature, I merely reject the idea that it is somehow unfair or unreasonable to do so.
I only mentioned grade because if an 8 year old is capable of powering toss-ups in the "literature" distribution over me the toss-up is probably lacking scholarly merit.

I would also like to emphasize that I don't think we should throw out these questions, i'm fine with having toss-ups on them. However, kitty lit, young adult fiction and all trash lit should be moved to its proper category of trash. I disagree with the decision to put journalism in the literature distribution, but at least a reasonable argument can be made to keep it there.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:47 pm

Joker wrote: only mentioned grade because if an 8 year old is capable of powering toss-ups in the "literature" distribution over me the toss-up is probably lacking scholarly merit.
I guess no knowledge matters if you gain it while you're young? Man, I should never get an astronomy question from those "explore the universe" computer programs I played as a kid again!

Seriously, this argument is terrible and I hope your username is meant to indicate your post's sincerity in this case. There is nothing wrong with asking questions on books that people may have read - and may have, in fact, recently read! Just because they're not going to come up when you're studying the umpteenth ACF Fall or Regionals set does not mean they are not appropriate literature topics for a high school tournament. The only real issue is if these are getting under-converted systematically, which has been the case in the past for some NAQT YAL, but I haven't seen numbers on this year's set yet.

Whether these tossups belong under "pop culture" or "literature" probably should have to do with the context in which people encounter them, but if they're being taught in high school classrooms then I don't see a problem.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:18 pm

Hey, folks, I'm both a new English teacher and NAQT's Young Reader Literature editor for levels 3 and up.

When I was a young player, I hated seeing YA Lit in quizbowl. This is because I was a literature snob and also something of an idiot, thanks to being young. I wasn't old enough to consider multiple perspectives on the issue - I was right, NAQT was wrong, YA lit was terrible, and that was that. I had not particularly experienced good YA Literature and therefore, in my adolescent brain, it did not exist.

To be fair, I do even now think there were problems with NAQT's handling of YA literature. I don't think it had an assigned spot in the distro, which meant it sometimes became overrepresented, and it was often written on books that simply were not widely read. Having a specific distribution for it means that it stays within its limits - it has a place in the set, as it does in the classroom, but it does not become the focus, as quizbowl (rightly, I think) tends to focus largely on the higher levels of academic study that you can access in school.

As the YRL editor, I've been actively on the watch for those questions on things people don't read. I've paid attention to what's actually in classrooms and what I've seen cited in my studies of YA lit worthy of teaching, which was an entire course in my teacher prep program and featured in subsequent courses, and if something comes through my editing queue that I'm not familiar with from any of those sources, I check things like Goodreads to make sure it isn't too niche or too old (some YA books age well, others don't, just like "adult" books).

YA lit is becoming huge in middle school classrooms as a better way to teach concepts like plot and character development with fewer barriers to understanding, and it's trending towards greater inclusion in high school classrooms as well (someone in one of my classes did a project on pairing YA texts with "classic" novels on similar themes, which was awesome). If you like, you can think of YA Literature as the Algebra I of English - some people can understand things at higher levels without needing to spend much time on it, but it lays a foundation that makes all more complicated learning possible.

Reading books is good for you, no matter what level you're comfortable reading. I wouldn't expand the YA distro, but I think 5 questions in a set with 24+ packets is eminently reasonable. Someone at this tournament may have felt rewarded for reading a book for the first time in their career, and as an educator, I think that chance is well worth it.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:27 pm

AKKOLADE wrote:Nobody calls amphotericin B by its brand name any more, unless they've been practicing medicine forever. I've taken two courses on antibiotics and I don't remember ever discussing that brand name.
Fred's right about this. Also that prolactin question is virtually impossible to power - no one knows who discovered prolactin, and VIP and TRH do other things so that clue isn't very uniquely identifying at all.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by AKKOLADE » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:40 pm

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:
AKKOLADE wrote:Nobody calls amphotericin B by its brand name any more, unless they've been practicing medicine forever. I've taken two courses on antibiotics and I don't remember ever discussing that brand name.
Fred's right about this. Also that prolactin question is virtually impossible to power - no one knows who discovered prolactin, and VIP and TRH do other things so that clue isn't very uniquely identifying at all.
To follow up, my wife*, who's an infectious disease physician, acted like I was a crazy person when I mentioned this clue. More than usual, that is.

*WIFE
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:20 pm

2016 HSNCT round 19 wrote:This political event featured a speech describing "two young kids" handing a man envelopes of change from their lemonade stand, and thanking "my mom, the prayer warrior." During this event, its central figure elbowed his (*) wife in the face after acknowledging his running mate, Carly Fiorina. A loss in the 2016 Indiana primary led to—for 10 points—what announcement by a Texas senator who was a Republican primary candidate?

answer: Ted Cruz suspending his presidential(-nomination) campaign (or Ted Cruz dropping out of the race; accept all answers containing Ted Cruz or Rafael Edward Cruz and the notion of ending or withdrawing from the campaign or conceding; prompt on partial answers)
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Arkangel de la Muerte » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:51 am

What were the answerlines to all the math questions?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by That DCC guy » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:13 pm

Can I see that Boudicca tossup and the joint chief of staffs tossup?
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:17 pm

2016 HSNCT round 25 wrote:This ruler was angered by the financial mismanagement of Decianus Catus. Many of the Trinovantes joined this ruler's army after the construction of a temple to the "divine Claudius" at Colchester. The Battle of Watling Street resulted in the suicide of this (*) woman, the widow of Prasutagus. In AD 61 the city of Londinium was sacked by—for 10 points—what Iceni queen, who rebelled against Roman rule in Britain?
2016 HSNCT round 25 wrote:This group lost some of its authority under the 1986 Goldwater-Nichols Act, which was supported by its former leader David Jones. John Shalikashvili, who led this group under Bill Clinton, was its first foreign-born leader. In 1949 (*) Omar Bradley became this group's first chairman. Marine Corps general Joseph Dunford currently chairs—for 10 points—what group of senior U.S. military leaders?

answer: Joint Chiefs of Staff (prompt on "JCS" or "Chiefs")
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Cherrybell Miramonte » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:21 pm

bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
2016 HSNCT round 2 wrote:A dialect of English specific to this city uses the multipurpose noun "jawn."
This clue is incredible, it made my day when I heard it
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Corry » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:32 pm

Magtymguly Pyragy wrote:
bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
2016 HSNCT round 2 wrote:A dialect of English specific to this city uses the multipurpose noun "jawn."
This clue is incredible, it made my day when I heard it
Happy to hear you liked it! Although credit really goes to the writer of this question, whom I suppose I can't name- this question was one of the few geo tossups in the HSNCT that I didn't edit intensely.
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:44 pm

Arkangel de la Muerte wrote:What were the answerlines to all the math questions?
In general, we do not plan to post category-wide sections of text like this. Please let us know if you have concerns about a particular question or questions (even, or perhaps especially, generic information like "I was confused by the math tossup in round 14").
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Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by bluejay123 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:25 pm

Can I see the bonuses on esters?
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