2016 HSNCT discussion

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
User avatar
Important Bird Area
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 6113
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:33 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area »

2016 HSNCT round 14 wrote:For 10 points each—name these smelly compounds and classes of compounds:

A. This carboxylic acid with six carbons is partly responsible for the odor of barnyard animals like sheep and goats.

answer: hexanoic [HECK-suh-NOH-ik] acid (or caproic acid or C5H11COOH)

B. Alcohols react with carboxylic acids to yield this class of chemicals, responsible for the aromas of bananas and strawberries.

answer: esters

C. Pine tree resins contain many of these compounds, mostly made of a bonded chain of isoprene subunits.

answer: terpenes (or terpenoids; prompt on "isoprenoids")
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF

"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
bluejay123
Lulu
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:35 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by bluejay123 »

Isn't mentioning six carbons in the hexanoic acid bonus a slight giveaway?
Jaya Alagar
jonah
Auron
Posts: 2383
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah »

bluejay123 wrote:Isn't mentioning six carbons in the hexanoic acid bonus a slight giveaway?
The question amounts to "do you know what the name for a six-carbon carboxylic acid is," and that's by design. It is the middle part.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
User avatar
Amizda Calyx
Forums Staff: Moderator
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 9:46 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Amizda Calyx »

bird bird bird bird bird wrote:[quote="2016 HSNCT round 13"
2016 HSNCT round 20 wrote:Henry Friesen discovered the human form of this 199-residue hormone. Its release is stimulated by thyrotropin-releasing hormone and vasoactive intestinal peptide. It is released at the time of the ovulatory LH surge and as a reaction to (*) suckling, while excessive levels of it can result in galactorrhea. For 10 points—name this hormone secreted by the anterior pituitary gland, which promotes lactation.

answer: prolactin (prompt on "PRL")
VIP and LH surge are pretty useless clues since both are associated with multiple hormones, with prolactin being a very minor one -- it's rarely (never?) depicted in menstrual cycle hormone level diagrams, which are what high schoolers would be exposed to. Also, I know the name stands for "promotes lactation", and it is somewhat indirectly needed for lactation in that you aren't really lactating unless you have milk, but prolactin is involved in milk production and secretion from the alveoli, not lactation. Oxytocin is also released in response to suckling (altho from the post pit) and is the actual hormone involved in milk letdown. It seems unfair to reward being able to put together "promotes" and "lactation" while at the same time confusing the people who know about prolactin outside of its etymology.
Joelle Smart
Ellensburg High School, 2006–10
University of Washington, 2010–14
Rutgers University, 2015–20??
PACE
HSAPQ biology editor, 2014–2017

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.
Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock
Lulu
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock »

Thank you to NAQT for writing a great set; I really enjoyed the tournament this year!

My teammates and I were wondering a few things about the questions, however. My teammate buzzed at "Galois groups" for the quintic polynomial question with just "polynomials", and was negged. He was wondering why he couldn't have been prompted, as he wasn't sure how specific the question wanted him to be when he buzzed. I was also wondering if there were many protests about the "nuclear war" tossup in Packet 11, since the first clue refers to Duck and Cover, and thus, taking cover from a nuclear attack; and in the same packet, I thought the Amtrak tossup was extremely fraudable.

Also, I'm sure this has been discussed before, but what is NAQT's policy on including warnings such as "Description acceptable" at the beginning of appropriate questions? My teammate didn't buzz with "Zootopia police" even though she knew it, and after the question, she said, "That thing has a name?" I think including a "description acceptable" warning would also be helpful on questions like "the JFK assassination rifle" or "the iPhone of the San Bernadino shooter", as I think some people might have been dissuaded from buzzing if they thought there was a proper name for the rifle they did not know of, or if they thought they needed the shooter's name to have their answer ruled as correct.

Lastly, I believe there was a factual error in the "Oregon" tossup in Packet 16; the governor's name is Kate Brown, not Emily Brown.

Thanks!
L. Geng
Great Neck South '17
jonah
Auron
Posts: 2383
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah »

Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock wrote:My teammates and I were wondering a few things about the questions, however. My teammate buzzed at "Galois groups" for the quintic polynomial question with just "polynomials", and was negged. He was wondering why he couldn't have been prompted, as he wasn't sure how specific the question wanted him to be when he buzzed.
This was a mistake and I'm sorry for it. It caused protests in several rooms; in non-mooted cases we did indeed rule that it should have been prompted.
Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock wrote:I was also wondering if there were many protests about the "nuclear war" tossup in Packet 11, since the first clue refers to Duck and Cover, and thus, taking cover from a nuclear attack
I'm not sure I understand your question. "Nuclear attack" was acceptable. Here's the complete question and answer line:
HSNCT packet 11 wrote:This type of event was discussed in an educational film featuring Bert the Turtle, and the phrase "We must either love each other or we must die" was spoken in a 1964 campaign ad depicting one. The film (*) Duck and Cover gave dubious advice on surviving this kind of event. Lyndon Johnson's "Daisy Girl" ad depicted—for 10 points—what so-far hypothetical event, which prompted the building of bomb shelters during the Cold War?

answer: nuclear war (accept answers that mention the use of nuclear or atomic weapons or the notion of a nuclear explosion or thermonuclear attack; prompt on less specific answers like "war")
Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock wrote:and in the same packet, I thought the Amtrak tossup was extremely fraudable.
I'm sorry to hear that. Some of our editors did express concerns to that effect; others thought that at gameplay speed it wasn't actually so.
Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock wrote:Also, I'm sure this has been discussed before, but what is NAQT's policy on including warnings such as "Description acceptable" at the beginning of appropriate questions? My teammate didn't buzz with "Zootopia police" even though she knew it, and after the question, she said, "That thing has a name?" I think including a "description acceptable" warning would also be helpful on questions like "the JFK assassination rifle" or "the iPhone of the San Bernadino shooter", as I think some people might have been dissuaded from buzzing if they thought there was a proper name for the rifle they did not know of, or if they thought they needed the shooter's name to have their answer ruled as correct.
We generally do not include the vague "Description acceptable" directive, although more specific ones like "Composer and genre required" and (in the "Jake Arrieta's no-hitters" tossup) "Athlete and feat required" do occasionally show up.
Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock wrote:Lastly, I believe there was a factual error in the "Oregon" tossup in Packet 16; the governor's name is Kate Brown, not Emily Brown.
That's pretty embarrassing. I'm sorry about that.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
User avatar
Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant
Yuna
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:05 pm
Location: Evanston, IL

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant »

I think they mean it was easy to think the answer was "taking cover from a nuclear attack".
Farrah Bilimoria
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)
Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock
Lulu
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock »

Sorry for the unclear question! What happened in my game was that I buzzed first line with "taking cover from a nuclear attack" and was negged. I protested, and it was resolved rather quickly at halftime in my favor, so I was wondering if there were other similar protests.
L. Geng
Great Neck South '17
jonah
Auron
Posts: 2383
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah »

Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock wrote:Sorry for the unclear question! What happened in my game was that I buzzed first line with "taking cover from a nuclear attack" and was negged. I protested, and it was resolved rather quickly at halftime in my favor, so I was wondering if there were other similar protests.
Ah, fair enough. I believe that falls under the "accept answers that mention the use of…" directive, so it should have been accepted; I'm glad to hear it ultimately was. I do not have any information on other protests on that question.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
User avatar
Cody
2008-09 Male Athlete of the Year
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:57 am

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Cody »

Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock wrote:Also, I'm sure this has been discussed before, but what is NAQT's policy on including warnings such as "Description acceptable" at the beginning of appropriate questions? My teammate didn't buzz with "Zootopia police" even though she knew it, and after the question, she said, "That thing has a name?" I think including a "description acceptable" warning would also be helpful on questions like "the JFK assassination rifle" or "the iPhone of the San Bernadino shooter", as I think some people might have been dissuaded from buzzing if they thought there was a proper name for the rifle they did not know of, or if they thought they needed the shooter's name to have their answer ruled as correct.
Most of these have nothing to do with description acceptable -- if a thing doesn't have a name (such as the JFK rifle), that warning is stupid. There's no name for it so a warning that you can give a description instead of a name makes no sense.
Cody Voight, VCU ’14.
User avatar
Corry
Rikku
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:54 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Corry »

Cody wrote: Most of these have nothing to do with description acceptable -- if a thing doesn't have a name (such as the JFK rifle), that warning is stupid. There's no name for it so a warning that you can give a description instead of a name makes no sense.
I disagree. While "Description acceptable" is useful for tossups on named things that don't require the official name, it can also exist to signal that something has no official name at all. Take, for instance, the tossup in VCU Open 2015 (ahem) on "Zinedine Zidane headbutting Marco Materazzi in the 2006 FIFA World Cup Final".
Corry Wang
Arcadia High School 2013
Amherst College 2017
NAQT Writer and Subject Editor
hokie168
Lulu
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by hokie168 »

Can you post the condensation reaction bonus from the final game? Thanks.
Dennis Loo
Former coach at TJ and IMSA
Former player at UVA and Virginia Tech
User avatar
Important Bird Area
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 6113
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:33 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area »

2016 HSNCT round 26 wrote:The saponification of animal fats to form soaps is an example of this class of reaction. For 10 points each—

A. In what class of reactions does water break apart a chemical bond?

answer: hydrolysis or hydrolytic reaction (accept hydrolyzing or hydrolyze)

B. The formation of a peptide bond is one of this class of reactions, an example of which is the reverse of hydrolysis. These reactions can produce water, ammonia, or other small molecules as byproducts.

answer: condensation reaction(s) (accept condensing or condense)

C. Hydrolysis of sulfuric acid yields the anion HSO4\N-, which has this name.

answer: hydrogen sulfate or bisulfate (do not accept or prompt on "sulfate" or "bisulfite")
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF

"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
User avatar
setht
Auron
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by setht »

bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
2016 HSNCT round 26 wrote:The saponification of animal fats to form soaps is an example of this class of reaction. For 10 points each—

A. In what class of reactions does water break apart a chemical bond?

answer: hydrolysis or hydrolytic reaction (accept hydrolyzing or hydrolyze)

B. The formation of a peptide bond is one of this class of reactions, an example of which is the reverse of hydrolysis. These reactions can produce water, ammonia, or other small molecules as byproducts.

answer: condensation reaction(s) (accept condensing or condense)

C. Hydrolysis of sulfuric acid yields the anion HSO4\N-, which has this name.

answer: hydrogen sulfate or bisulfate (do not accept or prompt on "sulfate" or "bisulfite")
That is the corrected version of the question.

The version that was used at HSNCT is as follows:
2016 HSNCT round 26 original version wrote:The saponification of animal fats to form soaps is an example of this class of reaction. For 10 points each--

A. In what class of reactions does water break apart a chemical bond?

answer: hydrolysis or hydrolytic reaction (accept hydrolyzing or hydrolyze)

B. The formation of a peptide bond is an example of this kind of reaction, the reverse of hydrolysis. It sometimes forms water as a byproduct.

answer: condensation reaction(s) (accept condensing or condense)

C. Hydrolysis of sulfuric acid yields the anion HSO4\N-, which has this name.

answer: hydrogen sulfate or bisulfate (do not accept or prompt on "sulfate" or "bisulfite")
Seth Teitler
Formerly UC Berkeley and U. Chicago
President of NAQT
Emeritus member of ACF
hokie168
Lulu
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by hokie168 »

setht wrote:
bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
2016 HSNCT round 26 wrote:
The version that was used at HSNCT is as follows:
2016 HSNCT round 26 original version wrote:The saponification of animal fats to form soaps is an example of this class of reaction. For 10 points each--

A. In what class of reactions does water break apart a chemical bond?

answer: hydrolysis or hydrolytic reaction (accept hydrolyzing or hydrolyze)

B. The formation of a peptide bond is an example of this kind of reaction, the reverse of hydrolysis. It sometimes forms water as a byproduct.

answer: condensation reaction(s) (accept condensing or condense)

C. Hydrolysis of sulfuric acid yields the anion HSO4\N-, which has this name.

answer: hydrogen sulfate or bisulfate (do not accept or prompt on "sulfate" or "bisulfite")
Could someone involved please explain the reasoning behind the condensation reactions protest? Thanks.
Dennis Loo
Former coach at TJ and IMSA
Former player at UVA and Virginia Tech
bluejay123
Lulu
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:35 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by bluejay123 »

Condensation reaction means the production of water as a reaction product.
Dehydration synthesis is the addition of two substances to form a substance and water, both as reaction products.
Thus, condensation reaction = dehydration synthesis.
Jaya Alagar
touchpack
Rikku
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:25 am

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by touchpack »

bluejay123 wrote:Condensation reaction means the production of water as a reaction product.
Dehydration synthesis is the addition of two substances to form a substance and water, both as reaction products.
Thus, condensation reaction = dehydration synthesis.
Put bluntly, no, you're wrong.

A condensation is formally defined as "A reaction in which two molecules combine to form a larger molecule with the elimination of a small molecule, in many cases water" (definition from Organic Chemistry by Mark Loudon, 5th edition, but you can find many other identical definitions with a simple google search)

A dehydration reaction is a reaction in which "the elements of water are lost from the starting material" (definition again from Loudon, although you can find many other identical definitions online)

As such, dehydration reactions are a proper subset of condensations, but they are not identical. I have more thoughts on this situation but I'll hold them for now.
Billy Busse
University of Illinois, B.S. '14
Rosalind Franklin University, M.S. '21, M.D. Candidate '25
Emeritus Member, ACF
Writer/Subject Editor/Set Editor, NAQT
User avatar
setht
Auron
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by setht »

hokie168 wrote:Could someone involved please explain the reasoning behind the condensation reactions protest? Thanks.
Sure. For reference, here's the text of the question as it was read at HSNCT:
2016 HSNCT round 26 original version wrote:The saponification of animal fats to form soaps is an example of this class of reaction. For 10 points each--

A. In what class of reactions does water break apart a chemical bond?

answer: hydrolysis or hydrolytic reaction (accept hydrolyzing or hydrolyze)

B. The formation of a peptide bond is an example of this kind of reaction, the reverse of hydrolysis. It sometimes forms water as a byproduct.

answer: condensation reaction(s) (accept condensing or condense)

C. Hydrolysis of sulfuric acid yields the anion HSO4\N-, which has this name.

answer: hydrogen sulfate or bisulfate (do not accept or prompt on "sulfate" or "bisulfite")
The first sentence points clearly and uniquely to dehydration synthesis. The second sentence points to a larger class of reactions than just dehydration synthesis, but the protest committee didn't feel the wording was clear enough in picking out a larger class—it seemed like dehydration synthesis could be argued to (vacuously) fit the clues of the second sentence. Given that, the committee did not feel it was appropriate to reject an answer of dehydration synthesis (which was the one answer that correctly fit the clues of the first sentence).

We apologize for the nonideal wording of this question (which we have changed for future use).

-Seth
Seth Teitler
Formerly UC Berkeley and U. Chicago
President of NAQT
Emeritus member of ACF
User avatar
Sima Guang Hater
Auron
Posts: 1958
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:43 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Sima Guang Hater »

The other problem with that bonus part is that for the first sentence, if you're being anal about it, condensation is strictly INcorrect, because the reverse of hydrolysis in the strictest sense is dehydration synthesis, and NOT condensation. If you're not ok with subsets for the second sentence, you shouldn't be ok with supersets for the first.
Eric Mukherjee, MD PhD
Brown 2009, Penn Med 2018
Instructor/Attending Physician/Postdoctoral Fellow, Vanderbilt University Medical Center
Coach, University School of Nashville

“The next generation will always surpass the previous one. It’s one of the never-ending cycles in life.”
Support the Stevens-Johnson Syndrome Foundation
User avatar
Ike
Auron
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:01 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Ike »

I don't know much about this but I want to understand something:
it seemed like dehydration synthesis could be argued to (vacuously) fit the clues of the second sentence.
I highlighted vacuously here because I'm assuming that what you're trying to say is:

It's a vacuous truth to say "If a dehydration synthesis forms water as a by-product " ... then the answer of dehydration synthesis will apply to the second sentence of this bonus part, since dehydration synthesis _always_ produces water as a by-product.

If that's what you / the protest committee are / is trying to say, I disagree with this logic. Normal English usage of the word sometimes means "sometimes and not always." The only time I can think of where you would incorrectly use a definition of sometimes to mean "sometimes and sometimes always" is when you're converting logical formulas into English, and want to find a shorthand for "sometimes and sometimes always" so that your conditional can be treated as an improper subset of always.

Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding something about the use of the word vacuously here.
Ike
UIUC 13
User avatar
setht
Auron
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by setht »

Ike wrote:I don't know much about this but I want to understand something:
it seemed like dehydration synthesis could be argued to (vacuously) fit the clues of the second sentence.
I highlighted vacuously here because I'm assuming that what you're trying to say is:

It's a vacuous truth to say "If a dehydration synthesis forms water as a by-product " ... then the answer of dehydration synthesis will apply to the second sentence of this bonus part, since dehydration synthesis _always_ produces water as a by-product.

If that's what you / the protest committee are / is trying to say, I disagree with this logic. Normal English usage of the word sometimes means "sometimes and not always." The only time I can think of where you would incorrectly use a definition of sometimes to mean "sometimes and sometimes always" is when you're converting logical formulas into English, and want to find a shorthand for "sometimes and sometimes always" so that your conditional can be treated as an improper subset of always.

Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding something about the use of the word vacuously here.
Your interpretation is what we had in mind. And I agree with you that saying "if X always happens in reaction Y, then X sometimes happens in reaction Y" is not normal English usage of the word sometimes.

But it seemed to us that the first sentence of the bonus (as read at HSNCT) uniquely picked out a single answer (dehydration synthesis), and did so in a very clear manner. The second sentence confused matters with the "sometimes" clue, but since it seemed to us that the wording didn't absolutely rule out dehydration synthesis, we didn't feel it was right to reject that as an answer.

-Seth
Seth Teitler
Formerly UC Berkeley and U. Chicago
President of NAQT
Emeritus member of ACF
User avatar
Charm Bison
Wakka
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Charm Bison »

Can I see the question on Who from Who's on First?
Sam Brochin
Hunter College High School 2012—2018, Pitt 2019—who knows
2016/2017 HSNCT National Champion
"sam brochin take me the **** to waffle house" — Max Shatan
User avatar
Important Bird Area
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 6113
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:33 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area »

2016 HSNCT round 5 wrote:Sometimes this person's wife "comes down and collects" his monthly paycheck. It is never specified what player would get the assist leading to this person executing a 9-3 put-out. This person's name is not "Naturally," and he should not be confused with (*) I Don't Know, though he, I Don't Know, and What execute a hypothetical triple play. For 10 points—name this first baseman from an Abbott-and-Costello routine.

answer: Who (accept Who's on First; prompt on answers mentioning "first base")
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF

"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
User avatar
Charm Bison
Wakka
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Charm Bison »

That was the worst question I've ever heard. I loved it.
Sam Brochin
Hunter College High School 2012—2018, Pitt 2019—who knows
2016/2017 HSNCT National Champion
"sam brochin take me the **** to waffle house" — Max Shatan
User avatar
The Polebarn Hotel
Wakka
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: Ithaca, NY

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by The Polebarn Hotel »

One thing that I would like to see in future iterations of HSNCT in the statistics would be a small parenthetical by each player's name that tells what grade they're in. In the PACE stats, all (or most) players have (Jr) or (Sr) by their names and to me that seems like an easy thing that would make stats just that much more interesting. Because national tournaments draw so many players from so many different regions, it's interesting to see who's graduating and who's just a sophomore, because most players are people whom I would have never met.

I know this is the discussion about the set but I didn't know where else to post this.
Casey Wetherbee
Ithaca '17
Georgetown '21
NAQT Writer
jonah
Auron
Posts: 2383
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah »

The Baking of the English Working Class wrote:One thing that I would like to see in future iterations of HSNCT in the statistics would be a small parenthetical by each player's name that tells what grade they're in. In the PACE stats, all (or most) players have (Jr) or (Sr) by their names and to me that seems like an easy thing that would make stats just that much more interesting. Because national tournaments draw so many players from so many different regions, it's interesting to see who's graduating and who's just a sophomore, because most players are people whom I would have never met.

I know this is the discussion about the set but I didn't know where else to post this.
No need to wait until future iterations!
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
User avatar
Corry
Rikku
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:54 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Corry »

I just noticed this while listening to the HSNCT podcasts (great stuff, by the way), but a tossup on Coriolanus? That had a 27% conversion at the 2014 HSNCT, come on guys!
Corry Wang
Arcadia High School 2013
Amherst College 2017
NAQT Writer and Subject Editor
User avatar
Auks Ran Ova
Forums Staff: Chief Administrator
Posts: 4295
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:28 pm
Location: Minneapolis
Contact:

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

learn [clap emoji] more [clap emoji] shakespeare
Rob Carson
University of Minnesota '11, MCTC '??, BHSU forever
Member, ACF
Member emeritus, PACE
Writer and Editor, NAQT
jonah
Auron
Posts: 2383
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah »

Conversion data that people asked for:

real gases: 0-5-5 in five rooms
colon (CS): 10-65-52 in 86 rooms
quintic: 0-9-7 in ten rooms; note that this was affected by a missing prompt on "polynomial," which would have only been resolved if it could have affected the outcome of the game
prolactin: 0-4-8 in nine rooms
Erving Goffman: 1-1-3 in 16 rooms
Coriolanus: 0-14-8 in 26 rooms

Measuring by points per room, the hardest question read in at least five rooms was prolactin (followed immediately by Goffman, then William O. Douglas). The best-converted tossups read in least five rooms were Joe DiMaggio (mixed), Alexander Calder, and Waterloo (all powers in five, six, and six rooms respectively).

Looking only questions read in at least 75 rooms (i.e., all or almost all the prelim rooms), the hardest questions were William O. Douglas, Lucia di Lammermoor, and Erik Larson; the best-converted were Japan (in 19th century trade history), Artemis Fowl, and Korea (from food clues).

Again using 75 rooms as the cutoff, 56 tossups had under 75% conversion, while 241 had at least 75%; the overall conversion rate was 87%.


Any other questions about conversion data? We have bonus data too.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
User avatar
Fado Alexandrino
Yuna
Posts: 834
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Farhaven, Ontario

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Fado Alexandrino »

Cody wrote:
Rudolf Volz's Hamlet In Rock wrote:Also, I'm sure this has been discussed before, but what is NAQT's policy on including warnings such as "Description acceptable" at the beginning of appropriate questions? My teammate didn't buzz with "Zootopia police" even though she knew it, and after the question, she said, "That thing has a name?" I think including a "description acceptable" warning would also be helpful on questions like "the JFK assassination rifle" or "the iPhone of the San Bernadino shooter", as I think some people might have been dissuaded from buzzing if they thought there was a proper name for the rifle they did not know of, or if they thought they needed the shooter's name to have their answer ruled as correct.
Most of these have nothing to do with description acceptable -- if a thing doesn't have a name (such as the JFK rifle), that warning is stupid. There's no name for it so a warning that you can give a description instead of a name makes no sense.
Rizwan Farook has a name and the fact his was not needed during his iPhone's tossup was not evident during the question.

Could I see the conversion stats on "triple"? 3/3 deservedly negged with "cross" up north, interested how it played out.
Joe Su, OCT
Lisgar 2012, McGill 2015, McGill 2019, Queen's 2020
jonah
Auron
Posts: 2383
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah »

raffi_-_c-a-n-a-d-a.mp3 wrote:Could I see the conversion stats on "triple"? 3/3 deservedly negged with "cross" up north, interested how it played out.
0-74-24 in 85 rooms.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
Andruwxnsa
Lulu
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:19 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by Andruwxnsa »

Could I see the conversion statistics on William O. Douglas, Poisson distribution, and Candide? Thanks!
Rohin Devanathan
Northwestern '25?
UC Berkeley '20
Solon High School '16
jonah
Auron
Posts: 2383
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah »

Andruwxnsa wrote:Could I see the conversion statistics on William O. Douglas, Poisson distribution, and Candide? Thanks!
Douglas: 6-8-18 in 86 rooms
Poisson distribution: 3-2-1 in 8 rooms
Candide: 16-5-2 in 21 rooms
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
themanwho
Lulu
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:52 pm

Re: 2016 HSNCT discussion

Post by themanwho »

AKKOLADE wrote:Nobody calls amphotericin B by its brand name any more, unless they've been practicing medicine forever. I've taken two courses on antibiotics and I don't remember ever discussing that brand name.
I'm a practicing pharmacy technician at a major metropolitan hospital, and we use the brand names (Ambisome especially.) What was the question?

ETA: Nevermind, I see it was posted upthread. My comment is probably irrelevant.
Myron Meyer, Sioux Falls
Locked