NASAT 2016: Specific Question Discussion

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NASAT 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cheynem » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:34 pm

Discuss specific questions or ask them to be posted. Please give a general reason if you want a question to be posted.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by bajaj » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:34 pm

Could someone post the tossup on archery? I was curious about the first clue used before the description of Ekalavya in the second line.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Auroni » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:43 pm

Packet 10 wrote:16. A fire god enlists a hero's usage of this skill in order to burn down a forest being subject to a torrent of rain. A low-born youth masters this talent by practicing in front of a statue of a famed instructor who once refused to teach him this skill. This ability is used to subvert a fatal curse and fling the head of Jayadratha directly into his father's lap. Ekalavya and Karna are refused education in this ability by Drona, though the latter masters it using a tool called Vijaya. The middle Pandava brother is given the hand of Draupadi for his mastery of this ability. For 10 points, name this ability that Arjuna uses to strike the eye of a golden fish while looking only at its reflection in a pool of water in the Mahabharata.
ANSWER: archery [or using a bow; or shooting an arrow; or obvious equivalents] <Kim>
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Eric K » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:59 pm

Could I see the question on modes from round 3? I had an unresolved protest on a negged answer of harmonics.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cheynem » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:17 pm

19. In free space, examples of these things, which are not beams, take an Hermite–Gaussian (air-MEET GOW-see-in) form and are abbreviated TEM. For a Gaussian beam, a measure of how far out the beam goes before the intensity drops by a factor of e-squared is this term's "field diameter." Two indices are used to define the "guided" examples of these things, abbreviated LP, which are a common object of study in the context of optical fibers. Optical fibers can be divided into those that have one of these things and those that have multiple. For a system of masses, motions in which every mass moves with the same frequency is an example of these things, which occur at integer multiples of the fundamental frequency. For 10 points, name these things that are prefixed by "normal" to indicate special motions in a coupled oscillatory system.
ANSWER: modes <Voight>
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by ashwin99 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:12 pm

Can I see the tossup on "sound"? There were some issues with some people buzzing in with "sonar" near the end.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cody » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:21 pm

A value named for this thing can be given in terms of temperature, salinity, and depth by four empirical formulas named for Medwin, Mackenzie, Coppen, or Chen and Millero. Governing equations of a technique named for this thing incorporate the directivity index as part of finding the detection threshold. A "mushroom" named for this thing is a piezoelectric transducer made from PZT and called a tonpilz (TONE-pilts). Though not temperature, the thermocline has a negative gradient in a characteristic value for this thing, so it reflects this thing. A subtype of a technology named for this thing uses a towfish to create a bathymetric profile and is it's "side-scan" type. For 10 points, what phenomenon names the technology used to detect objects underwater?
ANSWER: sound waves [or noise; or acoustic vibrations; prompt on mechanical or pressure waves, or vibrations] <Voight>
(the pronoun has been changed to "this phenomenon" for future mirrors, to help avoid this situation)
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Victor Prieto » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:32 pm

Cody wrote: (the pronoun has been changed to "this phenomenon" for future mirrors, to help avoid this situation)
Can you post the updated text? I thought this was an inspired idea, but it didn't translate well in gameplay.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Doga (Dog Yoga) » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:36 pm

Cody wrote:
A value named for this thing can be given in terms of temperature, salinity, and depth by four empirical formulas named for Medwin, Mackenzie, Coppen, or Chen and Millero. Governing equations of a technique named for this thing incorporate the directivity index as part of finding the detection threshold. A "mushroom" named for this thing is a piezoelectric transducer made from PZT and called a tonpilz (TONE-pilts). Though not temperature, the thermocline has a negative gradient in a characteristic value for this thing, so it reflects this thing. A subtype of a technology named for this thing uses a towfish to create a bathymetric profile and is it's "side-scan" type. For 10 points, what phenomenon names the technology used to detect objects underwater?
ANSWER: sound waves [or noise; or acoustic vibrations; prompt on mechanical or pressure waves, or vibrations] <Voight>
(the pronoun has been changed to "this phenomenon" for future mirrors, to help avoid this situation)
Without addressing the actual content of the question, sonar should 100% be acceptable as an answer if you're going to use the phrase "side-scan".
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cody » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:22 pm

Victor Prieto wrote:
Cody wrote:(the pronoun has been changed to "this phenomenon" for future mirrors, to help avoid this situation)
Can you post the updated text? I thought this was an inspired idea, but it didn't translate well in gameplay.
Updated text wrote:A value named for this phenomenon can be given in terms of temperature, salinity, and depth by four empirical formulas named, respectively, for Medwin, Mackenzie, Coppen, or Chen and Millero. Governing equations of a technology named for this phenomenon incorporate the directivity index as part of finding the detection threshold. A "mushroom" named for this phenomenon is a piezoelectric transducer made from PZT and called a tonpilz (TONE-pilts). It's not temperature, but the thermocline has a negative gradient in a characteristic value for this phenomenon, thus reflecting it. A type of a technology named for this phenomenon uses a towfish to create a bathymetric profile and is the "side-scan" type. For 10 points, what phenomenon names the technology that's used to detect objects underwater?
ANSWER: sound waves [or noise; or acoustic vibrations; prompt on mechanical or pressure waves, or vibrations; do not accept "sonar"] <Voight>
Team B.A.D. wrote:Without addressing the actual content of the question, sonar should 100% be acceptable as an answer if you're going to use the phrase "side-scan".
Why?
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Amizda Calyx » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:06 pm

Cody wrote:
Victor Prieto wrote:
Cody wrote:(the pronoun has been changed to "this phenomenon" for future mirrors, to help avoid this situation)
Can you post the updated text? I thought this was an inspired idea, but it didn't translate well in gameplay.
Updated text wrote:A value named for this phenomenon can be given in terms of temperature, salinity, and depth by four empirical formulas named, respectively, for Medwin, Mackenzie, Coppen, or Chen and Millero. Governing equations of a technology named for this phenomenon incorporate the directivity index as part of finding the detection threshold. A "mushroom" named for this phenomenon is a piezoelectric transducer made from PZT and called a tonpilz (TONE-pilts). It's not temperature, but the thermocline has a negative gradient in a characteristic value for this phenomenon, thus reflecting it. A type of a technology named for this phenomenon uses a towfish to create a bathymetric profile and is the "side-scan" type. For 10 points, what phenomenon names the technology that's used to detect objects underwater?
ANSWER: sound waves [or noise; or acoustic vibrations; prompt on mechanical or pressure waves, or vibrations; do not accept "sonar"] <Voight>
Team B.A.D. wrote:Without addressing the actual content of the question, sonar should 100% be acceptable as an answer if you're going to use the phrase "side-scan".
Why?
Couldn't it be argued that sonar is a phenomenon as well, in that animals could be said to use it? So the technology named for "this phenomenon" could just be named for (bio)sonar itself? I agree that "sonar" should be completely acceptable given the clues that are literally pointing to sonar, especially since it's very confusing what is actually being asked for in these clues, and especially especially because you don't even name sonar at the end.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cody » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:26 pm

Amizda Calyx wrote:Couldn't it be argued that sonar is a phenomenon as well, in that animals could be said to use it? So the technology named for "this phenomenon" could just be named for (bio)sonar itself? I agree that "sonar" should be completely acceptable given the clues that are literally pointing to sonar, especially since it's very confusing what is actually being asked for in these clues, and especially especially because you don't even name sonar at the end.
I don't see how you could argue that, nor why you would in the first place. I will certainly give further revisions some thought (along the lines of "technology that uses and is named for this phenomenon", for instance).

I concede that the question was empirically confusing in its original incarnation, but I do not see a reason to accept "sonar" (in the original incarnation, or now). (It is my opinion, especially as the question currently exists, that is very reasonable to expect someone to put together "sound" from "sonar" + "technology named for this phenomenon").
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Amizda Calyx » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:46 pm

Cody wrote:I don't see how you could argue that, nor why you would in the first place. I will certainly give further revisions some thought (along the lines of "technology that uses and is named for this phenomenon", for instance).

I concede that the question was empirically confusing in its original incarnation, but I do not see a reason to accept "sonar" (in the original incarnation, or now). (It is my opinion, especially as the question currently exists, that is very reasonable to expect someone to put together "sound" from "sonar" + "technology named for this phenomenon").
Echolocation is often described as "sonar" in the popular media (warning: video); while I normally don't care what the general public considers proper science terminology, the fact that this is widespread could lead people to think of it as a natural phenomenon that manmade technology is replicating. There are also many scientific sources that refer to it as sonar in their title, such as this book with over 1200 citations, and these others
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cody » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:55 pm

Amizda Calyx wrote:Echolocation is often described as "sonar" in the popular media (warning: video); while I normally don't care what the general public considers proper science terminology, the fact that this is widespread could lead people to think of it as a natural phenomenon that manmade technology is replicating. There are also many scientific sources that refer to it as sonar in their title, such as this book with over 1200 citations, and these others
If players think sonar is a natural phenomenon that is being replicated, they would be wrong. Players potentially harboring a misapprehension about sonar is not a problem with the question (nor do I think this is a significant / prevalent problem from the view of player empathy).
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Amizda Calyx » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:15 pm

Cody wrote:If players think sonar is a natural phenomenon that is being replicated, they would be wrong. Players potentially harboring a misapprehension about sonar is not a problem with the question (nor do I think this is a significant / prevalent problem from the view of player empathy).
I'm not sure I'm understanding this -- are you arguing that "sonar" refers solely to the naval equipment?
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cody » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:26 pm

Amizda Calyx wrote:
Cody wrote:If players think sonar is a natural phenomenon that is being replicated, they would be wrong. Players potentially harboring a misapprehension about sonar is not a problem with the question (nor do I think this is a significant / prevalent problem from the view of player empathy).
I'm not sure I'm understanding this -- are you arguing that "sonar" refers solely to the naval equipment?
I'm referring to the fact that sonar is named for "sound", not biosonar. That players might think the latter (which I doubt is the case) is not a problem with the question.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Amizda Calyx » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:08 pm

But it's used to refer to the general method of localizing objects using acoustics, too... I understand your position about it not being what the acronym "SONAR" originally stood for, but in common usage and scientific discourse sonar is also defined as "the method of echolocation used in air or water by animals such as bats or whales." I feel that with the current wording of the question, players could be misled into thinking it's asking for the natural phenomenon (in the quizbowl sense) of sonar that "names" the technology (in the quizbowl sense, as in, it shares a name with the technology) rather than understanding that it's asking for the phenomenon of sound that represents the first two letters of SONAR. This is especially complicated by the fact that the question does not drop the term "sonar" or even the other parts of its name to make it clear that that's not what it's asking for.
I like the question conceit overall and the clues are interesting, I just think that it doesn't sufficiently disambiguate from sonar during a game.

Also, there's this totally legitimate source on how sonar is a phenomenon.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cody » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:22 pm

Amizda Calyx wrote:But it's used to refer to the general method of localizing objects using acoustics, too... I understand your position about it not being what the acronym "SONAR" originally stood for, but in common usage and scientific discourse sonar is also defined as "the method of echolocation used in air or water by animals such as bats or whales." I feel that with the current wording of the question, players could be misled into thinking it's asking for the natural phenomenon (in the quizbowl sense) of sonar that "names" the technology (in the quizbowl sense, as in, it shares a name with the technology) rather than understanding that it's asking for the phenomenon of sound that represents the first two letters of SONAR. This is especially complicated by the fact that the question does not drop the term "sonar" or even the other parts of its name to make it clear that that's not what it's asking for.
I like the question conceit overall and the clues are interesting, I just think that it doesn't sufficiently disambiguate from sonar during a game.

Also, there's this totally legitimate source on how sonar is a phenomenon.
And I would say that vanishingly few people are making that mistake (my fiancée, though she does not know what sonar stands for, was confused that someone might be under that impression), and moreover that to make that mistake betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what sonar is. I have no problem denying points to someone who thinks that sonar is named for (bio)sonar because they do not understand sonar (and, again, I stress that I believe practically no one is making this mistake).

In common discourse, it is _much_ more common to use echolocation instead of (bio)sonar (cf. ngrams and the double sonar article you linked -- it uses echolocation throughout the article). I have very rarely heard the term used in such a way, as compared to echolocation.

Dropping sonar is immaterial to your critique because that would be the very last word of the tossup -- if one accepts this critique, dropping sonar would only contribute a marginal fix.

The wording of the question is sufficient to disambiguate sonar and, in my opinion, is quite clear at this point. The suboptimality of the original question's pronouns may've generated some confusion, but that's no longer the case.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Amizda Calyx » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:47 pm

Cody wrote:
Amizda Calyx wrote:And I would say that vanishingly few people are making that mistake (my fiancée, though she does not know what sonar stands for, was confused that someone might be under that impression), and moreover that to make that mistake betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what sonar is. I have no problem denying points to someone who thinks that sonar is named for (bio)sonar because they do not understand sonar (and, again, I stress that I believe practically no one is making this mistake).

In common discourse, it is _much_ more common to use echolocation instead of (bio)sonar (cf. ngrams and the double sonar article you linked -- it uses echolocation throughout the article). I have very rarely heard the term used in such a way, as compared to echolocation.

Dropping sonar is immaterial to your critique because that would be the very last word of the tossup -- if one accepts this critique, dropping sonar would only contribute a marginal fix.

The wording of the question is sufficient to disambiguate sonar and, in my opinion, is quite clear at this point. The suboptimality of the original question's pronouns may've generated some confusion, but that's no longer the case.
I provided multiple examples where "sonar" is used interchangeably with echolocation, including 500+ articles where it is used in the title and is not in the context of naval sonar. Here are another 19,000+ articles where animal sonar appears, including a certain Nagel work. I think it's along the same lines as people using "fluorescence resonance energy transfer" instead of the more scientifically applicable "Forster resonance energy transfer" -- it's already in common enough usage that even though fluorescence isn't actually transferred the term is still acceptable, if not preferable, in scientific articles.
My argument is still that when you spend two+ clues describing sonar in that way in a real-time quizbowl match, it is reasonable to anticipate people buzzing in with sonar, regardless of whether they know or care about its acronymic origins, because it is used in popular culture and in academia as if it were a natural phenomenon and not (only) a man-made technology. It should at least be promptable.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cody » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:32 am

Sonar is not named for biosonar and any player who thinks that is wrong. Unlike with FRET, there is no ambiguity about what sonar is named for. They are two completely different situations and in this one, players would not deserve a prompt.

Plus, this argument, as presented, is incredibly silly. Who actually thinks that the technology of sonar is named for biosonar instead of being an acronym like radar?

None of the arguments about biosonar would be a reason to include a prompt. It is not reasonable to assume that players are under a misapprehension that, as far as I know, no one is under. Quizbowl is about knowing things.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Amizda Calyx » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:50 pm

Cody wrote:Sonar is not named for biosonar and any player who thinks that is wrong. Unlike with FRET, there is no ambiguity about what sonar is named for. They are two completely different situations and in this one, players would not deserve a prompt.
Come on dude, you know this was a response to your multiple claims that "sonar is very rarely used for echolocation", not an argument that people actually believe sonar is named for "biosonar". Also there shouldn't be any prompting for FRET.
Plus, this argument, as presented, is incredibly silly. Who actually thinks that the technology of sonar is named for biosonar instead of being an acronym like radar?
I didn't say people literally think it's named for "biosonar". I added "(bio)" in front of "sonar" to distinguish it from the technology in that earlier comment, I wasn't implying that "biosonar" is a term people regularly use. And anyway, quizbowl is ambiguous in its referents all the time; if you wanted to be exact you would also need to specify that the technology is only partially named for "sound", or that it's named for an application of it. I don't see why it's scientifically necessary to know what SONAR originally stood for if you know its scientific principles and use. The fact that you don't say sonar is relevant for people buzzing at the end, because describing it in the giveaway but not naming it (when there's no reason not to name it) implies it is somehow involved in the answerline.
None of the arguments about biosonar would be a reason to include a prompt. It is not reasonable to assume that players are under a misapprehension that, as far as I know, no one is under. Quizbowl is about knowing things.
Except at least one person was under this misapprehension, hence this thread topic? Unless you're saying that whoever answered with "sonar" after hearing "A subtype of a technology named for this thing..." would be completely disabused of that logic if he had heard "phenomenon" instead? Which is why I made the argument that sonar could be interpreted as a natural phenomenon in the first place.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Ike » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:19 pm

Hairsplitting over sonar / sound while correct, I think touches on the bigger problem with this question. It's almost impossible to parse that text and make the jump from "oh that is side-scanning SONAR," and since that is a sub-type, "we're talking about SONAR," and thus the answer must be "sound" since sonar is a technology named for sound in fewer than five seconds. That's a crazy amount of mental gymnastics and divination - I agree that you can't accept the answer of sonar outright and if I had to rule on a protest in the question I would not accept it, but I think writing this question so that players don't have to jump all over the place in their heads before they can buzz in is probably the best solution.

Hypothetical suggestion - we're pretty late in the question, why not say "The "side-scanning" form of a certain technology uses waves of this thing"? That way, we just prevent anyone from buzzing in with sonar unless they just don't understand how English works without having to go through multiple layers of parsing - not saying this is perfect by any means, but just trying to get what I think is the heart of the issue.

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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Bloodwych » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:51 pm

This problem is endemic to questions that ask you to "name this thing/phenomenon named for another thing," which is in itself a bad quizbowl writing convention that should stop.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cody » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:02 pm

Ike wrote:Hypothetical suggestion - we're pretty late in the question, why not say "The "side-scanning" form of a certain technology uses waves of this thing"? That way, we just prevent anyone from buzzing in with sonar unless they just don't understand how English works without having to go through multiple layers of parsing - not saying this is perfect by any means, but just trying to get what I think is the heart of the issue.
I like this idea.
Bloodwych wrote:This problem is endemic to questions that ask you to "name this thing/phenomenon named for another thing," which is in itself a bad quizbowl writing convention that should stop.
Everything is a bad quizbowl writing convention when done wrong. I do not find this argument compelling or useful.
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Victor Prieto
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Victor Prieto » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:30 pm

Empirical evidence point: this went dead after various buzzes with "echolocation" and "sonar" in Pennsylvania vs. California went dead. The first buzz was after the word "bathymetric."

Editorial experience point: an answerline of sound in this context is what I'd classify as "experimental." I tend to be more generous than not in these situations, because the answer sometimes isn't readily apparent even if you know a clue clearly. Example:
PACE NSC 2016 wrote:ANSWER: cyclic compounds [or rings; or ring systems; or heterocycles; or macrocycles; or cycloalkanes; or cyclohexanes; or cyclobutanes; or cyclopropanes; prompt on aromatic] <Prieto>
In this question, there was a clue that specifically applied to the cyclic compound cyclopropane, but I didn't want to confuse people with real knowledge of banana bonds. So, I chose to accept cyclopropane as an answer, in addition to cyclic compounds.

In this case, the second to last sentence unquestionably refers to sonar. In its current wording of "A type of a technology named for this phenomenon uses a towfish to create a bathymetric profile and is the "side-scan" type," you can interpret the technology and phenomenon (bolded above) as either [side-scan sonar] + [sonar] OR [sonar] + [sound]. Pretty clear to me that the sentence doesn't plainly communicate whether you're looking for sound or sonar. Even if the wording did point to sound and only sound, this is clearly a description of side-scan sonar, so it doesn't make sense to penalize someone buzzing on that description with "sonar" when the pronoun could be interpreted to apply to sonar. And yes, Joelle is right that the word "phenomenon" could be used to apply to sonar.

EDIT: apparently the issue with the second to last sentence has been resolved, but my point still stands, future writers! also Ike is right about trying to minimize in-game mental gymnastics
Victor Prieto
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JKHtay
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by JKHtay » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:02 pm

Can I see the Nash question? It was odd to see him described as an economist, although certainly an interesting angle to write the question.
Justin Htay

Centennial HS 2016
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Cheynem
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cheynem » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:17 pm

6. This economist claimed that a world reserve currency from a country whose central bank controls its inflation rates could act as an asymptotically ideal money, such as the euro. This economist's paper "The Bargaining Problem" highlighted the importance of anticipation in negotiations. He used the Brouwer fixed-point theorem, rather than the Kakutani theorem, to expand on the work of John von Neumann (NOY-mahn) and Oskar Morgenstern in showing that non-cooperative scenarios always have at least one equilibrium. This subject of a biography by Sylvia Nasar names a scenario in which no player can improve their outcome by changing their strategy. For 10 points, name this pioneer of game theory who names an equilibrium and was the subject of the book A Beautiful Mind.
ANSWER: John Nash <Droge>
Mike Cheyne
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Periplus of the Erythraean Sea
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:57 am

Could I see the tossups on "lies" and "kings" in philosophy? I thought that the philosophy was pretty good for the most part, but these tossups struck me as rather poorly executed - the lies question seemed quite difficult and the "kings" in particular seemed like like it was bound to play out as a buzzer race on mention of Bertrand Russell.

EDIT: Also, that tossup on the Barons' Wars was awful, since it had two sentences of hilarious but really hard clues and then name-dropped one of the most famous documents involved in the conflicts, the Provisions of Oxford. It was only in a scrimmage game, but still.
Will Alston
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Cheynem
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cheynem » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:13 pm

Sorry about the Barons War tossup.

These are the lies and kings tossups; I am not sure if they were edited before your mirror (these are from the original QEMS):
A Kai von Fintel paper analyzes why people are able to declare as false the statement that one of their friends went on a drive with a person with this title. A paper by P.F. Strawson contrasts a sentence about Jones visiting a local swimming pool with one about a person of this title having yesterday visited an exhibition. The classic example of presupposition failure, which was introduced by Bertrand Russell, declares that a French holder of this title is bald. The rulers of Kallipolis would be both philosophers and hold this title, according to a section of The Republic. In Medieval Europe, these people claimed to have a "divine right" to hold power. For 10 points, identify these male monarchs who name the most important chess piece.
ANSWER: kings [or the King of France]
In her book on these things, Sissela Bok, the daughter of Gunnar Myrdal, writes about the "publicity test." In his 1797 periodical France, the philosopher Benjamin Constant defended the right of people to create these things. An 1873 essay whose title has these things as the second noun claims that "a mobile army of metaphors" and metonyms is the definition of truth. Kant's response to Constant described the supposed right to create them "from benevolent motives," instead arguing these things were always a violation of the principle of right, even if there was a murderer at your door. Nietzsche wrote an essay about truth and these things "in a nonmoral sense." For 10 points, Augustine defined what things as words that are said "with purpose to deceive"?
ANSWER: lies [accept obvious equivalents]
Wow, apparently I wrote the lies tossup.
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Formerly U of Minnesota

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Jason Cheng
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Jason Cheng » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:26 pm

A couple of minor errors I noticed yesterday:

The Pythagorean theorem bonus says that the sum of the squares of the side lengths equals the length of the hypotenuse, instead of the square of the length of the hypotenuse.

The phase transfer catalyst bonus part asks something like "they are catalysts that transfer them between these things" but the answer line was apparently phase transfer catalysts in full, leading to some moderator confusion when people answered "phases."
Jason Cheng
Arcadia High School 2013
UCSD 2017
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Cody
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cody » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:36 pm

Jason Cheng wrote:A couple of minor errors I noticed yesterday:

The Pythagorean theorem bonus says that the sum of the squares of the side lengths equals the length of the hypotenuse, instead of the square of the length of the hypotenuse.

The phase transfer catalyst bonus part asks something like "they are catalysts that transfer them between these things" but the answer line was apparently phase transfer catalysts in full, leading to some moderator confusion when people answered "phases."
Both of these are fixed, thank you! (minor note, the bonus previously required "phase transfer").
Cody Voight, VCU ‘14. I wrote lots of science and am an electrical engineer.
VCU Tournament Director ‘13-‘17. HSAPQ President ‘15-16.
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John Ketzkorn
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by John Ketzkorn » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:40 pm

I believe "avenue of the scribes" should be "Arcade of the Scribes" for the Love in the Time of Cholera toss-up. I can't find anywhere in the book where it's called "avenue".
Michael Etzkorn
Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy '16
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Periplus of the Erythraean Sea
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:14 am

Joker wrote:I believe "avenue of the scribes" should be "Arcade of the Scribes" for the Love in the Time of Cholera toss-up. I can't find anywhere in the book where it's called "avenue".
It could be a translation issue; Google seems to agree with you on this, but the original Spanish could have multiple reasonable translations. I'm not a native speaker so I can't fully grasp translation, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what is going on.
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Livia Did It
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Livia Did It » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:47 pm

Can I see the tossups on Providence and Tlaloc? I was curious about the clues mentioned before the Woonasquatucket River in the Providence tossup.
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Valefor
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Valefor » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:10 pm

Eric K wrote:Could I see the question on modes from round 3? I had an unresolved protest on a negged answer of harmonics.
Cheynem wrote:
19. In free space, examples of these things, which are not beams, take an Hermite–Gaussian (air-MEET GOW-see-in) form and are abbreviated TEM. For a Gaussian beam, a measure of how far out the beam goes before the intensity drops by a factor of e-squared is this term's "field diameter." Two indices are used to define the "guided" examples of these things, abbreviated LP, which are a common object of study in the context of optical fibers. Optical fibers can be divided into those that have one of these things and those that have multiple. For a system of masses, motions in which every mass moves with the same frequency is an example of these things, which occur at integer multiples of the fundamental frequency. For 10 points, name these things that are prefixed by "normal" to indicate special motions in a coupled oscillatory system.
ANSWER: modes <Voight>
This actually led to a protest in a game in the online mirror this past weekend, where I buzzed with the same answer and got negged. The phrase "integer multiples of the fundamental frequency" is a massive hose for "harmonics," especially if you have any knowledge at all of acoustics or music theory.
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Arkangel de la Muerte
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Arkangel de la Muerte » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:25 pm

Can I see the bonus on Dvorak? I really liked the last part as you got points for actually listening to the New World Symphony.
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Cheynem
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cheynem » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:52 pm

Segments of an interstate bridge were floated upriver from North Kingstown to this city as part of the Iway project. This city's Waterplace Park holds gatherings during which several fires are lit in a circular pattern just above the surface of the Woonsquatucket River. A notably gigantic statue of a blue termite serves as a roadside attraction in this city. The Seekonk River meets this city's namesake river at Fox Point, a former hub of the Atlantic slave trade. This city's College Hill is home to the United States's oldest Baptist church. This capital city lies at the northern end of Narragansett Bay and was founded by Roger Williams. For 10 points, name this home of Brown University and capital of Rhode Island.
ANSWER: Providence
During a wintertime festival dedicated to this god, amaranth dough idols of him are made and eaten. One of this god's manifestations, Nappatecuhtli, was the creator of tools for trade and hunting, and was one of the four cardinal directions and corners of the universe that this deity presided over. Along with the god of war, this deity was worshiped at the Templo Mayor. As the third sun, this god destroyed the world out of grief for his kidnapped wife Xochiquetzal. This god ruled over a cosmic domain characterized by vernal plant-life, the afterlife destination of people who drowned, were struck by lightning, and died of water-borne disease. Many child sacrifices were made to propitiate this deity. For 10 points, name this Aztec rain deity.
ANSWER: Tlaloc
This composer was inspired by folk music to write pieces such as the Dumky Trio and the American String Quartet. For 10 points each:
[10] Name this composer whose Cello Concerto in B minor was premiered in 1895 by Leo Stern.
ANSWER: Antonín Dvořák [or Antonín Leopold Dvořák]
[10] Inspired Native American and African-American musical traditions, this Dvořák symphony introduces the main theme of its Largo second movement with a solo for the English horn.
ANSWER: New World Symphony [or Symphony from the New World; or Symphony No. 9]
[10] Describe the rhythm of the first three notes of that English horn solo in terms of "LONG" and "short" notes. For example, the words "Let it be" follow a "short, short, LONG" rhythm in the Beatles song.
ANSWER: LONG short LONG
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota

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