Illinois 05-06

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David Riley
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Post by David Riley »

I imagine the Early Bird is a week later because 1) a lot of teams are not prepared to play that early in the year and 2) they would see that September date and panic without actually looking at the date. Of course, there could have been other reasons related to their own calendar.

Speak of U of I, there was no discussion with the IHSSBCA on setting the Solo date, it was simply set. The same thing happened last year.

As far as NAQT state, I set it when I did to (hopefully) get more teams.

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Post by Tegan »

Trevkeeper wrote:I was just looking at the schedule for next year, and a few things I noticed:

Since I was just talking about Earlybird, let's move onto another UIUC tournament, the Solo one. I suppose it's a good problem when the schobowl calendar is so filled that it's hard to find dates, I guess I'm just disappointed we wouldn't be able to attend (that's the same weekend as the WashU tournament). Admittedly, that does appear to be the best weekend for it, as we were one of the few, if not the only, team from Illinois to attend the WashU tournament last year. I'm not really mad at the choosing of the date, like I said, more just disappointed that we won't be able to go.
1. I predict NAQT state will get fewer attendees .... or at least will see no increase. Many coaches will not compete out of season, even if it is legal to do so.

2. Does not New Trier host a Solo? I am glad to see that there is a great opportunity for those players who can't make it to New Trier (timing? geography?), but its not hte end of the world if a New Trier player has to settle for playing the home fairways vs. going to Urbana. Remember, there is no "I" in team, or in Schobo Solo, but there is an "I" in U of I.

I am hoping that New Trier will make it out to a touranment run on the octangular questions. I have them all written (excet for the math), and have blocked out the toss-ups. They promise to be some really good questions this year (I hope).

BTW....Now that I have the lunch issue straightened out, I encourage good teams to come on down to the Maine South fr-soph tournament. We run a three period format:
1. TU only, no bonuses (very fast paced, but fewer points at stake)
2. written team bonus (no themes, they are alphabet sheets so noteam gets a really bad disadvnatage...unless they aren't very good).
3. Pyramid toss-ups (with bonuses) ..... the pyramid toss-ups are paired with bonus questions as these whould lead to maximum potential points being scored.

Unlike other tournaments, we do try to seed the morning based on the team's performance at other tournaments (we try to seperate the top 8 or so teams).

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Post by Captain Sinico »

Trevkeeper wrote:Why is the UIUC Earlybird a week later than last year? More importantly, why is it over Columbus Day weekend, a time that many families might choose to have a "weekend getaway" or whatnot. Was it just a conflict the team had? I thought the weekend they had last year was good (which would be Sept. 30th this year) and was wondering why they changed. It was my favorite tournament last year, so I don't want to miss it.
Basically, we took the latest weekend available. Since the tournament will be written over the summer, we might theoretically try to run the tournament on the 30th, but there are practical concerns there, too (namely, teams not wanting to attend a tournament in September and the fact that, as we'll have been in school for only one week at that time, we'll have a hard time finding sufficient staff.) If there's a lot of interest in moving the tournament, we might do so; just post here about it or e-mail me.

MaS

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Post by David Riley »

My preference would be for the 7th, but I would make sure (whichever date it is) to schedule it on a non-Illini football weekend. And make sure Garth Brooks isn't playing a concert! :roll:

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Post by dtaylor4 »

David Riley wrote:Speak of U of I, there was no discussion with the IHSSBCA on setting the Solo date, it was simply set. The same thing happened last year.
For the one in 2006, there was no discussion since I first came up with the idea of doing it in November of 2005, so I chose the best date I could. As for the 2007 Solo, the date chosen is tentative. After discussing dates with my fellow ABTers, I chose the January date as the tentative one. I am entertaining the idea of moving it to the same weekend as last year (a week after Masonic), but I'm not sure how many people would have to miss it due to ICTM. If someone who knows more about ICTM than I do could inform me of such, I might move it, pending further discussion.

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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

ICTM is huge state-wide, and often draws from Scobowl teams. For instance, Bago had to forfeit our Masonic sectional this year because everyone except for one junior and one sophomore were at ICTM instead. Some teams can go deeper (like 2006-07 Bago), but it'd still ruin a whole bunch of people's days (Justin Stoncius goes to ICTM, along with many others I cannot recall at the moment). It's generally a bad idea to conflict with ICTM, or for that matter IHSA Music Solo and Ensemble and Organizational Competitions (like Masonic State did this year).

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Post by David Riley »

And I know scheduling is getting more and more difficult to do, but it would also be better if the college-hosted tournaments consult with the Coaches' Association before scheduling a date, the way U of I's Early Bird and Northwestern have done.

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Post by Stained Diviner »

I don't think there is much that U of I can do to improve either date. My guess is that the two dates being discussed for Earlybird would draw the same number of teams. The fact that their Solo Tournament conflicts with a tournament that draws on average one Illinois team per year (breaking their previous record this year by drawing two teams) is something that we Trevians can lament but not something that anybody should blame anybody for. ICTM is not Scholastic Bowl, but the number of Scholastic Bowlers who participate is in the triple digits.

To anybody reading this, I'll put in some plugs--New Trier will be at U of I and Wash U because they are great tournaments. We will also be at a tournament using Octangular questions--most likely Fenwick--because they are good. If we cannot send anybody to UIUC Solo, then we will buy their questions and practice on them because they are good. We will also go to Northwestern NAQT and NAQT State and play in a conference that uses NAQT Illinois sets. We probably will be at Maine South's Frosh/Soph. We will also host a Solo Tournament and Team Tournament. I have also been in contact with the people in charge of questions for both of our state tournaments and Kickoffs (though I can't make any absolute promises about the state tournaments because I have made clear the fact that I should not be given any inside information).

It will be difficult to take seriously anybody who tells me that good questions in Illinois are impossible to find. I know that students cannot choose their tournaments, and that there is a lot of variety in quality from tournament to tournament, but good tournaments do exist.

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Post by Tegan »

ReinsteinD wrote:New Trier will be at U of I and Wash U because they are great tournaments. We will also be at a tournament using Octangular questions--most likely Fenwick--because they are good. If we cannot send anybody to UIUC Solo, then we will buy their questions and practice on them because they are good. We will also go to Northwestern NAQT and NAQT State and play in a conference that uses NAQT Illinois sets. We probably will be at Maine South's Frosh/Soph. We will also host a Solo Tournament and Team Tournament. I have also been in contact with the people in charge of questions for both of our state tournaments and Kickoffs (though I can't make any absolute promises about the state tournaments because I have made clear the fact that I should not be given any inside information).
What a lazy program......hardly doing anything worth mentioning ..... get out and do something once and a while for goodness sakes!

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Post by First Chairman »

David Riley wrote:My preference would be for the 7th, but I would make sure (whichever date it is) to schedule it on a non-Illini football weekend. And make sure Garth Brooks isn't playing a concert! :roll:
What!!??? I didn't know there was a refuge for Garth Brooks fans in Chambana.

Of course, we had to deal with the Red Hot Chili Peppers at the most recent Coca Cola 600 week prep...
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Post by First Chairman »

I should also ask... is there anyone in Illnois interested in mirroring High School Celebrity Shoot? It's a solo/team tournament that doesn't use buzzer systems... but it has gotten a lot of positive reviews. The questions aren't pure pyramidal since you have to write down your answers (like on the Jeopardy! tryout quiz), but I'm wondering if there's anyone who might be interested in trying something different.
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Post by David Riley »

Several of us love to try different formats; the problem is that our calendar is already pretty full!

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Post by dtaylor4 »

David Riley wrote:And I know scheduling is getting more and more difficult to do, but it would also be better if the college-hosted tournaments consult with the Coaches' Association before scheduling a date, the way U of I's Early Bird and Northwestern have done.
I understand the reasoning, but when planning the date for the ABT S6olo, I did have Sorice send me the tentative 06-07 Illinois schedule. I knew going in that I wanted to keep it in '07 since that leaves all of winter break to do most of the work. The one free weekend in February is ICTM, and in March we have a few tournaments, and there's NAQT, so I chose the best weekend I could. Even if I had discussed it with the IHSSBCA, the exact same result would occur since I doubt established tournaments (Sterling, Fenwick, HF, etc.) would likely change their dates to accomodate, and I wouldn't force them to.

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Post by Stained Diviner »

Dr. Chuck's offer is a kind one. I'll mention it on the IHSSBCA homepage if he doesn't mind. 10/14 and 11/4 might work even though they are SAT dates.

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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

What about having the Celebrity Shoot in April? I'm not sure when it is actually held, so mirroring it possibly months after the fact is probably not the greatest idea, but there are tons of free weekends once you're out of season.

Or, what about having it at a high school on a weekday, a la WYSE?

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Post by First Chairman »

In the past HSCS is held in the months of October or November. Due to availability at Case at Duke, the exact date rotates a bit due to campus orientation programs (Case) or some weird sport called football (Duke). Usually the Case tournament coincides with the ACT October date if I recall correctly, but it's not always that Saturday. I can deal with it being held in say April, or even on a weeknight, but one really has to have a good Saturday and fastidious and time-efficient graders to have it run properly.

As for having it be on a test-date weekend, HSCS is also formatted so that you can reward freshmen/sophomore participation. Usually the highest four F/S scores on the prelim test get recognition.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Recently I briefly entertained the notion of taking some sort of road trip to Ohio to play in the HSCS because it sounded really fun. I wouldn't expect to do all that well, but it seemed like a fun tournament. However, I saw that last year the date coinicided with a good tournament (I can't remember which, I just remember thinking it...either Northwestern or Solo, I think) so I sort of stopped thinking about it. If it's on an open date this year (like November 4th) I'd consider it again, and if it was mirrored in Illinois I'd definitely want to attend.
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Post by First Chairman »

The hard part about HSCS is that one has to get used to not having a buzzer system. As a result, the four team members contribute equally to the outcome, so you cannot really have a one- or two-person team win the entire event. Furthermore, the format allows for those "quiet kids" to get a chance to answer on their own and gain confidence in themselves rather than staying "wallflowers" as would be the case for a regular 4-on-4 match setting.

In addition, I usually let coaches compete. We also allow for mixed chimeric teams. Under ideal conditions, there are no alternates, and every single student who walks into the competition gets a taste somehow. Obviously the content does not allow people to solve math problems, and there is a bit more pop culture/sports than a regular academic tournament... but overall, it's been a great draw in the areas where I have run this event.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Yeah, for some reason I keep thinking it's a solo tournament and I don't know why.
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Post by First Chairman »

Trevkeeper wrote:Yeah, for some reason I keep thinking it's a solo tournament and I don't know why.
That's because to finish the tournament, there is a single-elimination solo finals. Like March Madness.

So it's both a team and an individual event. It's "golf play" (meaning everyone plays against the same set of questions) for the team event.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

With all these dates now being filled, what about the idea of having tournaments on a sunday? Is it just too much for one weekend? Or would it work? I dunno, just an idea that popped into my head.
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Post by David Riley »

I have always supported the idea of Sunday tournaments, it might be worth an experiment. However, be prepared for arguments along the lines of "you can't have a tournament on Sunday because 'everyone' will have religious obligations" or "since those people can't make it, then you shouldn't have it". It would be interested to see how many teams would compete on a Sunday.

My fear is that once and if it gets entrenched, we would then have a full calendar that includes Sunday tournaments. Much as I love this game, I don't want to see that.

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Post by GreyGhost06 »

So while we are on the subject of next year, would anyone like to venture a "preseason" top ten? I can imagine it will look quite different from last year, with all the talent graduating. I don't know enough about the teams in Illinois, or I would start.

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Post by dtaylor4 »

I'm not venturing a list, but if you don't include Bloomington and Carbondale, you're nuts. Both teams returning all-staters, and Bloomington is only losing one A-teamer (vikram karamdikar) to graduation. Auburn ALWAYS reloads, and New Trier is bringing back some talent. Will make for an interesting year, and I hope all these teams come down for the two U of I tournaments.

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Post by Sympathy300021 »

Hmm, yeah, I'd put Bloomington, Carbondale, Wheaton North, and New Trier way up there. Auburn and Fremd will do well as well, I think. I'm not going to put an actual rank thing because I'd probably jinx us by doing so. Local matches on Sunday afternoons would be cool, but I wouldn't want to travel more than an hour each way on both Saturday and Sunday.

This is Hunter from Bloomington, I just changed my username for a multitude of reasons.

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Post by Tegan »

I'm going to get rapped on the palm for this, but I think the real story is not the talent leaving, but the talent remaining.

Wheaton North is losing some good people .... but there's at least one player who will be sticking around for the foreseeable future.

Bloomington will not be reloading at all ..... they will only be back with a vengeance.

New Trier is losing some talent, but the junior class they currently have will be nothing short of a monster beasts next year.

Maine East is also bringing back a bulk of their starters from a team (no offense to New Treir) that should have been in Peoria.

My Maine South started a virtually all junior team, and three of them are off to ACE. They won 40 on a harder schedule than the previous year, and should be better (on paper) than this year.

Wheaton-Warrenville South will finally see some of the stars from their world-beater frosh-soph team coming up to varsity.

Oak Park-River Forest doesn't do much, but they are returning a half-way decent Regional championship team that was mostly juniors.

Auburn will likely be doing a partial reload .... some of their varsity starters will be stepping out of the shadows (so to speak), and with a virtually limitless talent pool, they will certainly be on top of things.


This was a record year for underclassmen to earn All-State honors. I think that next year will be bonzer for a lot of teams.

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Post by Trevkeeper »

I believe that Oak Park-River Forest's coach said that her team this year (at least the one they had at sectionals) was all juniors. If they go to more tournaments next year (I saw them at Kickoff and Wheaton North, dunno where else they went) they could be very good. Check that, they already are very good, they could be even better if they go to more tournaments.

Lake Zurich's F/S team last year was studly, they could be sleepers next year (and if not then, then the year after).

Maine South will be good, for the reasons Mr. Egan already mentioned.

I think Fremd is graduating all their starters, but they're Fremd, so they'll be good.

Auburn returns John and Siva, so that should be a nice core for next year.

Maine East still has Erin and Alex (and possibly all the rest of their starters) so they will still be a state caliber team.

Bloomington next year is just plain scary. Carbondale too.

Loyola is losing some senior talent, but they have a real good F/S team coming up, plus Roman who is a junior this year.

I know that Kenny and Michael from Deerfield are returning, I'm not sure about the rest of the team. They'll still be very good.

Wheaton North...they are Wheaton North, do I really have to say why they'll be good?

How will Fenwick be? I'm not sure who they graduated.

I refuse to rank the teams, and I'm sure I'm missing some still from this little write up. There's always a team or two that shocks the entire state.
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Post by Stained Diviner »

Stevenson will be good if they want to be.

Between Lutheran, MacArthur, and St. Teresa, there will be at least one top tier team from Decatur.

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Post by dtaylor4 »

As the resident Decatur expert, I'll throw in an extra 2 cents.

MacArthur is returning all juniors and some underclassmen. If they start getting to work, they'll be dangerous, but who knows if they will.

Between LSA (Decatur Lutheran) and St. T, LSA will win out. Jon Ryherd is back, and almost single-handedly took down the Masonic Sectional, losing to Springfield in an interesting final and took 4th at State. I can't wait to moderate more matches around here to see how this develops.

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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

1: Bloomington: The most balanced team this year escapes an Elite Eight year and only graduated one science player? Plan for a trophy in Peoria for these guys.

2: New Trier: Carlo and Nick are doing what every college player says makes you better; writing questions. Throw in the fact that between Carlo's math, science, and music and Nick's humanities, all they need is one social studies player to become as balanced as Bloomington. (I don't know if they have it or not, and I'm decently sure that Reinstein isn't going to divulge such information :) )

3: Carbondale: While they probably won't reach second place again, they will still be good. If IHSA changes the pool structure like the rules say they do, then it'll be harder to make the top 4. Nonetheless, they will have a successful year dominating the southern circuit, and will make state for a third straight year.

4: Wheaton North: Could Greg Gauthier turn into Paul over the next 2 years? This year will be the telling year, as in his first two years, Wheaton North lost big names and dropped down in the final trophy rankings. Now, with a seemingly rebuilding year around Greg (only 4 non-seniors at Peoria for WN), can he do it alone? (Or does WN have a stellar cast of juniors that I haven't seen?)

5: Winnebago: On the subject of balanced teams, Winnebago is planning a switch from one end of the spectrum to the other. Watch out next year; I was keeping several good underclassmen out of the buzzing spotlight. I'm might be reaching a bit, and I'm probably biased, and there's probably a bit of "I haven't seen WN's F-S," and the like, but I'm sure this year will surprise many who thought we were going to dive back under the radar.

6: Auburn: Has anyone graduated more talent since the Wheaton North team four years ago? This team does not have a senior graduating next year. There were no juniors on last year's team. For being the magnet for Rockford's gifted, they are going to have a small team next year: Only John, Siva, and Michael have any A-team experience. For the last two years, they've picked up the captain of the reigning Middle School State Championship team. This year, Rockford West didn't win a regional.

My predictions: Auburn will win sectionals, because it is a weak sectional and impossible to lose behind John and Siva (only Boylan, Hononegah, and Kaneland present any trouble...I don't forsee Auburn failing to win this sectional). They will not get a trophy. 2007-08 will be the year Auburn wins state if it is ever going to happen.

Teams I don't know enough about to rank, but belong in the top 10 somewhere: Maine South, Maine East, Fenwick, Loyola.

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Post by leapfrog314 »

Oak Park-River Forest will be good, and ought to go to more tournaments. They are graduating nobody, and they have some extremely good math students (Andy and John) who compete for ARML. Hence prediction #1: OPRF will continue to capitalize more than anybody else on IHSA's emphasis on math computation, and if they do more next year, will do very well. If they decide to travel, they are the top sleeper, IMHO. I have been dutifully pestering Andy on Facebook, keeping my fingers crossed that they would not stand in NT's way. :smile:

The standards: Wheaton North...has Greg. New Trier is bringing back me and Nick, and is bringing up good talent from JV. Fremd is a total question mark, to me at least. Naturally, they won't totally suck. Auburn graduated talent, but has more left -- we'll see. Bloomington...will be very good. As will Carbondale. Fenwick, I have no idea who they're graduating. Maine South will still not be nearly as easy to beat as I would sometimes hope.

I am personally afraid of Maine East, because they would be the team to keep NT from a CSL conference win. (Well, them and Deerfield. But Maine East looks a lot scarier.)

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Post by Tegan »

leapfrog314 wrote:As will Carbondale. Fenwick, I have no idea who they're graduating.
D'oh!! I forgot Carbondale on the list of teams with top returning players. They indeed will be good. Fenwick, as far as I can tell, is getting hit pretty hard by graduation. IMO, they were the best team to not be at state last year. No offense to NT, but had Fenwick not shot itself in the foot at Sectionals, I think they really could have (on paper) won.

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Post by David Riley »

Congratulations to Team Illinois for a job well done at Panasonic. While we didn't win the gold, our score of 487 is certainly nothing to be ashamed of (and I'm trying to confirm whether or not that is the highest score since the beginning of the tournament).

Matt McKenna and Tyler Kerr have graduated. We will hold tryouts for all spots next year (and a week later than this year, hopefully avoiding any Super Bowl conflicts).

If you want to improve your chances, and it's never too early to start, I recommend the following:

1) Review as much of your specialty as you can. The teams that consistently win, place, or show in Panasonic have a strong knowledge base.

2) Play as many tournaments as you can, and in a variety of formats. Playing Illimois-format only is poor preparation for Panasonic. If nothing else, seek out tournaments that test the higher level thinking skills of analysis, application, and synthesis, not just quick recall.

Messrs. Egan and Pitz shold weigh in on this as well.

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Post by Tegan »

David Riley wrote: If you want to improve your chances, and it's never too early to start, I recommend the following:

1) Review as much of your specialty as you can. The teams that consistently win, place, or show in Panasonic have a strong knowledge base.

2) Play as many tournaments as you can, and in a variety of formats. Playing Illimois-format only is poor preparation for Panasonic. If nothing else, seek out tournaments that test the higher level thinking skills of analysis, application, and synthesis, not just quick recall.
I think Coach Riley means "Illinois-format" (though who am I to criticize spelling)

I am desperately trying to fit a PACE mirror into the schedule, and the good news is that I may have succeeded in doing so ....regretfully, the only day I can squeeze it in is on the day of Fremd's big tournament. For those who have not attended PACE (which is pretty much every team in Illinios), it is a great tournament, and a great warmup for nationals whether you are planning on NAQT or PACE, or trying out for Panasonic.

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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

IHSA.org has some interesting information...from the June meeting of the Board of Directors.
Scholastic Bowl: approved a lengthy series of recommendations aimed at improving the management of the state series at all levels.
Entire website

Would that "lengthy series" be thislist of recommendations? Please? :)

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Post by Stained Diviner »

I think that they are referring to this list, which is pretty much the same thing.

:) indeed!

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Post by Siverus Snape »

Was every single one of the recommendations approved?

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Post by Tegan »

According to the information I have recently received from Bloomington, yes. These include some late additions from the Central Committee:

1. Moderators may now issue yellow cards for players taking a dive when there was no clear foul.

2. Intentional elbows will results in red cards.

3. Any player earning two yellow cards in the sectional may not particiapte at state.

4. Scholastic Bowl will now be forever known as "The Beautiful Game".

5. Jay "The Tool" Mariotti may not cover any Scholastic Bowl games.

6. If a player intentionally throws at a player from the other team after a warning has been issued, the player and coach will both be ejected.

7. It is no longer legal for a coach to demote a player to the JV for refusing to retaliate against a player from the other team.

8. No modertors from Uruguay will be permitted to officiate Scholastic Bowl matches.

9. Teams will be required to exchange token gifts of love, peace, and friendship before tripping, elbowing, and gouging each other's eyes; and then take off their uniform shirts and exchange them afterwards.

10. If a game is tied after regulation, to boost self esteem, the game will be recorded as a tie. Teams are then required to hug each other since they're both winners!

11. If the state final is tied after regulation, it goes to penalty kicks.

12. When the President of the IHSA attempts to hand the trophy to the State Champs, by rule, Shaquille O'Neal may choose to take it out of his/her hands and present it himself.

13. The best development: the state AA champion now wins the Stanley Cup, which the IHSA recently purchased on e-bay from the soon to be bankrupt NHL. However, no one is permitted to scratch out Wayne Gretzky's name when their names are engraved on it. the state A champion will now get the Conn Smythe trophy which looks cooler than the Cup), which will have its maple leaf torn off and replaced with an ear of corn ...... the depiction of the Tornto Arena will be replaced with a depiction of the Peoria Civic Center.

harpersferry
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Post by harpersferry »

I think the World Cup is getting to you, Mr. Egan

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dtaylor4
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Post by dtaylor4 »

Please take note that down here, out of Egan's "additions", few will see implemenation in these parts, as many coaches will be frustrated by the change.

dschafer
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Post by dschafer »

Well done, Tegan; that was one of the funniest posts I've read in months! May I suggest that after each round of the playoffs, the teams must line up at center ice and shake hands? Also, teams should rap their buzzers against the wall to show appreciation after a particularly good buzz.
Dan Schafer
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Thomas Jefferson '06

Sympathy300021
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Post by Sympathy300021 »

Quite amusing. Did anyone see the Colbert Report where he was making fun of the countries that were the US team's opponents? That was off-topic, I know. This may be a crazy idea, but should we be making an Illinois '06-'07 topic?

Siverus Snape
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Post by Siverus Snape »

I don't think that would be a bad idea at all, considering the earliest part of the season is about three months away or so.

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