Bringing In Girls....

Frater Taciturnus · Post by **Frater Taciturnus** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:12 am

Perhaps this is just a strange phemonenon at my school, but have any captains and people doing recruiting for teams noticed that it is often very difficult to actually bring in, train, and get commitments from girls? My team, has not managed to have a girl come to anything with us this year. Perhaps it is just a social stigma. Anyway, if anyone has suggestions for solving this problem and bringing in girls, I hope they will share.

miamiqb · Post by **miamiqb** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:42 am

The same was true in high school for our team. We had no girls most years and only convinced two (very smart) girls to join for my senior year based on friendship. Now in college we only have one girl and I think she comes mostly because her boyfriend is on the team.

The ironic thing is that girls (more so at the hs level) tend to fill in the huge gaps many all-boy squads have in lit, music, and art.

I think the major problem is that most people (boys and girls) do not like to be alone in a group. For example, I would feel a bit uncomfortable joining an all-girl club. I suggest trying to initially recruit any girls you know personally AND ask them to bring friends. They will feel a lot more (edit: comfortable) with other girls on the team and are more likely to stick on the team.

Tegan · Post by **Tegan** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:08 pm

Since I took over as Coach three years ago, three of my four varsity captains have been girls, and next year will see my fourth in a row. All of them were excellent in that capacity (from what I've seen, captains have more duties and more responsibilities in Illinois than in other states....they have a lot more to do in terms of "running" the team during a match).

Currently, out of 14 Varsity players (hardly a really big team), six of them are girls, two of whom are regular starters on a team that I am targeting to go around 30-20.

The biggest problem I have with recruiting girls is that our area has many athletic and artistic opportunities for girls, and many are pushed into one ro both at an early age. Thus by the time I get them, they are taking violin, swimming, playing golf and soccer, and taking 3-4 AP classes starting their sophomore year. That makes it difficult to convince them that their life is incomplete without scholastic bowl. Actually, that's the same problem with recruiting guys.

I agree with Miamiqb.....if there are already some girls on the team, that makes it a lot easier to get more. My first year, I had six players, but only two girls.....one of whom was very charismatic, nice, and warmhearted, and I think that made a huge difference in recruiting (for the record, she has since gone on to Northwestern, and to my knowledge is competing there as well).

radiantradon · Post by **radiantradon** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:13 pm

I was the only girl on quiz bowl my sophomore year, my junior year there were a few but the starting players were me and three guys. This year, two other girls and I go into competition with the rest of the team.

Girls tend to be a little bit more buzzer-shy. I know one thing that scares a lot of people (of both sexes) away from quiz bowl is the fear that they won't know anything, or that everyone will think they are stupid. When I was recruiting people to join our school's intramural league, I kept having to convince them that nobody will point and laugh if they say a wrong answer.

The second deterrant is the interference of other activities, and girls are definitely more prone to the pianosoccerballet syndrome than guys (I did all of those at one point or another

). But the flip side is that guys on our team play sports, and they somehow find a way to make it work out instead of just saying "Oh I'm too busy I can't do that."

Actually it's kind of sad, I get weirded out if I see a team with more than two girls playing. It's like "Wait, what are you doing here, there aren't any girls in quiz bowl!" The same thing goes for math competitions.

DrakeRQB · Post by **DrakeRQB** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:25 pm

In our program (12 people), we have four girls - including two of our top four. However, in the three years I played in high school my team only had one girl on it, and she was only there my first year.

Whenever we go to tournaments, the girls on my team are always curious as to why nearly every other team is all guys. And I don't really have a good answer for that question.

quizbowllee · Post by **quizbowllee** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:28 pm

My first year playing at Athens State University, I got to see the "other side" of this scenario. I was the only guy on a team with three girls. This was weird for me, because I had never been on a team with even one girl before. There were girls on my team in high school, but they weren't starters and consequently I never played in a tournament with one of them on my team.

Also of interest is the fact that the very next year at Athens, there were three guys and the same three girls... The three guys were starters and the three girls rotated playing time. This wasn't a sexist thing, it was just that the girls were more timid.

I will point out that I have one girl starting on the high school team I coach, and she is a dynamo. Also, one year I had a huge middle school team. When we went to tournaments, I'd split them into four teams. One team was all girls. They killed just about everyone they played, usually only losing in play-off matches to their own "A" team.

Right now, I have four girls on my high school team. I have six boys.

On my middle school team, I have seven boys and six girls.

BobGHHS · Post by **BobGHHS** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:01 pm

Last year on our state-runner up varsity team (and actually the year before as well) we had two guys and two girls. However, in the 6 years I've coached, I've seen the girls on my team go from like 5 out of like 12 players to like 3 out of 10 players and this year 1 out of 8 players. I have enough trouble attracting committed boys to come out, let alone the girls. I agree with you guys, having girls there beforehand definitely is a key. I don't think there is an significant difference in ability or potential.

insaneindian · Post by **insaneindian** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:16 pm

on our 5-6 teams...

, we have about 5 or 6 girls
although our A team is four guys, (Chinese, Chinese, Chinese...and me

) the difference in talent between the girls and guys on our teams isnt that great although the guys are more aggressive which is a bit necessary in QB

blazer06 · Post by **blazer06** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:46 pm

We have a few girls, although most only joined this year, and I think at least half of our A team will be girls next year after we leave...among the underclassmen on our team, I actually feel the girls are better than the guys...and they do fill in gaps on lit/art/music quite well. Of course, they also talk really quietly and make it quite impossible for anybody to hear what they're saying, but then again, that happens with the underclassmen guys, too.

although the guys are more aggressive which is a bit necessary in QB

We sort of have the opposite problem. Some of the guys are too aggressive....and buzz in with very little reason, if any - the girls are more moderate and know when to, and perhaps more importantly, when not to buzz.

insaneindian · Post by **insaneindian** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:10 pm

just a question, have there been any dominant (or just really good) female players in HS or college quizbowl in recent history?

bigtrain · Post by **bigtrain** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:23 pm

Yes. Jaline Gerardin from State College was, I believe, probably considered one of the best player in the country her senior year (her sister is SC's captain this year and shes very good too). I never actually saw her play though, so there's a good chance I'm wrong.

Edit: Just thought I'd add we havn't had a girl starting on the A team in 9 years.

ProsperoSMS · Post by **ProsperoSMS** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:44 pm

I'm now at an all-girls school, but before that I coached at a large public school, and we normally had at least a third (even up to a half) of our team (which often got as large as 20-25) who were female. We had at least one girl in our top four each year, with one year with half our A-team female.

Matthew D · Post by **Matthew D** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:36 am

Right now on my team we have
9 Girls and 8 Boys but as Lee said most of the time the girls are bit more timid but at times they can be "fire-brands" but I have notice that the girls are better at getting more people to ask me about trying out for quiz bowl in the next year. (we are a new team so this is very good)

alkrav112 · Post by **alkrav112** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:08 am

Sara Garnett from Okemos was, I believe, the top scoring female at NAQT Nationals last year, and having played against her several times, I can attest to her greatness. I think she's at UNC Chapel Hill now. What made her great, in my opinion, was that she played very agressively and was not afraid to buzz.
My high school team had several girls, but only one who, by my senior year, was a permanent fixture on the team, and often, she was a benchwarmer. But she had a real enthusiasm for the game, and I think that females have a certain edge over most males in quiz-bowl insomuch as they tend to remain more cool-headed. The ideal team captain, I believe, would be a female.

Tegan · Post by **Tegan** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:34 am

insaneindian wrote:just a question, have there been any dominant (or just really good) female players in HS or college quizbowl in recent history?

I sadly forget her name, but there was a gal from Okemos in Michigan that played quite well...I seem to recall her team did pretty good at the NAQT championships.

The two most dominant girls I ever saw in Illinois were Kelly Tourdot and Lori Sommars. Kelly is at Illinois now, but led her team to the small school state championship her senior year. She was also on the Illinois team that did not make the finals at Panasonic. She might be one of the best players in the arts I ever saw. Lori sadly never continued her playing career in college (the college did not have a team), but may become a coach at some point. She played on a state runner-up, then captained a state champion in the big school division, and played on the Illinois team that finished second at Panasonic. She is probably the best captain I ever saw (she really knew how to run a team during a match).

Stained Diviner · Post by **Stained Diviner** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:33 am

It is odd that so many responses are from teams that have a significant number of girls. My team currently has no girls that regularly show up, and many of our matches are five boys vs. five boys. I would estimate that about 80% of participants in Illinois Scholastic Bowl are boys.

I co-coach with a woman, and I have had girls captain before. I would like to have more students on my team, period.

I do agree with what many people have said above--it is difficult for a girl to be on an all-boy team (other than her). I had a girl who did it several years ago, and there were many discussions where she was on one side of an issue while the rest of team was on the other side. She would occasionally have boys on other teams whom she had no interest in at all and had not met ask her for her number, an experience she did not enjoy.

I'm not sure what the solution is. I wish that more girls felt like this was a place where they belonged. Fortunately, some of them do participate and thrive.

Ben Dillon · Post by **Ben Dillon** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:55 pm

Perhaps the poll should have been rephrased using percentages, since 3/4 girls on a team is rather different from 3/40 girls.

My varsity is 3 girls out of 8 players; JV is 6 girls out of 20 players. Since the top JV players are boys, I wouldn't be surprised if next year is completely male-dominated at both levels.

Additionally, I've noticed that far more boys try out now than when our coach was female. My hunch is that girls feel a little more comfortable trying out if they see a female in charge.

Ben :D

David Riley · Post by **David Riley** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:13 pm

I currently have 1 girl on my varsity team and 3 girls on my frosh/soph team.

My experience has been that females will not stick with the team unless they are strong-willed and independent.

Unfortunately I've had several experiences with girls that I have never had with boys:

1) Two females join the team (this helps the timid factor). Then, they get into a knock-down, drag-out (usually over a boy) and both of them quit the team because "I won't play if she's playing"!

2) You have several females on the team, all of whom are slated to play a Saturday tournament. One of them calls me Thursday night and explains that she hates to give short notice, but her boss really needs her. Since I have extra people and she has always been dedicated, otherwise, I say there isn't a problem. Within the hour, the other two girls all of a sudden remember a previous commitment.

One year we did gender equity in clubs and sports as part of our North Central accreditation, and we did indeed find that more females joined clubs if there was a female as the coach/moderator.

It has actually been suggested that I dumb down the activity in order to attract more females. Not only is that an insult to females, forget that!!!

insaneindian · Post by **insaneindian** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:39 pm

alkrav112 wrote:Sara Garnett ... played very agressively and was not afraid to buzz.

yeah, she kind of took it to us the round she played against us. she basically scored all her teams tossup points. they beat us by like 60 or something. we were frustrated...after getting to 5-2, we lost two in a row. ok, end of my rant

First Chairman · Post by **First Chairman** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:56 pm

Warning: you just pushed a hot-button for me. I could try to write about this for hours.

Oh there is a lot out there about girls in "testing" settings, and I just came from one of those meetings. Society being as it is in the US, girls are not really encouraged to be "aggressive," and "aggressive" or "smart" girls are not always popular or well-liked in high school (or some segments of society). Somehow, popularity is a big thing in high school... .

To that effect, a program has to be welcoming to girls and other diverse groups on the team. I should also mention that a school's teachers and administrators should also do as much as they can to encourage students from different backgrounds to try out, and the fellow students should do whatever it takes to include those student members in and out of the practice or competitive environment.

Frater Taciturnus · Post by **Frater Taciturnus** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:06 pm

Ben Dillon wrote:Perhaps the poll should have been rephrased using percentages, since 3/4 girls on a team is rather different from 3/40 girls.

My varsity is 3 girls out of 8 players; JV is 6 girls out of 20 players. Since the top JV players are boys, I wouldn't be surprised if next year is completely male-dominated at both levels.

Additionally, I've noticed that far more boys try out now than when our coach was female. My hunch is that girls feel a little more comfortable trying out if they see a female in charge.

Ben :D

Duly noted. I had not anticipated that many large teams. (Are there really teams of 40?! I've never seen more than say 12-15.) Anyway, we have a female coach, and have no girls who show up regularly. I have begun to

around to find people, however it has been a hassle.

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 pm

David Riley wrote:Unfortunately I've had several experiences with girls that I have never had with boys:

1) Two females join the team (this helps the timid factor). Then, they get into a knock-down, drag-out (usually over a boy) and both of them quit the team because "I won't play if she's playing"!

2) You have several females on the team, all of whom are slated to play a Saturday tournament. One of them calls me Thursday night and explains that she hates to give short notice, but her boss really needs her. Since I have extra people and she has always been dedicated, otherwise, I say there isn't a problem. Within the hour, the other two girls all of a sudden remember a previous commitment.

It's been my experience that either of these is just as likely to happen with either boys or girls. I've never experienced the full situation you described in #1, but I've seen a few circumstances where some people wouldn't play well together due to teenage sexual tension from similar circumstances.

The primary format in my location allows teams to confer at all times. Hence good communication and the ability to work well together play an important part. I stress this to my teams and make them aware that if I'm forced to choose, I'll choose the person who's willing to be a team player.

cvdwightw · Post by **cvdwightw** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:47 pm

One interesting phenomenon I saw was at a UC Irvine tournament in November where approximately half of the top scorers, including I think two out of the top three, were female. I don't know what this means, nor do I remember what the exact PPG were, but it was quite unusual in such a traditionally male-dominated activity.

Post by **DumbJaques** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:15 pm

Howard wrote:

I've never experienced the full situation you described in #1, but I've seen a few circumstances where some people wouldn't play well together due to teenage sexual tension from similar circumstances.

Well that was nice and horrifying of you to share with us, Gilbert.

I can't actually imagine someone (a committed someone, anyway) quitting quizbowl because they had an ex on the team. Is quizbowl dating that serious of an issue anyway? I would think the ratio, the courtesy not to ask someone out after seeing them for the whole 20 minutes it took them to beat you (what is wrong with people in Illinois), and general geekiness would all act to prevent such situations from really occurring.

dtaylor4 · Post by **dtaylor4** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:27 pm

DumbJaques wrote:Howard wrote:
I've never experienced the full situation you described in #1, but I've seen a few circumstances where some people wouldn't play well together due to teenage sexual tension from similar circumstances.

Well that was nice and horrifying of you to share with us, Gilbert.

I can't actually imagine someone (a committed someone, anyway) quitting quizbowl because they had an ex on the team. Is quizbowl dating that serious of an issue anyway? I would think the ratio, the courtesy not to ask someone out after seeing them for the whole 20 minutes it took them to beat you (what is wrong with people in Illinois), and general geekiness would all act to prevent such situations from really occurring.

Dude, come on. Enough ripping on Illinois. I'm assuming Riley was referring to players on the same team dating. As for your beef with Illinois, I didn't like the 10 seconds for non-comp, but those are the rules. There is much bureaucracy here, as evidence I present the attempts to make scholastic bowl more like other sports such as the matching tops rule.

wwellington · Post by **wwellington** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:10 pm

I don't think girls getting asked out by random QuizBowl boys is extremely common. Comically awkward stalking occurs more frequently.

insaneindian · Post by **insaneindian** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:21 pm

wwellington wrote:I don't think girls getting asked out by random QuizBowl boys is extremely common. Comically awkward stalking occurs more frequently.

We have some stories...
im guessing you are sara garnett? (okemos then UNC in your "location")

dsfcaptains2005 wrote:(Are there really teams of 40?! I've never seen more than say 12-15.)

we have 29 members on our team, 25 of which come to practice at least once a week (we have TUE-THURS practices)

LadyInBlack · Post by **LadyInBlack** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:23 pm

Being one of few IL female varsity players/starters AND one of few girls in Science Olympiad AND WYSE AND adventure gamers etc, as far as scholastic bowl goes - at least in IL- girls who stick with it are normally casual/not particularly special and are just finishing, or they're a great dominant force to be reckoned with. Unlike guys, most girls don't fall in between. Besides most students in general don't want to seem too brainy. Girls, especially. Note it's always "that smart girl who never talks" not the quiet guy.
To recruite girls: A) Don't make it seem like you're trying to recruite girls. Many of us consider that offensive. B) Don't have your team be overtly exclusive to a gender. I.e. If your guy team wears ties, stop. It makes things feel like you are unwelcome as a girl for changing things. C) Don't differentiate.

bigtrain · Post by **bigtrain** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:30 pm

One major issue I could see a team with girls having is in the travel aspect of quizbowl. How can you justify getting one hotel room for three male players and another room for just one female player. Unless you have very liberal policies, I doubt any team would allow coed room occupancy.

insaneindian · Post by **insaneindian** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:33 pm

yeah we had that problem last year. she brought her mom along and they had a room, so it wasnt much of a "problem". this was at HSNCT. this year, we are taking one to Qunlimited in SA too. again, shouldnt be a problem

mhanna · Post by **mhanna** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:43 pm

Through the years, Brookwood, Walton and Dorman have all had outstanding female players. My best player is female. My captain a few years back was female, as was last year. Generally, I reserve seat one for my most skilled player. Two years ago, that player was female. She was not a girly girl, but had ice water in her veins. With an exotic name like Natasha, I knew that she had to be good. Did I say that I was sexist? She was a four-year starter. She played healthy or sick and played the game with passion. Her baby sister will play next year and has already thrown the sibling rivalry card at me, "I want to beat her."

I forget her name, but several years ago, Eleanor Roosevelt had an outstanding female player. She went on to become the Jeopardy college champion out of tanford. Fortunately for us, we were able to beat her twice in national competitions because of turnovers. She was fast and would blister any boy around. Amanda Goad out of the Governor's School was extremely talented. Hope that this helps.

wwellington · Post by **wwellington** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:47 pm

We have some stories...

I never had to deal with it, but our starting team had three girls for my freshman and sophomore years, and Yan got some fun attention. We all just kind of laughed at it and it didn't scare anyone away, but I guess the fear of creepy QuizBowl boys might keep some girls away (I've never seen it be too big of an issue, though - certainly nothing big enough that it couldn't just be laughed off).

And yeah, I'm Sara.

Also, about the hotel rooms...I don't really see why you have to "justify" getting a hotel room with only one girl. If there's an issue with coed hotel rooms (usually doesn't go over too well in high school) and you only have one girl, it's just what you do.

Trevkeeper · Post by **Trevkeeper** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:28 pm

At a tournament last weekend, the team we played in the quarterfinals was all female. Well, there was one guy, but he didn't start, and he wasn't there the other time we played the team.

insaneindian · Post by **insaneindian** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:38 pm

the two girls from blake are pretty good.

miamiqb · Post by **miamiqb** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:49 pm

mhanna wrote:Through the years, Brookwood, Walton and Dorman have all had outstanding female players. My best player is female. My captain a few years back was female, as was last year. Generally, I reserve seat one for my most skilled player. Two years ago, that player was female. She was not a girly girl, but had ice water in her veins. With an exotic name like Natasha, I knew that she had to be good. Did I say that I was sexist? She was a four-year starter. She played healthy or sick and played the game with passion. Her baby sister will play next year and has already thrown the sibling rivalry card at me, "I want to beat her."

I forget her name, but several years ago, Eleanor Roosevelt had an outstanding female player. She went on to become the Jeopardy college champion out of tanford. Fortunately for us, we were able to beat her twice in national competitions because of turnovers. She was fast and would blister any boy around. Amanda Goad out of the Governor's School was extremely talented. Hope that this helps.

That would be vinitha kailasanth I believe.

radiantradon · Post by **radiantradon** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:09 pm

LadyInBlack wrote: To recruite girls: A) Don't make it seem like you're trying to recruite girls. Many of us consider that offensive. B) Don't have your team be overtly exclusive to a gender. I.e. If your guy team wears ties, stop. It makes things feel like you are unwelcome as a girl for changing things. C) Don't differentiate.

I have to agree, point A is really annoying. All of the "women in engineering" college spam I got in the mail this year was annoying too. It's almost like a college is saying "Engineering is hard. It's especially hard for girls because we have such busy social lives. Wouldn't you love to study calculus with other girls? You can watch Oprah and do problem sets together!" No.

Point B doesn't really bother me, our team wears coats and ties to some events but I just wear slacks and a blazer.

Actually, I don't think there's a problem with having more guys than girls in quiz bowl. It doesn't bother me; most of the time I don't even notice it. If there are girls on your team who are fantastic, that's great, just don't go out of your way to recruit girls who might not be any good.

thepowerofche · Post by **thepowerofche** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:36 am

Next year, Brookwood may actually have an all-girl A team. It's gonna be crazy go nuts, especially since the majority of the varsity team will be guys.

fancynancy · Post by **fancynancy** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:57 am

I go to an all-girls' school now, but I have also had the experience of being the only girl on the team in the past. I can remember one time my freshman year at Grissom when the captain made me run out of practice crying, but overall I liked it. I still have male friends from middle school and freshman year quizbowl that I talk to at least on occasion. It was definitely a good experience--I got to hang out with a bunch of intelligent people, very different from me (obviously, since they're male), and even learned how to deal with a few arrogant jerks.

I love love love quizbowl, and I think everyone should be encouraged to try it out. However, its not for everyone. Where I go to school now, some (not all!) of the girls like to play with the buzzers, but they whine about how we should wait until the end of the question to buzz in, or how we should only do pop culture questions or things we've covered in classes. From my experience, this tends to be pretty common with girls my age. Most of my friends who are like this may be plenty smart, but they don't want to appear too intellectual, which I think is kind of silly. However, you can't force people to have intellectual curiosity, and intellectual curiosity is a big part of quiz bowl. You have to want to expand your knowledge base to grow as a player. Some want to, some don't.

Quiz bowl will draw who it draws. Girls, in general, should definitely be encouraged to participate more, but if it's not their thing, then so be it.

I don't think I'd like quiz bowl as much if it were not male dominated. Testosterone is a fabulous thing.

orangecrayon · Post by **orangecrayon** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:59 am

fancynancy wrote:I don't think I'd like quiz bowl as much if it were not male dominated. Testosterone is a fabulous thing.

Amen to that. Have to admit, it's kinda nice to not have to deal with lines in the bathroom (it's happened all of once in my decade-plus in academic bowl).

I've been on all sides. I was the only girl a couple of times, an all-girl team once and a half and half team several times. With those teams, gender wasn't the key thing, it was chemistry.

And as for any dominating female players, I realize most folks don't care about Oklahoma teams outside of this region, but Stephanie Craig, a 2002 Edmond Memorial graduate, was one heckuva of a player (was the top scorer at the 2002 All-state event by a considerable margin, even after missing the first two or three games). She went on to get a team started at the University of Kansas and did pretty well there, too, although we haven't seen a KU team on the circuit in two or three years now.

First Chairman · Post by **First Chairman** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:11 am

Lots of good women players in my memory (even if I cannot remember their names). Taking aside the good girls who played on my HS quiz bowl team, Sharon from Rockville (Jeopardy 1990 competitor) who went to Princeton for a while. Amanda Goad was also really good. Julie Singer (who will be graduating from Duke with her Ph.D.). Vinita. Cathy Vrentas from State College. Alice Chou. Emily Pike. Julie Stalhut. I can try to remember more people if I had more time, and I'm sure I haven't seen everyone I could have. And current players I'm excluding for the time being.

I took a peek through the NSC results page. Though girls are underrepresented, in only two years has a girl not made the all-scholars/all-star team. And as mentioned, the Duke High School Celebrity Shoot saw two girls in the Final Four (individual shootouts) for the first time.

First Chairman · Post by **First Chairman** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:11 am

To recruite girls: A) Don't make it seem like you're trying to recruite girls. Many of us consider that offensive. B) Don't have your team be overtly exclusive to a gender. I.e. If your guy team wears ties, stop. It makes things feel like you are unwelcome as a girl for changing things. C) Don't differentiate.

This is an interesting observation. The major point is to establish an environment in the club or organization that is welcoming to all, emphasizing more similiarities than differences, but appreciating diversity as a means to develop a team with deeper knowledge depth. Respect is absolutely necessary for any student club.

I can agree that you shouldn't make the effort to recruit girls an exercise in overt "affirmative action" to the point it seems that you are choosing girls because they're girls... not because they're "good."

I'm not sure about B. If there is a team uniform and boys are required to wear button-downs and ties, there's no rule stating that girls shouldn't also wear a similar nice uniform (without a tie or with a tie). I'm not sure if completely unisex uniforms would work, but still. Ideally all the team members and the advisor should agree upon the "dress code". You are representing your school after all.

Regardless of that, people need to be aware of your intrinsic biases. You may be discriminatory or create an uncomfortable environment and not know it. If anyone is interested, check out this website on implicit biases.

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:52 am

DumbJaques wrote:I can't actually imagine someone (a committed someone, anyway) quitting quizbowl because they had an ex on the team.

You misunderstand a little. It was two guys on the team who had their eye on the same girl not on the team. When she paired with one of the guys, the relationship between the guys wasn't so good.

fancynancy · Post by **fancynancy** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:52 am

E.T. Chuck wrote: And as mentioned, the Duke High School Celebrity Shoot saw two girls in the Final Four (individual shootouts) for the first time.

Hey, one was me ^_^.

First Chairman · Post by **First Chairman** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:10 pm

I should also remark re: dating among team members... you should see what happens in college... with ballroom dancers. Geez! Talk about utter contrast.

LadyInBlack · Post by **LadyInBlack** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:48 pm

radiantradon wrote: Actually, I don't think there's a problem with having more guys than girls in quiz bowl. It doesn't bother me; most of the time I don't even notice it. If there are girls on your team who are fantastic, that's great, just don't go out of your way to recruit girls who might not be any good.

I absolutely agree -- the difference really doesn't bother me at all. Yeah, you get a few guys from other teams who either try bad pick up lines or think you're filler (as the girlfriend of a teammate). But, live it all.

I agree with fancynancy as well: testosterone is fabulous.
And to defend my tie statement: it's not so much the tie thing. Yes, we're all supposed to look great representing our school. However, you always get several jerks (in my experience male) who will be sure to express their opinions perpetually on if someone does not completely match. [Matching tops is a definite rule often ignored in Illinois, but seen as status] If things work, go for it. I just think it's best to avoid the whole fiasco.

jrbarry · Post by **jrbarry** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:10 pm

As a bit more than a casual observer, I can assure all who gives a rat's butt that Brookwood will, more than likely, NOT have a varsity A team made up of four females UNLESS GOD SENDS US SOME REAL WORKAHOLIC PLAYERS!. I am a believer in affirmative action and will guarantee a male player at least one spot on our A team. I wouldn't want the poor ole boys getting "down" about being dominated by the "ladies!"

Who knows...we might try all kinds of new things at Brookwood for 06-07. A non-senior captain is something I have always wanted to try. Or playing NO SENIORS on the A team in 06-07 and working toward being a great team in 07-08. Tarnation, I might take a one-year sabbatical and let Darth Baku run the show for one year with my micromanaging, of course. But, I digress...

DrakeRQB · Post by **DrakeRQB** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:40 pm

jrbarry wrote:Who knows...we might try all kinds of new things at Brookwood for 06-07. A non-senior captain is something I have always wanted to try. Or playing NO SENIORS on the A team in 06-07 and working toward being a great team in 07-08. Tarnation, I might take a one-year sabbatical and let Darth Baku run the show for one year with my micromanaging, of course. But, I digress...

Our varsity team is a senior and four sophomores right now, and the senior is not always in the top four. So the senior is the captain when he's in, and then we have a co-captain who's a sophomore, and SHE is captain when the senior is out. She does a very good job.

ANYWAY, back on topic. Girls are no less capable than boys in quiz bowl, but I'm starting to observe that some of the girls on our team are just not as aggressive or sure of themselves (I started paying attention in practice after reading this thread). The two girls in our top four are very assertive, very confident, and when they're on no one can stop them. Then, we have girls on our team who are very smart, but they hesitate way too much.

rchschem · Post by **rchschem** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:01 am

When our top girl was a freshman and competing on the local TV quiz show for high schoolers, she punched the team captain in the chest to keep him from giving a wrong answer after he and the other male player ignored her correct one.

On camera.

We've had girls who ran the gamut from aggressive to timid. We let them pick what kind of player they want to be, but the important thing is to establish an atmosphere where they feel comfortable in whatever capacity they want to. Usually they move along that continuum the more they play, and it's a growth experience for the team and the player. But they also must understand that QB is a meritocracy, and as Johnnie Cochran once said, "If you don't pull your weight, you must alternate."

And the hotel room thing is another reason to attract more girls--adding another doesn't end up costing you anything extra on a trip!

Eric

hhssteve · Post by **hhssteve** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:21 pm

jrbarry wrote:As a bit more than a casual observer, I can assure all who gives a rat's butt that Brookwood will, more than likely, NOT have a varsity A team made up of four females UNLESS GOD SENDS US SOME REAL WORKAHOLIC PLAYERS!. I am a believer in affirmative action and will guarantee a male player at least one spot on our A team. I wouldn't want the poor ole boys getting "down" about being dominated by the "ladies!"

Who knows...we might try all kinds of new things at Brookwood for 06-07. A non-senior captain is something I have always wanted to try. Or playing NO SENIORS on the A team in 06-07 and working toward being a great team in 07-08. Tarnation, I might take a one-year sabbatical and let Darth Baku run the show for one year with my micromanaging, of course. But, I digress...

Well, of course I give a rat's butt about B'wood's team next year, even though I'm a senior and won't be as involved in the high school scene, I'd like the Heritage folks to play the best Brookwood team possible...

Coach Barry, with an allowance for position (subject) players, what's against playing four girls if they're better than all the guys you've got? I mean, that ought to be a wake-up call to the young men that they need to get it together. Of course, if your token male is roughly comparable to the least dominant girl, whatever.

Playing on an all underclassmen team is fun. It does allow for much stronger team development, rather than the "all-star team" effect of your best four dudes thrown together and seeing what's what among themselves (not that YOUR players aren't efficient as a team; they're amazing). Our team has some pretty good team dynamics because we're all friends who have been playing varsity for what seems like forever. So the no senior plan could be fun. Well, that was by two cents' worth of slightly off-topic nonsense that turned into an endless monster post.

jrbarry · Post by **jrbarry** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:16 pm

Steve:

The pasrt of my post above concerning NOT playing a 4-girl A team was completely in jest! I will play whoever makes up the most knowledgable team I can field. I am all about knowledge in quiz bowl.

We missed Heritage at Savannah Country Day yesterday.

The Quizbowl Resource Center

Bringing In Girls....

How many girls are on your school's team?

Bringing In Girls....

girls and quizbowl

Re: girls and quizbowl

yay