Practice

[brownboy79]

I understand practice is important to getting better. What I do not understand is why someone would cheat at practice. In a game, it could be understandable, not condoned, but understood, but why practice? DumbJaques was trying to explain this to me, but I still do not understand it. Isn't the point to learn?

[First Chairman]

How do you cheat in practice, aside from knowing the questions ahead of time? And yes, why...?

[Matt Weiner]

What is going on here?

[Trevkeeper]

The only reason I could see (understand not condone) is if it is something like the 4 people with the most tossups at practice will play on the A team at the next tournament.

But yes, cheating in general is just stupid.

[First Chairman]

It's one thing to go over the entire Stanford Archive to prepare for Chip Beall questions... but still...

[quizbowllee]

Once when I played at Athens State, someone brought in a packet to practice that I had just read to my high school team the day before. I have to admit, I played it, answered all 20 tossups and won like 720-0. It was fun to see the look on my teammates faces. I did, however, immediately fess up. It was just in good fun. I don't really consider that "cheating" though, for a few reasons:

1) I immediately told them what had happened. I intended as such from the beginning.
2) They all agreed it was pretty funny.
3) I was playing against true friends, not just "team mates"
4) It didn't hurt anyone. IE - there was nothing to be gained or lost (except for about 10 minutes of our lives - rounds go by FAST when you power every tossup after a few words ;-) )

I'd never cheat in any REAL competition, not even a serious practice.

[brownboy79]

I guess I need to clarify. If you were practicing either online, where you could google something, or hearing a packet before hand at a traditional practice.

[First Chairman]

Oh I see... Great Auk-like "cheating". :)

[JohnAndSlation]

Cheating as a well-meant joke is understandable, and hilarious...Cheating any other time...why? What do you honestly gain from it, especially at a practice? It'll eventually hurt you. Period. End of story.

[NotBhan]

I understand practice is important to getting better. What I do not understand is why someone would cheat at practice. In a game, it could be understandable, not condoned, but understood, but why practice? DumbJaques was trying to explain this to me, but I still do not understand it. Isn't the point to learn?

Subtle cheating (of which quizbowlers seem generally incapable) in practice could have its short-term advantages. One might want to cheat as a means of looking like a strong player in practice, answering a few extra tossups here and there in hopes of (A) getting on the school's A team and (B) acquiring the adoration of hordes of groupies. Sadly, only later do they learn that those groupies are other gangly males. So in the end, cheating doesn't pay.

[David Riley]

This is actually a common problem. I cannot use Stanfor;d packets or other online material at practice because some of my students regularly look at online questions. A couple of them (and I've had students like this in the past as well) can look at a packet once, and then remember not only the answers but the order of the questions (how else do you account for someone buzzing in and correctly answering "Library of Congress" after one word?!?!

[First Chairman]

That's where knowing people who keep secure sets of questions that are not readily available online is good. For example, all the NSC questions are freely available but not accessible online. Access is only allowed if you register for that year's PACE NSC, but it can also be provided on request (to me). All years except the immediate past year can be accommodated that way.

Of course, some of us also have a lot of questions we have swapped for in the past that never made it to the archive because we wanted to keep them secure.

[thepowerofche]

It could just be a compulsion to cheat, driven by some sort of inferiority complex or other psychological necessity (like kleptomania, or something). Last year, my team had a senior on it who was what seemed like a compulsive cheater at everything; school, girls, and even quizbowl practice. What he would do is always volunteer to keep individual score at practice, which happens whenever it's only the coach working practice, and they like to only read and not keep score. What he'd do is he'd answer a middling amount of questions, but every so often add a couple +5s or +10s to his column to elevate his score. Why he'd do this was a mystery; he was a C or (occasionally) B team player and had no shot at being on the A team and practiced in the lower practice room. Of course, some people noticed and complained about it, but it was never conclusively proven (i.e. he was never caught red-handed). So, it could just be that whoever it is might be a compulsive cheater. I just kind of wanted to rant about that even though he finally got caught cheating on a math test and, as a result, lost his scholarship to Dartmouth.

But yeah, cheating at practice is probably the most rationally indefensible situation for cheating at quizbowl I've ever heard of.

[JohnAndSlation]

I still can't understand the appeal to cheat, especially during a practice. Even if said person is cheating to get onto the A team, wouldn't it be figured out at tournaments?
As far as I know, we've never had a problem with people on our team cheating (practice, tournaments, etc.). Maybe it's because our coach demands hard work, honesty, and humility from us. I know he'd kick someone (literally kick) off the team if he found out he/she was cheating....Thanks, Coach!

[quizbowllee]

I cannot use Stanfor;d packets or other online material at practice because some of my students regularly look at online questions.

I only WISH I had that problem... That would show initiative.

[Matthew D]

Funny I was thinking that would be interesting to have the problem also

[jeffburns1]

I think if you argue that searching for quiz bowl questions online and studying them for practice is cheating, then you'd have to argue that reading any novel or looking at any painting that is asked about is cheating also. Sounds like initiative to me and every player has the same access.

[Irreligion in Bangladesh]

I think if you argue that searching for quiz bowl questions online and studying them for practice is cheating, then you'd have to argue that reading any novel or looking at any painting that is asked about is cheating also. Sounds like initiative to me and every player has the same access.

Studying quizbowl questions not only isn't cheating, but it's the best way to make yourself a better player (not counting studying said questions in the environment of an actual match versus actual opponents). The problem is when you study questions that then get used in a practice/match so that you've heard the question before and buzz in on "This river".

It's semantics. Studying them for practice to get better = good. Studying them for practice sessions = bad.

[David Riley]

I'm being misinterpreted: I NEVER said study questions online is cheating, but I can't use them for practice because they are studied online.

[JohnAndSlation]

Coach uses questions from old tournaments. If we've heard a set before, we know by the fourth word of the first tossup. And we let him know, because it's no fun to practice on questions you already know.