QU-The field in Chicago

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Matt Weiner
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Post by Matt Weiner »

No, I think a discussion of why Chip Beall is a stain on everything that makes high school quizbowl worth spending significant amounts of time and money on is perfectly appropriate for any thread where Beall is discussed, until such time as not a single team continues to endorse his malfeasance by giving him the money and legitimacy that come with tournament attendance. Carry on.

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Post by DumbJaques »

No, I think a discussion of why Chip Beall is a stain on everything that makes high school quizbowl worth spending significant amounts of time and money on is perfectly appropriate for any thread where Beall is discussed, until such time as not a single team continues to endorse his malfeasance by giving him the money and legitimacy that come with tournament attendance. Carry on.
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Post by Ben Dillon »

Wildcat wrote:
Ben, your saying you like Chip because you prefer the 4 corners format is a complete cop out. Based upon the stats provided for your team on the inqblots website, your team is not even a true nationals caliber team on NAQT format (you may of qualified, but I think the stats speak to themselves as to the level your team would compete at).
Gee... thanks for impugning my B team, which was way out of their league when they had to step in for the varsity at the May 13th tourney. Sorry for the sarcastic tone, but judging a team based solely on game scores does have drawbacks.
At Chip, you made the playoffs last year. Do you think your staunch defense of Chip could stem from something other than the merits of his tournament, but rather your ability to play well on it? Obviously I don't know you, but I think its safe to assume the natural human response would be to defend that which you are better at.
I'm not trying to defend Chip staunchly, because the plagiarism isn't defensible, and it's been documented. In many people's eyes, that alone damns him. And I get that. In fact, I'd say I'm on the fence now, reevaluating whether or not my school should continue sending business his way after this year.

But here's what I don't get. Some of those same people damn Chip for what I call "the other charges" too, e.g. the favoritism, and yet I don't see that evidence documented. If you really want to "convert" me and get me off the fence, don't just throw that stuff in there. It makes me feel as if he's being unnecessarily pilloried. And maybe that's why I felt the need to defend him at all.

A side thought: if my team played well on the format, we'd have won a state title in it by now, whereas the tournament we did win this year was on NAQT questions.
The bottom line is the question quality, not the format, is what matters first and foremost.
Of course that's a consideration. If NAQT regularly wrote the four-quarter format, don't you think Chip's base would shrink dramatically? I know we would switch over in a heartbeat.
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Post by Chris Frankel »

Ben Dillon wrote:But here's what I don't get. Some of those same people damn Chip for what I call "the other charges" too, e.g. the favoritism, and yet I don't see that evidence documented. If you really want to "convert" me and get me off the fence, don't just throw that stuff in there.
Obviously it's a lot harder to prove allegations of things like bias in a clear and straightforward manner, unlike plagiarism, but over the years I've read this board I've noticed that a lot of people who have played NAC have at least one personal experience with something fishy happening with games or results. I'm getting ready to head out for the night, but I (or someone else with initiative) will start a thread in the near future for people to share their unusual NAC experiences, and I'll share my own as well.
"They sometimes get fooled by the direction a question is going to take, and that's intentional," said Reid. "The players on these teams are so good that 90 percent of the time they could interrupt the question and give the correct answer if the questions didn't take those kinds of turns. That wouldn't be fun to watch, so every now and then as I design these suckers, I say to myself, 'Watch this!' and wait 'til we're on camera. I got a lot of dirty looks this last tournament."

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Post by Tegan »

Ben Dillon wrote: Of course that's a consideration. If NAQT regularly wrote the four-quarter format, don't you think Chip's base would shrink dramatically? I know we would switch over in a heartbeat.
I hope to get a chance to pop my head in to Chip's tournament this year if for no other reason to see it for myself. However, over the course of the last year, I have had a chacne to talk to a few coaches who go to his tournament, and ask why. From what I could tell, the format was a minor, though non-zero concern.

While beating around the bush, the #1 reason was what this tournament did not entail, which was the hard core teams. I know that one team from Illinois that went last year was very good, and likely would have went to NAQT had it been a different weekend. I am sure that there are some good teams that attend, but having seen the caliber that attended NAQT/PACE, I would have difficulty beliving that there were more teams of that caliber out there.

I would offer cauton out there to the Chip bashers ..... if you are bent on ending his tournaments:
1. I doubt that will happen anytime soon .... it sounds like he has a draw.
2. If you are trying to convince people not to go, talk up the positives of the other formats, and lay low on castigating Chip's tournaments as illegitimate. This does come across as bashing teams and coaches who would likely turn around and embrace Chip's touranments even more.....and while you might say "fine", and walk off in a huff, I would counter by asking "Why try and convince them in the first place?"

There are times that the crowd we all run with comes across as elitist. It is not elitist to support the best, reform bad trends, and work toward pushing the competitions to reward the brightest and the hardest working. Sometimes it is the tone and direction of the message that overtakes everything, and pushes the real issues to the back. I would just caution everyone: You can kill more flies with poisoned honey than with poisoned vinegar. I may be way off base here because I've never met the man, not have I seen his tournaments, but having seen his mailings, Chip builds up the positives of his tournament ..... I've never seen him write a bad thing about whay you shouldn't go to NAQT or PACE. Maybe that's his nature, or maybe that's because he can get away with it because he gets plenty of teams. I dunno. But, I would guarrantee that IF he started publishing a "Top Ten Reasons why You Shouldn't Atttend PACE or NAQT", he would start seing a drop off.

I am thrilled to death that NAQT has seen such a jump in attendance at its touranment (and am proud that they are seeing this success in Chicago, though I wish more Illinois teams would go/could go), and hope to get my team to PACE next year, but I think this hulking out whenever Chip's name come up will do very little to win over his supporters......in fact it may drive them further to his defense.

A reminder: when the dinosaurs ruled the earth, they were its unquestioned masters, but under heaven, there is a time for everything, including a time for all things to end. Given time, these tournaments will one day end as a natural function of running their course.

Of course, to speed that process along, perhaps NAQT would consider running their own version of an NIT ...... a national tournament for teams who can travel, and who want a national tournament, but runs without the national qualifiers. I bet that might make some headway in terms of teams considering a change of tournament.

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Post by Matt Weiner »

Tegan wrote: having seen his mailings, Chip builds up the positives of his tournament ..... I've never seen him write a bad thing about whay you shouldn't go to NAQT or PACE. Maybe that's his nature, or maybe that's because he can get away with it because he gets plenty of teams. I dunno. But, I would guarrantee that IF he started publishing a "Top Ten Reasons why You Shouldn't Atttend PACE or NAQT", he would start seing a drop off.
The vast bulk of the Chip field is made up of people who don't know any better. He targets regions like Long Island and the Rockies where other formats don't exist, strongly implies that his tournament is the only thing out there, and doesn't care that the top 20 teams in the country blow him off every year. Yes, it is our fault if we don't get the word out to those 80-90% of Beall teams who don't know any better. But the other 10-20% of teams, who know the alternatives and just decide that they'd rather take a better shot at winning a meaningless title, and spin some nonsense about the four-quarter format being inherently better in a lame attempt to justify themselves? The blame is on them.

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Post by btressler »

Howard wrote: Actually, Charter competes in numerous NAQT events throughout the year, and unless I recall conversations with their coach incorrectly, NAQT was their primarily desired format. Also remember that it's a long trek for them to come to the DC area. It's doable in a day. But as I think back on all the out-of-town day trips I've taken, I don't know how many of these I'd be willing to do in a year. I'll invite stat74 to respond if he wishes, but I suspect he may want to stay out of this now train wreck of a thread.

As for the rest of the Delaware teams, I don't recall seeing any outside the Delaware/Philly area, and never at an NAQT event outside the state of Delaware.
Correct on all accounts, especially the "train wreck".

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Post by Stained Diviner »

To Mr. Weiner and Mr. Frankel: Thanks for the evidence. I always wondered whether it was a matter of questions that sounded similar or questions that were obviously stolen--now I know.

To Mr. Dillon: You are welcome to attend the meeting I am leading tomorrow night.

To Mr. Egan: I think that UTC is running an NAQT mirror, which sounds like the non-qualifier tournament that you describe. Also, there is more negativity coming from the PACE group than from other tournaments largely because they are involved in many two-way discussions about the game in general--on the PACE or NAQT websites, you will not find complaints about Mr. Beall or teams that attend his tournaments. You are absolutely correct about accentuating the positive, time being on the right side, and the strategy of being welcoming to coaches more familiar with formats we don't prefer or indifferent to the differences.

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Post by First Chairman »

Also, there is more negativity coming from the PACE group than from other tournaments largely because they are involved in many two-way discussions about the game in general...
I wish to make a caveat that members of the PACE group and its associates are given full exercise to express individual opinions. It should be thus noted that individual opinions do not constitute full endorsement by the group. We individually argue among ourselves about these issues too, and I want to make sure everyone's opinions are given consideration.

I take your quote as being an interesting one: people recognize the PACE members here. I don't know who all the NAQT members are aside from the posters with an official rank (as listed on their website). I don't quite agree that we are all negative on all issues, but it interests me that there is a recognized PACE presence. This should underline the fact that we are interested in the opinions of the entire hsqb community, whether or not we agree with those opinions. Regardless, some "tough love" (for a complete lack of a better term) can be employed here, and some of us do have specific issues that we are passionate about. That's who we are, and if the current fads in electronic media (bb's, blogs, pods) are any indication, that's not going to change too much.

That said, we probably do appear to take a more critical stance because we have individually evaluated many of the issues we discuss here. We enjoy discussing these issues with members of the quiz bowl community, as that is our perogative. Many of us also have professional connections with members of the high school quiz bowl community who do not participate in circuit events.

Regardless, it has always been PACE's position that as a group we are neutral regarding other formats and that we encourage teams to compete at national events (even if they cannot make our own). As a result, we want to make it clear that we welcome a diversity of opinion. I don't speak for all of PACE, but I'm pretty sure that most of us prefer addressing problems through programs rather than white papers or policy statements.

When it comes to presenting our own competitions or even providing advice on other events, I (personally) do give my opinion of the good things that tournament provides so far as I know. I gladly encourage teams to compete at NAQT HSCT even though I know that expecting NAQT people to recommend teams to compete at the PACE NSC is highly unlikely. On our events, we have feedback from our participating teams that have told us what they like about the NSC, and we are glad to tell people how delighted our teams were after competing at our event and why. But if you want a contrast in presentation: PACE won't make claims that we have more "significa" than "trivia" as Chip does... our question distribution and our references speak for us on that, as does our freely available questions (to all teams that register for the tournament).

I would be happy if I were proven wrong on Chip's tournament, but the evidence also stands and no one seems to care about deliberate violations of the ideals upon which education is built. My personal frustrations on this issue lie on these violations as I feel it fundamentally undermines the ethical behavior that we expect of our students and faculty.

I know that telling people "they're wrong" doesn't work well. But even presenting logical arguments to those who cover their eyes and ears isn't very effective either.

There are also members of PACE who are very receptive to "alternative formats" provided the formats achieve the educational goals and value that quiz bowl competition should achieve. Again, I run HSCS which doesn't even use buzzer systems, and at PACE, I have mirrored the Maryland It's Ac competition. Many of the other members also help write questions for other organizations, and many of us would be more than willing to assist at other events in many different formats (including 4Q; the original 1992 Duke Academic Festival was written in 4Q).

In short, we may sound critical on this forum because we encourage each other to take an active role in discussions here. But there is a lot more we do outside this forum, and we would like to do more. Perhaps having us be involved with outreach and service projects may be the way to shut us up.
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Post by jrbarry »

I went to the NAC in New ORLEANS IN 02 AND 03 AND 04 and I witnessed no favoritism nor did I hear anyone suggest that in talking to coaches and players. I felt and still feel that Chip has made major improvements on his questions compared to my earlier experiences at the NAC in 1988 and 1989 and 1995.

And, to some of us, match format does really matter. Straight tossup bonus with no bouncebacks is boring afterwhile. I like variety which is why I like a 4 quarter format.

The continual attack on the NAC is pointless. No one is "guilty" of anything if they choose to attend NAC rather than the others. And, some of y'all are getting what you seem to want as NAQT gets larger and larger and appears to be THE national tournament in terms of strong teams participation.

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Post by QuizBowlRonin »

jrbarry wrote:I went to the NAC in New ORLEANS IN 02 AND 03 AND 04 and I witnessed no favoritism nor did I hear anyone suggest that in talking to coaches and players. I felt and still feel that Chip has made major improvements on his questions compared to my earlier experiences at the NAC in 1988 and 1989 and 1995.

And, to some of us, match format does really matter. Straight tossup bonus with no bouncebacks is boring afterwhile. I like variety which is why I like a 4 quarter format.

The continual attack on the NAC is pointless. No one is "guilty" of anything if they choose to attend NAC rather than the others. And, some of y'all are getting what you seem to want as NAQT gets larger and larger and appears to be THE national tournament in terms of strong teams participation.
With all due respect Mr. Barry, plagiarizing questions, especially for profit, is an offense which cannot be allowed. It is unfair to the question writers, and it is unfair to the students. And until such offenses are stamped out, the criticism is justified and ought to be continued.

We don't even have to get caught up on issues of showmanship or format. As a community, we shouldn't allow a predator running a tournament with non-pristine questions to go uncriticized.
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Post by jrbarry »

Jason:

I know many here claim Chip has stolen questions before. I simply am not familiar with any questions he supposedly stole from some other copywrighted source.

I do know that Chip Beall does not write all his own questions. I would suggest anyone with evidence that Chip has used questions under copywright to someone else, should send that info to him. If that is true, it may well be that he is unaware that someone has sold him a copywrighted question.

I receive questions for my two annual tournaments from individuals that I trust and I make no effort to see if any of them are duplicates of copywrighted material. I sure hope Brookwood isn't using questions stolen from somewhere. And I hope if we are, some fine soul will tell me that.

As to the issue of pristine questions, that has almost become a farce nowadays because so many folks use the same sets of questions in different tournaments. Once a question is read aloud anywhere in the country, it is no longer pristine to be read anywhere else.

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Chip Beall

Post by pblessman »

jrbarry,

Several people have contacted Chip Beall about problems with his questions. I, myself, did so in 2002, and he told me that he hadn't been aware of the problem, other people had written the questions, it would never happen again, etc.

Since then I have not used his questions, to a large degree because I feel it would be hypocritical of me as a high school teacher, who expects students to not plagiarize, to pay money for questions which are taken from other copyrighted sources.

Copyrighted sources Chip has used include the Stanford Packet Archive, KMO, Jeopardy, and many others. The Quiz Bowl League in which my school played last school used Chip's questions, and just for kicks I did a few Google searches on questions that looked out of place in Chip's set (in general, pyramid style questions, for example, have a tendency to come from the Packet Archive). I found several examples of copied questions, and this is with very limited resources (I only searched for a few questions on the web- and many questions can't be found there).

Anyway, I've included a few samples of copied questions below. As I mentioned before, I and many others have over the years contacted Chip about some of his questions being copied, and the problem has never been corrected. Clearly, he is aware of the problem (and quite possibly, he'll read this post, so he'll be aware all over again...)

Phil


St. Joseph Valley Quiz Bowl Conference, 2005-2006 Season, Round 3:

Copied questions

WU1: “…the Russian Orthodox Church formally recommended that all members of Russia’s last royal family be recognized as martyrs and canonized as saints.â€

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Post by QuizBowlRonin »

jrbarry wrote:Jason:

I know many here claim Chip has stolen questions before. I simply am not familiar with any questions he supposedly stole from some other copywrighted source.

I do know that Chip Beall does not write all his own questions. I would suggest anyone with evidence that Chip has used questions under copywright to someone else, should send that info to him. If that is true, it may well be that he is unaware that someone has sold him a copywrighted question.

I receive questions for my two annual tournaments from individuals that I trust and I make no effort to see if any of them are duplicates of copywrighted material. I sure hope Brookwood isn't using questions stolen from somewhere. And I hope if we are, some fine soul will tell me that.

As to the issue of pristine questions, that has almost become a farce nowadays because so many folks use the same sets of questions in different tournaments. Once a question is read aloud anywhere in the country, it is no longer pristine to be read anywhere else.
I'm probably going to end up repeating the gripes of quiz bowlers since time immemorial (just type " "chip beall" plagiarism " in google), but for one who claims to be the "most prolific writer in quizbowl", I find it difficult to evade responsibility for plagiarism by blaming a nebulous third party. I especially am concerned as to why you, as a teacher, would be willing to tolerate this.

Again, Mr. Beall is selling a tournament that *claims to have pristine questions, but in fact does not.* NAQT or collegiate mirrors do not make that claim with non-exclusive tournaments - for that reason they have exclusivity agreements and censuring. Again, with due respect, I also find it disturbing the cynical attitude you're taking towards question purity. Am I correct in interpreting what you're saying as a justification for plagiarism?

Again, I defer to your years of coaching. I just assumed that this sort of behavior would be considered a universal affront, especially to educators. It certainly does to me.
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Post by Matt Weiner »

jrbarry wrote:Jason:

I know many here claim Chip has stolen questions before. I simply am not familiar with any questions he supposedly stole from some other copywrighted source.
I suggest you read the incontrovertible evidence that was linked to in this very thread.

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Post by mhanna »

Matt,

I don't know if Chip still carries this caveat on his question sources, but he used to say all of his questions were either written or authinticated by Questions Unlimited. Now he seems to be merely the premiere supplier of questions...at a cost, of course.

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Post by First Chairman »

Not exactly, but you can read about his marketing points off his website.

In a very ancillary subject that is not at all related to quiz bowl, read about the Ohio University plagiarism case.
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plagiarism

Post by bdavery »

After QU had used 2 or 3 of mine off the Stanford Archive, I wrote to Chip and said if it didn't stop, he'd have to start writing me checks. He responded that he'd had one writer who had been using the Stanford Archive regularly over a period of time, and that he had finally sacked that writer.

Assuming his statement was true, he may have another such writer now.
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Post by First Chairman »

Has QU ever posted a roster of his stable (for lack of a better term) of writers? I know about his staff members, but not his writers.
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Post by quiz4life »

Let's bring this thread back to the question I asked, in what seems a very long time ago-that is peoples views of what will happen at NAC in Chicago. Since I first asked this question we have Byram Hills winning in SA and Chaska winning in DC and I now have a two-year old. OK the question is not that old :smile: Both teams get to play in Chicago
I admit, as I alluded too in another thread, I think the Shanghai team, with an even stronger team than played at NAQT, has a chance to go deep. I am hoping for a SAS v. Chaska rematch. We played them last year in the prelims and beat them. But the team and yours truly the coach felt that Chaska was the better team and we had just got lucky. Sadly for SAS in our first playoff match we had to play Chaska and they whipped us good! Now both teams look even stronger. If it happens it should be a good match.
Who else is going deep into the playoffs?
Thanks,
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More Copied Questions

Post by pblessman »

Here are seven more examples of copied questions. These were used in the 2002 NAC and then sold as part of the 2002 "Best of the Best" set.



http://www.stanford.edu/group/CollegeBo ... bryce2.txt:

16. Name the man, 30-20-10.
A. Jean-Paul Sartre called him "not only an intellectual, but also the
most complete human being of our age."
B. Gabriel Garcia Marquez said of this fellow Hispanic, "It would take
me a thousand years and a million pages to write [his] biography."
C. He met Fidel Castro in 1955, later serving as president of Cuba's
national bank and then as the country's minister of industry.
Answer: Ernesto "Che" GUEVARA

BOB 2002 Game 1-Warm-up round:

3. 10 Jean-Paul Sartre called him “not only an intellectual, but also the most complete human being of our age.â€

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Post by DH TTHS »

quiz4life wrote:Let's bring this thread back to the question I asked, in what seems a very long time ago-that is peoples views of what will happen at NAC in Chicago. Since I first asked this question we have Byram Hills winning in SA and Chaska winning in DC and I now have a two-year old. OK the question is not that old :smile: Both teams get to play in Chicago
I admit, as I alluded too in another thread, I think the Shanghai team, with an even stronger team than played at NAQT, has a chance to go deep. I am hoping for a SAS v. Chaska rematch. We played them last year in the prelims and beat them. But the team and yours truly the coach felt that Chaska was the better team and we had just got lucky. Sadly for SAS in our first playoff match we had to play Chaska and they whipped us good! Now both teams look even stronger. If it happens it should be a good match.
Who else is going deep into the playoffs?
Thanks,
Michael Harvey
American Community School
I would say that Fisher Catholic, Ohio's state champions should have a good tournament. They have an excellent, balanced team. I have never seen or played Chaska or Shanghai however so I really can't compare them to Fisher.
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Post by Byko »

quiz4life wrote:I admit, as I alluded too in another thread, I think the Shanghai team, with an even stronger team than played at NAQT, has a chance to go deep.
Wait--you mean that wasn't Shanghai's strongest team? I only read for them in practice rounds Friday night and watched them put up a good game for most of their match against TJ A and was very impressed with their knowledge. Provided American pop culture doesn't get in their way, I think they definitely SHOULD be one of the teams to beat.

Another team that people might not be thinking much about is James Island. Sure, they haven't made noise nationally this year, but this tournament is closer to what they like--shorter, faster questions. That's why they always went to ASCN and were not as fond of NAQT or PACE (somewhat odd, I think, considering their high school tournament generally used NAQT questions with the pop culture ones removed). Dorothy Meek is an excellent coach, and a few matches on their schedule (El Paso, Fisher Catholic) should get them well prepared for playoffs.

Other teams to watch probably include (just based on records from this year and not from my having actually seen them) St. Thomas, Chicago Latin, and Fisher Catholic. If El Paso or Plano made a run, it wouldn't surprise me either since they are most comfortable with Chip's format.

In the end, though, as is often the case with NAC, pretty much anything could happen, so prognostications here are probably a bit less accurate than at NAQT or PACE.
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Post by insaneindian »

Byko wrote:Wait--you mean that wasn't Shanghai's strongest team?
From talking to them in our poker games, I gathered that the underclassmen were taking exams and weren't allowed to come that weekend. Thus, only seniors were on the HSNCT team. They said some of the underclassmen were better though. I'm guessing that Dennis was still the best, though.
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Post by quiz4life »

If you read my post on page 5 (my that is getting rather long) of the NAQT thread I explain more about Shanghai bringing three different members to NAC, but yes Dennis is still the strongest player.
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Re: More Copied Questions

Post by STPickrell »

pblessman wrote:Here are seven more examples of copied questions. These were used in the 2002 NAC and then sold as part of the 2002 "Best of the Best" set.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/CollegeBo ... 6/GMU.html
5. In Proverbs, Solomon comments that these creatures have no king, yet they advance together in ranks. In Revelations 9:7, they look like horses prepared for battle, with crowns of gold and human-like faces. In Exodus 10:4, Moses threatens to bring them into Pharoah's country tomorrow. For 10 points, these describe what creatures which would advance in large numbers, devouring every plant they saw?
A: _LOCUSTS_
BOB 2002-Game 9-Bonus Round

1. 10 In Proverbs, Solomon comments that these creatures have no king, yet they advance together in ranks. In Revelation 9:7, they look like horses prepared for battle, with crowns of gold and human-like faces. In Exodus 10:4, Moses threatens promptly to bring them into Pharoah's land. We’re talking about what creatures which would advance in large numbers, devouring every plant they saw?
Ans. Locusts
Hmm, how much in royalties should I be getting for this one? :grin:

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Post by conker »

insaneindian wrote:
Byko wrote:Wait--you mean that wasn't Shanghai's strongest team?
From talking to them in our poker games, I gathered that the underclassmen were taking exams and weren't allowed to come that weekend. Thus, only seniors were on the HSNCT team. They said some of the underclassmen were better though. I'm guessing that Dennis was still the best, though.
William and I were the only ones who were on the A team last year. However, Aaron and Jessie did well on their own right, racking up one power each. Actually, Aaron would have had two powers if we had not been facing the monster that is State College A that round. :smile:
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Re: More Copied Questions

Post by First Chairman »

StPickrell wrote:
pblessman wrote:Here are seven more examples of copied questions. These were used in the 2002 NAC and then sold as part of the 2002 "Best of the Best" set.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/CollegeBo ... 6/GMU.html
5. In Proverbs, Solomon comments that these creatures have no king, yet they advance together in ranks. In Revelations 9:7, they look like horses prepared for battle, with crowns of gold and human-like faces. In Exodus 10:4, Moses threatens to bring them into Pharoah's country tomorrow. For 10 points, these describe what creatures which would advance in large numbers, devouring every plant they saw?
A: _LOCUSTS_
BOB 2002-Game 9-Bonus Round

1. 10 In Proverbs, Solomon comments that these creatures have no king, yet they advance together in ranks. In Revelation 9:7, they look like horses prepared for battle, with crowns of gold and human-like faces. In Exodus 10:4, Moses threatens promptly to bring them into Pharoah's land. We’re talking about what creatures which would advance in large numbers, devouring every plant they saw?
Ans. Locusts
Hmm, how much in royalties should I be getting for this one? :grin:
Shawn: he'd probably ask you to PAY HIM for editing your question to his quiz bowl aesthetics. :lol: :lol: :grin:
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Post by mhanna »

Byko,

James Island may not be at full strength, but if they are, the babies are lightning fast on quick answers. I look forward to the Cabell Midland match between them and JI. We lost to CM in the finals at Parkersburg this year with NAQT short answer questions. No one should underestimate them, especially on a quick-answer format. Depending on which JI team shows up, JI is quicker but not deeper. However, you can't take Dorothy out of the equation. She can get a team ready very quickly.

Is the AI site still up with an address? Give my love to Jessie.

Mac

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Post by quiz4life »

Will any one send the match scores at lunch time? I understand that Fisher Catholic is 0-2 and the Latin school has already lost one as has El Paso and St. Thomas

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Post by mhanna »

Anyone have any thoughts about what's happening at QU? I'm especially interested in James Island and Cabell Midland.

Mac Hanna

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Re: More Copied Questions

Post by STPickrell »

E.T. Chuck wrote:Shawn: he'd probably ask you to PAY HIM for editing your question to his quiz bowl aesthetics. :lol: :lol: :grin:
But what about MY sense of quiz bowl aesthetics?

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Post by AKKOLADE »

mhanna wrote:Anyone have any thoughts about what's happening at QU? I'm especially interested in James Island and Cabell Midland.
Quoted in case someone knows what's going on, as I'm interested in Cabell's performance as well.

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Post by First Chairman »

Well, it's Tuesday now.... who won?
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Post by adg1034 »

Byram Hills A. They defeated us (Chaska) by a score I can't remember. We defeated St. Thomas Academy (our traditional MN rival) by a score of 390-280 to advance to the finals, while Byram Hills defeated Hastings A, another Westchester County, NY team, in their semifinal match. More later.
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Post by Strongside »

That looked like an interesting final four. Two teams in one semfinal from the Twin Cities and two from Westchester County.

Congrats and thanks to Chaska and St. Thomas for representing Minnesota well.

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Getting a list of NAQT members

Post by rhentzel »

E.T. Chuck wrote:
I don't know who all the NAQT members are aside from the posters with an official rank (as listed on their website).
All NAQT members, including officers, are listed on our website at:

http://www.naqt.com/biographies.html

Other people associated with NAQT as contract writers, contract editors, former members, or in other capacities are not listed.

-- R. Robert Hentzel
President and Chief Technical Officer,
National Academic Quiz Tournaments, LLC

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Post by rhentzel »

E.T. Chuck wrote:
I gladly encourage teams to compete at NAQT HSCT even though I know that expecting NAQT people to recommend teams to compete at the PACE NSC is highly unlikely.
While NAQT is obviously in competition with other national tournaments for the time and money of top teams, we have no problem saying either privately, or in a public forum, that other organizations, PACE in particular, run quality events under the direction of people who care deeply about quiz bowl.

Not many people get a chance to compete for a national championship in anything at any point in their lives; we wouldn't want a team to stay home rather than going to the PACE NSC.

Good luck with your event this weekend!

-- R. Robert Hentzel
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National Academic Quiz Tournaments, LLC

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Re: Getting a list of NAQT members

Post by sabine01 »

rhentzel wrote:
E.T. Chuck wrote:
I don't know who all the NAQT members are aside from the posters with an official rank (as listed on their website).
All NAQT members, including officers, are listed on our website at:

http://www.naqt.com/biographies.html

Other people associated with NAQT as contract writers, contract editors, former members, or in other capacities are not listed.

-- R. Robert Hentzel
President and Chief Technical Officer,
National Academic Quiz Tournaments, LLC
Rob --

ETC does acknowledge the website listings thus:
aside from the posters with an official rank (as listed on their website)


... Not sure what the purpose of your posting of that was unless you were just providing us the specific link...

Many thanks for the good luck wishes! :)

~T~
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Post by FCqb »

Yeah, we went 3-3, i don't know why we played so poorly. The questions were def. slanted without a single art qustion the whole tournament, and only a sprinkle of other fine arts. We did beat James island though, and stomped cabell. I don't think we're returning to NAC, we'll see you guys at NAQT next year.
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Re: Getting a list of NAQT members

Post by rhentzel »

ETC does acknowledge the website listings thus: aside from the posters with an official rank (as listed on their website)

... Not sure what the purpose of your posting of that was unless you were just providing us the specific link...
I interpreted ETC's comment, perhaps incorrectly, that he thought there were more NAQT members than those listed on the website. ("aside from the posters with an explicit rank").

I wanted to clear up any confusion that might exist as to exactly which people were members of NAQT (and might therefore be able to speak "for" NAQT) and which were not.

I apologize to ETC if I misunderstood him (or further confused the issue in anybody's minds).

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Re: Getting a list of NAQT members

Post by sabine01 »

rhentzel wrote:
ETC does acknowledge the website listings thus: aside from the posters with an official rank (as listed on their website)

... Not sure what the purpose of your posting of that was unless you were just providing us the specific link...
I interpreted ETC's comment, perhaps incorrectly, that he thought there were more NAQT members than those listed on the website. ("aside from the posters with an explicit rank").

I wanted to clear up any confusion that might exist as to exactly which people were members of NAQT (and might therefore be able to speak "for" NAQT) and which were not.

I apologize to ETC if I misunderstood him (or further confused the issue in anybody's minds).

-- R. Robert Hentzel
President and Chief Technical Officer,
National Academic Quiz Tournaments, LLC
Chalk it up to Dr. Chuck trying to translate for his cat, I suppose...

I was taking it as -- after Tom noted that a lot of people seem to recognize who's w/PACE -- people might not necessarily know who at NAQT is posting here.

For all we know on these boards, some of us may be using screen names that may not be so obvious... so long as such names aren't used for less-than-kosher purposes.

(Prime example... me unwittingly sniping at Eric Douglass yesterday cause I didn't recognize his SN)

We're pretty familiar with the usual suspects; we might not necessarily recognize a poster if they -- say -- post as little as I do. Even still, It'd be safe to say a cross-section of people on these boards have no clue who I am, where I come from, or what I do unless I say so.

Of course, we'd people hope would sign off if it's something official. Ah well -- Water under the bridge. ;)

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

~T~
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Post by Strongside »


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Post by Byko »

Questions Unlimited wrote:Our favorite single question from the 2006 competition follows ... and it represents the first time ever that we've asked a question about one of the competing high schools. "Brother Kenneth Hoagland called off what event at Roman Catholic Kellenberg Memorial High School for what he calls the decadence surrounding the event after watching families charter boats and rent expensive houses for parties?" (Ans. Senior prom) The National Academic Association is proud to salute Headmaster Brother Kenneth Hoagland and their coach Brother Nigel Pratt, not only for bringing outstanding teams every year to Nationals, but also for taking a stand against extravagance and rampant materialism.
Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm shocked at this question for so many reasons:

1. Isn't it kind of unfair to ask a question about a particular school, especially one that you pretty much know is going to be in your tournament and especially when it's not exactly big-news current events?

2. Is this really a quiz bowl question?

3. Is this really a question you as a company want to be proud of?

4. Is it not hypocritical that a man and company that tend more toward "extravagance" and "materialism" than quality are supportive of this?
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Post by Strongside »

Yeah I thought that question was pretty funny and pretty biased. I thought it was kind of sad how Chip felt proud of using it at the tournament.

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Post by jrbarry »

Byko:

That question Chip brags on is a disgrace. It is utterly ridiculous...as is every trash tossup I ever heard anywhere else including at Brookwood!

LOL! :-)

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Post by conker »

Byko wrote:
Questions Unlimited wrote:Our favorite single question from the 2006 competition follows ... and it represents the first time ever that we've asked a question about one of the competing high schools. "Brother Kenneth Hoagland called off what event at Roman Catholic Kellenberg Memorial High School for what he calls the decadence surrounding the event after watching families charter boats and rent expensive houses for parties?" (Ans. Senior prom) The National Academic Association is proud to salute Headmaster Brother Kenneth Hoagland and their coach Brother Nigel Pratt, not only for bringing outstanding teams every year to Nationals, but also for taking a stand against extravagance and rampant materialism.
Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm shocked at this question for so many reasons:

1. Isn't it kind of unfair to ask a question about a particular school, especially one that you pretty much know is going to be in your tournament and especially when it's not exactly big-news current events?

2. Is this really a quiz bowl question?

3. Is this really a question you as a company want to be proud of?

4. Is it not hypocritical that a man and company that tend more toward "extravagance" and "materialism" than quality are supportive of this?
A few points I would like to make:

1. We played on that question. I think it was during the first playoff round. I don't believe Kellenberg Memorial was playing during that round, so they didn't have an unfair advantage.

2. It may not be the most significant news tidbit in the past year, but I remember reading about it on the NYTimes website (or somewhere), and I don't even live in this country.

3. And no, it really is not a quiz team question at all.
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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

Byko wrote:
Questions Unlimited wrote:Our favorite single question from the 2006 competition follows ... and it represents the first time ever that we've asked a question about one of the competing high schools. "Brother Kenneth Hoagland called off what event at Roman Catholic Kellenberg Memorial High School for what he calls the decadence surrounding the event after watching families charter boats and rent expensive houses for parties?" (Ans. Senior prom) The National Academic Association is proud to salute Headmaster Brother Kenneth Hoagland and their coach Brother Nigel Pratt, not only for bringing outstanding teams every year to Nationals, but also for taking a stand against extravagance and rampant materialism.
Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm shocked at this question for so many reasons:

1. Isn't it kind of unfair to ask a question about a particular school, especially one that you pretty much know is going to be in your tournament and especially when it's not exactly big-news current events?

2. Is this really a quiz bowl question?

3. Is this really a question you as a company want to be proud of?

4. Is it not hypocritical that a man and company that tend more toward "extravagance" and "materialism" than quality are supportive of this?
That actually was a big news event for a while (last year), heard it on the nightly news once or twice. I would have buzzed halfway through, but then again, it's NAC so pretty much anyone could guess it halfway through. Also, since it's NAC, half the time when I hear their questions I wonder if it's really a quizbowl question. What seems offensive to me is the "but also for taking a stand against extravagance and rampant materialism" part, because it seems so obviously sarcastic and piercing, but then again, so are statements like "You simply cannot find a more accurate, better-written source of questions" :wink: .
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Post by Captain Sinico »

jrbarry wrote:Byko:

That question Chip brags on is a disgrace. It is utterly ridiculous...as is every trash tossup I ever heard anywhere else including at Brookwood!

LOL! :-)
Yeah, like, except that's not a trash question.

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Post by Strongside »

Speaking of writing questions about a specific school there was a bonus question at a meet we (Mounds Park Academy) were at and the other team had the bonus and the category was state capitals. The question was something like this. Name the state capital located on the Mississippi River that contains Indian Mounds Park. Our school was named after the that park because that was near where our school was originally going to be located. Granted a lot of High Schools are named after famous people but the Indian Mounds Park isn't very well known.

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