Illinois 06-07

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Post by Tegan » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:28 pm

friarup wrote:I was wondering what happened in the final at the Homewood-Flossmoor tournament on Saturday. We had to leave right away to get home for a dance that night. I'm fairly certain that Wheaton North and Maine South played each other.
Wheaton North defeated Maine South 276-95. After five questions, the score was 136-5.

Sadly, in an attempt to fix our second place trophy back at school, it broke. We are having a commemorative service when school resumes, hopefully tomorrow.

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Post by Trevkeeper » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:27 pm

Take this, Matt!

New Trier Sectional (Sub Sectional B):

1. Maine South
2. New Trier
3. Maine East
4. Deerfield
5. Loyola
6. Lake Forest

1. Carlo Angiuli (New Trier)
2. Greg Peterson (Maine South)
3. Erin Li (Maine East)
4. Nick Matchen (New Trier)
5. Jeff Wear (Maine South)
6 or 7. Alex Z. (Maine East

That's all I remember.
Last edited by Trevkeeper on Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Siverus Snape » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:40 pm

You've finally done it, Mr. Egan! You now occupy two places in your sectional. I don't know how you've done it, but I must congratulate you.

But seriously, I'm sure number 3 is really supposed to be Maine East. Good thing edits are back.

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Post by IcyBallerina » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:59 pm

I wasn't able to attend Boylan's tournament last weekend- How did things go?

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Post by mlaird » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:09 pm

Y'know, I'll just go ahead and fix Nick's post for him, since it was meant as a zing to me. The seeding in the New Trier Subsectional is as follows:

1.) MS
2.) NT
3.) ME
4.) Deerfield
5.) LA
6.) Lake Forest
7.) Notre Dame
8.) Highland Park
9.) Evanston
10.) Niles West
11.) Elk Grove
12.) Glenbrook South
13.) Schaumburg
14.) Maine West

[EDIT: All-sectional is being figured out, I guess]
Last edited by mlaird on Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tegan » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:32 pm

Mr. Laird's All-Sectional postings are in error, and should be removed immediately.

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Post by cornfused » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:03 pm

Anyone know the seeding on Fenwick's side of the sectional?

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Post by friarup » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:19 pm

As far as the Fenwick sectional goes, I only know the top 3 teams. Sorry I can't help you out any further.
1) Fenwick
2) St. Ignatius
3) OPRF

Any new information would be greatly appreciated.

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Post by Jax » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:16 pm

Does anyone know the format of the Fenwick Tourney this coming saturday? I heard that 12 of the 16 teams move into the afternoon How does this work?

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Post by Deviant Insider » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:35 pm

12 teams advance for two rounds. I assume this means separate pools for the top 4, the next four, and the next four.

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Seeding for Wheaton Warrenville South Sub-Sectional A

Post by Alejandro » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:39 am

Wheaton Warrenville South Sub-Sectional A

1. Naperville Central
2. Wheaton Warrenville South
3. IMSA
4. Glenbard South
5. Oswego
6. Plainfield Central
7. Naperville North
8. Geneva
9. Waubonsie Valley
10. Nequa Valley
11. Plainfield North
12. Oswego East
13. Plainfield South
14. Aurora East
15. Aurora West

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Post by OP_Huskies » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:04 am

Jax --

My coach told us that at Fenwick they will be grouping the six top teams (I'm assuming WN, NT, Libertyville, Fenwick, St. Iggy, & OPRF). Which gives an entirely new meaning to the name "bloodbath"

Fenwick will be a hell of a ride.

JB

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Post by Tegan » Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:18 am

OP_Huskies wrote:My coach told us that at Fenwick they will be grouping the six top teams (I'm assuming WN, NT, Libertyville, Fenwick, St. Iggy, & OPRF). Which gives an entirely new meaning to the name "bloodbath"
Just imagine if Maine East had decided to go here instead of to Maine South.

Bring your green scrubs and gortex ..... this one's going to be messy!

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Post by David Riley » Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:26 am

Does anyone have/wish to post a complete list of the attending teams?

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Post by mlaird » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:54 am

David Riley wrote:Does anyone have/wish to post a complete list of the attending teams?
Check the last page, I totally posted one. Also, you got an email from Draski with it.

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Post by mlaird » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:54 am

Let's go ahead and fix that double post, and I'll just post the roster for Fenwick:

Wheaton North
St. Patrick
Lake Park (2 Teams)
Fremd (2 Teams)
St. Ignatius
IMSA
Wheaton Academy
Libertyville
Montini (2 Teams)
Marist
New Trier
Notre Dame
Waukegan
OPRF
Carmel (2 Teams)
Fenwick (2 Teams)

[Edit: DOUBLEPOSTAMIRITE]

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Re: Seeding for Wheaton Warrenville South Sub-Sectional A

Post by Tegan » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:34 pm

NCRedhawks wrote:Wheaton Warrenville South Sub-Sectional A

1. Naperville Central
2. Wheaton Warrenville South
3. IMSA
4. Glenbard South
5. Oswego
6. Plainfield Central
7. Naperville North
<<whistles>> I know some of these teams fairly well, and if Naperville North is fighting out of the seven hole, that says a ton about how tough this group is. I would have to rank this among one of the toughest sub-sectionals in the State

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Post by Siverus Snape » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:15 pm

I'm a little bit confused. We've had the Fenwick tournament on our calendar the entire year, and we are definitely taking a bus to Fenwick this Saturday....but I don't see Auburn on any rosters.

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Post by friarup » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:47 pm

Don't worry about that. Mr. Draski gave us a list of the teams that are coming on saturday. Auburn was definitely on there. I'll see you on Saturday.

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Post by Siverus Snape » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:22 pm

Okay, cool. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Post by OP_Huskies » Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:34 am

And Auburn. I repeat: bloodbath.

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Post by David Riley » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:58 pm

Good luck to everyone who is trying out for Team Illinois 2007 on Sunday. We have 22 people trying out, including 3 from last year's team., including:

Carlo Angiuli, New Trier
Alex Davis, Elmwood
Hunter Fast, Bloomington
Greg Gauthier, Wheaton North
Matthew Gerken, Sterling
Joanthan Irving, Wheaton North
Bonny Jain, Moline
Michael Jiang, Rockford Auburn
Evan Jones, Hoffman Estates
Christian Kreb, Loyola Academy
Kathleen Kuo, Geneva
Nick Matchen. New Trier
Conor McCarthy, St. Ignatius
Kevin Ngo, Wheaton North
Luke Pacold, St. Ignatius
Greg Peterson, Maine South
Steven Rykbosch, St. Ignatius
Sam Schoenberg, Springfield
Bruce Spencer, Rockford East
Justin Stoncius, Carbondale
Siva Sundaram, Rockford Auburn
Jeff Wear, Maine South

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Post by OPGavin » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:52 am

Hi everyone, I guess I should introduce myself.

I'm Gavin, and I'm the captain for OPRF. I'm JB's (a.k.a. OP_Huskies) teammate, and I'm certainly not as strong a player as he is. But I do get to sit in the middle.

Anyway, I look forward to contributing my two cents over the next several weeks. Right now, I have to finish an essay so I'm not sleep-deprived for tomorrow. See you bright and early at Fenwick!

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Post by mlaird » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:58 pm

Breakout from the Fenwick Octangular:

Gold Division (Teams that have placed 1st or 2nd at a tournament this year, or were state champs last year):
1.) New Trier
2.) Auburn
3.) OPRF
[note: a three-way 6-1 tie was broken by points scored]

Silver Division (all the other teams that weren't 'B' teams)
1.) Carmel
2.) Marist
3.) IMSA

'B' Team Bracket winner:
Carmel 'B' (?)

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Post by MJG » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:55 pm

NCIC Tournament results:

Varsity
1. Sterling
2. IVC (Chillicothe)
3. Princeton
4. Hall

F/S
1. Lasalle-Peru
2. Sterling


Also, thanks to the IHSSBCA for putting on the Team Illinois selection event today. It was fun, despite the fact that I suck at Panasonic format (negs and I don't get along). Though I do admit it would be cool to spice up Illinois format with some matching tossups once in a while.

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Post by David Riley » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:39 pm

Congratulations to the member of Team Illinois 2007:


Carlo Angiuli, New Trier
Hunter Fast, Bloomington
Greg Gauthier, Wheaton North
Greg Peterson, Maine South
Justin Stoncius, Carbondale



Thanks to everyone who tried out.

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Post by Trevkeeper » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:51 pm

Congratulations to those who made Team Illinois. 'Twas a fun day.

And thanks to the IHSSBCA for letting us sit in on their meeting, it was an interesting experience.

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Post by OP_Huskies » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:28 am

what meeting did you guys sit in on for IHSSBCA???

GAHHHH I need to make this post longer.

JB

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Post by Tegan » Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:45 pm

On a tangent,

The Octangular questions are now cleared for discussion, comments, blasting, nitpicking, etc. Feedback is always welcome. To avoid repetition:

1. Requests for "write more buzzer beaters": Not happening. Pyramidality is in.

2. Reuests for "more pop culture, sports, NASCAR, industrial arts, etc": also, no. One TU and one bonus/20 is the limit.

3. Did you catch the math errors? Yes I did, I thought I caught them. They were inexcusable. I am sorry....especially to the bread and butter math players.

While I want comments of all kinds from all corners, there are two questions I am keenly interested in:

A. Should we cut back to 18 questions? For those at Fenwick, were 16 OK? One suggestion was 20 TU, with only 15 bonuses (or some such).

B. More math or was this OK (note: if your last name ends in -inder, -authier, or -eterson, I already know your answer, there is no need to respond..... there can never be enough math.

I was especially happy that the Turkmenbashi question did not get cut at Fenwick ...... and I may claim to have written the first toss-up about a imerick that was actually a limerick.

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Post by Deviant Insider » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:50 pm

The questions were good, and we will be happy to go again next year if questions of the same quality are used.

I would have preferred more than 16 questions per match, but it is true that tournaments using 20 generally run behind. I am very much against the 20 tossups/15 bonuses idea.
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Post by David Riley » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:54 pm

I agree--my experience has been that tournaments that do this don't expect most of the tossups to be answered; I think the Fenwick tournament is a definite exception to this.

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Post by OP_Huskies » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:09 pm

Coach Egan,

The Limerick Q was awesome! It was one of those where I was kind of listening to the words but most of me was like "what is up w/ Mr. Riley's inflection here?!" Then I hear something about a county in Ireland and I'm like "oh *buzz* Limerick." That was quite clever.

Challenge: write an "epic" question that is actually an epic =)

The questions seemed a bit easier to me this year than last, though that may be because I know more (I remember them being nearly impossible last year).

The new emphasis on arts threw me, but only b/c I am not an arts/lit player. It did feel like very other Q was arts/lit, though again, I am probably exaggerating.

The 16 Q games went by real quick, though had we gone any longer we would have overrun. I feel like 18 probably would have been okay.

Thank you for writing the questions, and to all the Friars out there, thank you for hosting. It was quite a well-done, well-run tournament, with a lot of great competition.

JB

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Post by Siverus Snape » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:11 pm

I have to admit: the sole reason I got the Turkmenbashi question was the avatar campaign--and my subsequent Wikipedia look-up because I had never heard of him before.

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Post by JohnAndSlation » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:49 am

The first time I heard the limerick question, I sat there thinking, "He didn't..." That being said, it was a fun question, and very in character.
I'm not the only person who didn't know who Turkmenbashi is! I did the same thing...

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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:46 pm

My interestingly early Masonic Regional predictions:
Winners, in order by site: Moline, Sterling, Auburn, Maine South, Wheaton North, Elmwood, Chillicothe IVC, Seneca, Petersburg PORTA, Springfield, Bloomington, Charleston, O'Fallon, Fairfield, Carbondale. WC: New Trier, St. Ignatius. (My top 5 at state, given these winners: Bloomington, Maine South, Carbondale, Sterling, Auburn.)

Surprising note: With Fremd and Stevenson rebuilding, that sectional isn't as loaded as it usually is. I don't see a crazy upset happening in that sectional.

Losers: Everyone in the Kaneland sectional for driving 2 hours to get killed by Auburn when Boylan's done a passable job of hosting the tournament the past few years in a geographically convienient location; the categories of literature and mathematics in general.

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Post by OPGavin » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:49 am

I thought the concept bonuses (bonuses?) at Fenwick were cool, but not all great. The spelling words with chemical symbols one was a highlight, but the Friends bonus gave too much away (in my opinion) to the rebounding team.

I thought the 16-TU format was pretty short, but that's just me being conditioned to the conference 30-TU format. I know we can't do that many - that would just be too slow & tedious. In fact, I was surprised by the amount of room a 16-TU game actually had - I figured a comeback in most circumstances would be impossible. I think a 20-TU game would be just the right length, though.* All in all, the tournament was great.

Oh, and another vote of confidence for pyramidality from me.

edit: On second thought, I'm inclined to agree that 20 would be too many. I'm also against the idea of having more tossups than bonuses. It would create too many unnecessary problems.

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Post by Tegan » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:33 am

OPGavin wrote:I thought the concept bonuses (bonuses?) at Fenwick were cool, but not all great.
Could you expand on what you mean by concept bonuses .... I'm not sure I follow, nad I want to understand this.
OPGavin wrote:I thought the 16-TU format was pretty short, but that's just me being conditioned to the conference 30-TU format. I know we can't do that many - that would just be too slow & tedious.
According to the new state rules (assuming they were followed), all of the state rounds will be 30 question pyramid style.

I think we are all in agreement that pyramidality is good, but I am really worried that in a 30 question match, especially downstate where schools have two hour travel times on a weeknight to get to a Regional, and then can spend up to nearly five hours with a slow moderator doing 3-4 rounds, that there will be a lot of backlash from the less successful schools who have to travel. There have been some ideas circulated in the past:
1. Move Regionals to a Saturday instead of a school night. This frees up travel.
2. Reduce rounds to 20 questions until the Regional finals.
3. Used timed rounds (I've never been a fan of this, and my experience at Northwestern gives me even more a reason to not support this ... I think timed rounds only work if you have good moderators)
4. Different questions for Class A and Class AA. I don't think this solves the problem as neatly as some think it might. For one, this really hurts the good Class A school if you turn their questions into quick recall buzzer beaters. It also assumes that every Class AA team is automatically good (which is hardly the case). Besides, this panders to the lowest common denominator.

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IESA & the State Series

Post by the return of AHAN » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:04 pm

Just to throw in my 2.4 yen...
In the IESA, as Tegan knows, we use 30 toss-ups and 20 bonuses, and no pyramidiality (did I just make up a word?). Each round consumes less than an hour, since the match is over when all 20 bonuses have been used. This ALSO allows for the "slaughter rule", where the match is over when a team surpasses 301 points (think about it... the highest possible number of points in a 20 bonus match is 600, right?). For tournaments, such as mine, the maximum # of toss-ups is usually cut down to 20. In any event, no one has ever complained that IESA matches aren't long enough.

:kenj:

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Post by First Chairman » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:18 pm

Tom also knows that PACE NSC uses a 28 tossup format, and we usually budget 45 minutes per match. We don't really push speed at the NSC (clarity is preferred of course :) ), but we do push for an efficient execution of the game. No kibbutzing and the moderators should be efficient with their use of time switching between tossups and bonuses. We also do have related bonuses often with our tossups so that a reader doesn't have to flip to another sheet to find the next question. Many times our unrelated tossup-bonus round will also have linked bonuses for this reason. It probably saves about 3-5 seconds per question, but that's a minute or two.
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Post by Tegan » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:26 pm

E.T. Chuck wrote:Many times our unrelated tossup-bonus round will also have linked bonuses for this reason. It probably saves about 3-5 seconds per question, but that's a minute or two.
The only time I have a problem with paired TU/bonuses is when the host writes the questions and has a team participating (not the casae at PACE). Doing this opens up the accusation of putting particular bonuses with particular TU. When I write the octagons, because I will use them at a tournament my team participates in, I keep TU and bonuses seperate. If they were done by a third party, I have no problem.

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Post by Jax » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:47 pm

IHSA posted all regional match-ups today. New Trier Sect.... yikes.

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Post by friarup » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:31 pm

Yeah Jackson, I can't really say it any better. Even though the sectional is stacked, I'm looking forward to it. There's something about plating great teams that gets my blood pumping. Whoever wins this sectional should do well at state. Call the fenwick tournament a bloodbath? This should be just as good.

Speaking of the fenwick tournament...thanks to all who came out. It's always fun playing those great teams... However, I'm pretty sure most of the blood in the bloodbath was Friar blood. There's nothing more humbling than going 0-7...in one day...NOTHING. We didn't have our best two players...but as the old addage goes, "Losers make excuses, winners make plays."

PS. Regional matchups...http://www.ihsa.org/activity/scb/2006-07/2pair.htm


PPS. Mason Bowl Regionals on Saturday...Woo!
2007 Fenwick Girls' Basketball Class AA State Champions...Eat it with a fork Bolingbrook!

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Post by cornfused » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:36 pm

Yeah, it's a little ridiculous. For instance, a team like Schaumburg could beat Lake Forest, Maine East, New Trier, Maine South, AND Oak Park-River Forest... and still not make it downstate. I mean, that's not gonna happen, but the fact that it COULD makes me a little mad at the IHSA.

Meanwhile, the magical Marist sectional is only 29.05 miles away...

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Post by OP_Huskies » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:56 pm

Yeah, OPRF & Fenwick used to be in the Marist sectional. In fact, as recently as my sophomore we were in there.

Then we have the two best seasons in OPRF history. And what happens? We get put into the sectional of death? Conspiracy to keep OPRF down? Of course not, but you can see why I'm peeved.

Anyway, It will be good to see who will emerge from that sectional. Hell, I even feel like it is a bit stronger than last year, simply because the west- and northwest-suburbs teams have improved relative to the other teams in the state. I feel like the team that emerges with the plaque from NT is good for at worst fourth in state.

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Post by MJG » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:01 am

Wow. And I was always sad that Auburn was in our sectional!

I can't wait for Masonic on Saturday though, Rock Falls is so much closer than the burbs.

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Post by JIrving » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:22 pm

I'd like to bring up an issue that recently surfaced at our Masonic Sectional tournament. Our team answered a math question in a certain form that was not accepted by the moderator, even though it was correct. The team facing us, Fenwick, knew it was right, but they did not voice a protest, even though we had done the same for them earlier. Isn't that a breach of ethics according to the rules? I would advise Fenwick not to do this again. We, as a team, are tired of this kind of behavior. Please do not do it again, and an apology would be nice as well.

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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:22 pm

JIrving wrote:I'd like to bring up an issue that recently surfaced at our Masonic Sectional tournament. Our team answered a math question in a certain form that was not accepted by the moderator, even though it was correct. The team facing us, Fenwick, knew it was right, but they did not voice a protest, even though we had done the same for them earlier. Isn't that a breach of ethics according to the rules? I would advise Fenwick not to do this again. We, as a team, are tired of this kind of behavior. Please do not do it again, and an apology would be nice as well.
1. Did Fenwick actually know it was right? Math is notoriously hard to judge whether or not a team knows something in situations like this.
2. Regardless of whether or not they knew it was right, did your team voice a protest? It is not Fenwick's job to protest your claims. If your team didn't ask the moderator for a protest, it simply looks like you got the question wrong and moved on.
3. Given that you protested the question, why wouldn't the moderator accept the idea that it could be equivalent and/or see the work that proves equivalence?

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Post by Deviant Insider » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:27 pm

There is no IHSA or Masonic policy stating that the opposing team should support a protest even if they believe it is correct. Last weekend, IHSSBCA passed ethics guidelines that we will publish soon that does handle the situation as you described it and does in fact tell coaches that they should do the right thing in the situation. However, this policy has not yet been published and will not be binding after it is published.

In recent years, the norms have pushed in the favor of more sportsmanship, and fortunately there are now many coaches who speak in favor of the other team when the situation warrants it. I hope such behavior will become universal, but it is not yet so.

One thing you should be aware of is that this board has a policy against calling out other teams as you have done. This policy was put in place after several such accusations led to annoying flame wars. While you may have made your post with honorable intentions, you should consider editing it so that it does not mention your opponent by name and gives a full description of the situation. (The moderators also have a policy against certain edits, so maybe they can give advice as to whether or not my advice is any good here.) Keep in mind that other people on this board were not in the room and thus have no idea as to whether your complaint has any merit to it.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

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fenwick88
Kimahri
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:22 pm

protest

Post by fenwick88 » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:30 pm

the reasons we (fenwick) didnt support the protest are

a) the answer booklet specificially said "accept no variations" (as the moderator stated several times), so they obviously took your answer into account and decided they would only accept the one answer, for whatever reason.



p.s. we still won by 35 points i believe, so that question didnt even affect the outcome of the match
Last edited by fenwick88 on Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cornfused
Auron
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:22 pm
Location: Des Moines, IA

Post by cornfused » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:36 pm

Masonic Sectionals: Palatine (Fremd)

1. New Trier
2. Maine South
3. Stevenson
4. Fremd
C. Lake Zurich

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