RESULTS: Harrison (IN) wins QU NAC 2007!

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RESULTS: Harrison (IN) wins QU NAC 2007!

Post by AKKOLADE » Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:33 pm

Every national deserves a discussion, regardless of my personal feelings on them.

Apparently a junior high school from Parkersburg is attempting to attend the Washington D.C. branch. It's hard to say how good of a team they were since there were only three junior high tournaments in state this year. It'll be interesting to see how this goes (and how much Chip favoritism is dished out at least on the web page).

So discuss NAC away!

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Post by First Chairman » Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:50 pm

Well, I have no personal feelings on the tournament, but then again I never played there.

I don't know... I'd have a problem with accepting invitations from a junior high team that qualified from a junior high school event. Of course, Chip has been known to take 8th graders before and pump up their history in the competition. Of course, Chip has no controversial pop culture that shouldn't fall on the young'un's ears that I know of, but I just don't know if I would do that.
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Post by orangecrayon » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:00 am

When you say "junior high," are we talking grades 6-8 or 7-9? If we're talking about a team of (mostly) ninth graders, then they (the team in question), might have a decent case, as I can think of at least one high school (Holland Hall in Tulsa, Okla.) that only took freshmen their first year at NAC and made it to the second round of the playoffs.

If we're talking all/mostly eighth graders though...good question. If they won a game, it'd be pretty embarrassing for the high schoolers they beat.

I guess it all comes down to who they've played. Have they only played junior high tournaments? According to the rules on :chip:'s Web site, teams must be from a high school, but then again, he's not exactly a stickler for the rules when he can benefit from it...

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Post by Jackson_Raj » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:15 pm

Uh...it is true that a jr. high school team has in fact registered for the D.C. phase for the NAC...considering I'm on that team.

I go to Jackson Jr. High School. Jackson's currently comprised of 7th-9th graders, but Jackson will be changing to a middle school in 2 years. Our team comprises of three 9th graders, including myself, and two 8th graders.

This year we've competed in 5 Jr. High tournaments; 4 of them were held state wide, and 1 of them was only for teams in the Mid Ohio Valley. We placed 1st at each tournament we competed at this year.

Our coach called Chip a few weeks ago. He said it would be fine for us to attend, since it only specifies that you have to win "an academic competition of at least 8 teams."

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Post by evilmonkey » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:19 pm

I don't think the fact that your team was going was the question. However, the gentlemen posting above did make a point - most teams qualified by placing first in a tournament with high school teams, while your team (as you stated) placed first in five Jr. High tournaments. Your team might be an excellent team. However, it seems odd that you can qualify for a High School National Championship through a Jr. High tournament.

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Post by evilmonkey » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:21 pm

And to orangecrayon: Can you do a cut-and-paste of the section of :chip: website that said the team must be a high school team? That may be more authoritative than you just saying it.

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Re: NAC Discussion

Post by Jackson_Raj » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:29 pm

leftsaidfred wrote:
Apparently a junior high school from Parkersburg is ATTEMPTING to attend the Washington D.C. branch.
I really do understand where you are coming from. And, to be honest, I didn't think that we would be allowed as well, considering, as you said, it is a high school national championship.

If there was a jr. high national tournament, we would be way more motivated to attend that than the NAC, considering it'd be fair to both the teams that are attending and it would also give us a better chance.

Actually, we tried to get into a the state high school tournament so we would be able to qualify fairly, but our local high school was already representing our county at States.

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Post by Jackson_Raj » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:32 pm

Here's the statement that you were looking for under the rules and regulations.

"1. Each contest features two teams of four players each from one high school."

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Re: NAC Discussion

Post by evilmonkey » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:38 pm

Jackson_Raj wrote: Actually, we tried to get into a the state high school tournament so we would be able to qualify fairly, but our local high school was already representing our county at States.
Huh... maybe you should try to play in high school tournaments. I'm sure if you are actually comparable to high school teams (which you might be), and your coach believes this and talks to tournament directors, you could be allowed to play.

Then, if you prove to be better than your local school, you can go in their place.

Obviously this means nothing to me, as my school is not going to NAC nationals (I believe we qualify, but as my coach, myself (captain of my team), and the rest of my team abhor NAC format, we will never attend :chip: nationals.

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Post by orangecrayon » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:13 pm

Jackson_raj got the first part of what I was going for.

The other rule I was going by in my original post is pasted below from http://www.qunlimited.com/rules.htm :
A team consists of players from one high school whom the school has declared eligible. Eighth graders can be deemed eligible for participation. [JONATHAN HESS RULE]

When I made my original post, I didn't know the team's grade make-up and there's nothing in the rules about seventh-graders. However, that's now a non-issue.

(For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to be authoritative in the first post. Am just an NAC alumna who dealt with :chip: in high school.)

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Re: NAC Discussion

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:21 pm

Jackson_Raj wrote:
leftsaidfred wrote:Apparently a junior high school from Parkersburg is ATTEMPTING to attend the Washington D.C. branch.
I really do understand where you are coming from. And, to be honest, I didn't think that we would be allowed as well, considering, as you said, it is a high school national championship.

If there was a jr. high national tournament, we would be way more motivated to attend that than the NAC, considering it'd be fair to both the teams that are attending and it would also give us a better chance.

Actually, we tried to get into a the state high school tournament so we would be able to qualify fairly, but our local high school was already representing our county at States.
I think you're reading a bit much into the statement. I posted it on March 31st, a month ago and before you confirmed your attendance at NAC. Therefore, in an attempt to generate some discussion on the ignored national tournament, I posted a thread containing that I had heard - hence, the apparently - that your team might - hence, the attempting - to go to DC for Chippy. That's all I was trying to say, and nothing about Chip's rules about attending nationals.

As for your team's selection of NAC - that's fine with me. If I were a coach of a junior high team, that would seem like a tempting tournament to attend - I would have also looked at NAQT, but it's difficult to enter their field this year.

I also think it's tremendous that you guys are going to a nationals. It shows to me a level of commitment that is sorely lacking in West Virginia. I hope your team continues to improve, and believe that if you do you'll be possible two time state championship and a top tier team at NAQT or PACE.

I read for you at Parkersburg Catholic for a round, and I thought your team was pretty good in the grand scheme of things, even though you played on horriawful KMO questions and as such that muddled my ability to evaluate. However, I don't think you would have made the playoffs at WV state in either class size, but you would have come decently close. Worst case scenario, I'll project you at seventh in AAA or sixth in AA-A. I also think you'll do well at NAC.

Now, don't take this paragraph as an attack upon you, your teammates or coach. It's intended as a bit of a warning. The fact is, I and others will have a difficult time evaluating your performance at NAC for a variety of reasons. First of all, the questions are considered by most to be of poor quality, especially when compared with those produced by NAQT and PACE. Secondly, Chip has a reputation of favoritism and attention seeking. Unfortunately for you, your unusual predicament as a junior high team from a rural area competing against larger senior high school teams from "the big city" is the kind of thing that Chip will likely promote like it's going out of style. The question will become if Chip put together a schedule in favor of you or favored you in your matches, regardless of if your team was a willing party or not. This is just the problem caused by the common criticisms of Chip.

To avoid ending on a downer, I really do want to wish you the best of luck at NAC and welcome you to this forum. You guys have a lot of talent and I'd like to see what you can do with that in the next three years.

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Post by Jackson_Raj » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:03 pm

Thanks for those kind words! It's definitely a confidence booster after having just gone through some of the NAC practice questions today. Being considered good enough to beat any high school team is always quite an honor, especially at the state tournament.

Which room did you read? I'm guessing the gym in the finals, possibly?

Regarding Parkersburg Catholic- At the tournament that day, we were missing both our captain and our top scorer. I'm not saying it would have made a huge and lasting impact on our performance, but it definitely dealt a blow to our round robin scores...we were just happy to get to the finals that day.

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Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:45 pm

I read for you guys versus Edison C team in one of the classrooms (it was for geometry or something). I only read in the morning.

You guys do have a lot of talent, just keep working at it and you'll only get better.

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Post by First Chairman » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:46 pm

That reminds me... one day, Byko and/or I should think about a trip to WV. Unfortunately, Fred probably won't be there. :cry:
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Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:01 pm

I'm still in the stage of working on the not being here, but I have no idea when that stage will be ending. As long as I'm here though and cool quiz bowl people are in the Parkersburg area let me know and I'll definitely be willing to advise you of nice things in town.

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Post by Byko » Tue May 01, 2007 9:44 am

Full Devil Jacket wrote:That reminds me... one day, Byko and/or I should think about a trip to WV. Unfortunately, Fred probably won't be there. :cry:
Yeah, West Virginia and Kentucky are definitely on my list for next season. It's looking more and more likely that at least one Bykowski (probably two) will be at Kentucky's coaches conference in September.

Regarding the junior high team from West Virginia--since Tom and I are looking to do some observation and networking for a couple days at NAC at Marymount, I have a feeling we'll run into you. Best of luck--we'll look forward to seeing how you do.
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Post by quizbowllee » Tue May 01, 2007 9:58 am

For what it is worth, when my current varsity team at Brindlee Mountain (currently all Juniors) were in 8th grade, NAQT allowed us to play in the NAQT High School State Tournament. We beat several teams, including Russellville with Slade Gilmer during his senior year. We were asked to attend the NAQT HSNCT that year, as a middle school team. However, we were financially unable to do so. We wouldn't have done exceptionally well, but I am confident that we would have won at least a match or two. The next year, as an all freshman team, they got 3rd in Small Schools at HSNCT and placed 3rd in Consolation at PACE. I don't think that there was a HUGE difference in their abilities from 8th to 9th grades.

Furthermore, at the HSNCT in 2005 and 2006, I played 7th and 8th graders on my "B" team. In fact, our "B" team's top player last year was an 8th grader. They went 4-6 in prelims and made it to the small school playoffs. Unfortunately that particular 8th grader (now 9th grader) is no longer with the team.

My point is that it's not unheard of to have middle schoolers play in national high school tournaments. I've done it a few times. As coach, I really don't care what grade someone is in as long as they are the best player for the team.

Also, I'd like to see a middle school national tournament held by a REAL entity (NAQT or PACE) in the near future.

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Post by STPickrell » Tue May 01, 2007 12:08 pm

orangecrayon wrote:Jackson_raj got the first part of what I was going for.

The other rule I was going by in my original post is pasted below from http://www.qunlimited.com/rules.htm :
A team consists of players from one high school whom the school has declared eligible. Eighth graders can be deemed eligible for participation. [JONATHAN HESS RULE]

When I made my original post, I didn't know the team's grade make-up and there's nothing in the rules about seventh-graders. However, that's now a non-issue.

(For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to be authoritative in the first post. Am just an NAC alumna who dealt with :chip: in high school.)
It seems to me that since the team consists of 8th and 9th graders, the team *could* "officially" represent the high school to which it feeds.

I know that in VHSL competition, students attending a feeder middle or junior high are eligible under the same provisions that apply to 8th and 9th graders.

Good luck!

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Post by Jackson_Raj » Tue May 01, 2007 6:41 pm

leftsaidfred wrote:I read for you guys versus Edison C team in one of the classrooms (it was for geometry or something). I only read in the morning.
Oh...I remember now...ok.

I'm just curious...how did you find out that we were possibly going to attend nationals March 31st? (I didn't post that we were going on the WV forum until...April 25th, I believe?).

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Post by AKKOLADE » Tue May 01, 2007 6:58 pm

Two words: People talk.

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Post by Jackson_Raj » Tue May 01, 2007 7:07 pm

Ok...I assumed as much...but...did you find out at a tournament? Because I don't think we ever had even talked about it with anyone else before the Catholic tournament.

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Post by sweaver » Wed May 02, 2007 10:18 pm

In case anyone is curious, Jackson Jr. High is a feeder school for Parkersburg High School.
StPickrell wrote:
It seems to me that since the team consists of 8th and 9th graders, the team *could* "officially" represent the high school to which it feeds.

I know that in VHSL competition, students attending a feeder middle or junior high are eligible under the same provisions that apply to 8th and 9th graders.

Good luck!

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Post by DH TTHS » Thu May 03, 2007 4:51 am

Walnut Hills is going to NAQT nationals(at least I am pretty sure that they are going), and one of their best players is in 8th grade.
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Post by Jackson_Raj » Fri May 04, 2007 5:20 pm

Does anyone know of any other teams going to :chip: 's tournament at D.C.?

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Post by Byko » Wed May 16, 2007 10:23 am

For those interested, some semblance of a prelim San Antonio schedule has been posted:

http://www.qunlimited.com/sasched7.htm

I say some semblance because it will have to be fixed, as 4 teams (Lake George, Claremore, Morris Area, and Penn Manor) only have 5 games right now and everyone else has 6. Insert your own joke here.
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Post by Matt Weiner » Wed May 16, 2007 1:55 pm

Byko wrote:Insert your own joke here.
With gusto!
For those interested, [...] qunlimited [...] will [...] be fixed.

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Post by Byko » Wed May 16, 2007 3:13 pm

Somehow, I should have seen that coming.

They've now fixed the schedule. Clearly I care too much about this.
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Post by jrbarry » Fri May 18, 2007 11:09 pm

Looks like the NAC is shrinking slowly. Last time I went to New Orleans to the NAC, we had three playing rooms and we played only 4 prelims and not 6. OK, maybe it was 5.

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Post by mhanna » Sat May 19, 2007 1:56 pm

Chip is a marketer and I look for NAC to rebound. I predict that there will be changes before next year to slow the bleeding.

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Post by Byko » Sun May 20, 2007 1:11 pm

jrbarry wrote:Looks like the NAC is shrinking slowly. Last time I went to New Orleans to the NAC, we had three playing rooms and we played only 4 prelims and not 6. OK, maybe it was 5.
About 4 years ago, the preliminary round games were shrunk slightly so that each team could have 6 guaranteed matches instead of 4, a very good change indeed. When I had played in New Orleans in 1996, there were 3 playing rooms back then, but there were also only 2 sites, not 3. Nonetheless, he still handled 125 teams at 2 sites that year, a record that stood for a decent amount of time for him.

The Washington site has traditionally been the largest of the three year after year, and this year surely will be no exception. But this is a markedly smaller field for the Gulf Coast area, and there are notably few Texas teams in attendance, a surprise since Texas has traditionally been one of Chip's strongest markets. To get back to the size he has seen in the past, Chip will definitely have to drum up a lot more business in the Lone Star State.
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Post by First Chairman » Sun May 20, 2007 1:31 pm

I suppose we will see after the Marymount schedule gets posted... but I would agree I would be very surprised that more teams aren't in New Orleans. It is possible that the "new" Orlando location will make up for a lot of "losses" in that field since I can see more teams wanting to take their Disney vacation and hook up with Chip.

The other thing that may relate to the dearth of PAC is that Chip's event is in Orlando, so a lot of teams that are all-star teams can't really double-dip.
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Post by mhanna » Sun May 20, 2007 5:18 pm

I look for 90 teams or less total with a large contingent from Westchester County, NY.

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Post by Jackson_Raj » Sun May 20, 2007 8:24 pm

The Marymount schedule just came up today. We're pretty happy with the schedule :chip: gave us, because it gives us time to roam around D.C.

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Post by btressler » Mon May 21, 2007 7:32 am

I count 89 teams this year.

For comparison:

2006: 101 teams
2005: 114 teams
2004: 112 teams
2003: 105 teams
2002: 129 teams

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Post by Byko » Mon May 21, 2007 9:48 am

Questions Unlimited wrote:Saturday, 8:15 am:
Reinsch Auditorium
Lamar vs. Ticonderoga

Bernie's
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I'm looking forward to seeing one team play two matches in two different rooms at the same time.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon May 21, 2007 12:47 pm

Anything can happen at the NAC. Haven't you learned that yet?
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Post by vcuEvan » Mon May 21, 2007 2:12 pm

Gonzaga could do it. It would be one of Ted's miracles.

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Post by First Chairman » Mon May 21, 2007 2:32 pm

As long as don't have him "make it rain" a la Popeye Jones :wink: .
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Post by theMoMA » Mon May 21, 2007 2:43 pm

E.T. Chuck wrote:As long as don't have him "make it rain" a la Popeye Jones :wink: .
Image?

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Post by Jackson_Raj » Mon May 21, 2007 4:33 pm

mhanna wrote:I look for 90 teams or less total with a large contingent from Westchester County, NY.
Both Byram Hills and Hastings will be going to Orlando this year, as well as the other top teams at the NAC from last year, including White Plains, Shanghai American, St. Thomas, and St. Joseph's.

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Post by AKKOLADE » Mon May 21, 2007 5:56 pm

E.T. Chuck wrote:As long as don't have him "make it rain" a la Popeye Jones :wink: .
Adam "Pacman" Jones is the Tennessee Titan and former West Virginia Unviersity Mountaineer cornerback and kick returner who famously made it rain at a strip club and then punched a stripper in the face for trying to pick up the money.

Ronald "Popeye" Jones is the former Dallas Maverick, Toronto Raptor, Boston Celtic, Denver Nugget, Washington Wizard and Golden State Warrior (and product of Murray State University) who famously horrified small children with his ugly mug.

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Post by First Chairman » Mon May 21, 2007 6:04 pm

ok my bad
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Post by mhanna » Mon May 21, 2007 6:30 pm

Add Wilmington Charter to the Orlando list. Looks as if the field with be pretty solid.

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon May 21, 2007 6:35 pm

Nothing about :chip: is ever solid.
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Post by AKKOLADE » Mon May 21, 2007 7:07 pm

charlieDfromNKC wrote:Nothing about :chip: is ever solid.
He does draw a decent talent base, including teams that would perform well at NAQT or PACE.

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue May 22, 2007 8:08 am

That wasn't my point.
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Post by First Chairman » Tue May 22, 2007 8:13 am

It is a lot better now that it used to be, when the single-elimination pairings were done with a rather weird seeding matchup arrangement (like... completely random pairing of the 2 and the 5 seed in round 3 or something... need to look up "wayback").
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Post by jrbarry » Tue May 22, 2007 5:30 pm

I have never really gotten over the NAC in Arlington back in 1995. It was only my third time at NAC (1988, 1989, 1995) anmd I had been talked into going by two senior boys who wanted ot give it a shot along with our usual ASCN appearance.

We played a strong Indian Springs team and lost (appartently) by 10 points in a match where we were robbed of a correct anser on a 15-point tossup. "Define and spell ambivalent." My captain spelled it properly and said "undecided between two differing views." That was ruled incorrect. IS captain spells it properly and sas "Not caring which side you take." IS answwer was ruled correct. I protested at the end of gher 4th Q and was told my kid's definition was wrong. I contended that IS defined apathetic not ambivalent.

Well, after dinner, an Irmo kid came by and told me we had been declared the "winners" in our IS match. I went to the official board and saw that BOTH IS and Brookwood had been awarded wins in that match which was listed as a tie. (That outcome had already occurred in an earlier match in that tournament and was the talk of the tournament.) I thought that Chip simply did not want to decide my protest in the ambivalent question and let us both win.

The next morning, my team and I were in the van driving through the parking lot on the way to some sightseeing when some kid unknown rto mke ran alongside the van and I stopped. He said Chip had told him to find me and tell me my team was needed at some venue to play a tiebreaker to decide the IS match. I should have driven off. But, fascinated at the deal, I took my kids to where we were supposed to go and Chip himself had assembled about 100 peopel to watch this one question tiebreaker.

I threw my biggest fit in 25 years of coaching quiz bowl. I am told it was a doozy and I even called the Chipster a name or two. I was determined that we would simply refuse to play that tiebreaker to a match we had rightfully won and had been awarded a W on Chip's official board. My captain talked me into letting them play and we lost to IS on that tiebreaker.

I guess it is amazing I went back to the NAC in 2002 and 2003 and 2004. But, alas, I am a sucker for my kids requests!

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Post by DH TTHS » Tue May 22, 2007 5:55 pm

Call me craz, but in a very sick and perverted way, I have always kind of had an urge to go to this tournament, and have :chip: really screw over my team in a match, just to see how horrible this tournament really is, and experience it first hand.
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Post by AKKOLADE » Tue May 22, 2007 5:57 pm

charlieDfromNKC wrote:That wasn't my point.
I didn't mean to make it look like you said NAC's teams were crap. I was just trying to refute you stating that "nothing" about it was solid (and I interpret this as a somewhat tongue-in-cheek statement) while simultaneously pointing out that that's about the one solid thing about it.
jrbarry wrote:The next morning, my team and I were in the van driving through the parking lot on the way to some sightseeing when some kid unknown rto mke ran alongside the van and I stopped. He said Chip had told him to find me and tell me my team was needed at some venue to play a tiebreaker to decide the IS match. I should have driven off. But, fascinated at the deal, I took my kids to where we were supposed to go and Chip himself had assembled about 100 peopel to watch this one question tiebreaker.

I threw my biggest fit in 25 years of coaching quiz bowl. I am told it was a doozy and I even called the Chipster a name or two. I was determined that we would simply refuse to play that tiebreaker to a match we had rightfully won and had been awarded a W on Chip's official board. My captain talked me into letting them play and we lost to IS on that tiebreaker.
That's about the :chip:iest thing I've ever heard. And your teams still wanted to go after you told them those stories?

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