2007 Pre-Nationals National Poll Results

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AKKOLADE
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2007 Pre-Nationals National Poll Results

Post by AKKOLADE » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:31 pm

The balloting results can be found here:

http://www.wvquizbowl.org/apr07.html

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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm

Wow incredible job Fred, you really put the college poll to shame. I hereby nominate you to take over the college poll for life. Is there a second?

Edit: Also, people thought a high school poll wouldn't be feasible due to regional bias, but apparently sufficient ballots were cast to where that pretty much balanced out, because this looks pretty fair/representative of different regions.
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Post by Trevkeeper » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:29 am

Wow that's nice looking, thanks for doing that.

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Post by AKKOLADE » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:06 am

I just updated the colors and changed the text. Matt Weiner let me modify one of his previous poll results, and Craig let him do that with an old college poll result. They made that a lot easier to do.

I do plan on doing another poll this year, after all the nationals have completed.

Also, a note: with Stuyvesant, apparently each team has a different nickname. Without finding a nickname used for their quiz bowl team, they got the obvious nickname.

Please let me know if I mangled your school's colors/nickname/name/location. I did the best that I could with finding the necessary information, but I probably screwed something up somewhere.

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Post by cdbarker » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:12 am

Looks good Fred, and a kudos on all of the hard work in putting it together.

Technically I will mention that Detroit Catholic Central is now in Novi, MI.

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:20 am

It looks PRETTY!!!!!
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Post by EricLeMaster » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:03 am

It does look nice, well done!

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Post by Sir Thopas » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:40 am

Wow, very nice. Are you going to release all the ballots (anonymously or whatever), or are we just to live off the final results? Either way, it looks awesome.

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Post by ecks » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:09 pm

Great job, although I'm wondering why Bloomington is ranked ahead of New Trier, given that New Trier won the state championship and Bloomington went 1-2...
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Post by Matt Weiner » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:46 pm

ecks wrote:Great job, although I'm wondering why Bloomington is ranked ahead of New Trier, given that New Trier won the state championship and Bloomington went 1-2...
Who cares about IHSA questions? I ranked Illinois teams based on how they did at the UIUC tournament and the Northwestern NAQT tournament, since I can rely on those questions and the BC stats were something that could easily be compared to other regions. (I still ranked New Trier highest among the four Illinois teams for whom I voted since they did perform better by those criteria.)

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Post by leapfrog314 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:27 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:Who cares about IHSA questions?
Actually, the IHSA Terms & Conditions were changed last year to require pyramidal questions, and we were all very pleasantly surprised by the quality of the IHSA questions this year. In fact, I was quite pleased with the IHSA State Series this year. Hopefully the pyramidality and generally high quality remains in future years. Granted, I'm biased for telling you not to disregard IHSA results, but this year's questions were a huge step forward from the ridiculous buzzer beaters of last year.

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Post by Tegan » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:50 pm

To quickly divert this from becoming Illinois II, I think what Dr. Weiner was saying is that even to learned types from out of state, question quality is always difficult to determine unless you go with:

1. a proven national provider (NAQT or PACE)

2. a local provider with a proven track record in knowing good questions from bad (such as the brethern at The UIUC).

Further, it isn't possible to know all of the results of all the local tournaments. True, Bloomington did not advance in the state tournament, but that's just one tournament. You need to look at the whole resume to see where a team is ....

This goes for any state. The east coasters as a whole have a better feel for what they do because it is far less uncommon to cross borders and play.

Admittadly, this means the poll was based on relatively limited current data, though the fact that so many Illinois teams finished as high as they did was shocking ... though not in an unpleasant way.

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Post by johnboy81918 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:39 pm

charlieDfromNKC wrote:It looks PRETTY!!!!!
Except for the fact that you are on there and we aren't :sad:

:cool:

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Post by AKKOLADE » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:42 pm

Thanks again for all the kind words. I corrected the Novi-Detroit thing along with the name of Madisonville-North Hopkins. Apologies for these two errors.

And I don't plan on taking over the college poll. I am involved with the high school game as a freelance reader/TD/organizer/coach/forum administrator. This keeps me connected to this particular level of the game.

My real involvement on the college level has consisted of attending one tournament, futilely trying to form a team five years ago and writing a inconsequential number of trash questions. Well, and these forums too, though I don't know how much that counts. I'd prefer people like Eric Kwartler, who are smart enough to actually get questions right at events and know what is going on far better than I, to run the college poll. It's also for this reason that I typically stay out of the college discussions, barring the discussion varying to a more general topic or an opportunity for me to pretend I'm witty. I'll let the people who actually know what is going on take charge of that particular topic.

But, if whoever does the next college poll would like me to design it for them, feel free to e-mail me and I'll gladly help out.

And that was a lot more words than I realized I was typing.
charlieDfromNKC wrote:It looks PRETTY!!!!!
Mission accomplished. :cool:

And for the Bloomington-New Trier difference: first of all, that's not a very large swap in vote totals. Secondly, outsiders like Matt and myself are prone to put more value in formats we're familiar with like PACE and NAQT; if that's fair or not, I don't know, though I did recognize that IHSA had improved their question content (last year, if I had voted, I likely would not have put much stock in the tournament at all). Thirdly, it's just one tournament, so sample size and all that. Finally, we're not talking about a scientific process here. This is a very subjective event and should really be used for entertainment purposes only. If you're going around, telling other teams, "We finished Xth in the hsquizbowl poll and you were Yth," you should probably reconsider making that statement.

And for what it's worth, I had New Trier as eighth in the nation and Bloomington as 11th.

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Post by dyetman89 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:47 pm

Great job, Fred. Very purdy, and of course flattering to see my humble squad make the top ten.

Maybe I'm out on a limb here, but I for one would love to see the ballots revealed, with names (and possibly addresses and social security numbers) attached, if only to see who thought RM and 'Zaga should be ranked 14th. That's high comedy, folks. High com-e-dy!

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:50 pm

Ditto for Stuyvesant 18. But I guess you were being humble.
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Post by AKKOLADE » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:14 pm

dyetman89 wrote:Maybe I'm out on a limb here, but I for one would love to see the ballots revealed, with names!
I recognize the degree of sarcasm in the post, but there's a reason I did a chop job in the quote - I will not be announcing whose ballot was whose. I did not state that would be a condition of submitting the ballot. My reasoning is that people would be willing to give a more honest view without having to worry about being criticized. My logic could be fractured there, but that's the decision I made.

The next post will contain all of the ballots, in order from 1st to 25th. I've identified my ballot in there, and if others would like to do the same, they can do so.
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Post by AKKOLADE » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:15 pm

Ballot #1

Maggie Walker A VA
Gonzaga DC
Richard Montomgery A MD
Dorman A SC
Wilmington Charter DE
Livingston NJ
State College PA
Stuyvesant NY
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Maggie Walker B VA
Raleigh Charter NC
Chattahoochee GA
Bellaire TX
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Danville KY
Cistercian TX
Santa Monica CA
Aiken SC
Eden Prairie MN
Hunter NY
E.O. Smith CT
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Brindlee Mountain AL
Troy MI
North Kansas City MO

Ballot #2

Maggie Walker A VA
Richard Montomgery A MD
Dorman A SC
State College PA
Gonzaga DC
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Chattahoochee GA
Troy MI
Wilmington Charter DE
Danville KY
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Stuyvesant NY
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Eden Prairie MN
North Kansas City MO
Raleigh Charter NC
Bloomington IL
Central Gwinnett GA
Dorman B SC
Brindlee Mountain AL
New Trier IL
Livingston NJ
Brookwood GA
Dunbar KY
Richard Montomgery B MD

Ballot #3
Maggie Walker A VA
State College PA
Dorman A SC
Richard Montomgery A MD
Troy MI
East Lansing MI
Gonzaga DC
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Chattahoochee GA
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Eden Prairie MN
North Kansas City MO
Stuyvesant NY
Johnson Central KY
Raleigh Charter NC
Wilmington Charter DE
Bloomington IL
Dorman B SC
Brookwood GA
Carbondale IL
Maine South IL
New Trier IL
Shady Side PA
Novi MI
St. Anthony MN

Ballot #4
Maggie Walker A VA
Richard Montomgery A MD
State College PA
Gonzaga DC
Dorman A SC
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Chattahoochee GA
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Danville KY
Raleigh Charter NC
Richard Montomgery B MD
Dunbar KY
Milliburn NJ
Wilmington Charter DE
Stuyvesant NY
Walt Whitman MD
Hunter NY
Dorman B SC
Dupont Manual KY
Moravian PA
Georgetown Day School DC
Blake MD
Walter Johnston MD
Thomas Jefferson B VA

Ballot #5 - gonzagapuma1
Maggie Walker A VA
Richard Montomgery A MD
State College PA
Dorman A SC
Gonzaga DC
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Chattahoochee GA
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Raleigh Charter NC
Dunbar KY
Wilmington Charter DE
Richard Montomgery B MD
Stuyvesant NY
Brookwood GA
Danville KY
North Kansas City MO
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Dupont Manual KY
Walt Whitman MD
Georgetown Day School DC
Thomas Jefferson B VA
Moravian PA
Dorman B SC
Blake MD
Hunter NY

Ballot #6
Maggie Walker A VA
State College PA
Richard Montomgery A MD
Gonzaga DC
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Dorman A SC
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Stuyvesant NY
Chattahoochee GA
East Lansing MI
Wilmington Charter DE
Santa Monica CA
Shady Side PA
North Kansas City MO
Raleigh Charter NC
Danville KY
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Dunbar KY
Troy MI
Maggie Walker B VA
Bloomington IL
Dorman B SC
Brindlee Mountain AL
Livingston NJ
Indian Springs AL

Ballot #7
Maggie Walker A VA
State College PA
Richard Montomgery A MD
Thomas Jefferson A VA
North Kansas City MO
Santa Monica CA
Shady Side PA
Troy MI
Dorman A SC
Wilmington Charter DE
East Lansing MI
Stuyvesant NY
Brindlee Mountain AL
Gonzaga DC
Raleigh Charter NC
Eden Prairie MN
Tippecanoe OH
Chattahoochee GA
Bloomington IL
Danville KY
Walter Johnston MD
Lisgar (Canada)
Dunbar KY
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
James Island SC

Ballot #8
Maggie Walker A VA
Eden Prairie MN
Richard Montomgery A MD
State College PA
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Gonzaga DC
Dorman A SC
Shady Side PA
Stuyvesant NY
Chattahoochee GA
Wilmington Charter DE
Troy MI
Lisgar (Canada)
Raleigh Charter NC
Maggie Walker B VA
Detroit Catholic Central MI
East Lansing MI
Cistercian TX
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Brindlee Mountain AL
Danville KY
Central Hardin KY
Dorman B SC
Walter Johnston MD
Ocean Lakes VA

Ballot #9
Maggie Walker A VA
State College PA
Dorman A SC
Richard Montomgery A MD
North Kansas City MO
Wilmington Charter DE
Santa Monica CA
East Lansing MI
Gonzaga DC
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Troy MI
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Eden Prairie MN
Dorman B SC
Stuyvesant NY
Chattahoochee GA
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Maggie Walker B VA
Walt Whitman MD
Danville KY
Raleigh Charter NC
Brookwood GA
Brindlee Mountain AL
Thomas Jefferson B VA
Richard Montomgery B MD

Ballot #10 - tachyonwill
State College PA
Richard Montomgery A MD
Maggie Walker A VA
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Troy MI
Thomas Jefferson B VA
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Dorman A SC
Gonzaga DC
Santa Monica CA
North Kansas City MO
Eden Prairie MN
Bloomington IL
Shady Side PA
Dorman B SC
Brindlee Mountain AL
Wilmington Charter DE
Stuyvesant NY
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Central Gwinnett GA
Chattahoochee GA
Raleigh Charter NC
Walt Whitman MD
Danville KY
New Trier IL

Ballot #11
Maggie Walker A VA
State College PA
Eden Prairie MN
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Gonzaga DC
Dorman A SC
East Lansing MI
Stuyvesant NY
North Kansas City MO
Chattahoochee GA
Brookwood GA
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Troy MI
Richard Montomgery A MD
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Wayzata MN
St. Thomas MN
New Trier IL
Brindlee Mountain AL
Carbondale IL
Bloomington IL
Indian Springs AL
Hopkins KY
Walter Johnston MD
Maine South IL

Ballot #12
Maggie Walker A VA
Richard Montomgery A MD
State College PA
Dorman A SC
Eden Prairie MN
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Stuyvesant NY
Wilmington Charter DE
North Kansas City MO
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Danville KY
Gonzaga DC
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Troy MI
Bloomington IL
New Trier IL
Chattahoochee GA
Santa Monica CA
Raleigh Charter NC
St. Anthony MN
Tippecanoe OH
Wayzata MN
Maggie Walker B VA
Moravian PA
Maine South IL

Ballot #13
State College PA
Maggie Walker A VA
Dorman A SC
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Stuyvesant NY
North Kansas City MO
Gonzaga DC
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Brookwood GA
Chattahoochee GA
Richard Montomgery A MD
Brindlee Mountain AL
Dunbar KY
Cistercian TX
Raleigh Charter NC
James Island SC
Bloomington IL
Heritage GA
Rockford Auburn IL
Maine South IL
Central Gwinnett GA
Madison North KY
Wheaton North IL
Ezell Harding TN
LAMP AL

Ballot #14
Maggie Walker A VA
Richard Montomgery A MD
State College PA
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Gonzaga DC
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Dorman A SC
Wilmington Charter DE
Stuyvesant NY
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Chattahoochee GA
Troy MI
Thomas Jefferson B VA
Walt Whitman MD
Danville KY
North Kansas City MO
Santa Monica CA
Eden Prairie MN
Dunbar KY
New Trier IL
East Lansing MI
Shady Side PA
Brindlee Mountain AL
Livingston NJ
Dorman B SC

Ballot #15
Maggie Walker A VA
Gonzaga DC
State College PA
Eden Prairie MN
North Kansas City MO
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Richard Montomgery A MD
Wilmington Charter DE
Dorman A SC
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Danville KY
Chattahoochee GA
Stuyvesant NY
Raleigh Charter NC
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Brookwood GA
Dorman B SC
Madison North KY
Brindlee Mountain AL
Troy MI
New Trier IL
Blake MD
Bloomington IL
St. Anthony MN
Mission San Jose CA

Ballot #16
Maggie Walker A VA
Richard Montomgery A MD
Dorman A SC
Gonzaga DC
State College PA
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Stuyvesant NY
Wilmington Charter DE
North Kansas City MO
Richard Montomgery B MD
Raleigh Charter NC
Chattahoochee GA
Dunbar KY
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Thomas Jefferson B VA
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Eden Prairie MN
Georgetown Day School DC
Walt Whitman MD
Walter Johnston MD
Hunter NY
Kellenberg NY
Ocean Lakes VA
Centennial MD
Maggie Walker B VA

Ballot #17
Maggie Walker A VA
Richard Montomgery A MD
State College PA
Thomas Jefferson A VA
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Dorman A SC
Eden Prairie MN
Gonzaga DC
Troy MI
Shady Side PA
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Wilmington Charter DE
East Lansing MI
Stuyvesant NY
Walt Whitman MD
North Kansas City MO
Brindlee Mountain AL
Livingston NJ
Chattahoochee GA
Danville KY
Raleigh Charter NC
Central Gwinnett GA
Bloomington IL
Santa Monica CA
Dorman B SC

leftsaidfred's ballot
Maggie Walker A VA
Eden Prairie MN
State College PA
Gonzaga DC
Dorman A SC
Richard Montomgery A MD
Thomas Jefferson A VA
New Trier IL
Stuyvesant NY
Troy MI
Bloomington IL
Wilmington Charter DE
North Kansas City MO
Chattahoochee GA
Martin Luther King Magnent TN
Detroit Catholic Central MI
Kellenberg NY
Raleigh Charter NC
Brookwood GA
Danville KY
East Lansing MI
Tippecanoe OH
Santa Monica CA
Brindlee Mountain AL
Parkersburg Catholic WV
Last edited by AKKOLADE on Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by johnboy81918 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:19 pm

So much NKC lovin' :sad:

Down with Northtown! :twisted:
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Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:47 pm

I'm surprised we made it to 20. Didn't realize we are even that well-known. How many voters from AL voted? Although, you probably can't tell me that.
Andy Knowles
Brindlee Mountain, '08
University of Alabama, '12

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Post by DumbJaques » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:17 pm

Ballot 13 FTW

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Post by The Toad to Wigan Pier » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:33 pm

Ballot #10

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Post by AKKOLADE » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:38 pm

Voters were:

aestheteboy, Bliu, Byko, CMoney, dsimons, gonzagaeagleahy, gonzagapuma1, Hopper, iambusyeating, J.R. Barry, jdd2007, Lapego1, leftsaidfred, Magister Ludi, Matt Weiner, stat74, tachyonwill and vig180

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Post by Gonzagapuma1 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:40 pm

Pretty sure im #5

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Post by aestheteboy » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:55 pm

Half the voters were from the Mid-Atlantic area (including three from Gov and three from Zaga). This must be the explanation of the low rank of Santa Monica!

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Post by AKKOLADE » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:57 pm

An underreporting of stats would also contribute to that.

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Post by Mitu » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:59 pm

Yeah, Eden Prairie was lower than I expected them to be in terms of the overall results.
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Post by Gonzagapuma1 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:31 pm

Really? I think that Eden Prairie were about where they were supposed to be seeing as they haven't played any(that I know of) competition outside of Minnesota.

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Post by Chico the Rainmaker » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:52 pm

aestheteboy wrote:Half the voters were from the Mid-Atlantic area (including three from Gov and three from Zaga). This must be the explanation of the low rank of Santa Monica!
This is to be expected, I think. No matter how many stats you look at, people are more inclined to rank teams they have seen in person higher. Santa Monica plays against (relatively) low-quality competition in Southern California, so it's difficult to say how they'd do against the powerhouse teams. I assume you were on the WJ team we beat at nationals last year and therefore ranked Santa Monica higher than 18th because you've seen them (us? whatever) play. Personally, even being an alumnus, I don't think they deserve to be much higher than they are right now.
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Post by Canadajin » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:28 am

I think that our school was at about the right place as well because we have yet to play any non-Minnesota teams.

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Post by Mitu » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:57 am

Gonzagapuma1 wrote:Really? I think that Eden Prairie were about where they were supposed to be seeing as they haven't played any(that I know of) competition outside of Minnesota.
Oh, good point, I didnt factor that in before I made my statement.
Mitu Ramgopal
Wayzata '08

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Post by Captain Sinico » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:19 am

ecks wrote:Great job, although I'm wondering why Bloomington is ranked ahead of New Trier, given that New Trier won the state championship and Bloomington went 1-2...
Why would any three-game tournament have much weight in anyone's judgment of a team? That sample size just isn't big enough to matter, even on the face of it. Sure, it's "the" state championship, or whatever, but that doesn't give it any special advantage in predictive capability.
And, for what it's worth, I don't necessarily agree with the poll result with respect to New Trier, but "of these three games on a non-national format with non-unimpeachable questions, this team lost two of them" isn't a strong argument for much of anything.

MaS

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Post by jbarnes112358 » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:57 am

aestheteboy wrote:Half the voters were from the Mid-Atlantic area (including three from Gov and three from Zaga). This must be the explanation of the low rank of Santa Monica!
You are right. There is definitely some regional bias in this poll. It is true that 3 voters were from Maggie Walker. But, note that our lowest position of 3rd came from one of our players. We have seen a lot of teams this year. We have attended more than a dozen tournaments and played against teams from at least 11 different states. We have also been avid followers of this message board. So, I believed that as voters our players are as qualified as most. Maybe more people from other regions did not vote because they did not feel that they could adequately judge teams outside the area where they compete. That was the reason I did not vote, that plus the fact that I did not want to further contribute to the regional bias.

I don't know if we are the best team in the country or not. We have had a very successful year so far, winning some 10 tournaments, including one college tournament, while playing in a strong region. We have been out there and visible, so a lot of people are familiar with us. While we are an excellent team, we certainly are not invincible by any means. We have lost several games and had many close calls this year.

I believe that there are at least 6 or 8 teams out there that could win a national championship this year without surprising me very much. And I am not even factoring in the teams that might slip under my radar like a Lakeside of two years ago.

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Post by Wall of Ham » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:54 am

Number 8.

I tried to rank teams by how I thought they would do at NAQT nationals, just so I could have something to compare them to.


Just a thought... wouldn't it be cool if Minnesota/Michigan/Illinois developed into just as good a region with just as good teams as the mid-atlantic? It would be like the AFC-NFC, and the national champion could plausibly be either two teams that haven't faced off in the regular season?

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:14 am

As for talk of regional bias, I don't actually think there's a lot of that in these results. Based on results from tournaments this year, it's pretty clear Governor's is the best team. It's also clear that the top 5 will include Richard M. and State College. Based on tourney results. I would be really surprised if that area doesn't dominate the top of the brackets at nats. Which is why I want to go, just to see teams that good.

Althoguh I'm excited from hearing about Minnesota becoming a hotbed. I wish we could have that many tournaments in Missouri.
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Post by vcuEvan » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:54 am

The reason Santa Monica isn't higher is because while they were excellent when we played them at NAQT last year, they've graduated people and probably aren't quite is good.

The best way to solve regional bias is for people from other regions to vote. I really don't have very much information about other regions so most of us we're guessing based on limited stats.

I think mine was ballot 3 and if I could change it I would put RM in second, Dorman lower, and Whitman and DCC somewhere on the list at least.

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Post by First Chairman » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:27 pm

The way to overcome bias is to actually have team stats posted. Until there is consistent reporting of this information -- including areas that are traditionally underreported -- I will always have bias towards known quantities or teams that wish to play them.
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Post by ecks » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:45 pm

ImmaculateDeception wrote:And, for what it's worth, I don't necessarily agree with the poll result with respect to New Trier, but "of these three games on a non-national format with non-unimpeachable questions, this team lost two of them" isn't a strong argument for much of anything.
I wasn't basing my opinion just on the state series, although I seem to put more stock in it than most people on this board... but that's because I'm from Illinois. I won't claim to be a statistics master; my feelings were based partially on my own knowledge of the New Trier/Bloomington programs from people who are still playing in high school as well as my own impressions of them when I played them (although now I'm two years removed so that has little bearing on their current strengths).

My comment was more offhand (the product of about 20 seconds of thought) rather than a condemnation of the team placements and should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Post by gonzagaeagleahy » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:08 pm

i think that the overall poll is fairly accurate but that ballot 7 is fairly...not

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Post by cvdwightw » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:07 pm

The thing with Southern California teams is that unlike other regions, there aren't a lot of schools that you can really rank on reputation. Edison and Torrey Pines are the only schools with a proven track record of consistently nationally competitive teams (not necessarily contending for championships, but competitive) over the past 10+ years. Santa Monica's been the class of the region for the past couple, and Arcadia and a couple other schools may be getting to that "consistently nationally competitive" mark. However, the small field sizes and relative dearth of events probably contribute to a relatively low-quality region. That said, even though Santa Monica graduated its A team from last year, I saw what was then that school's B team last year and they were pretty good. If they put in the work to get better over the past year, they could be just as good as last year's team at nationals.

I did not vote in the poll because I have not been active enough on the tournaments/comparisons sections of the board to feel like I have a reasonable understanding of this year's high school crop.

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Post by Trevkeeper » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:00 pm

ecks wrote:Great job, although I'm wondering why Bloomington is ranked ahead of New Trier, given that New Trier won the state championship and Bloomington went 1-2...
Perhaps it's worth noting that we're 0-3 against Bloomington this year? All three tournaments were at NAQT or NAQT like events -- we lost in the finals at Northwestern NAQT and we lost to them twice at UIUC Earlybird. Granted, I don't remember any of them being blow outs, but it's not like they won on the last question or anything.

Another important thing to note with regards to the state tournament is that it's certainly different from NAQT in terms of distribution, mainly in regards to math. From what I know of Bloomington having seen them and gone to ACE with some of their players (Though, I haven't seen them play since October), their best subjects are Lit and SS, so I think they are likely better suited to NAQT format than Illinois. In short, I wasn't surprised by the results at all, and in fact would have disagreed if we were ranked higher than Bloomington.

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Post by fender_outta_hock » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:53 pm

I really want to thank whoever voted my team (EO Smith) on their ballot. (Ballot #1, i guess) It's only fairly recently that we've started to do really well (only our second nationals year) but we're very grateful for whoever thought that we were good enough to make it onto their list! It was a pleasant surprise to see us on there given that we're not an established QB power yet. So, to conclude, thank you!

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Post by dyetman89 » Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:44 pm

fender_outta_hock wrote:...given that we're not an established QB power yet.
At the risk of sounding like a linguistic pedant: if not a power, then surely a force. The ballot is not mine, but still, I wouldn't be at all surprised if E.O. Smith made it into the top 25; you guys came in second at LIFT, and played quite well against Gonzaga (385-270). Of course, that same ballot has Livingston beating State College, so your wagon may have been hitched to a somewhat eccentric star.

Godspeed.

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Post by Byko » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:56 am

I'll fess up: my ballot was #12.

The only information I have on Santa Monica this year was from one tournament at UC-Irvine in which the only games they didn't win by 150 points or more were a 275-225 win over Torrey Pines A (who I have at 19-4 on the year) and 380-240 over Arcadia A (who I have at 19-3 on the year). They put up big numbers in every game, and while there isn't enough data or data connection to really gauge the strength of California (please feel free to send me more data if you have it), it looks to me like Santa Monica is for real and that Arcadia and Edison definitely have a decent shot at playoffs at NAQT this year.

Now that I have some actual data on East Lansing, they would make my top 25 somewhere right now--not sure where, though. There are some other teams not on my ballot that I'd consider but just don't have enough (or any) data on, such as Shady Side, Brindlee Mountain (I have some overall results from your tournaments but not as much on who was in the field, exactly which teams you defeated, etc.), James Island, and pretty much any team in the state of Texas.

E.O. Smith is close to my top 25 right now--probably somewhere between #30 and #35 at this point with plenty of time to move up.

That's enough commentary from me for right now--feel free to fire questions at me if you want.
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Post by Chico the Rainmaker » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:03 pm

Byko wrote: (please feel free to send me more data if you have it)
Since I haven't seen any results from the SoCal "State" Championship at Caltech: http://www-scf.usc.edu/~quizbowl/TW-06/ ... l.html#t16
is the only other data I have on Santa Monica.
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Post by ntan » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:50 pm

Byko wrote:it looks to me like Santa Monica is for real and that Arcadia and Edison definitely have a decent shot at playoffs at NAQT this year.
i think another team from socal, Rancho Bernado has a shot at the playoffs too because this year they have been playing pretty well against most teams from the region. i think that most of their games against samo, defintely the best team in southern california by far, have been quite close. i dont remember the exact numbers, but i think the margin of vicotry for samo against rancho bernado is <100points. edison, although a good team seems to be a bit off form recently (our b team beat them by a considerable margin at uci's 2nd tournament-baby anteater the stats arent up yet i think).

at carnal embrace, which arcadia hosted, rancho bernado went defeated and their top scorer had something like 110 ppg. but that should be taken with a grain of salt because edison, torrey, and samo were not in attendance.

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Post by mhanna » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:03 pm

Thanks to Ballot #! for mentioning Aiken. Rarely have we had our first team together, but on most occasions, we played well. Yep, we also got smoked a few times. We have had some quality wins and some quality losses in several tournaments. We lost to James Island in the finals at USC and Indian Springs at LAMP, but managed wins over Raleigh Charter at Richmond Senior and E.O. Smith (a split) at MIT in the championship matches. All four teams, JI, RC, IS and EOS are worth of mention in anyone's top 25 poll. Dorman, Chattahoochee and Brookwood are top 10 calibre teams.

For us, we are just hoping to get to Chicago.

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Post by leapfrog314 » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:51 pm

Trevkeeper wrote:yadda yadda New Trier yadda Bloomington
This has no bearing on Bloomington vs New Trier, and I was simply pleased to see that we were on the top 25 at all, which I didn't necessarily expect.

However, I think it definitely bears mentioning that New Trier won Illinois's NAQT State Qualifier pretty convincingly (531 PPG, 183 PA in the playoffs) without its history specialist, who had 58 PPG at Northwestern NAQT, his first NAQT tournament.

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Post by ecks » Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:11 am

RandomScreenname wrote:
Byko wrote: (please feel free to send me more data if you have it)
Since I haven't seen any results from the SoCal "State" Championship at Caltech: http://www-scf.usc.edu/~quizbowl/TW-06/ ... l.html#t16
is the only other data I have on Santa Monica.
I like the balance on Santa Monica's team.
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Post by Lukey's Boat » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:45 pm

Brilliant, thanks for sharing the results of the poll. Even if there is some regional bias and what have you, it's nice to at least have a vague notion what people are thinking. Looking forward to May! :grin:

Cheers
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