William R. King Memorial Tournament (8/25/07) (Results)

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William R. King Memorial Tournament (8/25/07) (Results)

Post by geekjohnson »

The University of Alabama is proud to announce its first annual William Rufus King Memorial Tournament for high-schools. The tournament will be using NAQT questions. It shall take place on August 25th, 2007, in Tuscaloosa, AL, at the University of Alabama.

Please email me at [email protected] if your school is interested in attending. All of the details, in terms of driving directions and buildings, shall be sent out at a later time. Thank you, and we look forward to seeing all of Alabama's, and hopefully other state's, high-schools here at the Capstone.
Last edited by geekjohnson on Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by geekjohnson »

Letters of invitation are being mailed out today. They will go out to every high-school team in the state of Alabama, and also a few select programs in MS, GA, TN and KY. Hopefully we will have a good turnout here at UA in August!
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Post by Matthew D »

James put us down for 4 teams as of right now
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Post by geekjohnson »

Ok Matt, gotcha. Also, like I said, every team that attended ASCA this past year was sent a letter of invitation and instruction two days ago, so look for your letter in the mail soon!
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Post by geekjohnson »

Ok, just so everyone who we might not have sent letters to can see the information, here is the letter we sent out to a multitude of high-schools.

"Dear School,

The Alabama Academic Quizbowl Team is pleased to announce its first annual William Rufus King Memorial Tournament, to be held on Saturday, August 25th, 2007, at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa, AL.

The Alabama Academic Quizbowl Team was founded last year and is hosting its first-ever tournament with the William Rufus King Memorial. This tournament will serve as a launch pad for future AAQT high-school tournaments to be held, and will also provide an opportunity for interested students to visit the premier college in the state of Alabama. Also, the tournament presents an opportunity to raise awareness of a Quizbowl organization at the Capstone, which might interest students wishing to pursue scholars’ bowl on the collegiate level.

Not only will students be afforded the chance of visiting the beautiful campus at the University of Alabama, but they will also get to meet and greet students from other high-schools/junior high-schools; and more importantly, they will get to compete in an academic scholars’ bowl competition.
This tournament is designed for players in high-school (grades 9-12) but we would welcome middle and junior high-school players as well. Providing enough teams composed entirely of students in those respective divisions, we would offer separate divisional play, and awards exclusively for those students.
This tournament will feature questions provided by National Academic Quiz Tournaments (NAQT). Also, teams that finish in the top 15% of the total field automatically qualify for the NAQT High-School National Championship to be held in 2008.
Coach and player meetings for the William Rufus King Memorial Tournament shall be held in one of the newest buildings Alabama has to offer, Alston Hall. Match play shall be held in the equally modern Bidgood Hall. Registration begins at 8:30 a.m., with the player/coach meeting starting at 9:30, and match play starting at 10:00, with the tournament hopefully concluding at 5:00 p.m.

Interested schools should return a letter to us expressing their interest in attending, or email us at [email protected]. The entry fee for every team entered in the tournament is $70, and $60 for any subsequent teams entered from the same school.
Also, it is important to note that schools that attend are REQUIRED to bring at least ONE buzzer set with them, as we have very few buzzer systems in our possession. If you have a problem with bringing a buzzer set please contact us and we can try to make other arrangements.

We look forward to seeing all of you in August. May everyone have a safe and fun summer, and be ready to have some serious fun starting in the fall!


Sincerely,



James A. Johnson
Alabama Academic Quizbowl Team President

P.S.: Confirmations for tournament attendance (with amount of teams indicated) MUST be received by August 13th, 2007, with a discount of $10 per team entered if we receive your confirmation by July 16th, 2007. Again, if you have questions or concerns, please contact us and we will do our best to help you.[/b]

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Post by quizbowllee »

Brindlee Mountain will be there with at least 3, probably 4 teams.

-Lee
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Post by geekjohnson »

Ok guys, we have had contact with a few schools, and everything is starting to look good. Starting now and ending at the deadline of August 13th, I will be posting the schools, and number of teams they are bringing.

Scottsboro (4 teams)
Brindlee Mountain (3-4 teams)
Northview
JM Tate, FL (2 teams)
Tanner
Brookwood, GA (2 teams)
Pelham High (2 teams)
St. Paul's

Updated June 14th. Starting to build a nice field. Congrats to both Brindlee and Brookwood on their high finishes at NAQT Nats.!
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Post by geekjohnson »

field updated
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Post by geekjohnson »

We're about 20 days from the deadline for the discount, so if any of you on the boards here are thinking about coming, confirm soon for a discount. Although, I think we'll see a lot more team confirmations once school gets back in session in early August, because of budget issues.
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Post by geekjohnson »

Ok guys, we're 8 days away from the deadline for discounts, hurry up and confirm!
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Post by Matthew D »

James what is the update on the field?
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Post by geekjohnson »

I've been updating the field on the list above. It has the date on it.
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Post by geekjohnson »

Ok, here is the latest updates guys.

Scottsboro (4 teams)
Brindlee Mountain (3-4 teams)
Northview
JM Tate, FL (2 teams)
Tanner
Brookwood, GA (2 teams)
Pelham High (2 teams)
St. Paul's
Rickards High, FL
Northridge (1-2 teams)
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Post by quizbowllee »

I'm 99% sure we'll have 4 teams.

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Post by geekjohnson »

Roster update as of 08/17/07:

Scottsboro (3 teams)
Brindlee Mountain (4 teams)
JM Tate, FL
Tanner
Brookwood, GA
Pelham High (2 teams)
St. Paul's
Northridge
LAMP (2 teams)
Dorman, SC (2 teams)
Chattahoochee, GA
Lexington
Russellville (2 teams)
Hoover (2 teams)

Since school is now getting back in we are expecting to have a lot more confirmations, so watch the list!
Last edited by geekjohnson on Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by geekjohnson »

Field updated!
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Post by geekjohnson »

Ok, the field is now officially capped. The tournament is going to feature 24 teams. I will be sending out an email to all coaches on the format of the tournament soon.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Are the initial brackets going to be random, or will you try and separate some of the "powerhouse" teams to ensure the best possible playoff bracket?

Either way, some tough teams are going to be left out of the upper-division playoff bracket.



My prediction for top 8 (in no order):

Dorman A
Dorman B
Brookwood
Brindlee Mountain A
Brindlee Mountain B
Chattahoochie
Hoover A
LAMP A
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Post by geekjohnson »

We are going to separate the 3 brackets so there are an appropriate amount of power teams in each.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

I am eagerly awaiting not eating a hat.
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Post by geekjohnson »

We'll have stats up tomorrow, but here are quick results.

1st Place: Dorman A, 11-0, 479 ppg, 79 powers
2nd Place: Brindlee Mountain A, 9-2
3rd Place: Chattahoochee, 9-2
4th Place: Dorman B, 8-3
5th Place: Brookwood, 8-3

Quick Individual Stat

Andy Knowles was the MVP of the tournament. More to come. No hat eating for you Charlie!
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Post by Matthew D »

Big thanks to James and the crew at Alabama for a good tournament. We did get our money's worth in playing time.
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Post by AKKOLADE »

I will take this opportunity to remind everyone that the Edit function is not a "Get out of saying dumbass things for free" card. If you don't want a rant about how someone's prediction for an event was stupid to be posted, don't post it in the first place.

This is the one warning for the board.
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Post by quizbowllee »

There were some good and bad things about this tournament.

The Good:

Questions - While easy, at least they were pyramidal and not the usual Alabama junk.

Level of Competition - I can't believe we got to play Dorman, Chattahoochie, and Brookwood in our own state!

The Bad:

Tournament took WAAAY too long. That's a pretty incredible thing coming from me... I've never been to a tournament where I didn't want to play more until yesterday. We were all very ready to leave.

JV Playoffs - We were told that the JV champion would be the team with the best record in the JV playoff bracket. My two JV teams came out undefeated (except when they played each other) in that bracket. They were thrilled thinking that they had taken 1st and 2nd. But, they decided to count the prelim rounds and gave Scottsboro A the championship. Had this been any team other than Scottsboro, I would have caused a big stink. I have no problem with them doing this, but they should have made it explicitly clear. Everyone - including Scottsboro - thought we had won the JV division. I don't mean to take away from Scottsboro's victory, I just mean to say that the JV situation should have been explained better.

The moderators were a mixed bag. Some were great. Others, though, wanted to have long-winded conversations and commentary after every single question. This made rounds drag on and on. I actually had to tell one moderator at least half a dozen times in one round that it was already after 6:00 pm and I wanted to go home, so please just read the round and quit making comments. I've never had to do that before... I'm not a fan of timed matches, but it would've helped tremendously yesterday.


Despite the bad, I'd say this was a good tournament, especially seeing as it was UA's first time hosting. Hopefully they will iron out some of the problems before next time. It was still one of the best tournaments we've ever attended in this state.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

DID JONATHAN THOMSON RUN INTO A LOT OF STUDENTS?!?!?!?!?
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Post by jrbarry »

I thought the bammer people did a great job of running their tournament. My team had nothing but good readers.

Lee is right: it ran waaaaay too long. We did not get back home to ATL until after midnight, EDT. I think they should have started earlier, maybe like this: check-in 8-8:45 and start play by 9:15am.

I am also NOT a fan of round robins in playoffs. I prefer single elimination playoffs. Most of us play in so many tournaments, the number of rounds in any one tournament is not super-important anymore.

I am becomming disenchanted with NAQT question sets. Too many silly trivia questions are ruining the sets. And that A set was just too easy for that field. And, as usual, too much mythology and too little classic lit.
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Post by Matthew D »

I have to agree with both Lee and Rick on it being way to long, we got back to Scottsboro around 11 last night
The JV situation was a bit of confusion to say the least but I can kinda understand carrying over the record due to the fact that they didn't have a separate JV division during round robin play.
Readers were okay for the most in my opinion, I had a couple of rooms where I had a hard time hearing the moderators
I like the idea of starting earlier and having all the teams being on time would have helped a bit, I think.
I am just glad we got to play this early in the season with some great teams and I hope that my tournament will go well in 2 weeks.

Hey Charlie, could you just layoff JT on this thread for a bit..
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

No.
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Post by QuizBowlRonin »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:No.
Yes, you will.
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Post by quizbowllee »

jrbarry wrote: I am also NOT a fan of round robins in playoffs. I prefer single elimination playoffs. Most of us play in so many tournaments, the number of rounds in any one tournament is not super-important anymore.
I disagree. I hate single-elimination. I don't think that a single bad round in the playoffs should eliminate a team from contention. I think the best way to find the best team is to make sure that the top teams all play one another. However, in order to do this, a tournament director needs to budget in a reasonable amount of time.

I once ran a full-round robin with 16 teams (15 rounds of pyramidal quiz bowl) and was still done way earlier than we were last night... It can be done.
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Post by Matthew D »

I do remember that Lee. I think that it is a function of the moderators you have and the time that you start
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Post by quizbowllee »

Matthew D wrote:I do remember that Lee. I think that it is a function of the moderators you have and the time that you start
I run a tight ship on moderators. As you know, I have a few regulars who are on the slow side. However, if they are ever more than 10 minutes behind everyone else, I tell them to speed up. I've also been known to jump in and replace them for a round or two to get their rooms caught up.
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Post by vandyhawk »

quizbowllee wrote:
jrbarry wrote: I am also NOT a fan of round robins in playoffs. I prefer single elimination playoffs. Most of us play in so many tournaments, the number of rounds in any one tournament is not super-important anymore.
I disagree. I hate single-elimination. I don't think that a single bad round in the playoffs should eliminate a team from contention. I think the best way to find the best team is to make sure that the top teams all play one another. However, in order to do this, a tournament director needs to budget in a reasonable amount of time.
Perhaps this isn't the best place for this discussion, but I've always agreed with Lee, while following Mr. Barry's lead. When we did a round robin playoff instead of single elimination at ABC a few years ago, it wasn't terribly well received. People in the southeast as a whole seem to prefer single elimination, so that's what we use, even though my own preference is for round robin (or some variation thereof).
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Post by First Chairman »

James,
Could you fill out the form that I put up as a sticky to this section? Thanks!
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Post by quizbowllee »

Stats?
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Post by quizbowllee »

While we're waiting on stats, I'll make some commentary about the teams.

Dorman = good.

The whole "Charlie eating a hat" thing aside, I fully expected us to lose to Dorman. I was hoping to at least give them a run for the money, but they really pounded us. The score was 500-180 that round. Being an "A" set, there were a lot of buzzer races. Dorman seemed to win about 90% of these. Also, they powered some questions on things my team just didn't know. We'll work harder and hopefully close the gap before the end of the year.

Dorman B was a close, close match for us. We were up by 20 or so going into the final question, which we got. They are also really good and put the hurt on a lot of teams.

Our only other loss came from Brookwood in the prelims. We just played poorly that round and Brookwood didn't. There's really no other excuse for that one.

Chattahoochee was our last match, and we actually beat them pretty handily. I know after number 15 that we had the game locked unless we negged. So, the team didn't attempt an early buzz on that one. Chattahoochee got it and 30 on the bonus. Since they didn't power it, they couldn't catch us, so the team picked back up and answered a few more before the end.

As for Alabama teams, the only one that Brindlee Mountain B lost to was Brindlee Mountain A. I think the "A" team relished crushing the "B" team, especially after the fiasco at Nationals this past year... I think that Hoover is going to be a good team this year. Other than our losses, Hoover B gave the "A" team their closest match and Hoover A gave the B team their closest in the prelims.

At any rate, like I said before:

Dorman = good.
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Post by jrbarry »

Lee:

I understand your position about round robin playoffs. I cannot argue with your logic. But, when you lose to Dorman-A in plaYOFF round one 340-360 and Chattahoochee in round two 345-410, it is OVER for you and you still have two games left to play. THAT is unacceptable to me in any case. My players wanted to leave after going 0-2 when we were eliminated, but I insisted we stay. I realize now I should have let them leave.

Maybe a double elimination playoff in a small tournament, but not any type of round robin. I like playoffs that build to a climax. Just about every activity I like operates that way.

We used to have a great tournament in Atlanta (Northside HS then North Atlanta HS) in the late 1980s and 1990s that was a 16-team round robin with only the strong teams in the SE invited. It was a Friday-Saturday affair, though. I could live with that scenario maybe once a year.
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Post by QuizBowlRonin »

Lee, what is the situation with your A & B teams anyways? I was under the impression that you split your A team at the last ICT - was I incorrect in that assumption?

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Post by quizbowllee »

QuizBowlRonin wrote:Lee, what is the situation with your A & B teams anyways? I was under the impression that you split your A team at the last ICT - was I incorrect in that assumption?

Best -
Not really... I had a different line-up based on how things had been going in practice during the weeks leading up to the HSNCT. I put the "A" team together that I thought had the best chance. However, some of the players didn't bring anywhere near the numbers they had been bringing in practice. Also, some of the B team players performed much better than they had in practice.

Coaching was a lot simpler when I only had 4 good players...
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Post by quizbowllee »

Any idea when stats will be available?
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Post by kactigger »

Being an "A" set, there were a lot of buzzer races. Dorman seemed to win about 90% of these.
Why were there so many buzzer races? Was it a matter of not strictly pyramidal questions, or of pyramidal questions not being answered until a clue both teams knew (as a random example, a pyramidal Adam Smith question that no one knew until the Wealth of Nations was mentioned)?
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Post by quizbowllee »

I can't talk about specifics because it's an NAQT set that will be used again this year. Suffice it to say that some of the lead-ins contained information that would be considered a "give away" to most decent players.

For example, a question on C.S. Lewis might mention The Screwtape Letters early and Narnia later. Obviously any decent player would buzz on Screwtape.
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Post by STPickrell »

quizbowllee wrote:I can't talk about specifics because it's an NAQT set that will be used again this year. Suffice it to say that some of the lead-ins contained information that would be considered a "give away" to most decent players.

For example, a question on C.S. Lewis might mention The Screwtape Letters early and Narnia later. Obviously any decent player would buzz on Screwtape.
Screwtape is still harder than Narnia -- I would hope to see at least something like The Four Loves or Till We Have Faces early on, though.

I'm not sure whether you mean 'decent' as in 'will go over .500 at an Alabama tournament' or 'can make noise at Nationals.'

Brindlee and Dorman are among the top 50 teams in the country by most measures. They are going to be getting most of these leadins, especially on an "A" series packet. Consider them 'anthills,' they are shaped like pyramids.

IMO, clues can fall into four levels:
(1) Challenging to even the best teams - this is where I'd put in something about C.S. Lewis and that older woman he may, or may not, have had sex with. Either that, or a fairly obscure work such as A Grief Observed
(2) Mid-level - The Four Loves or Till We Have Faces qualify for that, probably the Silent Planet series.
(3) Low-tier - I'd put The Screwtape Letters and Mere Christianity here. This is where most of your regional powers that get killed at a state level would get these questions.
(4) Giveaway - Aslan and Narnia of course.
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Post by geekjohnson »

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Post by geekjohnson »

k guys, sorry it took so long to get the results up, but school started back full force this week for UA and it has been hectic.

The tournament featured 3 8-team preliminary brackets: Napoleon, Caesar, and Genghis. From there the tournament ran almost identical to the ICT, with the top 2 from each bracket advancing to the top bracket, Alexander, and the 3 and 4 teams to another and so forth. The only exception to this was the JV teams, which were put into their own bracket, providing none of them qualified for the Alexander bracket. The only big fudge we made, I believe, was in regards to not announcing that the records from the preliminary rounds carried over into the new brackets. We should have made that clear, although I honestly have never been to a tournament where records were discarded in any sense, but we will do our best in making sure that does not happen again.

Aside from the problem with there being not enough pizza, which we corrected, the AAQT is very satisfied with the way our first tournament went. Especially considering we had so many readers drop the days before, but I suppose that is common place in quizbowl. Some readers were reading for the first time, so we had no great expectations for them. We were pleasantly suprised that we had no problems with our new readers, aside from maybe reading speed and clarity, which will increase with the more rounds read.

It was a long day for the teams, as well as our staff, as we were up for nearly 24 hours straight. Next time we will be better prepared to run on a more time efficient schedule and finish at an earlier time. Also, Mr. Barry, I understand where you are coming from in regards to the format, but I honestly favor the one we used as it seems to be the best indicator in relation to the best team, also, as Lee said, one bad round can happen to any team, and to allow that to ruin a team's day is not fair in my opinion, also, with the level of competition it seemed a shame to not allow everyone the opportunity to play one another.

There may be errors in the stats and we apologize, but 99% of them are correct. Goodnight, and congratulations to to Dorman A for winning the William Rufus King Memorial, and also to Scottsboro A for winning the JV division, plus a healthy hand clap to the rest of the field.

edit: grammar
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Post by wd4gdz »

geekjohnson wrote: It was a long day for the teams, as well as our staff, as we were up for nearly 24 hours straight.
Why?
geekjohnson
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Post by geekjohnson »

Oh, we waited to too long to try and finish up some things, and were kinda unsure about how things would go and what exactly needed to be done, so we all got very little, if any sleep the night before.
The Atom Strikes!
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Post by The Atom Strikes! »

quizbowllee wrote:While we're waiting on stats, I'll make some commentary about the teams.

Dorman = good.

The whole "Charlie eating a hat" thing aside, I fully expected us to lose to Dorman. I was hoping to at least give them a run for the money, but they really pounded us. The score was 500-180 that round. Being an "A" set, there were a lot of buzzer races. Dorman seemed to win about 90% of these.
From the comments that Huff made while moderating practice rounds at ACE, he seems to put a lot of value into being good at buzzer speed (as this is critical for quizbowl), and this probably translates into the way that he coaches his team.
Henry Gorman, Wilmington Charter '09, Rice '13, PhD History Vanderbilt '1X
Nick
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great tourney

Post by Nick »

The tournament did end a bit later than most tournaments do, but I suppose that’s excusable since it was their first. Actually, being that it was the first tournament they have hosted, we were super impressed with the moderators we had and the fairly quick transition between rounds. I suppose another factor to the lateness was the playoff pool as opposed to single/double elimination. I personally preferred the playoff pool as we were able to play some of the best teams in the Southeast in the same tournament. Chattahoochee and Brookwood are definitely great teams, with the possibility of doing really really well at nationals. It was very much worth getting back to Roebuck, SC at 3 o’clock in the morning! Although I can understand wanting that feeling of anticipation and excitement which leads up to that one make-or-break championship match.

The questions were NAQT so they were, of course, good quality with some slight subject area/difficulty distribution oddities. Obviously, because they were an A-set, the answer selections across the board were somewhat easier, but the questions themselves were well-written and pyramidal, and a legitimate test of knowledge.

Again, hats off to the U. of Alabama for an excellent tournament.
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