NY/NJ 2007-08

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NY/NJ 2007-08

Post by Sir Thopas » Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:48 pm

The region does seem to be livening up a bit, or at least migrating from :chip: questions, so what do you guys think will happen next year?

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NY/NJ 2007/2008

Post by SHP Pirate » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:18 pm

I imagine that STUY will be strong once again. I stand by my earlier post that Kellenberg will be strong next year as well. Columbia (NJ) will only get stronger as their best scorer was a sophomore. SHP will be back returning the entire team from this year. Pingry will find a way (they always do!). Then there are the other usual suspects: Hunter, Bergen County, High Tech (NJ). I think that NY/NJ is due for a big year next fall.

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Post by Gonzagapuma1 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:37 pm

I think that Livingston will be weaker next year now that Meryl is graduating.

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Re: NY/NJ 2007/2008

Post by dyetman89 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:31 pm

SHP Pirate wrote:I imagine that STUY will be strong once again.
I'd like to think so, but after a disappointing finish in Chicago...well, let's just say I'm inclined to wait until after PACE before making any sweeping prognostications about my own squad. Hopefully we'll do well enough next year.

I know Hunter will be excellent. Guy has an extremely impressive base of knowledge and seems to continually improve. They are, however, essentially a one man team (I mean no disrespect to Guy's teammates, but this is an observable fact - he consistently takes 85-90% of the tossups), and this could pose problems of its own. But the whole squad is usually quite calm and consistent, and if Guy's teammates improve to the point where they can put up some real points while playing with him, they could be terrifying.

I second Puma: Livingston will take a huge hit. We've only played against them once (at Princeton), but when we did, it seemed that Meryl not only got all the tossups, but had virtually no support period. I'm not suggesting this was necessarily the case in every game, what with the vagaries of the so- called NAQT "distribution", but the 2007 HSNCT stats seem to back it up. Unless those Livingston players pull incredible new talent out of the blue and do some serious work, I don't see much of anything happening.

I think Kellenberg, Columbia, Pungry, and the rest of the "usual suspects" will do quite well, but I do wish High Tech could be encouraged to ditch
:chip: and come to more pyramidal, 20tu/20bn events. They knocked off Stuy at Harvard's fall tournament, and while we were extremely undermanned that day, it was still clear that they were a genuinely powerful team.
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Post by ieppler » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:10 pm

After NAQT, I thought that Hunter would be the top team in New York. Guy is obviously an incredible player, and it seems that he is beginning to put together a supporting cast. (A 7th grade math player?!) However, with Douglas returning as a super-senior, Stuy will definately contend at a national level again next year, and will probably be better than Hunter due to experience alone. I haven't played any other New York area teams, so I can't speak on teams such as Pingry, Livingston, or Kellenberg.

Will either of the Manhattan teams be hosting a tournament next year?
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Post by Sir Thopas » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:48 pm

Hopper wrote:Will either of the Manhattan teams be hosting a tournament next year?
We plan on doing so. NAQT, although I'm aiming to house-write one come senior year.

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Post by Kyle » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:49 pm

High Tech was excellent at our tournament. I didn't know until reading Douglas's post that they didn't play on pyramidal tossups very much; they were quick and seemed to know immediately what they were doing. They were second highest (to Stuyvesant) in ppg, but third in record (to Kellenberg, which was fifth in ppg). Odd results. High Tech could win a lot if they played more often.

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Re: NY/NJ 2007/2008

Post by Byko » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:43 am

dyetman89 wrote:I think Kellenberg, Columbia, Pungry, and the rest of the "usual suspects" will do quite well, but I do wish High Tech could be encouraged to ditch :chip: and come to more pyramidal, 20tu/20bn events.
So what can we do to help make sure that there are more of these types of events of higher quality quiz bowl in the New Jersey and New York (and sure, eastern Pennsylvania too) areas?

Considering some of the question writing contracts we (Academic Initiative) have accepted for next season, we'll already be putting together a PACE-formatted set that we'd love to have get used somewhere in this region. I feel confident we could put together a second set (in whatever format would be desired) for another tournament in the region as well. Just let me know--I really want to help.
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Post by Jackson_Raj » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:49 pm

From what I heard and saw at :chip: 's tournament at DC, South Brunswick was pretty good. Is their team primarily made of seniors or underclassmen?

Are there many tournaments in NJ? I'll be going to a prep school in NJ this coming year, so I was just curious.

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Post by The Logic of Scientific Disco » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:42 pm

From what I recall from my days at Bergen Academy, there are a pretty good number of tournaments in NJ--1 at Princeton, 2 at Rutgers, 1 at Columbia HS, and LIFT on Long Island as far as NAQT goes--as well as a smattering of bizarre non-pyramidal ones (do they still play that Jeopardy-board style thing at Seton Hall and Columbia?). So yes, the NJ circuit is pretty active, if perhaps a little flawed. I keep hoping my former teammates at BCA will host an NAQT tournament, but that seems unlikely...

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Post by Byko » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:18 am

Jackson_Raj wrote:From what I heard and saw at :chip: 's tournament at DC, South Brunswick was pretty good. Is their team primarily made of seniors or underclassmen?

Are there many tournaments in NJ? I'll be going to a prep school in NJ this coming year, so I was just curious.
From what I've heard, there's a reasonable number. Some of them are in NAQT format, and others are in the odd Jeopardy-style game format that Chip provides questions for and that I've heard a couple people tell me about (though I have yet to see for myself). Mike Zinsmeister at Seton Hall would be a better person to speak on New Jersey than I would, but I'm trying to learn what's up there since it's not that far away from Maryland.

As for South Brunswick, I have no clue. Apparently, the bigger circuit teams in NJ (e.g., Seton Hall, Columbia, Livingston, Pingry) didn't really come across South Brunswick at all this year. After all, South Brunswick qualified by winning BRITE (http://www.b-rea.org/brite.htm for info), which appears to be in that odd Jeopardy format. So hopefully they'll pop up more next year, but you never know.
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Post by ChathamNJ » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:00 pm

I've only been coaching for two years, but in my experience, the Jeopardy-style game is the norm and attracts the most teams. BRITE is probably the biggest, there are also tournaments hosted by Millburn, Phillipsburg, Livingston, Bloomfield, South Plainfield, High Tech that use this format for at least the prelim rounds. Now the hardcore quizbowlers on this board will probably cringe due to the inherent randomness of who gets what question, but for the vast majority of schools (my own included) that approach this activity as "smart kids celebrating the fact that they enjoy knowing stuff" it's a great format. No buzzers are required. No neutral moderators are required - just have the coaches read in the rooms. All students get to play on at least half the questions (they bounce back) and can contribute to the team effort. I have some students who love buzzers and hate Jeopardy-style; I have some who feel the opposite way and I enjoy having something for everyone.

Most of the above tournaments do not use Chip questions. I know that Millburn does, I believe that Colonia does (for a 4-qtr NAC format), but I think the others are house-written and BRITE uses the Great Auk company.

What can be done to attract more teams to NAQT and PACE formats? Publicity will help. When I started as coach, I got forwarded emails from several event organizers who had sent messages to my predecessors. Now my school had traditionally attended BRITE and one-two Saturday tournaments a year - we were by no means regulars on the circuit, but I received at least ten invitations. I also received several snail mails sent to the school address, "ATTN: Academic Team". Cold calls, if you will. On the other hand, I never received an invite to Rutgers, Princeton, or other in-state NAQT events. (I did get an invite to Half Hollow Hills and Long Island, but as a newbie I immediately dismissed them as too far.) I stumbled upon naqt.com's schedule and had to search out Rutgers and Princeton, eventually getting responses. If they're happy with the fields they're getting, and I know that finding staff and rooms must be difficult, then there's no need to advertise - which is fine for them but not good for growth.

One thing I do like is the variety of formats. Different students have chances to excel in different ways, and it seems to me that full success is a by-product of being smart and knowing lots of stuff rather than just studying old questions and learning "the canon". Now I have no doubt that the top top teams all do their share of quizbowl-oriented studying and there's nothing wrong with that, but I enjoy the fact that your average smart kid who knows stuff has a good outlet that doesn't necessarily require dedication and priority over other activities that can be hobbies for life.

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Post by dyetman89 » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:48 pm

Not sure if everyone here reads the Tournament Discussion forum, so I'm posting this here as well.

Would anyone be interested in coming to a high school tournament at Stuyvesant on 9/29?

The questions would be house-written, 20/20 format, approximately ACF Fall 2006 length and difficulty. I ask, because securing the appropriate space and security personnel for a weekend tourney is quite a chore with our administration, and I would hate to jump through the hoops only to find that no one wants to show up. So how 'bout it?
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Post by TheCzarMan » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:06 pm

From what I remember last year, some of the Pub schools are catching up the high number of Parochial and Private schools that dominate the area. Governor Livingston runs Jeopardy style tournament, a lot of us go out to Half Hollow for their tournament.

Seton Hall Prep should be strong as always, good lower teams. Pingry I think will drop off a bit, most of their A team is gone and I was not impressed with the B team. Bergen Academies should be good, but honestly I think they're a bit overrated on this board. No info on NY teams really. I'd say expect Pingry, Prep, and Bergen to once again dominate the Jersey region.

Of course, my Bloomfield team plans to make a big move. Despite being one of, if not the best Public team over the past several years, we missed NAQT last year and now we're looking to get back into it.

EDIT: And I didn't get to see Millburn last year, only play in their tournament which is a Jeopardy one too. Not too much NAQT tourney's in the area. Their A team seemed to make a good showing at Half Hollow.

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Post by segregold » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:19 pm

There was some girl at ACE MSM, Lauren Feldman, who was pretty good. I think she lives in Long Island. Whatever team gets her should improve fairly dramatically, although who the hell knows where that will put them.

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Post by SHP Pirate » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:55 pm

Next year, Columbia should be one of the better teams in the state. With the loss of Meryl (Jeopardy champ) I am not sure about the status of Livingston. Pingry always manages to field a good team - as does Bergen County. High tech is always dangerous but tends to be "streaky". It will be interesting to see how the season progresses.

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Post by TheCzarMan » Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:13 pm

I highly doubt Livingston comes anywhere near what they did last year. That team was basically Meryl with some support from the rest of her teammates, with her and most of the others gone, I don't think B team will come close.

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Post by The Infanta » Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:11 pm

With two of our A-team seniors gone, our '07-'08 team will be James, Nik (both of whom you might have heard about at the MSM ACE camp), Kevin, and myself (captain). We hope to do well.
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Post by nurik » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:38 pm

i would imagine stuy will be good . seton hall is usually a team to watch out for

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Post by DumbJaques » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:46 pm

i would imagine that mlk, maggie walker, tj and stuy will be good, i was hoping gonzaga would be as good as last year but after sept15 mid atlantic opener im not so sure ,they ranked below even us
Despite the fact that this is a New York thread and only one of those teams is from New York, the mid-atlantic opener has absolutely nothing to do with how a team performs on pyramidal questions. Also, if you're the current Kellnberg freshman who made the "I hear the top scorer at some tournament was an eighth grader" post last year, you've now broken rules on staying on topic, using basic grammar and punctuation, and not making posts with the sole purpose of stating how awesome you are. If not, I still don't think that a team's performances on the It's Academic format should have any bearing on how we evaluate them for the year, but I'm open to your justification.

EDIT: You broke the rule about not editing posts for context after they've been quoted, too! Come on dude.
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Post by nurik » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:06 pm

does bronx science have a team and if so are they any good?

sorry about that editing thing i didnt realize that you had already quoted , i just wanted to fix that mistake
yeah i realize building up my own ego was not the greatest thing to do

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Post by Sir Thopas » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:20 pm

nurik wrote:does bronx science have a team and if so are they any good?
No.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:49 pm

nurik, for future reference, its not considered good form to significantly edit a post in a way that changes its meaning after youve already posted it.
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Post by AKKOLADE » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:36 pm

nurik wrote:i would imagine stuy will be good . seton hall is usually a team to watch out for
Welcome to the board! Enjoy a three-day vacation for all your hard work.
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Post by The Atom Strikes! » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:25 pm

I agree with Chris Ray's point about judging teams based on the It's Ac. Format. Also, nurik, you should probably have some sort of indicator identifying who or where you are.
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Post by Sir Thopas » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:28 pm

SwissBoy wrote:I agree with Chris Ray's point about judging teams based on the It's Ac. Format. Also, nurik, you should probably have some sort of indicator identifying who or where you are.
He's the then-8th grader from Kellenberg he "asked" about back in April or May or whatever.
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Post by Fucitol » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:23 pm

This "may" be off topic, but seeing as we have all gone out on a limb bashing nurik which should get you all tempbanned like him, I want to know what is so wrong about editing posts.
Bashing someone about their behavior is just as bad as what he did, so don't go around all righteous saying how pompous he was.
If not, I still don't think that a team's performances on the It's Academic format should have any bearing on how we evaluate them for the year
He wasn't trying to judge them, but rather make a prediction based on their standings in a tournament.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:25 pm

Come on people, this is getting ridiculous.
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Post by Stat Boy » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:32 pm

Now the page is all stretchy and I have to scroll from side to side. No more long numbers, please.
EDIT: It's better now. Thanks.
Last edited by Stat Boy on Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Fucitol » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:33 pm

I hope Stat boy is happy.

EDIT: In the profile screen, it seemed like it had an auto line break, sorry.
Last edited by Fucitol on Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by The Atom Strikes! » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:39 pm

Glacierguy1 wrote:This "may" be off topic, but seeing as we have all gone out on a limb bashing nurik which should get you all tempbanned like him, I want to know what is so wrong about editing posts.
Bashing someone about their behavior is just as bad as what he did, so don't go around all righteous saying how pompous he was.
There's a difference between bashing somebody and legitimately criticizing their conduct and rule violations on the forum.
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Post by Fucitol » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:41 pm

Let me rephrase my question...

"What is wrong with editing posts?"
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Post by DumbJaques » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:46 pm

This "may" be off topic, but seeing as we have all gone out on a limb bashing nurik which should get you all tempbanned like him, I want to know what is so wrong about editing posts.
Bashing someone about their behavior is just as bad as what he did, so don't go around all righteous saying how pompous he was.
Nobody bashed Nurik. In fact, Charlie Dees made what quite possibly is his politest post ever simply indicating that it's considered bad form (not to mention against board rules) to edit your posts for content, particularly after they've been quoted. He prefaced that statement with "for future reference." "Bashing" is a laughable description of his (and Guy's) posts.

I take it it's my post you've got a problem with. Here's the deal, dude: We have a rules thread. If you post on this board, it's your responsibility to read it and abide by it. This is something that he (and you, obviously) had failed to do. Several of his actions merited a tempban and it sounds like he understands he shouldn't have done it, which is one of the reasons we enforce these punishments. It should be obvious what's wrong with editing posts for major content ("if you post something on this board, just like in real life, you can't just erase it" and "it makes it impossible for people to follow reactions to your post" are some good reasons). That wasn't all he did, there was also the "did you hear about [me], awesome eighth grader who leads in stats?" thing. Nothing anyone else said breaks the rules and, thus, obviously isn't "bashing" or deserving of reprimand. The same cannot be said of your post. The only one who's being self-righteous here is you.
He wasn't trying to judge them, but rather make a prediction based on their standings in a tournament.
Nobody said otherwise, but we made a legit criticism of that prediction's validity. He understood it, but I guess you're having some trouble.

Guess what, dude? One of the reasons we have the rules we have is so that we can have some kind of reasoned debate that follows the general rules of rhetoric in the comparisons forum. You need to support your arguments, not change your posts after they've been responded to, etc. You also need to not behave like a gigantic ass. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you're one of Nurik's teammates, in which case it's also considered poor form to make inflammatory, nonsensical posts "in defense" of your teammate when he did something legitimately wrong.
Quote:
Kellnberg


Enough said.
Never mind, forgetting that E makes my entire argument moot. Carry on!

EDIT:

In case you didn't realize from my post, editing posts to substantially change their meeting makes an online forum discussion impossible. Adding "EDIT:" and making this kind of comment at the end doesn't do that, so there's nothing wrong with that. That isn't what Nurik did.
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Post by Sir Thopas » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:55 pm

DumbJaques wrote:
This "may" be off topic, but seeing as we have all gone out on a limb bashing nurik which should get you all tempbanned like him, I want to know what is so wrong about editing posts.
Bashing someone about their behavior is just as bad as what he did, so don't go around all righteous saying how pompous he was.
Nobody bashed Nurik. In fact, Charlie Dees made what quite possibly is his politest post ever simply indicating that it's considered bad form (not to mention against board rules) to edit your posts for content, particularly after they've been quoted. He prefaced that statement with "for future reference." "Bashing" is a laughable description of his (and Guy's) posts.
It is conceivable he's referring to the Packet Distro thread, but given no indication that this is so, I doubt it. Even then, calling it "bashing" is excessive.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you're one of Nurik's teammates, in which case it's also considered poor form to make inflammatory, nonsensical posts "in defense" of your teammate when he did something legitimately wrong.
The website linked in his profile confirms this.
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Post by Fucitol » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:03 pm

I would like to apologize to everyone for my posts :oops: . I was not thinking straight because he is my friend and I wanted to defend him.
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Post by The Infanta » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:15 pm

I, too, would like to apologize for my teammates' unruly board behavior. It appears as though they need to read the rules again a bit more thoroughly.
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Post by aestheteboy » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:43 pm

DumbJaques wrote:the mid-atlantic opener has absolutely nothing to do with how a team performs on pyramidal questions.
Well, I wouldn't say speed tournaments are completely irrelevant. I sort of see it like "all good pyramidal teams are good at speed tournaments, but not all good speed teams are good at pyramidal tournaments." Seton Hall and Kellenberg certainly proved that they could be good.
With that said, the prelim ranking (and therefore the final ranking, to some extent) is not very relevant because some teams had a much tougher schedule than others.
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Post by BuzzerZen » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:19 pm

aestheteboy wrote:all good pyramidal teams are good at speed tournaments
Remember last year when we lost to Quince Orchard early in the playoffs at the Blake tournament?
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:36 pm

Yeah, I can agree with that. NKC is kinda sucky at speed tournaments in Missouri, and we tend to lose or almost lose to teams at local tournaments that we are much better than at pyramidal tournaments (see: Savannah or Liberty or all of the teams we played at state).
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Post by STPickrell » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:56 am

Also remember there is 'good speed' and 'bad speed'

Good speed is simple stuff like 'Who wrote Paradise Lost?' or 'What author of Areopagitica also wrote Paradise Lost?'

Bad speed is 'Alexander Pope wrote a mock epic, Rape of the Lock, but who wrote the real epic, Paradise Lost?'

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BuzzerZen
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Post by BuzzerZen » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:10 am

"Good speed" being, as always, a relative term.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:09 pm

I'm talking about all speed, "good" or bad.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
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"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

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Post by The Atom Strikes! » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:10 pm

Back onto the actual topic, due to both past results and common participation in pyramidal tournaments, I would be inclined that the 4 best teams that we'll see from NY are Stuyvesant, Hunter, Kellenberg, and Seton Hall, though there may be a few suprises in the wings.
Henry Gorman, Wilmington Charter '09, Rice '13, PhD History Vanderbilt '1X

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:18 pm

Isn't Seton Hall actually New Jersey? Not that it makes a huge difference or anything.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
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Post by The Atom Strikes! » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:20 pm

Deesy Does It wrote:Isn't Seton Hall actually New Jersey? Not that it makes a huge difference or anything.
I checked it out, and you're right. It is NJ. Still, it is in that region.
Henry Gorman, Wilmington Charter '09, Rice '13, PhD History Vanderbilt '1X

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Post by TheCzarMan » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:19 pm

*Hopes Bloomfield turns out to be suprise* :grin:

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Post by SHP Pirate » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:38 am

With some of the NY/NJ teams (only 18) meeting for the first time this season, it looks as though it will be a competitive year. Bergen County, at 9-1, won the tournament. They posted a 4-1 record in the prelims, losing only to Kellenberg, then went 5-0 in the playoff round robin to win the tournament. Seton Hall Prep, also at 9-1 on the day, lost only to Bergen County in the playoff round robin. Kellenberg posted a 5-0 in the prelims, then lost to both Bergen County and Seton Hall Prep in the playoffs for a third place finish.

I was very impressed both by Bergen and Kellenberg. Bergen was extremely quick, but was essentially a two-man team. Kellenberg was equally quick, but very balanced. I still think that, all things considered, Kellenberg will be one of the best teams to come out the NY/NJ region this year. (Of course, I am sure that both Stuy. and Hunter will be impressive as well ... I just have not yet had the opportunity to see them!)

By the way ... where were the other usual New Jersey suspects? Bloomfield? Columbia? Pingry? I was hoping to see how these teams looked this season.

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Post by Sir Thopas » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:48 am

For anyone curious, Stuy finished in second at TJ yesterday behind Richard Montgomery A, and Hunter lost the third-place match (badly) to Charter A.

We'll both be at Princeton and LIFT, although we'll be a bit depleted at both (the former with 2 of our A-team in the prelims and 3 in the playoffs; the latter, 2 in the prelims and the full squad near playoff time).
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Post by TheCzarMan » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:49 pm

Bloomfield was not invited by Rutgers, and I was never able to get into contact with them.

We will be at Princeton this week, albeit without 2 A team starters.

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Post by BroNi » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:13 pm

I would like to thank SHP Pirate for his opinions about our team. And I would like to return the complement. By all standards, Seton Hall is an excellent team!! We have already played head to head 4 times and have split 2-2, but it seems every game comes down to the last question. Really very exciting.

As for others in the NY/NJ area, Stuyvesant's and Hunter's performance yesterday in that field only confirms that they will be the top notch teams from NY. As for other NY teams, we really haven't seen any of them yet, although a number are coming to LIFT. I am really curious how Half Hollow Hills West, Horace Greeley, and White Plains will do.

As for NJ, as mentioned Seton Hall is definitely up there, and Bergan Ct. is the real deal. If yesterday is any indication, High Tech, Millburn and Livingston are rebuilding. I would like to add Chatham as a team to watch for the future, and we will see how Bloomfield does at Princeton and LIFT.
Bro. Nigel, Coach, Kellenberg Memorial HS, NY

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