BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

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BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Aaron » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:12 pm

Yale Quiz Bowl is pleased to announce Bulldog High School Academic Tournament XVII (BHSAT), which will take place on March 29, 2008. BHSAT annually features a number of top teams from around the country. As in the past, the questions will be written and edited by members of the Yale Quiz Bowl team.

Registration will begin at 8:30 AM with the first round beginning at 9:30 AM. Though it is difficult to know when exactly the tournament will end, it is safe to assume sometime in the early evening around 5 or 6PM.

Fees and registration information for the tournament is as follows:

Base fee: $90
Registration received by February 15, 2008: -$10 per team
Working buzzer system: -$10 each
Moderator: -$5 each
Second, third, etc. team from a school: -$5 each
Minimum fee per team: $60

Copies of the questions are also available for $15 per set. Question orders sent on or before February 29, 2008 will be filled the day of the tournament.

Please make checks payable to: Y. Student Academic Competitions
(Please do NOT make checks out to Yale Student Academic Competitions)

If you have any questions about BHSAT, please contact [email protected].

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Post by Ondes Martenot » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:49 pm

naqt format?

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:10 pm

mACF from what I've seen of last year's set.
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BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Aaron » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:08 am

Thanks to all the teams who have already registered.

Just a quick reminder to everyone that BHSAT this year still has lots of room for additional teams. Teams that register by February 15th will all be eligible for a discount of $10.

And in response to some inquires, with regards to checks:

Checks need to be made out to to "Y. Student Academic Competitions" and they can be given to us the day of the tournament or mailed.
Our mailing address is:
Yale Student Academic Competitions
P. O. Box 207092
New Haven, CT 06520-7092

And again, if you have any questions and would like more information about the tournament, please contact [email protected].

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Post by Aaron » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:37 am

A refresher:

Yale Quiz Bowl is pleased to announce Bulldog High School Academic Tournament XVII (BHSAT), which will take place on March 29, 2008. BHSAT annually features a number of top teams from around the country. As in the past, the questions will be written and edited by members of the Yale Quiz Bowl team.

Registration will begin at 8:30 AM with the first round beginning at 9:30 AM. Though it is difficult to know when exactly the tournament will end, it is safe to assume sometime in the early evening around 5 or 6PM.

Fees and registration information for the tournament is as follows:

Base fee: $90
Registration received by February 15, 2008: -$10 per team
Working buzzer system: -$10 each
Moderator: -$5 each
Second, third, etc. team from a school: -$5 each
Minimum fee per team: $60

Copies of the questions are also available for $15 per set. Question orders sent on or before February 29, 2008 will be filled the day of the tournament.

Please make checks payable to: Y. Student Academic Competitions
(Please do NOT make checks out to Yale Student Academic Competitions)

If you have any questions about BHSAT, please contact [email protected].

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Post by BroNi » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:27 pm

Put us down for 3 teams.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by TheCzarMan » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:27 pm

Is registration still open for this tournament?
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by First Chairman » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:33 pm

Is there a field update?
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Aaron » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:06 pm

Registration is still open. Let us know if your school would like to come.

Field Update:

The Williston Northampton School
Housatonic Valley Regional HS (2)
State College Area HS (2)
Kellenberg Memorial HS (3)
Walter Johnson HS
Sacred Heart Academy (2)
Suffield Academy
Simsbury HS (2)
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by TheCzarMan » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:44 pm

(Tentative) Bloomfield, NJ for 2 teams.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Aaron » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:46 pm

Let us know when you confirm that (and also if your school will be brining buzzers, moderators, etc.)
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by TheCzarMan » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:59 pm

If we come we'll be bringing one buzzer system.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by mistermoravian » Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:36 pm

*Tentative*

Moravian Academy, PA for 1 team and a buzzer system

After all, I'd love to stop by New Haven before Bulldog Days! :wink:

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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Aaron » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:53 am

Registration is still open, so let us know if your high school would like to come. We will still take question orders after the February 29 "deadline."

Field Update:
The Williston Northampton School
Housatonic Valley Regional HS (2)
State College Area HS (2)
Walter Johnson HS
Sacred Heart Academy (2)
Suffield Academy
Simsbury HS (2)
Gonzaga College HS
Hunter College
Kellenberg Memorial HS (3)
Ward Melville HS ("Buzzer Oppressors")
Bloomfield HS (2)*
Moravian Academy*

*Tentative- Do let us know when you confirm your plans.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Siow52 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:52 am

Tentative:

Stuyvesant: 2 teams, 1 buzzer system

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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by kcommo » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:06 am

We (Burlington, VT) are planning to be there with one or two teams. Barring unforeseen conflicts, you should be getting formal registration from our head coach fairly soon.

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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Aaron » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:01 am

If your high school would still like to come to BHSAT, please let us know ASAP.

Latest Field Update:
The Williston Northampton School
Housatonic Valley Regional HS (2)
State College Area HS (2)
Sacred Heart Academy (2)
Suffield Academy
Simsbury HS (2)
Gonzaga College HS
Cheshire HS
Kellenberg Memorial HS (3)
Ward Melville HS ("Buzzer Oppressors")
Half Hollow Hills High School West (2)
E.O. Smith HS (2)
Suffield HS
Hunter College
Stuyvesant HS (2)*
Walter Johnson HS*
Bloomfield HS (2)*
Moravian Academy*
Burlington (1-2)*

*Please confirm soon whether or not your school will be able to make it.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Golran » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:23 pm

Is it just me or is this field extremely strong for just a regular season tournament? In attendance are planned to be 7 of Byko's top 50, and among them 3 of the top 25. Is there any hope of it being a re-bracketed round robin for the final rounds as opposed to a single-elimination playoffs? I'm not sure how it ran last year.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by TheCzarMan » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:41 pm

Bloomfield will not attend, because she says it is too far away (Google Map Bloomfield-New Haven and see the ridiculousness).
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by AKKOLADE » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:44 pm

TheCzarMan wrote:Bloomfield will not attend, because she says it is too far away (Google Map Bloomfield-New Haven and see the ridiculousness).
That's the amount of time I'm on the road between my home & work, round trip, for two days.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Aaron » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:33 pm

Historically, and as is the case this year, BHSAT draws a number of top teams from around the country (unfortunately, Dorman could not make it this year). As for tournament format, we plan on doing a prelim round-robin with three brackets, followed by a crossover of the top 6 teams for playoffs round-robin (of course, other teams will still be playing in similiar crossovers). There will be one championship round too. Teams will be seeded based on Byko's rankings and other sources to ensure that brackets are fairly balanced. Many teams have expressed reservations against single-elimination and we plan to avoid that if at all possible.

As we finalize the field for BHSAT, we will be able to finalize the tournament format specifics.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Aaron » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:14 pm

Final tournament field:

Housatonic Valley Regional HS (2)
State College Area HS (2)
Stuyvesant High School (2)
Simsbury HS (2)
Suffield HS
E.O. Smith High School (2)
Gonzaga College HS
Half Hollow Hills HS West (2)
The Williston Northampton School
Cheshire High School
Suffield Academy
Kellenberg Memorial HS (3)
Ward Melville HS
Hunter College HS
Sacred Heart Academy (2)
Moravian Academy
Burlington HS
Newtown High School (2)
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Golran » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:46 am

About our money, instead of sending it we will bring it to the door. The guy writing the check feels safer that way.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Golran » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:16 pm

Being the weird excel nerd with too much time on his hands, I went through the teams and looked through Byko's rankings for them, and put it together in an excel spreadsheet. From there, I ranked within the tournament (assuming an A team is better than a B team within a school), and created a proposed 4 group, 7 team morning bracket. After my initial bracketing, I made small adjustments to allow teams from the same school not to play against each other in the initial round-robin. The one problem I ran into is the difference between Suffield HS and Suffield Academy (only 1 was listed by Byko, and so I used that ranking for both). I hope this helps save some time/effort.

Apparently .xls is not allowed, so I'll convert to word. Now .doc is not allowed! What is with this php not allowing these types of attachments! O well. See below:

School Rank Rank in Tournament Initial Proposed Division Reformated Proposed Division
State College Area HS 15 1 A A
Stuyvesant High School 16 2 B B
Hunter College HS 19 3 C C
Gonzaga College HS 20 4 D D
Moravian Academy 31 5 D D
Kellenberg Memorial HS 38 6 C C
Half Hollow Hills HS West 65 7 B A
State College Area HS B 139 8 A B
E.O. Smith High School 183 9 A A
Burlington HS 296 10 B B
Stuyvesant High School B 347 11 C D
Simsbury HS 392 12 D C
Half Hollow Hills HS West B 585 13 D D
Ward Melville HS 667 14 C C
Kellenberg Memorial HS B 864 15 B B
Kellenberg Memorial HS C 1302 16 A A
Suffield HS 1387 17 A A
Suffield Academy 1387 18 B B
The Williston Northampton School 1801 19 C C
Simsbury HS B 1864 20 D C
Newtown High School 2309 21 D D
E.O. Smith High School B 2888 22 C C
Cheshire High School 3014 23 B B
Sacred Heart Academy NR 24 A B
Housatonic Valley Regional HS B NR 25 A D
Sacred Heart Academy B NR 26 B A
Newtown High School B NR 27 C C
Housatonic Valley Regional HS NR 28 D A


Divison A
State College Area HS
Half Hollow Hills HS West
E.O. Smith High School
Kellenberg Memorial HS C
Suffield HS
Sacred Heart Academy B
Housatonic Valley Regional HS A

Divison B
Stuyvesant High School
State College Area HS B
Burlington HS
Kellenberg Memorial HS B
Suffield Academy
Cheshire High School
Sacred Heart Academy

Division C
Hunter College HS
Kellenberg Memorial HS
Simsbury HS
Ward Melville HS
The Williston Northampton School
E.O. Smith High School B
Newtown High School B

Division D
Gonzaga College HS
Moravian Academy
Stuyvesant High School B
Half Hollow Hills HS West B
Simsbury HS B
Newtown High School
Housatonic Valley Regional HS

Go ahead and e-mail me at dinoian -at- yah00 (o's not zeros) -dot- com if you want the excel.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Mooman » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:11 am

If I recall correctly, Stuyvesant beat Gonzaga in the semis, State College beat Hunter in the other semifinal game, and Stuyvesant beat State College in the finals.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:43 am

So uhhh....what were the results?
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by kcommo » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:51 pm

There were 32 teams total in eight groups, and the top 16 made the playoffs. The first-round results were:

(1) Stuyvesant def. (16) Kellenberg B
(9) State College B def. (8) E.O. Smith
(4) Moravian def. (13) Ward Melville
(5) Gonzaga def. (12) Burlington 480-110
(2) State College def. (15) Newtown
(7) Kellenberg def. (10) Stuyvesant B
(3) Hunter def. (14) Cheshire
(6) Half Hollow Hills West d def. (11) Simsbury

We left after that, though, so that's as much as I can tell you. The Yale people did keep stats so hopefully they'll post them at some point.

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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Mooman » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:20 pm

Playoffs "NCAA Tournament"
(1) Stuyvesant A beat (16) Kellenberg B
(9) State College B beat (8) E.O. Smith A
(4) Moravian A beat (13) Ward Melville
(5) Gonzaga beat (12) Burlington A
(2) State College A beat (15) Newtown A
(7) Kellenberg A beat (10) Stuyvesant B
(3) Hunter A beat (14) Cheshire A
(6) Half Hollow Hills West A beat (11) Simsbury A

(1) Stuyvesant beat (9) State College B
(5) Gonzaga beat (4) Moravian
(3) Hunter beat (6) Half Hollow Hills West
(2) State College A beat (7) Kellenberg

(1) Stuyvesant beat (5) Gonzaga
(2) State College beat (3) Hunter

(1) Stuyvesant beat (2) State College

There was also a consolation bracket "NIT", but I don't know what happened in there.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Gonzagapuma1 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:02 pm

Okay. This tournament had a few problems:
1. Tournament Direction- I don't really care that it ran late because I know how hard it is to run a tournament and crap happens that you don't anticipate. But, what I don't understand were the brackets. First there were 3 brackets that seemed pretty reasonable. Then, there were four brackets that were pretty bad in my opinion. Moravian got a top seed in a bracket for some reason, and we got put with Stuy in a pretty hard bracket. One of the things that I would point to to show that the brackets were unfair is that after 4 rounds(the only stats that were posted), we were 3rd in ppg, and another thing was that Moravian was the lowest ranked undefeated team, and E.O. Smith, another team in that bracket, was the lowest ranked one-loss team. But, my main problem was with,
2. THE QUESTIONS- I want to start out by saying that the semifinals packet was pretty good and the first round of the playoffs packet wasn't bad. But, the rest of the packets were just horrible. Some individual questions may have been alright, but for the most part, they were terrible. For example, the quarterfinals packet was just laughably bad. The first line of one question was , born on... in like 1955, this world famous British politician, yeah so you should probably never start a question like that. Also, the distribution was really screwed up. In fact, it didn't seem like there was a distribution. THe first round had 3 trash tus, and many packets seemed to cater to whatever the packet writer's strengths were. This REALLY made me wish I was playing as IS set which means that I really hated ths set. I think the real problem was that they were dumbing it down because it's a high school tournament. Obviously, it shouldn't be at ACF nats or regs difficulty, but ACF Fall is a really good difficulty for a high school tournament. The high school game has changed and there's no place for awful questions and bad distribution. We can totally handle a well-written, fairly difficult tournament, that doesn't have give-aways in the first line.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Sir Thopas » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:35 pm

Gonzagapuma1 wrote:2. THE QUESTIONS- I want to start out by saying that the semifinals packet was pretty good and the first round of the playoffs packet wasn't bad. But, the rest of the packets were just horrible. Some individual questions may have been alright, but for the most part, they were terrible. For example, the quarterfinals packet was just laughably bad. The first line of one question was , born on... in like 1955, this world famous British politician, yeah so you should probably never start a question like that. Also, the distribution was really screwed up. In fact, it didn't seem like there was a distribution. THe first round had 3 trash tus, and many packets seemed to cater to whatever the packet writer's strengths were. This REALLY made me wish I was playing as IS set which means that I really hated ths set. I think the real problem was that they were dumbing it down because it's a high school tournament. Obviously, it shouldn't be at ACF nats or regs difficulty, but ACF Fall is a really good difficulty for a high school tournament. The high school game has changed and there's no place for awful questions and bad distribution. We can totally handle a well-written, fairly difficult tournament, that doesn't have give-aways in the first line.
The semis packet was written mostly by Eric Mukherjee, although the Orwell tossup, among others, was not.

I agree, the distribution was really uneven, and seemed to be nonexistent at times, especially the sub-distributions. I think Africa came up twice throughout all disciplines. Much of the lit was English (especially two Jane Austen bonuses in the first two rounds) and there were tons of repeats. Many bonuses were binary matching, and bonuses based entirely on quotes (Jane Austen and that godawful love song bonus which everyone 0'd, for example) should just not be. The first type i And wow, the music theory. Acciaccatura?! That is not at all an appropriate answer difficulty-wise, especially in high school.

Other than that, what Dan says about the terrible lead-ins is true. Compounded by this was the fact that many of the giveaways were, well, not giveaways. I can't think of any examples right now, but they were either unclear or semantically meaningless ("name this most famous work of . . ."; I got hurt by not divining the question writer's idea of someone's most famous work at least once), or did not actually state the information that gave the answer away as would be reasonably defined. The bonuses were uneven, as well. I'll find some more specific examples in the near future; I have homework to do now.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by catsasslippers » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:30 pm

East Timor came up three times, and there was a tossup that started out " Rastafarians based their name on this man's name . . . " In addition, "Invented by Kary Mullis" began a tossup on PCR. The packets were "edited for repeats" which is apparnently why we had to wait so long for the playoff rounds, but there were still repeats in every single playoff round. Eric's questions were excellent, but they stuck out like sore thumbs.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:59 pm

Ok, uh, this is the first time I've posted in this section, so here goes.

I have a slightly different view on this whole affair, since all I did was contribute a packet and lend my moderating services, but I feel for Dan and Guy in their complaint. I also know what its like to suffer through a poorly written set (and lets not kid ourselves here, this tournament was neither well-written nor well-edited). But I feel like the fine people at Yale QB should be given the benefit of the doubt, and are due a rational critique of their tournament so that future competitors are given the tournaments they deserve.

I'm not interested in criticizing any logistical issues, because I myself know very little of these things. But one thing I do have a hand in is competent packet-writing, which I feel that anyone can learn with some time and effort. The real failure of this tournament wasn't the
writing of the inexperienced members of the team, which is bound not to be up to par, but the fact that the questions were not brought up to a basic level of decency by the more experienced members of the team, who should by now be familiar with what good quizbowl looks like. If, for whatever reason, the top editors are inexperienced as well, there's no shame in asking or taking outside help in editing your questions (I don't want to get too personal here; lets just say offers were on the table). Quizbowl tournaments aren't written for the writers' pride; they're written for the competitors. And when your competitors are paying you money to play your questions, the quizbowl social contract dictates that you owe them the best questions possible.

In general, I would suggest that the editors consult both Jerry's guide on writing questions, and the more-well received tournaments of late to see how questions should be structured (I'll throw out MUT and Terrapin as examples). But for now, lets break this down:

1. Tossup clues. There were numerous examples of simply bad choices for leadin material and middle clues in every single packet. In general, a leadin should be obscure, uniquely identifying, and reward real knowledge, and clues should be painstakingly arranged for the same reason. Examples:

-Leadins like "born in [year]" and "This famous British politician", are not only not useful, but uninteresting. The biographical details of a scientist or politicians life are never useful to someone in the field; only their writings and work should be emphasized.
-Many literature tossups started with a title, or even the author (Shakespeare wrote "The Tempest" I hear); bad idea. Start with a plot summary of a not-very-well known work - this moves the emphasis away from list-based knowledge to real knowledge.
-Many science tossups started with non-identifying, non-unique clues. For example, the Biot-Savart law tossup started by mentioning that it was an inverse square law. Offhand, I can think of at least 3 other laws that follow that same pattern.
-The tossup on Jainism featured Tirthankaras in the first line. The tossup on Indira Ghandi featured Nehru in the first line. A tossup on Haile Selassie mentioned Rastafarianism in the first line. These are not the only examples of this phenomenon. While discussing this question with the competitors, Guy Tabachnik's eighth-grade teammates informed me that they thought said questions were poor; besides informing you of Hunter College's discriminating tastes, this should tell you that there's nothing wrong with adding actual difficult material into a tossup leadin.
-Middle clues should always contain real material, not trivia. Questions on Marcel Proust in which the first clue about his actual writing is that his most famous work came in seven volumes is not useful.

2. Answer choices. Questions aren't meant to be cute. They aren't meant to be funn. They aren't meant to be puzzles. They're meant to be informative and rewarding to the team with deeper knowledge. Examples:

-Questions on things like lines from love songs do not fall into this category, nor do questions on the Law and Order sound or Ketchup - these things are not only impossible to write pyramidally, but also take up valuable space. Why not simply write a tossup on Jack McCoy instead of one on the Law and Order sound?
-Questions on things like the Poly(A) tail and Barium also fall into this trap (although that first one could have been done well by someone like Matt Keller), because they are trivial within their fields and have few good clues. In general, element tossups are a bad idea unless you really know what you're doing with them.
-In general, you have to ask two questions about an answer choice: 1. Is it important? 2. Are there enough clues to write a dense tossup? An accessory point is that generally if an answer choice meets these criteria, it is also interesting.

3. Distribution.

-First, the general distribution. 2 trash questions per pack is excessive, first of all. Second of all, the distribution within a category should be across both location and time (two questions on german history in one packet is too many).
-Secondly, the internal distribution. There were instances where a team would hear 3 tossups in the same category in a row. Also, there were instances in which a trash question would be at or near the end of a packet. Both of these things are bad in that they disrupt the flow of a game.

4. Editing. There are a few things I want to address:

-First, internal editing. As I stated earlier, it seems that very little effort was made to bring these questions up to par.
-Furthermore, there was no answer spreadsheet compiled (upon asking for one, I was told that I would receive it "soon". It never came). This is paramount to writing a good tournament, and technology has reached the point where there's no good excuse to having this many repeats in a tournament.
-Finally, I want to get a little more heavy-handed for a second. You mutilated my packet, and from what I understand, some of Mike Wehrman's packet. That's right, I said it. A freelance packet represents a good deal of time and effort on the part of the writers - cutting out the first half of every tossup without trying to make whatever's left pyramidal shows very little respect for this time and effort. Furthermore, given that this packet was written with the top teams in the country in mind (it was a playoff packet), there was nothing wrong with the way it was written. Said teams don't care if tossups run a little long. This is especially important, because this isn't the first time this has happened. BoB had several documented cases of similar happenings; I want to know what drives your editing staff to do this to people's submissions.


These are the major issues that I feel should be addressed; the issues about difficulty and other things that Dan and Guy are also critical. I would love to see future Yale tournaments be the critical successes that their fields deserve, and I'd like to think Yale QB has the same desire. But until you actually try to write a decent set and follow basic guidelines of packet writing that have been stated over and over and over, this will be impossible.

EDIT: Also, credit where credit is due. Trygve Meade and Evan Nagler contributed to the packet as well.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Mooman » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:52 am

Did anybody else have issues with buzzers? Before the playoffs, we only had one game where everything was fully functional.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Golran » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:08 pm

We were only in 1 room where buzzers worked and that was the playoffs. Luck for us, we practice with slapbowl often.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by DumbJaques » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:25 pm

We were only in 1 room where buzzers worked and that was the playoffs.
I hope I'm misreading this. . .
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by MikeWormdog » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:48 pm

I don't have firsthand knowledge of what exactly happened with the questions this year because I'm not really involved with Yale quizbowl any longer thanks to my dissertation. I just showed up to moderate, having written roughly a packet's worth of questions. That said, I can provide a decent overview of the problems brought up.

First, a little how packets are traditionally done for BHSAT. It's sort of a pod system. There is one editor per 3 packets, with 4 or so people (including the editor) working on questions for those packets. There are usually 4 editors, so the process yields about 12 packets. The editors get together before the tournament and look for repeats and fill in missing questions. Also, there's often a head editor who helps fix up the already-edited packets. Usually this system works fairly well.

This year, apparently, we had experienced BHSAT writers/editors leaving before the year started (I'm in this camp, as are several others) or just before the tournament (last year's head editor who was to hold this position again.) I think Yale has a large crop of freshmen this year, too. Thus, there was a perfect storm of inexperienced editors and writers, which led to non-editing, late and/or missing questions, and a lack of communication among the editors (three of whom got together to check for repeats in their packets, one who did not for some reason). So there were lots of bad questions and repeats.

We checked the playoff packets and got rid of repeats in those, combining packets where necessary. We didn't do anything with the consolation bracket questions; whatever repeats there were were left in.

Re: Eric's complaint about editing his questions. I would imagine these questions got edited at least partly because they were in on time. Editors waiting for other questions simply edited questions that probably didn't need it and did not edit late-arriving questions that obviously did.

I imagine that people will learn from their mistakes this year and have better questions and a more organized approach for next year's BHSAT.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Aaron » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:11 pm

DumbJaques wrote:
We were only in 1 room where buzzers worked and that was the playoffs.
I hope I'm misreading this. . .
To clarify on issue of buzzers:

There were functional buzzers in all but one of the prelim round rooms, a problem which only developed after two teams showed up at the tournament without prior notice, resulting in an unanticipated expansion of the field. Regarding the so-called "non-working" buzzers, those were buzzer sets that had one or two malfunctioning buzzers. Our main focus was on ensuring that there were enough buzzers for the tournament; unfortunately, the relative functional status of those buzzers is something that we have less control over.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by BroNi » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:58 am

Stats?
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by slimg » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:49 pm

Gonzagapuma1 wrote: 2. THE QUESTIONS- I want to start out by saying that the semifinals packet was pretty good and the first round of the playoffs packet wasn't bad. But, the rest of the packets were just horrible. Some individual questions may have been alright, but for the most part, they were terrible. For example, the quarterfinals packet was just laughably bad. The first line of one question was , born on... in like 1955, this world famous British politician, yeah so you should probably never start a question like that. Also, the distribution was really screwed up. In fact, it didn't seem like there was a distribution. THe first round had 3 trash tus, and many packets seemed to cater to whatever the packet writer's strengths were. This REALLY made me wish I was playing as IS set which means that I really hated ths set. I think the real problem was that they were dumbing it down because it's a high school tournament. Obviously, it shouldn't be at ACF nats or regs difficulty, but ACF Fall is a really good difficulty for a high school tournament. The high school game has changed and there's no place for awful questions and bad distribution. We can totally handle a well-written, fairly difficult tournament, that doesn't have give-aways in the first line.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by slimg » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:54 pm

We did not get a single geography question all day. Also, for the first half of the preliminaries, all "pencil and paper ready questions" were chemistry, not math. I appreciate the effort of the Yale team, but it did not measure up to an NAQT packet set.
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Re: BHSAT XVII (3/29/08) at Yale (New Haven, CT)

Post by Golran » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:47 pm

stats anytime soon?
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