Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

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Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Mr Foster » Sun May 18, 2008 3:58 pm

I think the 2006-2007 Maggie Walker team was the best QB team ever what about you guys?
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by TheCzarMan » Sun May 18, 2008 4:18 pm

TJ 05 /sheep.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by First Chairman » Sun May 18, 2008 4:21 pm

Could you explain why you think that team was the greatest qb team eva? It would contribute a bit to discussion.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by quizbowllee » Sun May 18, 2008 4:27 pm

Trust me. It was TJ 2005.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by mhanna » Sun May 18, 2008 4:34 pm

The Jim Garrick coached Dorman teams of the early 1990s took on all comers including TJ and Maggie Walker and kept on winning.

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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Sir Thopas » Sun May 18, 2008 4:44 pm

mhanna wrote:The Jim Garrick coached Dorman teams of the early 1990s took on all comers including TJ and Maggie Walker and kept on winning.
I am almost entirely sure that such a team would not make the playoffs at PACE today. They may have been good for their time, but QB knowledge has just gotten so much deeper across the board since then.

Other than that, TJ '05, yeah. Nobody can touch that.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun May 18, 2008 4:45 pm

mhanna wrote:The Jim Garrick coached Dorman teams of the early 1990s took on all comers including TJ and Maggie Walker and kept on winning.
Without knowledge of those Dorman teams' records or specific performances, I'd say "undefeated for an entire year on real pyramidal questions" is hard to top. Also, Maggie Walker's team was founded in 1993.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by theMoMA » Sun May 18, 2008 4:50 pm

TJ 05 was clearly one of the best teams of all time, even on raw knowledge, but they were so far ahead of the rest of the field that it's hard to know how good they really were. I wouldn't be surprised if this year's best teams know more things than TJ05 did though. I think that if any team unites NAQT and PACE this year, they have a legit claim as best team ever.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by ragnarok2012 » Sun May 18, 2008 4:56 pm

mhanna wrote:The Jim Garrick coached Dorman teams of the early 1990s took on all comers including TJ and Maggie Walker and kept on winning.
Its hard in any "greatest ever" discussion to compare teams across the ages because situations change (question difficulty, types of questions, touraments available).

However, in my opinion, TJ was the best team ever, at LEAST in the 21st century.

To quote some facts from NAQT

- they were a culmination of two/ three years ( i can't tell with those pseudonyms) from 2003- 2005 of 3 state national championships
- Over 630 points per game
- 38 game win streak ( 2003- 2005)
- first place in PACE that year and 2nd places from 2003 and 2004

- hearing them play in the finals and against another team, they showed great speed and great poise (in coming back from deficits in the final).
theMoMA wrote:TJ 05 was clearly one of the best teams of all time, even on raw knowledge, but they were so far ahead of the rest of the field that it's hard to know how good they really were. I wouldn't be surprised if this year's best teams know more things than TJ05 did though. I think that if any team unites NAQT and PACE this year, they have a legit claim as best team ever.
TJ had no competition in 2005, but this year, theres a 3 way struggle between dorman, whitman, TJ. I think to be declared best ever from this years field would require two of those teams to be thrashed by the other, which I dont think is possible.

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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Sun May 18, 2008 5:09 pm

As someone who was on the receiving-end of a record-breaking performance, I can say that it's TJ '05, without a dobt.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Important Bird Area » Sun May 18, 2008 6:10 pm

1. Essentially everyone who saw them play agrees that 2005 Thomas Jefferson was the best team of all time. What team deserves the title of second-best of all time? What teams would make a top-ten list?

2. Can we/should we compare the last decade's teams with teams from the mid-1990s and earlier which rarely if ever played on pyramidal questions? Is there some form of quizbowl sabermetrics that would be helpful here, or does :chip: introduce so much noise to the data that the endeavor is useless?
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Matt Weiner » Sun May 18, 2008 6:48 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:1. Essentially everyone who saw them play agrees that 2005 Thomas Jefferson was the best team of all time. What team deserves the title of second-best of all time? What teams would make a top-ten list?

2. Can we/should we compare the last decade's teams with teams from the mid-1990s and earlier which rarely if ever played on pyramidal questions? Is there some form of quizbowl sabermetrics that would be helpful here, or does :chip: introduce so much noise to the data that the endeavor is useless?
There are essentially no stats whatsoever, pre-empting questions about the value or meaning of those stats. Chip only posts team records, PPGs, and the scores of playoff games--and even that goes back only as far as 1997. Similar stats for ASCN begin in 1995. Even if you could somehow account for the level of competition, the different format, and the question structure (which, I submit, you could not), you still can't get a whole lot of information out of PPG alone. Plus, nationals alone is just 1 or 2 tournaments out of the whole season and doesn't tell the entire story.

So, anything from the 20th century will have to rely on hearsay. I submit that we all agree that Dorman in 1991 and some other teams from the 80s and 90s were quite good, but that there is no fair way to compare them to teams from post-2000 when standardized statistics became more available. In terms of any sort of debate that can be backed up with evidence rather than just loudly asserting our various positions, we're restricted to talking about the best teams of this millenium only.

Here is my quickly-dashed-off Top 10 list that probably omits someone important:

1. Thomas Jefferson 2005: Undefeated at NSC and HSNCT. No one else has ever done that. That alone would put them in the top spot, and when you add in their absolute shattering of every scoring record and the fact that they never lost a game all year when playing their full A team on pyramidal questions, there is no justification for listing any other team from the modern era up here.
2. Thomas Jefferson 2004: If going undefeated for the whole year puts you in 1st, then losing only a single game for the whole year puts you in 2nd. This team stormed through HSNCT with a flawless record, and only dropped their very last game of the season, to Maggie Walker in the 2004 NSC final that constitutes the greatest game I've ever seen on any level of quizbowl.
3. Maggie Walker 2007: They lost a few games in the early part of the season, but it only motivated them to get stronger. Unifying the HSNCT and NSC titles in an era of unprecedented competition is what puts them in contention for this spot, and my evaluation that they could have beaten any other 21st-century team, except for TJ at its peak, clinches it.
4. Dorman 2003: Swept through the NSC, including a convincing finals victory over the TJ team that had beaten them at the HSNCT final. Going undefeated at a national is extremely impressive, and Dorman might be higher based on that alone, had they not dropped some games to non-title contenders at HSNCT.
5. Richard Montgomery 2002: Another undefeated NSC champion, who knocked off several of the teams involved in the six-way almost-tie atop the HSNCT standings along the way. Had they attended HSNCT, they may have won it and be in contention for best of all time status, but we'll never know.
6. Richard Montgomery 2006: Pulled it out at a competitive HSNCT and fell just short at NSC. Had they performed similarly in 2001, losing a few games at HSNCT to non-contending opponents, I might not have listed them, but to win the HSNCT in recent years when the competitive level is so high is a feat. Along with Dorman 2003, this is a team that at times impressed me enough with the depth of their knowledge that I think they would still hold up against some of this year's best, in ways that other teams on the list might not be able to.
7. State College 2001: 2001 was a hard call, with both the HSNCT and NSC champions losing a bunch of games, and no team emerging as dominant at any point in the year. However, I have to give the nod to State College for surviving the NSC at its hardest difficulty level ever, not to mention defending their title after losing a 145 PPG scorer to graduation.
8. Detroit Catholic Central 2001: Thus, the other national champion from that year gets the next spot. They had to survive some tough challenges from Detroit Country Day, Riverdale, and State College to make it through, but they pulled together when it counted.
9. Maggie Walker 2004: Probably would have unified the NSC and HSNCT titles had it not been for Thomas Jefferson. They were too far behind TJ for the whole year to justify a higher spot, but they get on the list for finishing 1-2 at the nationals and for winning the greatest game ever played.
10. Lakeside 2005: Only lost to TJ, and nearly became the 1980 US Olympic hockey team of quizbowl in the HSNCT final. Had they been able to play out of Washington more often, who knows where they would fall in our esteem.

Honorable mentions: Raleigh Charter 2006, State College 2005, Irmo 2002, St. John's 2002
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Sun May 18, 2008 6:58 pm

Matt Weiner wrote: 2. Thomas Jefferson 2004: If going undefeated for the whole year puts you in 1st, then losing only a single game for the whole year puts you in 2nd. This team stormed through HSNCT with a flawless record, and only dropped their very last game of the season, to Maggie Walker in the 2004 NSC final that constitutes the greatest game I've ever seen on any level of quizbowl.
The scoresheet from that game is pinned to the bulletin board strip on top of the white board in our practice room. It must have been amazing to see the actual game...
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by quizbowllee » Sun May 18, 2008 7:04 pm

I don't personally know the guys from TJ A 2005, but would it be conceivable for them to have a "reunion" of sorts some day and play a scrimmage match or two against the NSC or HSNCT champion? I know that having not played together (if at all) for some years will atrophy their ability, but it might be fun just to see it. I just know that if I were part of a team being called "the greatest ever," I might want to do this just of the sake of nostalgia.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by BuzzerZen » Sun May 18, 2008 7:12 pm

quizbowllee wrote:I don't personally know the guys from TJ A 2005, but would it be conceivable for them to have a "reunion" of sorts some day and play a scrimmage match or two against the NSC or HSNCT champion?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.

No.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by killbill_07 » Sun May 18, 2008 9:53 pm

2005 NAQT HSNCT Playoffs
Fifth Round - Winners' Bracket
"Thomas Jefferson A 885, Walton 95"

Wait, is this a typo from the NAQT archives? Please tell me its a typo. How a team can put up that kind of a number against an opponent that ended up being tied for 8th in the HSNCT is totally beyond me. Disregarding powers and negs, that implies getting 22 tossups and converting on EVERY single bonus part on a given NAQT packet plus 5 more points. :shock:
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by NoahMinkCHS » Sun May 18, 2008 11:04 pm

killbill_07 wrote:Disregarding powers and negs, that implies getting 22 tossups and converting on EVERY single bonus part on a given NAQT packet plus 5 more points. :shock:
Don't disregard powers, then.
metsfan001 wrote:I am almost entirely sure that such a team would not make the playoffs at PACE today. They may have been good for their time, but QB knowledge has just gotten so much deeper across the board since then.
But it's not really legitimate to compare like that across eras. I think the "best team ever" would be the one that, relative to other teams at that time (including a few years before and after, to account for "down" years nationally) most thoroughly dominated its opponents. That said, Matt is dead-on about why it's not really possible to look back too far anyway. Now that NAQT and PACE are around, keeping good records of legitimate tournaments, comparisons like this (whatever their value) should get easier.

Anyway, I dodged the TJ 05 bullet, but we played TJ 04 at HSNCT, kept it close for a half, and then spent the next nine minutes watching a demonstration of why that team and the next year's model are so highly thought of. (And as I recall, it was mostly just watching...)
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sun May 18, 2008 11:13 pm

NoahMinkCHS wrote:Don't disregard powers, then.
Never, ever, ever disregard powers with that team. In our game with '05, when the question felt like it had gotten past the power mark, we knew that we'd get it. The trouble is, it didn't frequently make it past the power mark (or too far, at least).
NoahMinkCHS wrote: Anyway, I dodged the TJ 05 bullet, but we played TJ 04 at HSNCT, kept it close for a half, and then spent the next nine minutes watching a demonstration of why that team and the next year's model are so highly thought of. (And as I recall, it was mostly just watching...)
The '05 bullet hit us because we foolishly beat State College '05 in the first round of the playoffs. Wouldn't have traded it for the world, though. The fact that we held them to their lowest score in a game where they didn't neg essentially the entire first half is a proud, proud accomplishment. Also probably dumb luck. I have to say, playing against them made me see why quiz bowl can be beautiful.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by quizbowllee » Sun May 18, 2008 11:34 pm

killbill_07 wrote:2005 NAQT HSNCT Playoffs
Fifth Round - Winners' Bracket
"Thomas Jefferson A 885, Walton 95"

Wait, is this a typo from the NAQT archives? Please tell me its a typo. How a team can put up that kind of a number against an opponent that ended up being tied for 8th in the HSNCT is totally beyond me. Disregarding powers and negs, that implies getting 22 tossups and converting on EVERY single bonus part on a given NAQT packet plus 5 more points. :shock:
It has been asked on this board before if that was a typo. It was not. It happened.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by manary » Mon May 19, 2008 12:43 am

Why isn't this listed as a 'record' on the NAQT record list? Not in their database? Someone should send them the evidence...
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by First Chairman » Mon May 19, 2008 7:44 am

NoahMinkCHS wrote:But it's not really legitimate to compare like that across eras. I think the "best team ever" would be the one that, relative to other teams at that time (including a few years before and after, to account for "down" years nationally) most thoroughly dominated its opponents. That said, Matt is dead-on about why it's not really possible to look back too far anyway. Now that NAQT and PACE are around, keeping good records of legitimate tournaments, comparisons like this (whatever their value) should get easier.
Excuse me... PACE has been keeping our tournament records since we started in 1998 (with the exception of Samer not getting me all records in 1999), and this has been something I have insisted that we maintain (since most of the other nationals at that time didn't). So that said, we DO have an idea of how things have changed. Go back to our historical archive of NSC questions since 1998 compared to last year (for those of you who have access to them as registrants of the 2008 NSC) or the year before. The questions have gotten remarkably more detailed, and yet -- if you look at our records -- our general scoring has still gone up. NSC format is unique in that we have 1000 points possible in a regulation game, so we can calculate a metric of convertibility of our questions; thus the record for highest score (both teams) shows how we have really gotten some great games where at least 70% of our points were awarded in a match... something that would have been a "rarity" 10 years before. We also are the only national that does reboundable bonuses, and we have a record kept for the most points stolen by a team in games just to address any questions WITH EVIDENCE (granted extreme evidence) on whether bouncebacks make a huge difference in a game.

:chip: does remark whenever he has seen a team break his 400-point game score barrier. Granted he hasn't done that recently. That tells us something, though I don't know exactly what.

Now I do think it is hard to compare the champions throughout eras because question difficulty has become remarkably different. But I don't think it's a futile exercise. I personally wouldn't discount the 1998 State College team in my top 10, but I do think that the other teams mentioned in the posts on this thread would certainly merit the mention of being among the best teams at least in this past decade (1998-2007).
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by jrbarry » Mon May 19, 2008 6:00 pm

Y'all know it is not easy if nigh on impossible to compare teams across decades of quiz bowl. But, it is an interesting topic of conversation.

I can agree with Thomas Jefferson, 2005, as the best I ever saw, but I still argue that Dorman in the early 1990s was amazing especially considering that Dorman High School was (and is) simply a public, nonselective, Southern state, small city high school with what one might call normal demographics.

I would also like to commend State College as an amazing quiz bowl program. Every State College team I have seen since I first saw them in 1996 has been amazing.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Matt Weiner » Mon May 19, 2008 6:03 pm

jrbarry wrote:I can agree with Thomas Jefferson, 2005, as the best I ever saw, but I still argue that Dorman in the early 1990s was amazing especially considering that Dorman High School was (and is) simply a public, nonselective, Southern state, small city high school with what one might call normal demographics.
What do you mean by "normal demographics"?
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Stat Boy » Mon May 19, 2008 8:31 pm

...Southern state...
I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what this has to do with greatness. As has been noted frequently, the Southeast has been a hub of quizbowl activity for a while.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by ClemsonQB » Mon May 19, 2008 9:54 pm

Stat Boy wrote:
...Southern state...
I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what this has to do with greatness. As has been noted frequently, the Southeast has been a hub of quizbowl activity for a while.
I'm sure Mr. Barry was talking about the poor state of education in the South and not the state of quizbowl in the region, because like the rest of his post, Dorman HS was being discussed, not the entire qb community south of the Mason-Dixon line.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by STPickrell » Mon May 19, 2008 10:37 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:
jrbarry wrote:I can agree with Thomas Jefferson, 2005, as the best I ever saw, but I still argue that Dorman in the early 1990s was amazing especially considering that Dorman High School was (and is) simply a public, nonselective, Southern state, small city high school with what one might call normal demographics.
What do you mean by "normal demographics"?
Thomas Jefferson draws from the Counties of Fairfax (#2 in median household income), Arlington (#50), Loudoun (#3), Prince William (#30), and Fauquier (#58), and the Cities of Fairfax (#23) and Falls Church (#8). The lowest of these localities has a median household income of $61,999.

By contrast, Spartanburg County has a median household income of $37,759.

Or, in colloquial terms, Northern VA has da bling, yo.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon May 19, 2008 11:05 pm

I never want to hear that from any white person in his 30s ever again.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by rchschem » Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 am

Matt Weiner wrote:
1. Thomas Jefferson 2005
2. Thomas Jefferson 2004
3. Maggie Walker 2007
6. Richard Montgomery 2006
9. Maggie Walker 2004
Having lost embarassingly to all these teams, I can say TJ 2005 was the best I've seen.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Tue May 20, 2008 9:46 am

Can somebody post a link (or just more info) of that TJ/MW match that you're all talking about? I'd love to see the scoresheet to that.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Tue May 20, 2008 4:23 pm

Caesar Rodney HS wrote:Can somebody post a link (or just more info) of that TJ/MW match that you're all talking about? I'd love to see the scoresheet to that.
It involved an epic comeback in the stretch round; I don't remember the exact score.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by cvdwightw » Tue May 20, 2008 4:46 pm

MLWGS-Gir wrote:
Caesar Rodney HS wrote:Can somebody post a link (or just more info) of that TJ/MW match that you're all talking about? I'd love to see the scoresheet to that.
It involved an epic comeback in the stretch round; I don't remember the exact score.
The PACE site claims MW was down 150 with 300 possible points remaining, rallied to win 395-345. Source.

Matt, given that we have some records for 2000 State College, where in that top-10 list would you place them? They were the first to unify the HSNCT/NSC crown and did so in dominating fashion, going 25-1 over the two tournaments with the only loss by 35 to your team.

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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue May 20, 2008 5:27 pm

Doesn't the 21st century begin in 2001?
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by The Time Keeper » Tue May 20, 2008 5:34 pm

cvdwightw wrote:
Matt, given that we have some records for 2000 State College, where in that top-10 list would you place them? They were the first to unify the HSNCT/NSC crown and did so in dominating fashion, going 25-1 over the two tournaments with the only loss by 35 to your team.
Not to speak for Matt Weiner, but I think they would clearly go above the #7-ranked 2001 SC since having Jacob Mikanowski more than compensates for whatever improvement Martin Devecka made between 2000 and 2001. They probably go above 2002 RM at least (who I consider a bit overrated compared to some teams below them, even with their undefeated performance at NSC) and possibly as high as #4 although I wouldn't know how to begin comparing them with Dorman's solid 2003 team who beat everyone at that NSC.

Looking at old NSC information has reminded me to ask, Dr. Chuck or Byko (or any other long-time PACE people), do you have stat sheets from early NSCs stored away somewhere? Looking through the archives on the pace-nsc.org site, there are pretty scant results from the pre-SQBS days. Everything before 2005 has pretty limited information. I doubt there's some kind of hardcopy NSC results archive somewhere considering the number of different people who have run NSCs and the different locations used, but it would be interesting to have the team and individual results from 1998-2004 entered into SQBS or any other readable format. Obviously you guys are all currently busy working on the 2008 NSC, but I thought it'd be something worth looking into when you're done with that, if it's even possible that is.
Deesy Does It wrote:Doesn't the 21st century begin in 2001?
I would imagine Dwight knows that, which is why he asked where Matt would rank 2000 State College as opposed to asking why he didn't rank them.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Matt Weiner » Tue May 20, 2008 5:39 pm

The 2000 SC team was deep enough to beat anyone on the list when they were playing at their best; by the same token, they dropped a few games that year to teams that didn't end up playing at the national-championship level by June, so I'm not sure how to rank them. Obviously, they would have to be somewhere in the top 5 based on unifying the two national titles. I'm sure the fact that they beat my own team 14 times out of 15 would color my ranking to their benefit...
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by jbarnes112358 » Tue May 20, 2008 7:49 pm

Mr Foster wrote:I think the 2006-2007 Maggie Walker team was the best QB team ever what about you guys?
I appreciate the nod, and yes, that was an awesome team, especially down the stretch. But, I agree with the consensus of this board that TJ '05 has been the greatest high school team of the 21st century (or of any century for that matter).

I believe Matt considered the State College '00 team to be in the 20th century, which they were. My history with quizbowl does not go back further than that. But, from all I know about them, SC '00 is certainly one of the very top teams of any era, and would be highly competitive with more recent teams.

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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Tue May 20, 2008 8:45 pm

Mr Foster wrote:I think the 2006-2007 Maggie Walker team was the best QB team ever what about you guys?
Just read this. We almost beat that Maggie Walker team, but we never came close to touching TJ '05.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue May 20, 2008 10:06 pm

You were also two years older, no?
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Tue May 20, 2008 10:15 pm

Deesy Does It wrote:You were also two years older, no?
A valid point; however, having played both teams in two formats, I feel I can still compare them.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Byko » Tue May 20, 2008 10:45 pm

Dolemite wrote:Looking at old NSC information has reminded me to ask, Dr. Chuck or Byko (or any other long-time PACE people), do you have stat sheets from early NSCs stored away somewhere? Looking through the archives on the pace-nsc.org site, there are pretty scant results from the pre-SQBS days. Everything before 2005 has pretty limited information. I doubt there's some kind of hardcopy NSC results archive somewhere considering the number of different people who have run NSCs and the different locations used, but it would be interesting to have the team and individual results from 1998-2004 entered into SQBS or any other readable format. Obviously you guys are all currently busy working on the 2008 NSC, but I thought it'd be something worth looking into when you're done with that, if it's even possible that is.
I wish. I was able to go through the Internet archive to find the scores of games from 1998, so those should at least be documented, though there is no evidence of further breakdowns of those scores or any individual stats. The entire 1999 stats appear to have been lost, and (I'm embarrassed to say), so have 2000 it appears (which is really bad since, well, I ran stats that year). I don't think there was really a lot of record-keeping prior to 2003 in terms of full breakdowns of stats since anything that was assembled in those days was a result of homemade Excel spreadsheets, which are far from uniform in formatting.

It's a project that I wanted to pursue as I worked to put together a beginning semblance of an NSC archive (let me know what else you'd like to see--hopefully, I'll have some time for improvements on it this summer). Perhaps it can get closer to there eventually.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by First Chairman » Thu May 22, 2008 8:07 am

Byko wrote:
Dolemite wrote:Looking at old NSC information has reminded me to ask, Dr. Chuck or Byko (or any other long-time PACE people), do you have stat sheets from early NSCs stored away somewhere? Looking through the archives on the pace-nsc.org site, there are pretty scant results from the pre-SQBS days. Everything before 2005 has pretty limited information. I doubt there's some kind of hardcopy NSC results archive somewhere considering the number of different people who have run NSCs and the different locations used, but it would be interesting to have the team and individual results from 1998-2004 entered into SQBS or any other readable format. Obviously you guys are all currently busy working on the 2008 NSC, but I thought it'd be something worth looking into when you're done with that, if it's even possible that is.
I wish. I was able to go through the Internet archive to find the scores of games from 1998, so those should at least be documented, though there is no evidence of further breakdowns of those scores or any individual stats. The entire 1999 stats appear to have been lost, and (I'm embarrassed to say), so have 2000 it appears (which is really bad since, well, I ran stats that year). I don't think there was really a lot of record-keeping prior to 2003 in terms of full breakdowns of stats since anything that was assembled in those days was a result of homemade Excel spreadsheets, which are far from uniform in formatting.

It's a project that I wanted to pursue as I worked to put together a beginning semblance of an NSC archive (let me know what else you'd like to see--hopefully, I'll have some time for improvements on it this summer). Perhaps it can get closer to there eventually.
Bykowski, got your back: I think I have 2000 stats. I've been careful to keep everything on the electronic side if I get copies of things, especially in the 1998-2000 days (though I don't have much in 1999 because Samer had those files originally), and I know I have your stats. I just opened it up on my work computer where I have kept the archive (I'm sure I have it on CD, but I know how much I can lose data in the library archives of my apartment. I have to see if my record of the 1998 tournament is still where I think it might be.
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by Lagotto Romagnolo » Thu May 22, 2008 12:06 pm

Having faced and been crushed by the TJ 05 team at most tournaments held in the DC region that year, I would have to agree that said team is perhaps the greatest ever at the high school level. I played several of them at the Virginia Science Bowl as well, and what I saw was amazing (well, I expected impressive performance from a science magnet school, but still..).

I could also share a few stories about what happened OUTSIDE the game room...
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Langley HS '07 / Brown '11 / Illinois '14
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Re: Greatest Quiz Bowl team ever?

Post by vcuEvan » Thu May 22, 2008 6:33 pm

I think comparing teams over any period of time is nearly impossible. The overall level of play improves enough on average from one year to the next that making comparisons is really difficult. Still I'd rate TJ 05 as the best highschool team ever in terms of total domination of their opponents and I agree with TJ 04 in second. I played those teams countless times my freshman and sophomore years and that was very good training for the beat downs I get to receive now in college. :)

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