NY/NJ 2008-2009

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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:20 pm

I think that if you're dealing with brand new members, Prison Bowl is probably a bit too difficult. I recommend stuff like NAQT A level or IS just to get them used to pyramidality with the goal to eventually move them on to more difficult and longer packets.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:38 pm

aarcoh wrote:I think that if you're dealing with brand new members, Prison Bowl is probably a bit too difficult. I recommend stuff like NAQT A level or IS just to get them used to pyramidality with the goal to eventually move them on to more difficult and longer packets.
No, these are Juniors who have been around for a couple years now, albeit some were more causal members. I talked to the main complainer, showed him the archives, and he picked out some packets he liked more which hopefully works out better.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by The Infanta » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:45 pm

aarcoh wrote:
We made the stupid mistake of chugging energy drinks right before playoffs
My advice: get a good lunch, and try to spend the hour or so you have for lunch without talking about quizbowl. If you have to talk about quizbowl, talk about any funny negs you had in the prelims.

We did that...in addition to chugging energy drinks. Doesn't help.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by erkifish26 » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:58 pm

Would anybody be down with helping me compile a complete regional calendar? It would be an easier reference than going through the list of tournaments trying to find ones that are close by.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Matt Weiner » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:01 pm

erkifish26 wrote:Would anybody be down with helping me compile a complete regional calendar? It would be an easier reference than going through the list of tournaments trying to find ones that are close by.
If you add all the tournaments to http://www.hsquizbowl.org/tdb you can then search by state or by distance from any location.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:19 pm

I don't have a calendar, but I do know of basically all of the tournaments in the area.
Princeton is on Oct. 11
Goldfish Tournament is Oct. 15 (I definitely recommend the Goldfish, despite the criticism it received, it was an extremely cheap, convenient and enjoyable experience for our team).
LIFT is Oct. 18th
Rutgers is Nov. 15th
Hunter will run a tournament at some point, maybe in January, check for updates.
Upenn is running a tournament at some point in November
Temple in Philly ran a tournament last year but I don't know if they'll run it again
HHHW runs a tournament in January, again, check for updates
Spring Goldfish
New York State Championship (I don't know if they are running it this year, it was kind of a last minute deal last year)
Chatham runs an end of year tournament in May

A lot depends on how far you're willing to travel. Would you be willing to go to say Philadelphia? Boston? The D.C. area? In either case, with the large number of tournaments at White Plains plus all these other tournaments in NYC area, you should have plenty to keep yourself busy. Just check the forum a once or twice a week to so if any tournaments are being announced.

Hope that helps!
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:28 pm

I believe Kyle has had a long-standing wish to see Byram Hills at HFT. If you'd be willing to travel to Boston, we'd be glad to help you arrange things. If your budget is tight, fees are negotiable, as with most all reputable tournaments.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by erkifish26 » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:53 pm

I don't think you understand how much I'd love to attend HFT ... who is this Kyle and how do I contact him?!?!
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:59 pm

You can contact me at andy.watkins2@gmail.com. Also, see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5480.

We hope to see you there!
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:13 pm

Any new thoughts about after Princeton?

I was surprised that Stuy got to the finals, I knew with Aidan they would still be good, but I didn't realize they would be this competitive.

East Brunswick also seems pretty legit, and it appears like they're starting to attend more tournaments, which is definitely good to see (but not so good for other teams at tournament, they can be a real force)

Also, HHHW seemed pretty good although that was kind of expected...

Before Nick makes a post saying that I didn't bring it up, Bloomfield seems like it is definitely on the rise. At 4-2 (or maybe 5-2 without the weird scheduling) I don't know if they are yet a top team in the region, but they could easily be in a couple of months. It's good you guys found an advisor that prefers quiz bowl over glow in the dark day.

Other things:
State College was the #1 seed, what happened to them in the playoffs? How about Seton Halls new A team.

And finally, congrats to Bergen A for winning. I know there were some doubts that they would be somewhat weaker this year but clearly that is not true. By the way...who was on Bergen A (I'm guessing Watson, Gabe, Sib, and someone else....)?
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:21 pm

I wasn't going to point it out if you didn't bring us up, besides I need to find teammates to help me as the whole flying solo thing is not going to work out in the end. Anyways, I asked Zinsmeister about what happened to his A team, and I'm also curious as to what happened to State College.

If I had to say though, NJ (Excluding NY) is down this year. Without Seton Hall Prep (assuming this was not some kind of fluke) the quality takes a sharp downturn. Of course, I have yet to see Pingry A yet, so that may change my mind. And who knows if East Brunswick will continue to attend tournaments at a regular rate. I hope they will but who knows. I'll be interested to see what happens at SKIT, see some of you on the 15th.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:39 pm

If I had to rerank...

1. Hunter
2. Kellenberg/Bergen
3. Stuyvesant
4. HHHW A
5. Seton Hall Prep
6. East Brunswick (Could easily move up if they decide to show up to tournaments.
7. Millburn
8. Livingston A
9. High Tech
10. Bloomfield

I'd say, 1 is a step above 2-4, 2-4 are around the same skill level and I think any of them could beat the other, 5-7 are at the same level, Millburn maybe could move up farther, Livingston is at another step, then High Tech and us. In other words:

Hunter
-
Kellenberg
Bergen
Stuyvesant
HHHW A
-
Seton Hall Prep
East Brunswick
Millburn
-
-
Livingston A
-
-
High Tech
Bloomfield.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:47 pm

Hmmmm...this looks more or less reasonable. Although....

I think east brunswick is a definite step above seton hall, simply judging by how the two teams fared at princeton.
We still haven't seen a good number of teams yet (in particular New Rochelle, Byram Hills and other schools from the region)
We also have seen some interesting matchups like Hunter-Bergen, Hunter-Kellenberg, Bergen-Kellenberg which will reveal who is the real deal.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:50 pm

aarcoh wrote:Hmmmm...this looks more or less reasonable. Although....

I think east brunswick is a definite step above seton hall, simply judging by how the two teams fared at princeton.
We still haven't seen a good number of teams yet (in particular New Rochelle, Byram Hills and other schools from the region)
We also have seen some interesting matchups like Hunter-Bergen, Hunter-Kellenberg, Bergen-Kellenberg which will reveal who is the real deal.
Replying purely to the E. Brunswick, Seton Hall point, my whole issue is, will East Brunswick continue to come to tournaments? I mean, they came to last year's Princeton, but then never showed up again until States, as well as not going to Nationals as far as I know. I cannot in good conscious rank a team that high who never shows up. However, if they truly are going to QUAC, and possibly other tournaments, my view will change quickly.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:01 pm

Last year East Brunswick did attend NAQT nationals where they finished tied for 17th. They also attended Princeton, States and Chatham. I too was curious about East Brunswick's absence at many tournaments. Apparently the school district is having budget problems (big surprise there) so clubs like quiz bowl have a hard time getting funds. Should we really think less of a team simply because there school's administration doesn't know how to manage money when the players are just as talented and enthusiastic as any other school?

On that note, perhaps East Brunswick's success last season (winning States, a pretty good finish at Nationals) has convinced there administration that quiz bowl deserves some more funding. Hopefully.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:05 pm

Valid point, but still I'm keeping SHP where they are for now unless trends continue to say otherwise.

Also Aaron, check my announcement thread, I asked for your contact info for question writing and such.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:07 pm

I just sent you an email.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheKingInYellow » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:03 am

Ah, the Princeton Tournament. That was just a bad game. We hadn't actually played a competitive game at that point, they were all blow outs, and this was our first round playing a close match (as a team this entire season). There were perhaps eight or nine buzzer races during the round, and a number of iffy negs, and we just couldn't get a rhythm down.

As for New York,
Stuyvesant looks very NAQT competent, although I'm not sure how they'll perform at college written or PACE.
I had no idea Livingston was thought so highly of.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:18 am

That was just a bad game.
This is of course why single elimination is such a bad format. In the end you guys wound up finishing in the same place as a bunch of other teams that I'm sure you were better than. I was actually curious to see a Bergen-State College match, but was denied of such a privilege. Curse you single elimination!!
I had no idea Livingston was thought so highly of.
What? I don't think we ever mentioned that. Yeah Livingston might be a top ten team in NJ but that's not saying much since overall the state has gotten weaker.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheKingInYellow » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:40 am

Haha, don't worry about New Jersey; I'm not sure Pennsylvania even has enough schools to make a top ten
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:03 pm

TheKingInYelliow wrote:Haha, don't worry about New Jersey; I'm not sure Pennsylvania even has enough schools to make a top ten
State College, Moravian, Shady Side, Freedom...?
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Fucitol » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:15 pm

TheKingInYelliow wrote:Ah, the Princeton Tournament. That was just a bad game. We hadn't actually played a competitive game at that point, they were all blow outs, and this was our first round playing a close match (as a team this entire season). There were perhaps eight or nine buzzer races during the round, and a number of iffy negs, and we just couldn't get a rhythm down.
Is there a way to guard against this ? Last year, we had a LOT of tournaments where we cruised through the prelims, even 1 where we were the 1 seed, and then we got beaten by a decent(not great) team in the first round.

EDIT: Do energy drinks make it better or worse
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Sir Thopas » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:26 pm

Glacierguy1 wrote:EDIT: Do energy drinks make it better or worse
I'm one of the only quizbowlers who doesn't drink coffee or excessive amounts of soda or energy drinks or anything during tournaments (or ever), and I'm also one of the only people who wasn't completely dead after Chicago Open. Make of that what you will.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:44 pm

Guy, you didn't go to IHOP at like 4AM either, right?
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Sir Thopas » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:55 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Free Energy wrote:Guy, you didn't go to IHOP at like 4AM either, right?
Fair enough. I've noticed this to happen often, though, with members of my own team and some others as well.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheKingInYellow » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:14 pm

Glacierguy1 wrote: Is there a way to guard against this ? Last year, we had a LOT of tournaments where we cruised through the prelims, even 1 where we were the 1 seed, and then we got beaten by a decent(not great) team in the first round.

EDIT: Do energy drinks make it better or worse
I think the best way to deal would be round robin, that's how the Harvard tournament worked last year, and it seemed to run pretty smoothly. If that's not practical, double elimination would be nice. In my experience, team rhythm/morale plays a bigger part in it that energy drinks.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:22 pm

Yeah, round robin really is the way to go.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:26 pm

What would you say is the ideal number of teams for a championship bracket round robin?
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:27 pm

6-8 teams
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by SHP Pirate » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:01 pm

Having now seen a number of the teams in NY/NJ, I think that it is safe to say that Hunter is the team to beat. Today, at LIFT, Guy was just playing at a different level than everyone else. Do not forget that Hunter B finished in 3rd place with Lily finishing third in scoring. Right now, in my opinion, they are the dominant team. While I was hoping to see a Bergen/Hunter match-up, Watson was not able to attend today. However, Bergen, with Gabe, Ian, and Jay, were still very impressive. STUY perplexes me. I would love to know what happened last week at Princeton and how they managed to drop a game in the prelims today. I wouldl like to see more of STUY beforing comenting further, but I would consider them a very strong 3rd/4th team. While I have not yet seen Kellenberg play, I am still confident that they will come together as the season progresses.

One last note ... Half Hollow Hills played at LIFT today and posted a 5-2 prelim record which precluded them from playing in the final bracket. Unfortunately for them, they lost back-to-back games on the final question of the round. Based upon ppg, they were the number three or four team after prelims. What is impressive about that is that they were missing both of their strongest players. I think that HHHW, when playing at full strength, could be "dark-horse" team in the region.

Who is planning to attend Rutgers? I have yet to register SHP, but I will be doing so either tonight or tomorrow. I am just curious how the field will look. (I know that Hunter and Kellenberg will be heading to Harvard.)

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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Fucitol » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:09 pm

I read for Bergen and they were vastly more impressive than I expected to be without Watson.

Guy out-powered every other team at the tournament... I looked at the scoresheet and my mouth gaped.

If HHHW could go 5-2 without their 2 best players, than they could probably have made the playoffs, possibly 7-0.

This region is going to be a tight race this year with the probable exception of Guy.

I also think that Mr. Z should be given credit for getting 2 teams into the playoffs after graduating most of his A team and part of his B team. I thought that this might be a rebuilding year, and if it is, they certainly won't be pushovers.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:29 pm

Hey...who was on Bergen?
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by SHP Pirate » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:49 pm

As I said above ... Gabe, Ian, and Jay. Gabe was the strongest generalist, Ian was very strong in math/science, and Jay also actively contributed as well. Throw Watson into that trio and I would like to see what could happen.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:50 pm

Wait....who's Jay?
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by SHP Pirate » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:52 pm

Apparently this was his first tournament. In the rounds I read for BCA, he seemed to play fairly well.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:49 am

Bloomfield is more than likely going to Rutgers, not sure who else.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by gabjoh » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:43 pm

SHP Pirate wrote:Having now seen a number of the teams in NY/NJ, I think that it is safe to say that Hunter is the team to beat. Today, at LIFT, Guy was just playing at a different level than everyone else. Do not forget that Hunter B finished in 3rd place with Lily finishing third in scoring. Right now, in my opinion, they are the dominant team. While I was hoping to see a Bergen/Hunter match-up, Watson was not able to attend today. However, Bergen, with Gabe, Ian, and Jay, were still very impressive. STUY perplexes me. I would love to know what happened last week at Princeton and how they managed to drop a game in the prelims today. I wouldl like to see more of STUY beforing comenting further, but I would consider them a very strong 3rd/4th team. While I have not yet seen Kellenberg play, I am still confident that they will come together as the season progresses.
Agreed about Hunter; thank you for the compliment about us. Stuyvesant made it to the final game at Princeton, where our team beat them. They returned the favor yesterday in the semifinals, however.
One last note ... Half Hollow Hills played at LIFT today and posted a 5-2 prelim record which precluded them from playing in the final bracket. Unfortunately for them, they lost back-to-back games on the final question of the round. Based upon ppg, they were the number three or four team after prelims. What is impressive about that is that they were missing both of their strongest players. I think that HHHW, when playing at full strength, could be "dark-horse" team in the region.
Yeah, they gave us our closest match at Princeton; it came down to the last question.
Who is planning to attend Rutgers? I have yet to register SHP, but I will be doing so either tonight or tomorrow. I am just curious how the field will look. (I know that Hunter and Kellenberg will be heading to Harvard.)
We are. Probably; I gotta speak to my team about that.

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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by gabjoh » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:47 pm

aarcoh wrote:Wait....who's Jay?
He's a junior in Med, really good at biology, his specialty is science. The thing with him is that he has the Columbia SHP, and is also doing Model UN, so he'll probably only be able to go to one other tournament this year, in the spring.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:27 pm

Any other confirmed teams going to SKIT besides us and Seton Hall? I assume East Brunswick will also be there.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by SHP Pirate » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:29 pm

Millburn (x2), Colonia (x2), High Tech, MAST (x2), Livingston (x2), JFK, Old Bridge (x2), Northern Valley Regional, Lenape Valley (x2), Middletown North (x2), Bloomfield (x2), St. Peter's Prep (x2), SHP (x2), East Brunswick (x2), Mount St. Mary, Chatham, Teaneck.

However, Jason sent an e-mail to SHP/Livingston asking for third teams. Thus, I assume that someone has dropped. If any coaches have extra players, please let Jason know.

It will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.

- MTZ
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:46 pm

Bloomfield will definitely have extras for a scab team, I'll send an email now.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:24 am

So what wound up happening at Rutgers?
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:24 pm

aarcoh wrote:So what wound up happening at Rutgers?
I'd like to know as well, since it seems Keller wants to hold the statstics hostage.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by SHP Pirate » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:46 pm

Jason e-mailed prelim stats today. The top-four seeds were 1-East Brunswick (8-0), 2-SHP (8-0), 3-Pingry (7-1), and 4-BCA (7-1). In the prelim bracket round-robin, BCA lost to Pingry ... hence the seedings. BCA defetes East Brunswick in the first semi and SHP defeated Pingry in the other. BCA defeated SHP in the finals 330-120. I do not have any other playoff scores.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by gstoye » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:25 pm

Stats are up on the NAQT site.
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:11 pm

Midyear Rankings:

1. Hunter
2. Stuyvesant
3. Bergen/Kellenberg
5. East Brunswick/HHHW
7. Livingston A
8. Seton Hall Prep A
9. Livingston B/C?
10. Pingry
11. Chatham
12. Millburn
13. Hi Tech
14. Bloomfield
15. Hunter B (Only here due to lack of competition and me not seeing them)
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:59 pm

A couple of things....
Bergen should probably be higher than Stuy, since Bergen with Watson beat stuy 400-30 (without Watson they lost by about 100 points)
Hunter B should definitely be higher, maybe around 5-7
Seton Hall should be higher than Livingston
Other than that it looks reasonable
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by SHP Pirate » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:55 pm

Assuming that all teams are playing at full strength ...

1. Hunter
2. Bergen
3. STUY
4-6. HHHW/East Brunswick/Kellenberg
7-8. SHP/Hunter B
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by Fucitol » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:45 pm

Does anyone know anything about the Leonia format?
Or what teams are going?
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Re: NY/NJ 2008-2009

Post by TheCzarMan » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:48 pm

Glacierguy1 wrote:Does anyone know anything about the Leonia format?
Or what teams are going?
Um, information on that? I haven't heard anything about a competition there...
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