Kentucky 08-09

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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by akinney »

soaringeagle22 wrote:We went to the Brescia Academic Tournament today and we had questions that were pure Quick Recall and reminescent of what Gov Cup questions were 3 or 4 years ago, which made me realize how much KAAC has changed the questions in the last couple years to have a somewhat pyramidal element in them. I like the in-between because it preserves the Quick Recall format while also making for better questions.

Anyway, rather than debate this, anyone want to chime in on how they think the Districts and Regions will go. I think ours (District 12 and Region 3) are complete and total tossups between multiple teams this year.
Yeah, good job with the designating, Nick. It won you the game. If Grayson even makes it to state you will be called on those dirty tactics.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by dbarman »

Any predictions for Gov Cup?
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Andrew from jc »

Right now I'm just hoping that we get to do it this weekend, since all the snow decided to arrive this weekend.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by dbarman »

true that.
but Snow Days!!!!
3 of them yea
Last edited by dbarman on Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

I have a feeling that FPS and English Comp will be delayed from tomorrow to either Thursday or even later, at least in some parts of the state.

How this Saturday goes depends on some melting and a little luck. Anyone else think we might ought to move the whole Governor's Cup format a little later in the year (possibly mid Feb District, early March Region, late March State) to avoid some of these weather issues? We have problems with snow every single year.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by dbarman »

does anyone know anything about district?
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Coach K »

Here's what John Bennett posted on KAAC's site:

http://kaac.com/govcup/isitjuneyet.html

Sounds like we're supposed to take as much time as we need to make sure it gets done and everyone is safe.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by AKKOLADE »

That is a fantastic file name.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Andrew from jc »

FredMorlan wrote:That is a fantastic file name.
I'm starting to wish it was now.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by AKKOLADE »

King Solomon's Bling wrote:
FredMorlan wrote:That is a fantastic file name.
I'm starting to wish it was now.
You and me, both.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Andrew from jc »

ah, warm and toasty now. Finally have power for the first time since tuesday.
Last edited by Andrew from jc on Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by FCPanther »

I know we're going to try and get our district in tomorrow Fleming Co, Paris, and Bourbon Co.(at least QR and the tests, FPS/comp will be delayed until late next week).

Anyone else going to try and get things in tomorrow?
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Macks Well »

Pike County's district is tomorrow. We'll be getting ours over with.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by dbarman »

dunbar's district is not. hopefully it'll be monday or tuesday
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Andrew from jc »

Our's at Central have been postponed till next Saturday due to the Mass power outages and side roads being terrible
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Beastman »

Grayson County's district is way up in the air. Grayson and Edmonson have been hit reeeaaalllly hard. Just got power back today. And we are using our high school and two other schools in the county as emergency shelters. The high school has 500 people in it. We don't have school until further notice. So, chances are we won't all next week and part of the next week. The situation here is improving, but is still terrible.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

Well, now that District is over for just about everyone, any predictions for Regional?
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Scott »

I believe that in our region (3):

Quick recall is pretty much a tossup.
The front-runners are Grayson, Edmonson, Davies and Owensborow.
However Henderson could easily grab a top 4 spot.

Just for reference:

-Grayson has,
*Beaten Davies by around 15, but also lost by about this amount.
*Beaten Henderson twice.
*Lost to Owensborow once, but also beaten them by over 20.
*Beaten Edmonson 3X, but they could very easily beat us.
-Davies has beaten Owensborow multiple times.

This shows that pretty much anything could happen.

As for overall,
I think Apollo will do well in math, but will get no points from QR.
Grayson has the potential to get 3 firsts, but thats about it.
Davies could get a first or two, as well as several other placements.
Owensborow should do well in math, and may place in additional subjects.
Edmonson could place someone almost anywhere.
Henderson could take first in a few areas as well.
After these schools, some others may do well. (Perhaps Catholic or Hancock?)

In the end it will be a battle between six schools, all with similar chances of winning.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by NORACONVERSE »

Our regionals for FPS and written comp are tomorrow. -all excitable-
I've not got any real predictions, but good luck to everyone and omg,
-spazzes- <33 It's gonna be so much fun, for real. I love this stuff.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by at your pleasure »

Some of us do not enjoy having to read small type.

Member was tempbanned for three days for backseat modding.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

NORACONVERSE wrote:Our regionals for FPS and written comp are tomorrow. -all excitable-
I've not got any real predictions, but good luck to everyone and omg,
-spazzes- <33 It's gonna be so much fun, for real. I love this stuff.
:capybara:
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

Well, regionals were fun. I've noticed some big upsets throughout the state, namely Dunbar and Manual going down. I knew Henry Clay and KCD were good this year, but that still surprised me. Just means that some regional champions are going to get some very disappointing draws. I would hate to be the team winning a region only to be informed you drew Dunbar for a first round opponent.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by dbarman »

i dunno, we've been laying off Gov Cup QR and doing better at true pyramidal events. (I'm not buying Gov Cup's claim that it's pyramidal)
I think it's just a shift of focus off QR and more on NAQT, PACE type things, so it might not be that terrible a thing to play us at State
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Beastman »

Region was a little ridiculous this year to be perfectly honest. It was just really awkward. Edmonson isn't going to State, Grayson is. And a team with no Quick Recall won overall. That blew my mind. Just, really awkward. I look forward to perhaps going through a few rounds of state. Haha.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Faiyad »

QR at region and district were supposed to be regular,
But State is supposed to be Pyramidal (God I hope so...)
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Macks Well »

I thought region went very nicely, actually. The quick recall was more what I was used to.
Plus, a couple of rounds even let us return to the good ol' sewing machine-pedal buzzers. :D
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Andrew from jc »

dbarman wrote:i dunno, we've been laying off Gov Cup QR and doing better at true pyramidal events. (I'm not buying Gov Cup's claim that it's pyramidal)
I think it's just a shift of focus off QR and more on NAQT, PACE type things, so it might not be that terrible a thing to play us at State
Ping, Your guys tournement is still going to be on the 7th, right?
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by dbarman »

yea, if enough teams come.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

I hate to bring this up since it's a pretty sad story, but is anyone else following the controversy over Russell's team? According to WSAZ-TV and the Ashland Daily Independent, they manipulated the weather rule and are now being investigated. At this point, I feel bad for that entire region, because their Governor's Cup experience (for the seniors, their last) will be less fun because everything was all split up and there would be less time to get to know people from other teams.

I guess this explains why the Region 16 results haven't been posted yet, and probably has something to do with the High School Quick Recall draw not being up yet.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by powerplant »

soaringeagle22 wrote:I hate to bring this up since it's a pretty sad story, but is anyone else following the controversy over Russell's team? According to WSAZ-TV and the Ashland Daily Independent, they manipulated the weather rule and are now being investigated. At this point, I feel bad for that entire region, because their Governor's Cup experience (for the seniors, their last) will be less fun because everything was all split up and there would be less time to get to know people from other teams.

I guess this explains why the Region 16 results haven't been posted yet, and probably has something to do with the High School Quick Recall draw not being up yet.
From what I've heard Knupp has been suspended from coaching until the end of March by the school. The KAAC is expected to deliver it's ruling on who goes to state later today.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

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soaringeagle22 wrote:I hate to bring this up since it's a pretty sad story, but is anyone else following the controversy over Russell's team? According to WSAZ-TV and the Ashland Daily Independent, they manipulated the weather rule and are now being investigated. At this point, I feel bad for that entire region, because their Governor's Cup experience (for the seniors, their last) will be less fun because everything was all split up and there would be less time to get to know people from other teams.

I guess this explains why the Region 16 results haven't been posted yet, and probably has something to do with the High School Quick Recall draw not being up yet.
What is the weather rule, and why?
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Andrew from jc »

Here's an article from the Ashland Independent about the Controversy.

Edit: It explains about the weather rule

http://www.dailyindependent.com/schools ... 24311.html
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by AKKOLADE »

A too long, didn't read version, which I hope will be reviewed by people in the know:

* KAAC's Governor Cup regionals (which is both Quick Recall (aka quiz bowl) and all those tests and things they take) is scheduled for Feb. 21
* Russell is scheduled to go to one of these regionals against their assigned opponents
* Russell doesn't go
* Russell says it's because of inclement weather making their bus honcho declaring no buses shall be on the road that day (at least until 11 a.m.)
* Other people say it's actually because one Russell kid couldn't make it, and Russell was just using the weather thing as an excuse
* According to a second article (linked to below), the written tests of the competition started at 9 and were scheduled to end at 11 a.m. That's either fishy or a coincidence.
* Other teams would have to make the trip once more. Example Morgan County High School to Boyd County High School. The former is about an hour east of Lexington it looks like. The latter is virtually in West Virginia (it's bordering Huntington, home of Marshall University). That's an hour and a half trip. Now, I've made longer trips before, but depending on what your budget set up is, how much funding you have, if you have to get buses... that can be costly. Plus, you have the whole "3 hours round trip wasted, plus however long they waited" issue to consider.
* Seven other teams have filed complaints with the KAAC.

Oh, and Matt Knupp has been suspended from coaching pending an investigation, according to the same newspaper.

Apparently some are asking for the suspension of the Russell team. This is something I don't agree with - punish Matt Knupp if he did something wrong here, but let the kids play (except for any that are actually culpable for screwing with this).

This continues what might be the worst month in quiz bowl ethics of recent memory.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

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FredMorlan wrote: This continues what might be the worst month in quiz bowl ethics of recent memory.
At ACF Regionals, I will crush one kitten's skull per buzzer race lost. You can ask anyone: I have plenty of kittens.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

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There are some dramatic comments in this article. http://www.wsaz.com/home/headlines/4023 ... l#comments
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by AKKOLADE »

KAAC has issued their announcement.

This is the most notable part:
Rulings regarding Mr. Knupp, Russell High School and Region 16:
1. Mr. Knupp is hereby banned from attending future KAAC events in any capacity—coach, official or spectator.
The Quick Recall team was unaffected, as was FPS & Composition. Individuals will be allowed to advance to state, but there's no team reward.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by aestheteboy »

Why couldn't the tournament director just declare that Russell had forfeited by not showing and just run the tournament with one team missing? That seems like the only logical thing to do, rather than to penalize all the teams that came out from far away just because one team tried to cheat with the rules.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

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aestheteboy wrote:Why couldn't the tournament director just declare that Russell had forfeited by not showing and just run the tournament with one team missing? That seems like the only logical thing to do, rather than to penalize all the teams that came out from far away just because one team tried to cheat with the rules.
Because it's the "official" state tournament structure, they try to work around weather conditions when they are present. My understanding is that Mr. Knupp presented it as a weather concern and they only determined later that it was not.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by dbarman »

aestheteboy wrote:Why couldn't the tournament director just declare that Russell had forfeited by not showing and just run the tournament with one team missing? That seems like the only logical thing to do, rather than to penalize all the teams that came out from far away just because one team tried to cheat with the rules.
Daichi,
this wasn't a normal tournament, it was a structured "state championship" regionals thing. so everything had to be "official" according to random rules established by KAAC.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by AKKOLADE »

So I did a bit of research and found this rule in p.25 of the coaches manual:

"A coach may demand that a District or Regional competition be postponed if someone in an administrative position (Asst. Principal, Principal, Transportation Director, Asst. Superintendent,
Superintendent, etc.) confirms to the host school Contest Manager or designee that travel is unsafe."

I assume that in this case, Knupp either had or claimed that the Transportation Director or equivalent said they couldn't go. Apparently, doing so can cause the entire competition to be delayed or canceled.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Macks Well »

So apparently, if the Russel testers' written assesmets are scored high enough for state, they will go. They won't represent the school, but will only be there for personal glory, apparently.
This could make things...interesting, to say the least.

And say what you will about his ethics; Mr. Knupp was a good coach. Every team he's been with has been very successful. It's really a shame to see this happen. I've always liked Mr. Knupp and had a great rapport with him. I'm sure many, many of you can say the same. It's really unfortunate that he made the decisions he did.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by dbarman »

wait, so russell's kids can compete, except it wouldn't count. Ouch.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by a n o n y m o u s »

All the kids get punished because of this, it's just not right......

I don't know what I would do it this same situation would happen to us.

I would really like to see somebody from Russell place 1st in something at state this year. Even though it wouldn't count for anything, it would be a great story.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by AKKOLADE »

a n o n y m o u s wrote:All the kids get punished because of this, it's just not right......
No, they get to compete for personal placement. It's just that Russell High School as a team doesn't get credit for their points. I think that's pretty fair.

Also, you are really bad at being anonymous. :grin:
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by akinney »

I have played against Knupp's teams and I will say they were always very good and sportsmanlike. Knupp and his team always had great chemistry and we could always tell they were well coached. Knupp himself represented his school well and I liked him. I also took note of his undying will to win. I'm sorry to hear that this happened. The KAAC State tournament will be strange without him.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by czhang »

I can only speak from my personal experience.

Mr. Knupp was my Junior Varsity coach for two years. Without his guidance and direction, I would have been half the player I was. In the classroom, Mr. Knupp was one of the best math teachers I had. He understood his subject and taught in an engaging and informative manner.

Mr. Knupp was always a tough competitor. While competing, I was confident he would prepare us so we would have every advantage possible. However, I never observed any action violating the letter or the spirit of the rules. For coaches, the pressure to win is intense. I can imagine it only becomes more intense when your school is in the running for 1st and the difference could easily come down to one or two overall points.

This whole episode is very saddening. However, I still consider Mr. Knupp my good friend, teacher, and mentor.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by a n o n y m o u s »

FredMorlan wrote:Also, you are really bad at being anonymous.
I tried.......
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by scquizbowl »

Wow, I couldn't believe it when I saw it. Mr. Knupp is a great coach, one of the best in the SE. He has taken his team into a regional powerhouse, competing against the best teams in the South and the nation. He is a very nice guy (with his teaching at ACE camp), and he is one of the good characters in the quiz bowl circuit.

His teams always play with class, and we've played them (James Island) several times at many tournaments (Raleigh Charter, Brookwood, I believe, Dorman last month), and they have competed with us, making them not an easy out for anybody (even the big boys).

I still think he should be punished for it, as he shouldn't have delayed the tournament for two hours, and I understand what the other teams think, with KY being such a big state. But there should not a full suspension of the team, and an outright banning of Mr. Knupp from any KAAC tournament (which basically takes his prime job away) all because of a mistake he made.

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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Sir Thopas »

scquizbowl wrote:I still think he should be punished for it, as he shouldn't have delayed the tournament for two hours, and I understand what the other teams think, with KY being such a big state. But there should not a full suspension of the team, and an outright banning of Mr. Knupp from any KAAC tournament (which basically takes his prime job away) all because of a mistake he made.
Dude. He didn't just delay the tournament two hours. The entire written section was delayed, forcing 200 teams or so to make the trip over again. Some came from a couple of hours away and probably can't be funded to make the trip again. And all for a lie.
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Re: Kentucky 08-09

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

Well, the brackets for State are finally up:

http://kaac.com/state/HSPoolAssignments-09.pdf

Some good first round matchups this year. I wish I could watch Henry Clay vs. Johnson Central, Ballard vs. Manual, and Simon Kenton vs. Dunbar. We look to have a competitive pool too. Does anyone know much about Fleming County or Ashland Blazer?
Nicholas C
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