The Quizbowl Resource Center

dinoian wrote:The message I was trying to send out is exactly the same as the tournament announcement, I'll forward that to you tomorrow if you want.

Please send me the exact message as it was rejected, and I'll see what's going on tomorrow.

My teammate (and a recent e-mail) has just brought to my attention that La Jolla has not been listed as qualified for the NAQT Chicago Nationals, even though we took third place at both UCLA and Caltech, and were awarded as such. At UCLA, in a field of 18 teams, rounding up, we were definitely within top 15%.

Are there scoring errors that I did not take into account? Does anyone have any information regarding this, or should I contact Micah at Caltech and Chris at UCLA to see what they have to say on this? o_o;; I would really like to get this cleared up, since we were operating under the assumption that we had qualified, and this indeed comes as a shock.

-Kaisuopai

I'd think you'd want to get NAQT's contact information from www.naqt.com .

Fred, thank you for the bit of common sense. ^^;;; I went to NAQT and found http://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament-te ... nt_id=2737, which was somewhat shocking, as we had definitely taken third place at UCLA's Twain IX. I think it is a records-keeping issue; some teams, like us, had one loss listed twice, which killed our record...

I have contacted Chris and hope for this issue to be resolved quickly; however, I would like to ask if members of other teams who attended Twain IX would be able to support my assumption that we did indeed take third (I have the books to show for it, too... ._.)

-Kai

Hurrah! I have puzzled through the UCLA TWAIN Stats and pieced together how this tournament went!

Prelim Bracket A (aka "Stacked" bracket)
Arcadia A 8-0
Rancho Bernardo A 6-2 (losses to LJ, Arcadia)
La Jolla A 5-3 (losses to Arcadia, TP, RB B)
Torrey Pines A 5-3 (losses to Arcadia, RB A, RB B)
Edison 4-4 (losses to four teams above)
Rancho Bernardo B 4-4 (losses to Arcadia, RB A, Edison, Carlsbad)
Carlsbad 3-5 (victories over RB B and below two teams)
Arcadia B 1-7
Rancho Alamitos 0-8

Prelim Bracket B (aka "Non-Stacked" bracket)
Santa Monica 8-0
San Dieguito 7-1
Arcadia C 6-2
Hart 5-3
La Jolla B 4-4
Rancho Bernardo D 3-5
Torrey Pines B 2-6
Rancho Bernardo C 1-7
Laguna Beach 0-8

The field was then divided into 3 brackets of 6 where teams only played teams from the other prelim bracket. La Jolla A won some kind of tiebreaker over Torrey Pines A.

Top Bracket:
Arcadia A 3-0, 5-0 versus teams in top bracket, overall 11-0 (tournament winners)
Santa Monica 2-1, 4-1 versus teams in top bracket, overall 10-1 (tournament runners-up)
La Jolla A 2-1, 3-2 versus teams in top bracket, overall 7-4
San Dieguito 1-2, 2-3 versus teams in top bracket, overall 8-3
Rancho Bernardo A 1-2, 1-4 versus teams in top bracket, overall 7-4
Arcadia C 0-3, 0-5 versus teams in top bracket, overall 6-5

Middle Bracket*:
Torrey Pines A 3-0, 4-1 versus teams in middle bracket, overall 8-3
La Jolla B 2-1, 3-2 versus teams in middle bracket, overall 6-5
Rancho Bernardo B 2-1, 3-2 versus teams in middle bracket, overall 6-5
Rancho Bernardo D 1-2, 1-4 versus teams in middle bracket, overall 4-7
Hart 0-2, 2-2 versus teams in middle bracket, overall 5-5
Edison 0-2, 1-3 versus teams in middle bracket, overall 4-6

*Edison appears to have left after round 10 of the tournament and was credited with a forfeit loss, while Hart left after round 9 and was not credited with any forfeit losses. This scenario attributes forfeit losses to Hart for rounds that they did not play (note that one game is lost due to Edison and Hart mutually forfeiting)

Bottom Bracket:
Torrey Pines B 3-0, 5-0 versus teams in bottom bracket, overall 5-6
Carlsbad 2-1, 4-1 versus teams in bottom bracket, overall 5-6
Rancho Bernardo C 2-1, 3-2 versus teams in bottom bracket, overall 3-8
Arcadia B 1-2, 2-3 versus teams in bottom bracket, overall 2-9
Rancho Alamitos 1-2, 1-4 versus teams in bottom bracket, overall 1-10
Laguna Beach 0-3, 0-5 versus teams in bottom bracket, overall 0-11

Therefore, the mystery is whether UCLA's order of finish is based on (EDIT: overall record, playoff results, or record only against teams in the playoff bracket). Two different orders are then possible, one in which La Jolla is third and one in which La Jolla is fourth (note that the position of no other team changes in either of these scenarios EDIT: NOT TRUE. Positions of Hart/Edison/Rancho Bernardo D would also change based on which criteria were used in which order).

Since San Dieguito has already qualified for HSNCT (via CBCT), there is no apparent harm in removing San Dieguito's TWAIN qualification and awarding it instead to La Jolla A; this is what I am recommending to NAQT.

Dwight, have I ever told you how much I love you?

I'm extremely grateful that you actually went through all the stats to check, because I had no idea why we were suddenly sixth with two losses to RB B. So now it's up to NAQT...

-Kai

As a La Jolla alumnus (class of 2000), I am curious as to who is running the quizbowl team there these days.

According to the team website, which seems to be maintained by a current board user so I trust it, the coaches are Aaron Quesnell and Courtney Irwin.

As a La Jolla alumnus (class of 2000), I am curious as to who is running the quizbowl team there these days.

Coach Quesnell handles the paperwork and funding, and I handle the tournament scheduling, team practices, and whatnot. Coach Irwin's not been around lately: new baby.

Also, I haven't updated that website in like a year...I should really get back to it, but the problem is no one uses it.

-Kai

Hey Zhao or Anurag, was Baby Anteater Lucas' first tournament?

warpoet wrote:Hey Zhao or Anurag, was Baby Anteater Lucas' first tournament?

Given the same negtastic tendencies, I think Lucas played at least this, but I'll let the RB guys confirm. However, I think this was the first tournament for both North Hollywood teams. That's an impressive showing, even if it is on an A-series packet, and I hope they show up to BAIT.

I know there's a little bit of weirdness with the stats (33.75 ppb for University B in one game comes to mind). I was slightly disappointed in some of the questions (without giving specifics, there was one history bonus part that a hsquizbowl.org packet search turned up 0 times as an answer choice and another one that only showed up as a bonus answer at a single PACE NSC; neither of these strike me as particularly difficulty-appropriate for an NAQT A Set, and I'll be searching the board for Jeff's email address to let him know about it once this post is finished), but overall I think it fit the strength of the field (only one team below 10 ppb and one team over 20 ppb).

One encouraging sign was the clamor for more fine arts. I think teams will be pleasantly surprised when they show up to Triton Bowl and find that there's plenty of good fine arts and not as little pop culture as they think.

Anyway, I'll be down helping staff Triton Bowl, so I'll catch you all there (if not online before that).

A NoHo team was at CalTech this year

Hey Max. Baby Anteater was not Lucas's first tournament; I believe ZOT Bowl was his first.

The set was not as disappointing as I thought it would be (amazingly, I expected less than 3 art questions and 3 music questions). There were very questionable answer choices that reaffirms my belief that A sets are not easier than IS sets.

I just thought the packet was inconstant, some where really easy and others where just odd clues and a dead giveaway at the end.

I was also surprised by how short some of them where and the power lines on some went way too long.

It was an A set, and just the same way as most A sets are. Short questions, long powers, periodic strange questions/clues. For an A set, I thought it was surprisingly good, although I'm not sure I've ever seen so many baseball/football/some sport I couldn't identify.

Thanks again for running a good tournament.

Register for Arcadia Carnal Embrace
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6820
email Tracy ASAP

Hey SoCal people,
Does North Hollywood have a real team, and, if so, are they any good?
Thanks.

They do. They have one player who is pretty good. He beat down our C team 500 to something. I haven't played him, but he was making some good buzzes on the A set when I coached at Baby Anteater. Perhaps my teammates could elaborate.

I think North Hollywood this year has a chance to be what Carlsbad was last year - a relatively new team with some legit talent that took a tournament or two to get used to the format. One problem is that they're going to be a Science Bowl-first school, but I think Santa Monica is or was as well and look where they've gotten. In fact, I hope that they start to emulate Santa Monica (except for the mid-2000s Santa Monica behavior) and have one period they devote to anything ending in "Bowl."

Excitingly, I did get about 5 signups after advertising the SoCalHSQuizbowl google group at Baby Anteater. Perhaps we could advertise it again at Triton Bowl, or is everyone likely to attend Triton Bowl already on the list?

See you all Saturday.

So, after today's tournaments, I have some more thoughts on subjective rankings.

There were plenty of subjects, especially philosophy and social science, that felt new to a lot of teams today. For those of you who felt lost by these subjects, but want to get better at them, I'd encourage you to check out HSAPQ's 30 free rounds of ACF-formatted sets with plenty of philosophy, arts, and social science at hsapq.com.

Another barometer of success is comparing yourself to other teams nationally. Bonus conversion is an opponent-independent statistic, and can be more or less used to extrapolate how your team would have done at one of the other sites.

Prison Bowl (NY)
WJIAT (MD)
Triton Bowl (CA)

Without further ado, my rankings as of 2/21:
1. Rancho Bernardo
Is there any question, after today? This is a PACE NSC playoff team. This team will go as far as Anurag can take them. If Kevin and Alex shore up whatever weaknesses Zhao/Anurag might have and get up to the 10 ppg range, this team's a legitimate threat to challenge the East Coast powerhouses for the title - I don't think, at this point in the season, that they can win PACE, but there's still three months to go. At the lower levels, Lucas is a pretty good player for his inexperience; once he gets some of the stupid negging out of his system, he'll be a force to be reckoned with.

2. Santa Monica
Only here because they might be the only team in the area that can challenge a full-strength Rancho Bernardo at NAQT. I still haven't seen them play in person, but this is a team that always finds a way to end up near the top of the HSNCT standings, and I look for another high finish. At the lower levels, I'm not sure the talent pool goes as deep as it has in the past, but somehow Santa Monica always reloads, and there are no indications that won't happen next year.

3. Arcadia
They're here because they've overall had a more consistent season than Torrey Pines. Derek is a legitimate #1 player and he's got plenty of support. Probably an over .500 team at whichever national they end up at, but I'm not sure right now that they're a PACE playoff team or going deep in the HSNCT playoffs. Still, they've got a good work ethic and a coach that's been around long enough to know what he's doing and keep things in perspective; they could surprise some people. There's some decent talent at the lower levels, and they could be competitive for several years if they continue to show the drive this year's seniors have.

4. Torrey Pines
These guys were nowhere near this spot until today, when they proved they had legit knowledge to spare. Stephen-Vivek is a potent 1-2 combo, and the other guys contribute enough that you can't discount them. Their strengths are probably suited more to NSC, which, given that they somehow haven't qualified for HSNCT, I look for them to attend and do well at. Their lower levels are much further along than they were at the beginning of the year, but as Baby Anteater showed, they still have some work to do to get to that next level.

5. La Jolla
I don't think I've seen their full A team in person, but the stats I have seen indicate they're probably slightly better than the two below teams. Also, they could move people up from their sophomore(?) team and not lose a whole lot. I do hope they end up sending two teams to one of the nationals, as that lower team (A at Triton Bowl) has a real good base of knowledge to build on (see: 16+ bonus conversion at Triton Bowl).

6. Edison
Seemed a bit confused and out of sorts at the beginning of Triton Bowl (having to go overtime with a winless team), but got their act together toward the end and took down Arcadia with the tried-and-true tactic of outbuzzing them. The rather ugly 140-130 loss on the "Finals 1" packet indicates that both they and La Jolla have some work to do if they're going to be competitive on the national level this year. With two sophomores on the A team, they don't have the consistency of a Rancho Bernardo/Santa Monica/Arcadia, and I don't see them having a go-to player right now. Consistency issues and the lack of a true points-gobbling generalist or deep-knowledge specialist prevents me from moving them higher; their peak may not be for a couple of years.

7. San Dieguito
Another team that lacks consistency, though I'm not sure whether they were missing one of their regular A team at Triton Bowl. There are some times when I'm impressed by what they know, and other times, I'm wondering how this team could be missing easy parts of bonuses and brainfarting tossups. I don't see them as really a major nationals threat, but still a dangerous area team when they're on.

8. University
The other team to qualify for nationals goes here. I'm not sure they have the depth of knowledge to compete with the above seven teams, but to qualify for nationals in only your second real year of existence is pretty impressive. I think their top players are seniors, though, and I'm not sure how much is left in the tank for next year. Still, it's University; they'll be near the top eventually.

Honorable Mention: North Hollywood, Carlsbad. These are probably 9-10 in some order if I'm just ranking varsity programs, though Rancho Bernardo B, La Jolla B, and maybe Arcadia B or Santa Monica B would probably be ahead of them. These programs are still adapting to pyramidal-style quizbowl and I look for these teams to just keep getting better. I believe North Hollywood's most dominant player is a senior, so it's unfortunate that the community was deprived of a worthy competitor until this year, but I think North Hollywood B had some non-seniors(?) and they should continue the tradition of Science Bowl teams being good at science and learning the other stuff. Carlsbad's Triton Bowl bonus conversion was decent; this strikes me as another team with some knowledge that isn't used to the pyramidal style and consequently has difficulty figuring out the whole when-to-buzz thing. I'm also going to single out Rancho Alamitos as a team that, while not the greatest team in the world, shows up to just about everything, has a supportive coach that knows stuff and is passing the knowledge along, and has almost all their points coming from people who return next year. This year's certainly not their year, but if their best players put some work in, they could surprise people next year.

These rankings (especially the 2-4 and 5-7 slots) could change in the next couple of weeks, with Carnal Embrace providing a return to NAQT format and BAIT testing how much some teams have learned from the Triton Bowl experience. I look for NAQT State Champs to be quite competitive, especially if teams can field something approximating their A teams.

Hey I just want to mention how crazily awesome Dwight and Co. are, especially Dwight. Coming down from Irvine to help at a tournament they have no stake in. Running Zot Bowl over summer, running SCIENCE! before nationals. Round of applause please. He has put so much effort into making the SoCal circuit better.

I second this.

thirded

We missed you at Triton Bowl.

cvdwightw wrote:
4. Torrey Pines
These guys were nowhere near this spot until today, when they proved they had legit knowledge to spare. Stephen-Vivek is a potent 1-2 combo, and the other guys contribute enough that you can't discount them. Their strengths are probably suited more to NSC, which, given that they somehow haven't qualified for HSNCT, I look for them to attend and do well at. Their lower levels are much further along than they were at the beginning of the year, but as Baby Anteater showed, they still have some work to do to get to that next level.

Actually, our coach got us into HSNCT on a wildcard application, so that's where we're going. Apparently we can only attend one nationals due to our budget.
And just a thought: I think the inconsistency TP has experienced this season was due to the difficulty of getting our "real" A team together for tournaments. We've always been missing one person or another until yesterday.

Fourth it, to continue. You amaze me, Dwight.

I think you missed out, Max. Triton Bowl was great. I wish it hadn't conflicted with OSB.

gyre and gimble wrote:

cvdwightw wrote:
4. Torrey Pines
These guys were nowhere near this spot until today, when they proved they had legit knowledge to spare. Stephen-Vivek is a potent 1-2 combo, and the other guys contribute enough that you can't discount them. Their strengths are probably suited more to NSC, which, given that they somehow haven't qualified for HSNCT, I look for them to attend and do well at. Their lower levels are much further along than they were at the beginning of the year, but as Baby Anteater showed, they still have some work to do to get to that next level.

Actually, our coach got us into HSNCT on a wildcard application, so that's where we're going. Apparently we can only attend one nationals due to our budget.

Not a problem, just skip going to panasonic this year and attend PACE NSC instead.

Seriously, yesterday you guys showed just how well you shone on this format. PACE NSC will be just an awesome a set, and you'll be given more matches for your money's worth.

So as for stuff coming up, there's Carnal (can't go), BAIT (can't go) and State (not really)... is that it?

I fifth (its 5th now, right?) what Zhao said. Its gonna suck when/if Dwight leaves Socal =[

@Max: its ACE 2/28 (register! viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6820), BAIT 3/7 , StateChamps 4/18, and SCIENCE...can't find the thread/date. and then Nats, and yea...


After Triton Bowl, RanchoA has definately secured their place as #1 in SoCal. Being from Arcadia, I can't be an honest judge for #2-4. Arcadia A at full strength and Santa Monica at full strength is a close match on NAQT, but I don't know about mACF. TPA came out stronger than before at Triton Bowl, because, as Stephen said, they haven't had their full A-team at a tournament. La Jolla and Edison, and San Dieguito also always make strong showings at tournaments.

1) Rancho Bernardo
T2) Santa Monica
T2) Arcadia
4) La Jolla
5) Torrey Pines
6) Edison
7) San Dieguito

If you think your team is too low, try to prove me wrong by going to Carnal Embrace next week =D.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6820

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. I've still got several more years in grad school, and after that I'm probably going to try to stick around the area somewhere, so hopefully I won't turn into some kind of unwanted dinosaur over the next few years...

SCIENCE! is on May 16 and I will have a full announcement with fee structure and everything out this week (my guess is that I'll be writing it if I get bored in lab on Tuesday; otherwise it'll probably be out Tuesday night). I'm really trying to get people from the area colleges to come out, so we can use it as a recruiting/networking event as well.

gyre and gimble wrote:

cvdwightw wrote:
4. Torrey Pines
These guys were nowhere near this spot until today, when they proved they had legit knowledge to spare. Stephen-Vivek is a potent 1-2 combo, and the other guys contribute enough that you can't discount them. Their strengths are probably suited more to NSC, which, given that they somehow haven't qualified for HSNCT, I look for them to attend and do well at. Their lower levels are much further along than they were at the beginning of the year, but as Baby Anteater showed, they still have some work to do to get to that next level.

Actually, our coach got us into HSNCT on a wildcard application, so that's where we're going. Apparently we can only attend one nationals due to our budget.
And just a thought: I think the inconsistency TP has experienced this season was due to the difficulty of getting our "real" A team together for tournaments. We've always been missing one person or another until yesterday.

Attend NSC instead of HSNCT.

EDIT: Max, there's the MUT mirror.

ihavenoidea wrote:

gyre and gimble wrote:

cvdwightw wrote:
4. Torrey Pines
These guys were nowhere near this spot until today, when they proved they had legit knowledge to spare. Stephen-Vivek is a potent 1-2 combo, and the other guys contribute enough that you can't discount them. Their strengths are probably suited more to NSC, which, given that they somehow haven't qualified for HSNCT, I look for them to attend and do well at. Their lower levels are much further along than they were at the beginning of the year, but as Baby Anteater showed, they still have some work to do to get to that next level.

Actually, our coach got us into HSNCT on a wildcard application, so that's where we're going. Apparently we can only attend one nationals due to our budget.
And just a thought: I think the inconsistency TP has experienced this season was due to the difficulty of getting our "real" A team together for tournaments. We've always been missing one person or another until yesterday.

Attend NSC instead of HSNCT.

EDIT: Max, there's the MUT mirror.

I think it would be best that they drop attending panasonic (which is incredibly expensive for like 5? games of an uninteresting format), instead of dropping hsnct (where they can meet with college players from the college they might end up attending).

Yeah, I have no real stake in this beyond seeing the spread of good quizbowl and I would definitely say Auroni's plan sounds like the best - dropping Panasonic would probably be enough to pay for PACE and a few extra tournaments to boot, and it would deprive them even more funds and legitimacy. And the good news with PACE is that you can still make it into a tourist trip since the day after is memorial day in D.C.! So not every positive to Panasonic is lost.

ihavenoidea wrote:EDIT: Max, there's the MUT mirror.

This goes for all area high school teams-- BISCUIT III (MUT mirror) at UCLA on March 21 is designed for undergraduate and high school teams, and we welcome every team in the area. If there is sufficient interest, we will also name a high school champion. For BISCUIT details, see the main announcement at viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6829 . As noted there, we are interested in maximizing participation, so fees may be negotiable if your school cannot afford to attend otherwise.

We are also hosting Aztlan Cup V (FIChTE mirror) on March 22. While the tournament is clearly not designed for high school play, particularly strong players and school are welcome to attend. The Aztlan Cup announcement is at viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7289 .

auroni, you know how panasonic works at our school. I'll feel pretty uncomfortable asking, although I definitely prefer NSC.
But also, I don't want to be screwed by being away for 5 out of the 9 days before finals :)
that might bring us to the question of hsnct v nsc; killmar had us vote three weeks ago and everyone said chicago.
We had no idea how we would do on ACF format, and I still don't know if we were particularly better at it...maybe we did well just because everyone could go.
(to be honest, our season was extremely screwed up, and I don't know what to make of it.)

I don't think Torrey Pines will be going up north until state championships, and that's if killmar can find four people to go. she refuses to take less than 4.
I wish we could go to more tournaments.

I wish we could go to more tournaments.

I don't know what financial situation your team is in but my ususal instinct in this sort of situation is "Hitch a ride and go to the tournament anyways". Note that this primarily applies to tournaments within a reasonable distance of your school.

Do you always need your coach to go to tournaments? Our "coach" never accompanies us.

Do you always need your coach to go to tournaments? Our "coach" never accompanies us.

I'm going to guess that there is some kind of insurance issue. Certainly, our coach does not have any issues with us arranging trips to tournaments independently(she only drives us within a 60-mile radius of Whitman).

Anti-Climacus wrote:(she only drives us within a 60-mile radius of Whitman).

pfft 60 mile radius. That might get Torrey Pines to Irvine. Maybe.

Anyway, the issue with tournaments in the next couple of months is that all the spring breaks are staggered, so it's impossible to find a good date for any more local tournaments (see: State Champs rescheduling).

Let us all take a moment from trying to tell Torrey Pines where to attend nationals to thank them for coming to their senses and not considering NAC.

pfft 60 mile radius. That might get Torrey Pines to Irvine. Maybe.

I mean, we go to tournaments further away. We just arrange our own transportation. I was acting under the assumption that Torrey Pine's issue is transportation and not badly timed spring breaks.

cvdwightw wrote:

Anti-Climacus wrote:(she only drives us within a 60-mile radius of Whitman).

pfft 60 mile radius. That might get Torrey Pines to Irvine. Maybe.

Anyway, the issue with tournaments in the next couple of months is that all the spring breaks are staggered, so it's impossible to find a good date for any more local tournaments (see: State Champs rescheduling).

Let us all take a moment from trying to tell Torrey Pines where to attend nationals to thank them for coming to their senses and not considering NAC.

From personal experience (living, you know, close to Torrey Pines), 60 miles from Irvine will get you to, like, Encinitas or Solana Beach...so Torrey Pines would be a couple of miles short from that 60...


BTW, I want to congratulate all the RB people here for their win against my home school, Mt. Carmel. I was too late to see the match (I was moderating the CCA vs. SFC game), but apparently y'all did awesome.

I am pleased to announce UCLA will have open practices for anyone who wants to attend for the entire spring quarter. The meeting times are as follows:

Tuesdays 8-11PM, Kerchoff 152, except week 2, when it's 9-11PM Ackerman 3508.

Thursdays 7-9PM, Rolfe 3118.

These practices will be open to all, and we hope that many can join us.

I really feel like we didn't see much new information from the results today. RB, SAMO, and Arcadia are still the big three, but I was definitely impressed by Rancho B and by NoHo's continued progress. As good as our matches are now, I can't help but wish everybody could get their full A teams together and see what happens...

We got a semi-preview of next year
Rancho B and 3/4 of SaMo A are all coming back next year, yes?


BTW, where was Edison?

Yeah, Sky, Carlee and I are coming back next year

warpoet wrote:I really feel like we didn't see much new information from the results today. RB, SAMO, and Arcadia are still the big three, but I was definitely impressed by Rancho B and by NoHo's continued progress. As good as our matches are now, I can't help but wish everybody could get their full A teams together and see what happens...

I'm hoping that such a thing happens at SCIENCE! It will be an opportunity for the top teams to play right before nationals in a competitive setting (and play entirely against each other, in Division I), so I'm hoping that teams will take advantage of that to put as many A team people as can show up on their A team.

I think some of the Arcadia teams may attend, but SCIENCE! is on the same day as prom [at Universal Studios, no less], so our "real A" is probably not going to be able to go. At least if things work out and I can convince all the seniors that prom is actually an important experience for high school.

In a best case scenario, we could preview our next year's maybe-A team to see how they fare.

Also, a friend from University tells me that they won't be attending SCIENCE! =/

SAMO is out too

tracyclee wrote:At least if things work out and I can convince all the seniors that prom is actually an important experience for high school.

I'd pick quizbowl over prom any day of the week and twice on Saturdays.