Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

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Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by intothenegs » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:57 pm

I don't know how many Virginia quizbowl players/coaches in schools outside of the DC Metro area regularly read this forum besides the Gov team, but I guess I'll give a shot at this anyway. Besides the perenially amazing Thomas Jefferson and Maggie Walker, what schools do you think will perform well in VHSL/Battle of the Brains/other tournaments in the Virginia this year?

I think Charlottesville may remain dominant or at least close to it in VHSL AA, since they're keeping their top player, Sam Bailey; Rappahannock County will likely do well VHSL A, considering their recent performances, and since I think AJ Collins will be back next year; Collegiate will probably remain the best VA team not named TJ or Gov; and Douglas Freeman, Cave Spring, and James Monroe will do fairly well in most of their pursuits. I still expect Maggie Walker to win Battle of the Brains, and TJ will likely win VHSL AAA.

Thoughts?
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by Matt Weiner » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:13 pm

Those seem like reasonable predictions.

I hope we see a greater effort by the Virginia people who read this board to get schools playing real quizbowl in addition to TV tournaments and VHSL. There is a lot of talent out there, as well as a lot of Saturday activity already in certain areas that can be used as a base to build on.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by pretzeldude92 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:13 pm

At A level, Radford will be great, as they always are. George Mason lost their starters to graduation, and West Point lost its captain as well, who was WP's dominant player. I imagine Honaker will advance to states, and Auburn will do reasonably well. If anybody on my team would study over the summer or attempt to be good :roll: , maybe we'll do better than the 4th place at states the past two years.

At other levels, I can see Cave Spring doing very well again, Charlottesville being awesome, and James Monroe making it to the top tier at VHSL States. Freeman will be good, and at the private school level, Collegiate and St. Christophers will do well.

And of course, the dominance that is Gov and TJ.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by No Sollositing On Premise » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:04 pm

I'm not terribly well-informed about the state of Virginia HS quizbowl compared to when I was part of the circuit, but the one team that I remember surprising me the most this past year was Collegiate. This past year's Collegiate team was probably the best non TJ/Gov team from this state that I've ever seen since Charlottesville HS had Alex Chase-Levinson and STAB had Alexandra Helprin. If most of Collegiate's starters stick around, they could definitely do some damage this year.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:23 pm

Laptop Cooler wrote:I'm not terribly well-informed about the state of Virginia HS quizbowl compared to when I was part of the circuit, but the one team that I remember surprising me the most this past year was Collegiate. This past year's Collegiate team was probably the best non TJ/Gov team from this state that I've ever seen since Charlottesville HS had Alex Chase-Levinson and STAB had Alexandra Helprin. If most of Collegiate's starters stick around, they could definitely do some damage this year.
Collegiate is losing their A-Team's top scorer, Cody. I don't know about the rest of their team...I remember their B-Team as being reasonably competitive. As far as VHSL-type stuff, Gov, Freeman, and Henrico fighting for the two states spots out of our region seems likely, but it will be interesting to see how other teams in the area improve. I know Tucker in particular has been working hard. It would be great for VHSL to be more competitive in AAA at the non-state level. In general, I think James Monroe and Freeman will do quite well this season, given the beastliness of Chuhern and Kevin at HAVOC. I admittedly haven't played against Chuhern, though (at least I think I haven't). I'm really curious to see the amount of player development in the area, as it at least seems to have been increasing.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by STPickrell » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:19 pm

DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY SHOULDN'T BE CONSTRUED AS SUPPORT OF ONE TEAM OR ANOTHER

Lee HS (3rd in Group A after going 0-for-19 years) loses 3 of 4 starters. (They are not to be confused with any of the Robert E. Lee High Schools we have running around out there.)

Spotswood was 3rd in Region III with a team of juniors and sophomores. Not sure who Western Albemarle (beat Charlottesville at the R-2 tournament) is returning.

Not sure who R.E. Lee-Staunton returns. They are the last non-Charlottesville team to win Group AA.

(Just for comparison, both Lee and R.E.Lee-Staunton made the playoffs at Beall Bowl.)

Hickory HS -- anyone know anything about these guys? They did finish 3rd at VHSL and were planning on going to PACE but then appeared to cancel.

Someone from TJ should know who among the Northern VA schools is competitive this year. Woodson, Langley, Robinson, and Oakton are usually good but not sure if any of the other schools caught a good coach or talented freshman last year.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:25 pm

STPickrell wrote:
Hickory HS -- anyone know anything about these guys? They did finish 3rd at VHSL and were planning on going to PACE but then appeared to cancel.
I think but am not certain that at least 3/4 of the team they played in the Champions Challenge of Battle of the Brains were seniors. I've never played them on a format that allows B Teams so I don't know how much depth they have... Had anyone else ever heard of them before? I saw them for the first time at VHSL States...
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by jbarnes112358 » Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:42 pm

Laptop Cooler wrote:I'm not terribly well-informed about the state of Virginia HS quizbowl compared to when I was part of the circuit, but the one team that I remember surprising me the most this past year was Collegiate. This past year's Collegiate team was probably the best non TJ/Gov team from this state that I've ever seen since Charlottesville HS had Alex Chase-Levinson and STAB had Alexandra Helprin. If most of Collegiate's starters stick around, they could definitely do some damage this year.
Collegiate did have an excellent team this past year. They reached the playoffs at NAQT HSNCT. Unfortunately, they lose three seniors who I believe were their top three scorers. However, they have some enthusiastic younger players and a coach that wants their team to regain some of its former glory. They will probably need a couple of years to have a chance to get there though.

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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by mithokie » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:10 pm

I will agree with AJ and say that Radford will be very good next year with Malik and Sanjay coming back. They always have a strong contingent to fill in the gaps. Rappahannock Co. will be good with AJ coming back. We at Auburn have two of our top 3 scorers coming back, but we have a lot of holes to fill too. Our success in VHSL and regular circuit events will depend heavily on how much work the team is willing to put in this coming year. PACE-NSC was certainly an eye opener to what can be accomplished by a team that is really wanting to work hard. Brindlee Mountain was an inspiration in particular due to the similar size and demographics of their community to ours. I wouldn't be surprised to see Eastern Montgomery start making some noise next year or the year following. I think all of their players were Sophomores or younger last year. I hope we can get lots of teams involved in tournaments in SW VA this year. Auburn is hosting 11/22 and Cave Spring will host in December (I am assuming). Maybe we can get Virginia Tech to host another tournament, does anyone have a contact there? One lesson learned from our tournament last year... Tourneys in SW VA in October are probably too early in the year to get many teams involved.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by I'm a goff (in case you couldn't tell) » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:30 pm

AHS Eagles wrote:Maybe we can get Virginia Tech to host another tournament, does anyone have a contact there?
Contact Jason Thweatt at jthweattATvtDOTedu - he's the faculty advisor at VT and has run some high school events in the past.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by kamikaze » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:34 pm

Cave Spring would like to host another edition of the CSI III. I think we're shooting for December 13th but I've been talking with our administration on whether or not we can lock down that date. Right now, it's tentative. Yes, more audio/visual questions and the Coaches Challenge is back again. More details will be coming when I get the official word.

In terms of who's going to be #3 around this state, that's a tough call. There are a lot of strong contenders for the throne. In single A, Radford is like the silent but deadly team... they don't travel that much but they do extremely well in every competition they are in, it seems. Auburn's program has improved a lot and has given Radford a run for their money too. Rappahannock returns AJ and he is definitely "beastie", as the kids say. I assume that means he's pretty good, which AJ has proven to be. In AA, Charlottesville seems to be the odds on favorite, I'd think, as they return Sam. RE Lee-Staunton knocked us down a peg at States so if they return their people, they could do very well. In AAA, Collegiate was absolutely killer every time we've seen them play this past season and I can't recall another AAA team who had similar success. If they return their people, watch out.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia

Post by pretzeldude92 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:36 pm

Radford is like George Mason. Both teams rarely attend outside tournaments, show up to VHSL, and dominate. GM's 2007 NAQT team finished third in the small school division. Both would, if they did attend outside tournaments, do very well.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by mithokie » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:07 pm

I attended the VHSL coaches meeting/rule clinic in Roanoke this evening. I would encourage coaches who have not attended yet to throw their support behind the proposed rule change/format change that would make the state tournament a round robin. It would be much better (in my opinion) to allow all teams to play 7 matches at state, instead of 2 teams playing 2 matches, 2 teams playing 3 matches, etc... Our group seemed to be overwhelmingly in support of the measure. There were still lots of questions regarding what districts are supposed to do about regular season question sets. Have any districts that play a regular season gotten that resolved? If so, what are you doing for questions?
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by intothenegs » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:17 pm

AHS Eagles wrote:I attended the VHSL coaches meeting/rule clinic in Roanoke this evening. I would encourage coaches who have not attended yet to throw their support behind the proposed rule change/format change that would make the state tournament a round robin. It would be much better (in my opinion) to allow all teams to play 7 matches at state, instead of 2 teams playing 2 matches, 2 teams playing 3 matches, etc... Our group seemed to be overwhelmingly in support of the measure.
YES. This is amazing. Now if only VHSL could cut back on the excess trash and grammar and computational math.

This is really good news. Do you know if such a proposal might happen at regionals?
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by mithokie » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:22 pm

I am thinking that this probably will not even get put into place until 2009-2010 if it passes. However, the format of the tournament at the region level is decided by each region. I believe that some regions are already using a round robin format (someone correct me if I am wrong about this).
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by I'm a goff (in case you couldn't tell) » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:31 pm

AHS Eagles wrote:I attended the VHSL coaches meeting/rule clinic in Roanoke this evening. I would encourage coaches who have not attended yet to throw their support behind the proposed rule change/format change that would make the state tournament a round robin. It would be much better (in my opinion) to allow all teams to play 7 matches at state, instead of 2 teams playing 2 matches, 2 teams playing 3 matches, etc... Our group seemed to be overwhelmingly in support of the measure. There were still lots of questions regarding what districts are supposed to do about regular season question sets. Have any districts that play a regular season gotten that resolved? If so, what are you doing for questions?
I'm glad to see this idea get some traction. It's beyond silly for teams, especially from the western end of the state, but really anywhere in VA, to travel all the way to Williamsburg and only get to play two matches.

Would you mind sharing any other issues/proposals that came up? I don't know if Shawn is on the road or not, but it would be great if he were to share a synopsis of the meeting(s).
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Byko » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:57 am

AHS Eagles wrote:I am thinking that this probably will not even get put into place until 2009-2010 if it passes. However, the format of the tournament at the region level is decided by each region. I believe that some regions are already using a round robin format (someone correct me if I am wrong about this).
I know that in 2006, the VHSL Central Region (where Maggie Walker plays) did a round robin. I'm guessing the same happened last year as well. Heck, I think some of the districts do round robin tournaments there too, but I really don't know for certain on that.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Frater Taciturnus » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:15 am

Byko wrote:
AHS Eagles wrote:I am thinking that this probably will not even get put into place until 2009-2010 if it passes. However, the format of the tournament at the region level is decided by each region. I believe that some regions are already using a round robin format (someone correct me if I am wrong about this).
I know that in 2006, the VHSL Central Region (where Maggie Walker plays) did a round robin. I'm guessing the same happened last year as well. Heck, I think some of the districts do round robin tournaments there too, but I really don't know for certain on that.
Yes, my understanding is that the Central Region and its constituent districts use a single round robin.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:42 pm

May Batman Prevail? wrote:
Byko wrote:
AHS Eagles wrote:I am thinking that this probably will not even get put into place until 2009-2010 if it passes. However, the format of the tournament at the region level is decided by each region. I believe that some regions are already using a round robin format (someone correct me if I am wrong about this).
I know that in 2006, the VHSL Central Region (where Maggie Walker plays) did a round robin. I'm guessing the same happened last year as well. Heck, I think some of the districts do round robin tournaments there too, but I really don't know for certain on that.
Yes, my understanding is that the Central Region and its constituent districts use a single round robin.
Player from this region confirming that this is true, at least for the Colonial District. I would be very excited to see this happen for states, as it's really uncool for some teams to drive several hours and go home after 2 rounds.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by jbarnes112358 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:52 pm

As a new member of the VHSL Advisory Committee, I brought up the possibility of using a round-robin at the last annual meeting and it seemed favorably received. The one concern expressed involved how to break ties. I don't necessarily think they want to read very many extra rounds due to putting so much pressure on the schedule of officials. Any suggestions I could share with them would be appreciated.

As to the question distribution and quality, that is hopefully a matter for future reform. The questions have become more pyramidal, so progress is being made. Like in other states, I think the key to progress, is to get more teams experiencing quality tournaments outside the VHSL format. I also hope to distribute some complimentary packets to coaches in the state to use as practice materials. I believe most teams will be sold, though I may be overly optimistic. Some of the less involved teams may need to cut their teeth on some easier A-level style or JV-style packets. I agree with George as well. Longer term goals would include reforming math questions and diminishing the trash and trivial.

The nice thing about VA is we are not slaves to a state organization as in MO. So any weaknesses in VHSL Scholastic Bowl are not a huge problem for serious quiz bowl teams. No one is required to participate with them anyway; and they put absolutely no conditions on competing outside their organization.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Matt Weiner » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:05 pm

jbarnes112358 wrote:As a new member of the VHSL Advisory Committee, I brought up the possibility of using a round-robin at the last annual meeting and it seemed favorably received. The one concern expressed involved how to break ties. I don't necessarily think they want to read very many extra rounds due to putting so much pressure on the schedule of officials. Any suggestions I could share with them would be appreciated.
If you used an ACF or NAQT style final after the round robin, you need two packets for a final of up to two games, and two packets to play off possible ties for entry into the final. Half-games are considered acceptable for this purpose. Rarely will any tie scenario more complicated than a two-way tie for second place, one game behind the first-place team, occur. In that scenario you could play off the tie as a full game and then do the final series of up to two games. All other common tie scenarios, such as an outright three-way tie for first, require at most two games. Having four total packets available covers all contingencies, such as five-way ties, which are mathematically possible but I have never heard of actually happening.

You could play off ties for lower spots on the finals packets during the finals, if you wanted to, though VHSL doesn't seem to break such ties now. At most, you're talking about a few rooms running into round 8 instead of round 7, and then one designated room for the TBs/finals. Compared to the many regular HS tournaments in Virginia which run 7 games for everybody followed by single-elim playoffs, and adequately staff 30 or more rooms, I don't think there will be much of a problem getting the volunteers to stay.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by intothenegs » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:54 pm

jbarnes112358 wrote: Like in other states, I think the key to progress, is to get more teams experiencing quality tournaments outside the VHSL format .
Getting teams to play outside VHSL is quite difficult, at least in my opinion; while I am not against playing VHSL, I do think its existence causes some slightly less competitive teams.

Even though there are a large number of quality tournaments in Virginia, I think it wouldn't be a stretch to say that most schools don't know or don't care about them. In my VHSL District, we are the only team that has played a non-VHSL or Battle of the Brains event in the past 5 years. I didn't even know that a quizbowl circuit existed outside of VHSL until my coach asked if I wanted to do GSAC last year, and none of the other players I've talked to in my district have known about Saturday tournaments and other good things.
jbarnes112358 wrote: So any weaknesses in VHSL Scholastic Bowl are not a huge problem for serious quiz bowl teams. No one is required to participate with them anyway; and they put absolutely no conditions on competing outside their organization.
I think a major reason many high school teams don't play these tournaments is because most coaches are satisfied with playing VHSL. In my opinion, none of the coaches in my district would be genuinely interested in taking their teams to outside tournaments, because they don't seem to realize the corollation between playing a lot and improving. There was another really locally strong team in my district last year that could've done well at tournaments but only played VHSL because that was all that team's coach wanted it to play. In my team, my coach is okay with us attending some tournaments, but he sees the quizbowl circuit more as a supplement to VHSL rather than the other way around. The other members of my team also see the VHSL-format as the "standard" while they think of mACF as "the weird format Chuhern likes playing." With the exception of me, my team would probably view doing well at VHSL states as more important than doing well at PACE.

True, no one is required to participate with VHSL, but VHSL's existence causes some decent teams that could become strong teams to become complacent and just play that format instead of playing more substantive quizbowl. If VHSL scholastic bowl stopped existing, it is likely that some of the teams in my district would disappear, but I believe that would also drive some other teams to start looking into better quizbowl.

That being said, VHSL does help extend quizbowl to a larger area of the state, and despite fluctuations in their quality, questions are generally improving and computational math tossups are disappearing, so large improvements are being made.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by I'm a goff (in case you couldn't tell) » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:46 pm

intothenegs wrote: In my opinion, none of the coaches in my district would be genuinely interested in taking their teams to outside tournaments, because they don't seem to realize the corollation between playing a lot and improving. There was another really locally strong team in my district last year that could've done well at tournaments but only played VHSL because that was all that team's coach wanted it to play.
That's not a mindset that's unique to Virginia at all (unfortunately). A motivated coach or sponsor can make all the difference between a team that just shows up and does well and a team that can dominate on multiple formats.
intothenegs wrote: I think a major reason many high school teams don't play these tournaments is because most coaches are satisfied with playing VHSL.
Amazingly, there is at least one district that is satisfied with playing their own local format only, and refuses to play even VHSL.

I think the question is, if these teams are willing to play VHSL, what would they play if VHSL did not exist? Anything? Nothing? Arguments about whether or not VHSL is "good quizbowl" aside, how many of those coaches that only play VHSL or only play a local format would be willing to attend circuit events instead if those formats didn't exist?

The key for a lot of schools is outreach - if they don't know that tournaments are there, how can they send teams? I think it's great that you went to GSAC last year, and hopefully you'll keep that up. There are two tournaments in November that will be a relatively short distance from you - I hope you consider attending at least one of them, if not both.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by mithokie » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:04 am

I agree that outreach is key. I think it is very good that Shawn is our commissioner for VHSL, since he has certainly done some things to encourage the circuit to those coaches that are completely satisfied with VHSL. The rules meetings become mandatory every year starting next fall, and these meetings are a wonderful opportunity to talk up the circuit and to network with other coaches. I was not required to attend our rules meeting this year since I went last year, but I was not going to miss the opportunity to be in a room full of coaches that might consider our tournament if I made the right pitch. I attributed our advancement to the State tourney last year to our participation in "invitational tournaments". I was also able to mention Cave Spring's tourney, the tourney at UVA, and this web site. Hopefully, I have convinced a school or two to get more involved.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by STPickrell » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:35 pm

I am producing questions for regular season play. Some of the matches are from my MSHSAA states from last year (not the pop culture stuff that was discussed on here) and some are from Avery Enterprises. Regular season questions can also be used for out of district scrimmages.

NAQT never did get back to me with a counter-proposal or a yes/no so I went with a vendor I knew I could trust and that could provide me something I could use as-is or at least edit.

I am in talks with HSAPQ to get their questions (perhaps edited down to 5-6 lines) for next regular season.

I encourage them to generate a set of 8 VHSL-formatted matches (with the non-traditional subjects in the directed rounds). It would be interesting to see if a VHSL-formatted tournament could get some of the non-traditional schools to attend.

Coaches seem to like the questions. Coaches that have never gone to circuit events have mentioned how their players are learning from the questions.

I have mentioned the tournament circuit to all my rules clinics and am in favor of a round-robin at states, regions, and any district that doesn't do a regular season.

As for format changes, I am agnostic or moderately in favor of many of the changes discussed here. However, I would prefer the coaches in favor of these changes to make the arguments and then (to borrow an old Virginia analogy) I would give the 'nod' in support of proposals.

The two districts that do not play Scholastic Bowl are the Lonesome Pine and Mountain Empire. Both play their local format and eschew VHSL.

Before VHSL, many teams did not play anything or only played their local format. Money, laziness, and ignorance all contribute to teams not playing the circuit.

Good luck to all teams playing VHSL and circuit events this season.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by millionwaves » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:46 pm

STPickrell wrote: I am in talks with HSAPQ to get their questions (perhaps edited down to 5-6 lines) for next regular season.
As HSAPQ does not produce any tossups that are over six lines, we feel confident that no editing of our questions will be necessary. Further, we're very excited about the possibility of producing the VHSL questions, although our participation is of course contingent on the elimination of math calculation tossups.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:14 pm

millionwaves wrote:
STPickrell wrote: I am in talks with HSAPQ to get their questions (perhaps edited down to 5-6 lines) for next regular season.
As HSAPQ does not produce any tossups that are over six lines, we feel confident that no editing of our questions will be necessary. Further, we're very excited about the possibility of producing the VHSL questions, although our participation is of course contingent on the elimination of math calculation tossups.
This would make my senior season of VHSL awesome. I hope this gets worked out.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by pretzeldude92 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:34 am

Thank God (and Shawn Pickrell) that Shawn Pickrell is writing regular season questions for this year and moreover that computational math won't be eliminated until after I graduate.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by AKKOLADE » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:51 am

Thank God (and your ego) that you only favor questions that directly benefit you rather than the game as a whole.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by intothenegs » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:25 am

STPickrell wrote: I am in talks with HSAPQ to get their questions (perhaps edited down to 5-6 lines) for next regular season.
This would be lovely, though I personally would have preferred this happening earlier.
STPickrell wrote: I encourage them to generate a set of 8 VHSL-formatted matches (with the non-traditional subjects in the directed rounds). It would be interesting to see if a VHSL-formatted tournament could get some of the non-traditional schools to attend.
This is an interesting idea. Having tournaments in VHSL-format might help get other previously uninvolved schools involved, especially since some coaches believe that playing non-VHSL formats doesn't help their teams. I could definitely see this happening sometime.
STPickrell wrote: Coaches seem to like the questions. Coaches that have never gone to circuit events have mentioned how their players are learning from the questions.
The VHSL format certainly does help players learn things, but not to such a wide or deep extent as playing high school mACF tournaments. VHSL only has tossups; for the average VHSL-playing team to convert tossups, all they have to do is know the giveaway clue. However, if you play mACF, you have to answer a three-part bonus and have deeper knowledge. If I only have enough knowledge to answer a tossup off the giveaway, I will probably only earn 10 points on each bonus. However, if I decide to learn more about some subjects, I will soon be able to 20 or 30 many bonuses. This means that having deep knowledge on a subject in VHSL would just earn my team 10 points on a tossup, but the same situation in mACF could earn my team 30-40 points. I don't doubt that players are learning from VHSL; they definitely are. But they just aren't doing so to the same extent that players would playing better formats.
STPickrell wrote: I have mentioned the tournament circuit to all my rules clinics and am in favor of a round-robin at states, regions, and any district that doesn't do a regular season.
As I mentioned before, this is an amazing improvement, though I wish it wouldn't take so long for new measures to go into effect.
STPickrell wrote: As for format changes, I am agnostic or moderately in favor of many of the changes discussed here. However, I would prefer the coaches in favor of these changes to make the arguments and then (to borrow an old Virginia analogy) I would give the 'nod' in support of proposals.
If there is one thing that could be done better about VHSL, it would be to have slightly more academic questions (and less pop culture, hopefully).
STPickrell wrote: Before VHSL, many teams did not play anything or only played their local format. Money, laziness, and ignorance all contribute to teams not playing the circuit.
I do believe that VHSL has been an overall positive influence on Virginia quizbowl. I have been a bit hostile towards VHSL in my previous posts, but I do know that the existence of this format has brought numerous benefits and has helped involve many more Virginia high schools in quizbowl. However, I do hope VHSL can spread more information about tournaments outside VHSL so that ignorance won't be a reason teams don't play more solid formats.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by pretzeldude92 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:38 pm

leftsaidfred wrote:Thank God (and your ego) that you only favor questions that directly benefit you rather than the game as a whole.
Ouch. That was probably deserved on my part. I actually wouldn't mind the elimination of computational math because I understand that it's not the best for quiz bowl as a whole. Sorry if I came off as a bit selfish there.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by AKKOLADE » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:40 pm

It's cool; I'm just glad you don't genuinely believe that what's a good source for points for you is good for quiz bowl. :smile:
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Matt Weiner » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:31 pm

STPickrell wrote:I encourage them to generate a set of 8 VHSL-formatted matches (with the non-traditional subjects in the directed rounds). It would be interesting to see if a VHSL-formatted tournament could get some of the non-traditional schools to attend.
It would be even more interesting to see VHSL move to a format that isn't cumbersome to play, difficult to write, and completely unlike any format that is played or has ever been played at real high school tournaments in Virginia. Then we wouldn't have this format disconnect problem and VHSL would get better in and of itself.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by intothenegs » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:33 pm

Matt Weiner wrote: It would be even more interesting to see VHSL move to a format that isn't cumbersome to play, difficult to write, and completely unlike any format that is played or has ever been played at real high school tournaments in Virginia. Then we wouldn't have this format disconnect problem and VHSL would get better in and of itself.
I am writing an mACF packet- around A-level (or VHSL level, which is about the same)- to introduce other teams in my district (none of which have ever played anything besides VHSL and Battle of the Brains) to playing a better format. The questions are obnoxiously easy, but I think it is generally academic and avoids the amount of trash found in NAQT and VHSL (and having tossups any harder would all go dead, in my district). If anyone else wants a copy of it to read to their district- or would be willing to edit it, in case it entirely sucks- I will send it to them.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by pretzeldude92 » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:44 pm

So... the Bull Run District started tonight. George Mason reloaded...again. We beat them 170-155 I think. We are 3-0, Mason is 2-1, Clarke is 2-1, Strasburg might be 2-1, and Manassas Park and Madison are 0-3. I think.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by I'm a goff (in case you couldn't tell) » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:54 pm

intothenegs wrote:
Matt Weiner wrote: It would be even more interesting to see VHSL move to a format that isn't cumbersome to play, difficult to write, and completely unlike any format that is played or has ever been played at real high school tournaments in Virginia. Then we wouldn't have this format disconnect problem and VHSL would get better in and of itself.
I am writing an mACF packet- around A-level (or VHSL level, which is about the same)- to introduce other teams in my district (none of which have ever played anything besides VHSL and Battle of the Brains) to playing a better format. The questions are obnoxiously easy, but I think it is generally academic and avoids the amount of trash found in NAQT and VHSL (and having tossups any harder would all go dead, in my district). If anyone else wants a copy of it to read to their district- or would be willing to edit it, in case it entirely sucks- I will send it to them.
Shoot me an email - dgoff AT asaltypieceofdan DOT net. I'll be glad to take a look at it.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by intothenegs » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:16 pm

intothenegs wrote: I think Charlottesville may remain dominant or at least close to it in VHSL AA, since they're keeping their top player, Sam Bailey; Rappahannock County will likely do well VHSL A, considering their recent performances, and since I think AJ Collins will be back next year; Collegiate will probably remain the best VA team not named TJ or Gov; and Douglas Freeman, Cave Spring, and James Monroe will do fairly well in most of their pursuits. I still expect Maggie Walker to win Battle of the Brains, and TJ will likely win VHSL AAA.
I was extremely impressed by Gov yesterday. Based on their performance yesterday, I think Gov is by far the strongest team in Virginia at the moment. Compared to what I saw from TJ, Gov is much stronger on lit and history; they're pretty scary on science, too. I think Gov will dominate our state this year in VHSL, Battle of the Brains, NAQT, and whatever else they decide to participate in. And while Naren is dominant on TJ, I feel that Gov is very balanced and (repeating this from the Cavalier Classic thread) very disciplined. Gov B is also pretty good; Matt seems like a good player with potential to become even better.

Based on stats from yesterday, Collegiate looks slightly weaker than they were last year; did they graduate some top players, or were they not there yesterday? I also didn't see Charlottesville, so I don't know if they still do non-VHSL/Battle of the Brains stuff anymore.

And I'd love to play Rappahannock; I've been hearing a lot of good things about AJ but I've never gotten a chance to play his team. Is Rappahannock attending any tournaments in the next few months?
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by pretzeldude92 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:28 pm

Rapp is headed to Auburn and Cave Spring, if our current plans hold up. I'd love to play JM as well, since you guys looked really impressive from the Cavalier Classic stats.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:46 pm

In response to Chuhern, Collegiate graduated Cody, who did the vast majority of their scoring last year. They were missing a guy who's pretty good yesterday, though.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by sageorator » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:29 pm

I have to agree on Gov from the stats that I saw, very impressive.

I believe that Charlottesville has expressed interest in a couple tournaments in the state, so I would think they would make an appearance at some point.

Cave Spring has looked pretty impressive from the stats that I have seen. It looks like Kathryn has gotten even better, which is pretty scary, and has put up some very good numbers. In regards to Western Albemarle, I seem to recall that when we saw them at states that they were fairly young.

Group A should be interesting this year. James Monroe seems to be very good with Chuhern along with Rappahannock and of course Radford. Honaker has looked good and Auburn has looked okay as well.

On my end, not sure if anyone cares, Blacksburg lost our top 6 players to graduation. A lot more people have joined and we seem okay in practice, so I guess we'll see.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by intothenegs » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:59 pm

pretzeldude92 wrote:Rapp is headed to Auburn and Cave Spring, if our current plans hold up. I'd love to play JM as well, since you guys looked really impressive from the Cavalier Classic stats.
James Monroe is doing VCU Fall and GSAC; we won't be able to go to Auburn, but I will talk to my coach about Cave Spring.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by pretzeldude92 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:26 am

Hey, I was wondering when we were going to have another VHSL results thread up.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by pretzeldude92 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:29 am

sageorator wrote:Group A should be interesting this year. James Monroe seems to be very good with Chuhern
JM is AA if I remember correctly.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by intothenegs » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:50 am

pretzeldude92 wrote:
sageorator wrote:Group A should be interesting this year. James Monroe seems to be very good with Chuhern
JM is AA if I remember correctly.
That is correct.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by sageorator » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:45 pm

Oh yeah, duh, I'm not sure what I was thinking. Thanks for the correction. More competition for us. So, uh, Group AA will be pretty interesting as well.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by kamikaze » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:35 pm

After the UVA Cavalier Classic and before the EQUINE heading up, I guess I can toss in my two cents again:
sageorator wrote:Oh yeah, duh, I'm not sure what I was thinking. Thanks for the correction. More competition for us. So, uh, Group AA will be pretty interesting as well.
No kidding... after seeing Chuhern in action, AA seems to be loaded with talent. Like awesome talent. Chuhern with James Monroe was absolutely sublime when I saw him play against our A team. Sam returns for Charlottesville and having taught the kid and seen him for the past two years, he's like fine wine, he can only get better. If Blacksburg reloaded with some good candidates, then our District will be interesting. I'm glad to see that Blacksburg is finally taking their act on the road, so to speak. I think we might have a chance but wow, we have our work cut out for us in AA.

Collegiate is down but at the same time, they weren't at full strength at UVA. Their performance at UVA should not be a good indicator of what they are truly capable of for the year. I think we'll get a better idea of what they can do when they come and play at the EQUINE in a couple of weeks.

Honaker had a tandem of two guys that did very well in their round against us (and beat us). They should be pretty good to rumble in A. Auburn was doing well. However, AJ was awesome last year so I can only imagine he got better this year. He'll be a force to reckon with but again, the EQUINE should give us some comparisons. Although, you just never know about Radford... they're always running silent and then *POW*, out of nowhere, a ninja scissor kick to the head. What do they do down there?

Gov is always impressive. So is TJ... but I don't think you can judge their true strength by their performance at UVA either. I think they were missing some of their talent due to the seniors writing essays for early admissions. I think Maggie will take the Battle of the Brains this year (again) but TJ may have the slight edge on them in VHSL. It would be an interesting final round to watch, though! Of course, I do have a bias since TJ was my old stomping grounds. :P

With all this talent in the state, why can't we send a team down to Orlando to represent? Good Lord, super students abound! Overall, it should be an interesting year.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Matt Weiner » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:41 pm

kamikaze wrote:With all this talent in the state, why can't we send a team down to Orlando to represent? Good Lord, super students abound! Overall, it should be an interesting year.
Because people who care about getting good at quizbowl and people who care about playing fake nonsense like PAC are mutually exclusive groups in Virginia and, with very few exceptions, everywhere else.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:53 pm

So is TJ... but I don't think you can judge their true strength by their performance at UVA either. I think they were missing some of their talent due to the seniors writing essays for early admissions.
All that I can find is Naren saying that the B and C teams would be weaker. Looking at TJ A's stats it looks like their A team was there completely.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:44 pm

GARBAGE DAY 425 wrote:
So is TJ... but I don't think you can judge their true strength by their performance at UVA either. I think they were missing some of their talent due to the seniors writing essays for early admissions.
All that I can find is Naren saying that the B and C teams would be weaker. Looking at TJ A's stats it looks like their A team was there completely.
Their A Team was there. They were hurt a lot by some unfortunate negs, though. They're a lot more dangerous when they're paying attention.
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Re: Non-DC Metro Virginia 2008-09

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:49 pm

Does anyone know anything about the AAA VHSL teams besides us and TJ? I'm curious as to who we will be facing in order to factor in just how much luck will be affecting our matches.

In the Colonial District, I know that Kevin is returning as strong as ever for Freeman, but their success is largely dependent upon him. JR Tucker has become stronger with the addition of Greg Tito's sister Claire, but I haven't seen them in action yet.

As for the Central Region, Eliza at Henrico is a good player but incredibly streaky. In VHSL, though, I've seen this translate into a lot of points.

That's really all I know about AAA. Does anyone know anything about the state of Woodson or some of the other AAA schools who made States last year?
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