M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

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M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:54 pm

The Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Alexandria, VA, is pleased to announce the Mostly Over-hyped House-written Invitational Tournament (M.O.H.I.T.) on Saturday, January 10, 2009. Like the Housh tournament last year, it will be house-written (as the title says) and untimed. In addition, unlike past tournaments, we will be using mACF distribution but with 20 tossups with related bonuses. The field will be capped at 48 teams like previous tournaments, though if for some reason the entire East Coast and every TJ alum for the past 6 years wants to help moderate, we might consider allowing more teams, but don't count on it. Anyway, here's the pricing:

$60 for the first team from each school.
$50 for subsequent teams.
-$10 for the first set of buzzers
-$10 if you're at least 200 miles away
-$10 if you bring someone to staff
$20 for a copy of the questions (note that we will eventually post questions online)
$30 for dropping a team after Wednesday, January 7th

The format has yet to be determined, though it will probably be similar to what we did the last two tournaments.

To sign up, go to http://activities.tjhsst.edu/itsacademic/tjiatreg.php. If you have any questions, e-mail me (hwhiteNOSPAM@tjhsst.edu) or Greyson Lewis (greyson.lewisNOSPAM@gmail.com).
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:47 am

When we say the format will be similar, there will be significant improvements over the format we used at TJIAT this year that seemed to take forever. We will probably use some hybrid of a card system and round robins; that said, we are currently trying to come up with a system to guarantee as many games as possible in the shortest amount of time.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:37 pm

You know you want to sign up...

Also, what in the world is going on in Mumbai right now? :sad:
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:44 pm

closesesame wrote:Also, what in the world is going on in Mumbai right now? :sad:
Note that this is not an example of the types and length of questions we will be asking.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:54 pm

Same day as Green Eggs and Hammond in Columbia. You'll probably be competing with them for teams. Just putting that out there.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:00 pm

You can expect us with 1-3 teams, Harry. We won't know for sure until much closer to then...
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:00 pm

rmgeokid wrote:Same day as Green Eggs and Hammond in Columbia. You'll probably be competing with them for teams. Just putting that out there.
Won't speed tournaments and pyramidal tournaments generally attract different schools?
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:12 pm

That being said, I was kind of surprised that the Hammond people scheduled it for the same day - we have, after all, claimed this date for a while, in various other threads including Daichi's master calendar of sorts for the DC/MD/VA area. If teams would prefer a speed format, that's their choice, but we would hope that our traditional field would pick us.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:01 pm

...and the award for first registration goes to Robert E. Lee High School!
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:39 pm

Funny story, RM is already registered for Hammond, so I don't know if we're going to unregister and sign up for this or what. We do have two coaches, we could send A-team here and B-team to Hammond. But I'm not the captain, so that will be resolved eventually by Raj and the coaches.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Allez Cuisine » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:15 am

Field Update:
Robert E. Lee (1)
State College (2)
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Howard » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:28 pm

closesesame wrote:That being said, I was kind of surprised that the Hammond people scheduled it for the same day - we have, after all, claimed this date for a while, in various other threads including Daichi's master calendar of sorts for the DC/MD/VA area.
Hammond has chosen the first Saturday after returning from school after Winter break for well over ten years now. I'm guessing they didn't check and simply went with their old date. I'm also guessing this tournament isn't high on the interest list for TJ, so they were unlikely to know about its history on this date.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:05 am

Only 1 team registered, Tressler? *gasp*
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by btressler » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:05 am

closesesame wrote:Only 1 team registered, Tressler? *gasp*
There may be Charter B and Charter C, if they stop goofing off at practice.

We haven't done any tournaments this year where the fresh/soph aren't thrashed by the national contenders, so I'd like to find somewhere else to take them. Suggestions are welcome.

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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:14 am

Ah, well that's a good point. We are tentatively planning to follow the format of QuAC (albeit with 8 prelim brackets instead of 7), so that every team gets 5 prelims, 5 playoffs, and then championship has that cross-bracket final for placement. Since we'll pull the top 12 into the championship bracket, anyway, your fresh/soph would have to face national contenders no more than 2 or 3 times out of 10.

EDIT: Probably not going to work.
Last edited by closesesame on Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by vcuEvan » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:20 am

closesesame wrote: Oh, one more thing which may intrigue you. We are probably going to have different question difficulties for the playoffs for the championship and consolation brackets. We're going to write hard, quality tossups for the championship bracket that actually differentiate between teams. For the consolation bracket, we'll edit those questions so that they are easier but on a related subject. So if I wrote a tossup about the Book of Kells for the championship bracket, the consolation bracket may hear a tossup on Ireland with Book of Kells as a clue.
I'm going to quickly suggest you devote your limited writing time to writing five fewer rounds and just make the questions accessible for all teams but challenging for good teams like pyramidal questions are supposed to be. Just a suggestion though.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by cdcarter » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:22 am

closesesame wrote:Oh, one more thing which may intrigue you. We are probably going to have different question difficulties for the playoffs for the championship and consolation brackets. We're going to write hard, quality tossups for the championship bracket that actually differentiate between teams. For the consolation bracket, we'll edit those questions so that they are easier but on a related subject. So if I wrote a tossup about the Book of Kells for the championship bracket, the consolation bracket may hear a tossup on Ireland with Book of Kells as a clue.
There are so many reasons you should not do this. For example, now you have to write way more questions than you would have, now you have an excuse to write crazy hard questions that shouldn't be at this level that are always there in past TJ tournaments, but most importantly, now not everyone is playing the same questions, and statistics become less meaningful.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by AKKOLADE » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:38 am

Not to pile on, but I agree with Chris & Evan here and feel that I should point out that in the time I've been on hsqb, the number of times an event tried the separate questions thing and had it received well could probably be counted on Mordecai Brown's right hand.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by The Atom Strikes! » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:06 am

I actually don't object to Naren's plan, because this area has reached the point that the elite teams are considerably above everyone else, and differentiation of these teams tends to require more difficulty-- for example, the Penn tournament's final was excellently appropriate for the two competing teams, and made for a more meaningful match.

Of course, this is contingent on the team's ability to produce the quality rounds in the time that you have left-- I would rather have regular-difficulty rounds of good quality than poor harder-difficulty rounds.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:08 am

Sure, we'll keep to uniform packets for all teams. I see your point about stats and time and such. We do intend to make the playoff rounds to differentiate between top teams, though. We'll try hard to keep bonus conversion at a reasonable level in the playoffs, because that can make a huge difference in differentiating between the top teams. Teams who are not in the championship bracket should expect to have to wait until the line or two before "FTP" to answer questions in the last 5 rounds.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:15 pm

FredMorlan wrote:Not to pile on, but I agree with Chris & Evan here and feel that I should point out that in the time I've been on hsqb, the number of times an event tried the separate questions thing and had it received well could probably be counted on Mordecai Brown's right hand.
As the tournament director and editor for LOL HFT III, I'd like to add that it's better to spend your time ensuring that your consolation bracket bonuses do not have collegiate regular difficulty middle parts as easy parts (SORRY KIDS) than it is to write separate questions for both brackets.

(After all, Platonic ideal tossups should be able to provide good differentiation between teams of any caliber, even if elite teams might slightly prefer that those tossups be on The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters rather than Arnolfini's Getting Hitched, That Player. It's only the bonuses that truly might need to be different for ultimate fairness. Nonetheless, while I doubtless have more things broken inside of me than you do when it comes to making rational judgment calls, and so I probably made more errors in producing bonuses for two levels of play than you would, I do think that generally there's more work to be done in making sure that the set is as good as possible.)

Make the finals hard; that's a lot of fun, and it doesn't do the same work twice. But if you can have everyone who's playing a round playing the same packets, if at all possible, you will not regret doing so.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 pm

I would like to chime in and say that I think it is in every tournament's best interest to keep the packet difficulty as uniform as possible across the board, and would strongly discourage tournaments from using multiple versions of rounds for that reason.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by BuzzerZen » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 pm

everyday847 wrote:Arnolfini's Getting Hitched, That Player
I am giving this as my answer to Arnolfini questions from now on.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:51 pm

Just to clarify, we are not doing the whole different difficulty thing. We are going to make the rounds pretty difficult, especially towards the end, though.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:02 pm

For those who tried to sign up in the past day or two, please check back to see if you are actually signed up. We had a bit of a problem in which an archive of the site was up instead of the current version.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by STPickrell » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:41 am

closesesame wrote:...and the award for first registration goes to Robert E. Lee High School!
This is Lee-Springfield, right?
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:08 pm

STPickrell wrote:
closesesame wrote:...and the award for first registration goes to Robert E. Lee High School!
This is Lee-Springfield, right?
Right.

Also, field update:

Falls Church (1)
James W. Robinson Jr. Secondary School (1)
Marshall H.S. (2)
Robert E. Lee High School (1)
State College Area High School (2)
The Covenant School (1)
Wilmington Charter (1)
Total: 9 teams
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:29 pm

Field update time:

Collegiate School (3)
Falls Church (1)
Georgetown Day School (2)
James W. Robinson Jr. Secondary School (1)
Maggie Walker (3)
Marshall H.S. (2)
Robert E. Lee High School (1)
St. Stephens and St. Agnes School (1)
State College Area High School (2)
The Covenant School (1)
Walt Whitman (1)
Wilmington Charter (1)

Total: 19 Teams

Also, we are now officially with PACE, so the top whatever number of teams will advance to the PACE NSC.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:01 pm

hwhite wrote:In addition, unlike past tournaments, we will be using mACF distribution but with 20 tossups with related bonuses.
What is the specific distribution here for this? Will you be tweaking mACF a little or sticking right to it?

Additionally, we're surely interested in coming. Let me get some more "yes" answers instead of "maybes" from my kids and i'll see if we're going to bring either 1 or 2 teams.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:41 pm

Caesar Rodney HS wrote:
hwhite wrote:In addition, unlike past tournaments, we will be using mACF distribution but with 20 tossups with related bonuses.
What is the specific distribution here for this? Will you be tweaking mACF a little or sticking right to it?
We intend to stick to the standard mACF distribution.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by btressler » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:47 am

closesesame wrote:Only 1 team registered, Tressler? *gasp*
OK. I need a clue.

How do I re-login and change our team count to 3?

EDIT: Never mind. I found the right link on the second try.

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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:32 pm

The tournament is fast approaching, so don't forget to sign up!
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:12 pm

All right, with 11 days to go, here's what the field's looking like:

Caesar Rodney High School (2)
Collegiate School (3)
Falls Church (1)
Georgetown Day School (2)
Gonzaga (1)
James W. Robinson Jr. Secondary School (1)
Maggie Walker (3)
Marshall H.S. (2)
Robert E. Lee High School (1)
South County Secondary (1)
St. Stephens and St. Agnes School (1)
State College Area High School (2)
The Covenant School (1)
WJ (1)
Walt Whitman (1)
Wilmington Charter (3)

Total: 26 teams

We are still aiming to have 12 rounds written, so sign up quickly!
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:25 pm

A school named Pallet Town Prep Academy signed up. Unfortunately, I think it's a joke registration given that Ash Ketchum is from Pallet Town and no such school seems to exist when I do a Google search. If this school IS actually legit, could someone let me know before I delete it from our list?

That said, we only have 26 teams signed up. Please sign up if you haven't, and if you want to bring a D or E team or something, please do! I'm sure we can work something out price-wise. Sign up!
Last edited by closesesame on Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Kouign Amann » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:14 pm

St. Anselm's really would like to attend, but unfortunately we have our It's Academic taping that day.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:06 am

Ditto to Aidan. We'll be at your fall tourney next year though!
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:06 pm

So Pallet Town Prep Academy is playing at the M.O.H.I.T. with a wacky name to unofficially play for their school. That explains a lot. So up the field to 27, with Pallet Town Prep Academy in the list.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:52 pm

If you didn't catch my e-mail (i didn't get a response), i'll be happy to read at this tournament as i did in the Fall.

Still bringing two teams, for sure. See you on Saturday.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:49 pm

Also, registration will start at 8, the tournament will hopefully start at 9, and we hope to end by 6, assuming 40-minute rounds and an hour-long lunch break.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:17 pm

And here is our field:

Caesar Rodney High School (2)
Collegiate School (3)
Falls Church (1)
Georgetown Day School (2)
Gonzaga (1)
James W. Robinson Jr. Secondary School (1)
Longfellow (1)
Maggie Walker (3)
Mount Vernon High School (1)
Pallet Town Prep Academy (1)
Robert E. Lee High School (1)
South County Secondary (1)
St. Stephens and St. Agnes School (1)
State College Area High School (2)
Stuyvesant High School (1)
The Covenant School (1)
WJ (1)
Walt Whitman (1)
Wilmington Charter (3)
Winston Churchill High School (2)

Total: 30 teams

We will probably to five brackets of six followed by a bracketed playoff similar to what we did last time, except with half-packets to break the ties this time.
Harry White
TJHSST '09, Virginia Tech '13
VP of Technology, PACE
Owner of Tournament Database Search and Quizbowl Schedule Generator
Will run stats for food

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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:58 pm

If Fairfax County decides to cancel activities tomorrow, then obviously we can't have the tournament. Otherwise, we will still be hosting the tournament.
Harry White
TJHSST '09, Virginia Tech '13
VP of Technology, PACE
Owner of Tournament Database Search and Quizbowl Schedule Generator
Will run stats for food

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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:48 am

So i assume we're still on?

See you there.
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org

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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:20 am

Also, I recommend keeping an eye on this site, though it looks like the most we'll get are some showers.
Harry White
TJHSST '09, Virginia Tech '13
VP of Technology, PACE
Owner of Tournament Database Search and Quizbowl Schedule Generator
Will run stats for food

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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:28 am

Stats can be found here.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by aestheteboy » Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:26 pm

I'd like to apologize on behalf of my team for leaving early. I would have liked to stay and play, but my coach urgently needed to leave. This is the first time that this happened in the four years that I've known him, so I imagine that he had a very good reason for disrupting the tournament schedule. Again, I'm sorry for this.

The questions were pretty good, and they improved as the day progressed. Bonuses were variable, and some third parts were unnecessarily difficult. I liked the tossups over all, although there were some weak ones and a lot of biographical clues. The individual prizes were . . . better last year, IMO. The readers were very solid, and we had a much better moderator experience than in the fall tournament. Thanks for hosting.
Daichi - Walter Johnson; Vanderbilt; U of Chicago.
Daichi's Law of High School Quizbowl: the frequency of posting in the Quizbowl Resource Center is proportional to the likelihood of being overrated.

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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:03 pm

Final results:

1. Charter A
2. GDS A
3. State College A
4. Gov A

More stuff once I've relieved myself of my insomnia.
Harry White
TJHSST '09, Virginia Tech '13
VP of Technology, PACE
Owner of Tournament Database Search and Quizbowl Schedule Generator
Will run stats for food

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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Sir Thopas » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:05 pm

Did you switch the finals and 3rd place game? SC and Gov were undefeated, as I saw it.
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Brown '13

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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by at your pleasure » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:10 pm

The questions were quite good. I had the following four issues, however:
-The Pei tossup, which had four or five non-uinqley identifying clues, then a obscure building, then the rock and roll hall of fame. The Starry Night question that round or the next round was also problematic for similar reasons.
-I think that psudonyms came too early in the Kirkeggard question, but that could just be me.
-The Kaddish bonus should probably have stated "accept Kaddish for Naomi Ginsberg.
Douglas Graebner, Walt Whitman HS 10, Uchicago 14
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Sir Thopas » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:12 pm

Anti-Climacus wrote:-The Kaddish bonus should probably have stated "accept Kaddish for Naomi Ginsberg.
That's not what the poem is called, though.
Guy Tabachnick
Hunter '09
Brown '13

http://memoryofthisimpertinence.blogspot.com/

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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:50 pm

There were some question problems. Dubai isn't the capital of UAE. I didn't like the I.M Pei question much either, like Douglas said. I can't think of anything much more right now but really it wasn't a big deal, in retrospect.

Overall this was very well run. You guys did a great job. Moderators were generally very solid. No complaints at all about that. Things appeared to stay on time. YAY STATS (Taft is awesome).

We had a great time in one of our most successful competitions ever. Aside from one bad game we played, this was the best i've ever felt about how our A Team did.
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org

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