M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

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M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

The Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Alexandria, VA, is pleased to announce the Mostly Over-hyped House-written Invitational Tournament (M.O.H.I.T.) on Saturday, January 10, 2009. Like the Housh tournament last year, it will be house-written (as the title says) and untimed. In addition, unlike past tournaments, we will be using mACF distribution but with 20 tossups with related bonuses. The field will be capped at 48 teams like previous tournaments, though if for some reason the entire East Coast and every TJ alum for the past 6 years wants to help moderate, we might consider allowing more teams, but don't count on it. Anyway, here's the pricing:

$60 for the first team from each school.
$50 for subsequent teams.
-$10 for the first set of buzzers
-$10 if you're at least 200 miles away
-$10 if you bring someone to staff
$20 for a copy of the questions (note that we will eventually post questions online)
$30 for dropping a team after Wednesday, January 7th

The format has yet to be determined, though it will probably be similar to what we did the last two tournaments.

To sign up, go to http://activities.tjhsst.edu/itsacademic/tjiatreg.php. If you have any questions, e-mail me ([email protected]) or Greyson Lewis ([email protected]).
Last edited by Whiter Hydra on Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

When we say the format will be similar, there will be significant improvements over the format we used at TJIAT this year that seemed to take forever. We will probably use some hybrid of a card system and round robins; that said, we are currently trying to come up with a system to guarantee as many games as possible in the shortest amount of time.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

You know you want to sign up...

Also, what in the world is going on in Mumbai right now? :sad:
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

closesesame wrote:Also, what in the world is going on in Mumbai right now? :sad:
Note that this is not an example of the types and length of questions we will be asking.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Angry Babies in Love »

Same day as Green Eggs and Hammond in Columbia. You'll probably be competing with them for teams. Just putting that out there.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Blackboard Monitor Vimes »

You can expect us with 1-3 teams, Harry. We won't know for sure until much closer to then...
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

rmgeokid wrote:Same day as Green Eggs and Hammond in Columbia. You'll probably be competing with them for teams. Just putting that out there.
Won't speed tournaments and pyramidal tournaments generally attract different schools?
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

That being said, I was kind of surprised that the Hammond people scheduled it for the same day - we have, after all, claimed this date for a while, in various other threads including Daichi's master calendar of sorts for the DC/MD/VA area. If teams would prefer a speed format, that's their choice, but we would hope that our traditional field would pick us.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

...and the award for first registration goes to Robert E. Lee High School!
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Angry Babies in Love »

Funny story, RM is already registered for Hammond, so I don't know if we're going to unregister and sign up for this or what. We do have two coaches, we could send A-team here and B-team to Hammond. But I'm not the captain, so that will be resolved eventually by Raj and the coaches.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Allez Cuisine »

Field Update:
Robert E. Lee (1)
State College (2)
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Howard »

closesesame wrote:That being said, I was kind of surprised that the Hammond people scheduled it for the same day - we have, after all, claimed this date for a while, in various other threads including Daichi's master calendar of sorts for the DC/MD/VA area.
Hammond has chosen the first Saturday after returning from school after Winter break for well over ten years now. I'm guessing they didn't check and simply went with their old date. I'm also guessing this tournament isn't high on the interest list for TJ, so they were unlikely to know about its history on this date.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

Only 1 team registered, Tressler? *gasp*
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by btressler »

closesesame wrote:Only 1 team registered, Tressler? *gasp*
There may be Charter B and Charter C, if they stop goofing off at practice.

We haven't done any tournaments this year where the fresh/soph aren't thrashed by the national contenders, so I'd like to find somewhere else to take them. Suggestions are welcome.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

Ah, well that's a good point. We are tentatively planning to follow the format of QuAC (albeit with 8 prelim brackets instead of 7), so that every team gets 5 prelims, 5 playoffs, and then championship has that cross-bracket final for placement. Since we'll pull the top 12 into the championship bracket, anyway, your fresh/soph would have to face national contenders no more than 2 or 3 times out of 10.

EDIT: Probably not going to work.
Last edited by closesesame on Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by vcuEvan »

closesesame wrote: Oh, one more thing which may intrigue you. We are probably going to have different question difficulties for the playoffs for the championship and consolation brackets. We're going to write hard, quality tossups for the championship bracket that actually differentiate between teams. For the consolation bracket, we'll edit those questions so that they are easier but on a related subject. So if I wrote a tossup about the Book of Kells for the championship bracket, the consolation bracket may hear a tossup on Ireland with Book of Kells as a clue.
I'm going to quickly suggest you devote your limited writing time to writing five fewer rounds and just make the questions accessible for all teams but challenging for good teams like pyramidal questions are supposed to be. Just a suggestion though.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by cdcarter »

closesesame wrote:Oh, one more thing which may intrigue you. We are probably going to have different question difficulties for the playoffs for the championship and consolation brackets. We're going to write hard, quality tossups for the championship bracket that actually differentiate between teams. For the consolation bracket, we'll edit those questions so that they are easier but on a related subject. So if I wrote a tossup about the Book of Kells for the championship bracket, the consolation bracket may hear a tossup on Ireland with Book of Kells as a clue.
There are so many reasons you should not do this. For example, now you have to write way more questions than you would have, now you have an excuse to write crazy hard questions that shouldn't be at this level that are always there in past TJ tournaments, but most importantly, now not everyone is playing the same questions, and statistics become less meaningful.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by AKKOLADE »

Not to pile on, but I agree with Chris & Evan here and feel that I should point out that in the time I've been on hsqb, the number of times an event tried the separate questions thing and had it received well could probably be counted on Mordecai Brown's right hand.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by The Atom Strikes! »

I actually don't object to Naren's plan, because this area has reached the point that the elite teams are considerably above everyone else, and differentiation of these teams tends to require more difficulty-- for example, the Penn tournament's final was excellently appropriate for the two competing teams, and made for a more meaningful match.

Of course, this is contingent on the team's ability to produce the quality rounds in the time that you have left-- I would rather have regular-difficulty rounds of good quality than poor harder-difficulty rounds.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

Sure, we'll keep to uniform packets for all teams. I see your point about stats and time and such. We do intend to make the playoff rounds to differentiate between top teams, though. We'll try hard to keep bonus conversion at a reasonable level in the playoffs, because that can make a huge difference in differentiating between the top teams. Teams who are not in the championship bracket should expect to have to wait until the line or two before "FTP" to answer questions in the last 5 rounds.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

FredMorlan wrote:Not to pile on, but I agree with Chris & Evan here and feel that I should point out that in the time I've been on hsqb, the number of times an event tried the separate questions thing and had it received well could probably be counted on Mordecai Brown's right hand.
As the tournament director and editor for LOL HFT III, I'd like to add that it's better to spend your time ensuring that your consolation bracket bonuses do not have collegiate regular difficulty middle parts as easy parts (SORRY KIDS) than it is to write separate questions for both brackets.

(After all, Platonic ideal tossups should be able to provide good differentiation between teams of any caliber, even if elite teams might slightly prefer that those tossups be on The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters rather than Arnolfini's Getting Hitched, That Player. It's only the bonuses that truly might need to be different for ultimate fairness. Nonetheless, while I doubtless have more things broken inside of me than you do when it comes to making rational judgment calls, and so I probably made more errors in producing bonuses for two levels of play than you would, I do think that generally there's more work to be done in making sure that the set is as good as possible.)

Make the finals hard; that's a lot of fun, and it doesn't do the same work twice. But if you can have everyone who's playing a round playing the same packets, if at all possible, you will not regret doing so.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

I would like to chime in and say that I think it is in every tournament's best interest to keep the packet difficulty as uniform as possible across the board, and would strongly discourage tournaments from using multiple versions of rounds for that reason.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by BuzzerZen »

everyday847 wrote:Arnolfini's Getting Hitched, That Player
I am giving this as my answer to Arnolfini questions from now on.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

Just to clarify, we are not doing the whole different difficulty thing. We are going to make the rounds pretty difficult, especially towards the end, though.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

For those who tried to sign up in the past day or two, please check back to see if you are actually signed up. We had a bit of a problem in which an archive of the site was up instead of the current version.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by STPickrell »

closesesame wrote:...and the award for first registration goes to Robert E. Lee High School!
This is Lee-Springfield, right?
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

STPickrell wrote:
closesesame wrote:...and the award for first registration goes to Robert E. Lee High School!
This is Lee-Springfield, right?
Right.

Also, field update:

Falls Church (1)
James W. Robinson Jr. Secondary School (1)
Marshall H.S. (2)
Robert E. Lee High School (1)
State College Area High School (2)
The Covenant School (1)
Wilmington Charter (1)
Total: 9 teams
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

Field update time:

Collegiate School (3)
Falls Church (1)
Georgetown Day School (2)
James W. Robinson Jr. Secondary School (1)
Maggie Walker (3)
Marshall H.S. (2)
Robert E. Lee High School (1)
St. Stephens and St. Agnes School (1)
State College Area High School (2)
The Covenant School (1)
Walt Whitman (1)
Wilmington Charter (1)

Total: 19 Teams

Also, we are now officially with PACE, so the top whatever number of teams will advance to the PACE NSC.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

hwhite wrote:In addition, unlike past tournaments, we will be using mACF distribution but with 20 tossups with related bonuses.
What is the specific distribution here for this? Will you be tweaking mACF a little or sticking right to it?

Additionally, we're surely interested in coming. Let me get some more "yes" answers instead of "maybes" from my kids and i'll see if we're going to bring either 1 or 2 teams.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

Caesar Rodney HS wrote:
hwhite wrote:In addition, unlike past tournaments, we will be using mACF distribution but with 20 tossups with related bonuses.
What is the specific distribution here for this? Will you be tweaking mACF a little or sticking right to it?
We intend to stick to the standard mACF distribution.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by btressler »

closesesame wrote:Only 1 team registered, Tressler? *gasp*
OK. I need a clue.

How do I re-login and change our team count to 3?

EDIT: Never mind. I found the right link on the second try.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

The tournament is fast approaching, so don't forget to sign up!
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

All right, with 11 days to go, here's what the field's looking like:

Caesar Rodney High School (2)
Collegiate School (3)
Falls Church (1)
Georgetown Day School (2)
Gonzaga (1)
James W. Robinson Jr. Secondary School (1)
Maggie Walker (3)
Marshall H.S. (2)
Robert E. Lee High School (1)
South County Secondary (1)
St. Stephens and St. Agnes School (1)
State College Area High School (2)
The Covenant School (1)
WJ (1)
Walt Whitman (1)
Wilmington Charter (3)

Total: 26 teams

We are still aiming to have 12 rounds written, so sign up quickly!
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

A school named Pallet Town Prep Academy signed up. Unfortunately, I think it's a joke registration given that Ash Ketchum is from Pallet Town and no such school seems to exist when I do a Google search. If this school IS actually legit, could someone let me know before I delete it from our list?

That said, we only have 26 teams signed up. Please sign up if you haven't, and if you want to bring a D or E team or something, please do! I'm sure we can work something out price-wise. Sign up!
Last edited by closesesame on Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Kouign Amann »

St. Anselm's really would like to attend, but unfortunately we have our It's Academic taping that day.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Angry Babies in Love »

Ditto to Aidan. We'll be at your fall tourney next year though!
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by closesesame »

So Pallet Town Prep Academy is playing at the M.O.H.I.T. with a wacky name to unofficially play for their school. That explains a lot. So up the field to 27, with Pallet Town Prep Academy in the list.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

If you didn't catch my e-mail (i didn't get a response), i'll be happy to read at this tournament as i did in the Fall.

Still bringing two teams, for sure. See you on Saturday.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

Also, registration will start at 8, the tournament will hopefully start at 9, and we hope to end by 6, assuming 40-minute rounds and an hour-long lunch break.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

And here is our field:

Caesar Rodney High School (2)
Collegiate School (3)
Falls Church (1)
Georgetown Day School (2)
Gonzaga (1)
James W. Robinson Jr. Secondary School (1)
Longfellow (1)
Maggie Walker (3)
Mount Vernon High School (1)
Pallet Town Prep Academy (1)
Robert E. Lee High School (1)
South County Secondary (1)
St. Stephens and St. Agnes School (1)
State College Area High School (2)
Stuyvesant High School (1)
The Covenant School (1)
WJ (1)
Walt Whitman (1)
Wilmington Charter (3)
Winston Churchill High School (2)

Total: 30 teams

We will probably to five brackets of six followed by a bracketed playoff similar to what we did last time, except with half-packets to break the ties this time.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

If Fairfax County decides to cancel activities tomorrow, then obviously we can't have the tournament. Otherwise, we will still be hosting the tournament.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

So i assume we're still on?

See you there.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

Also, I recommend keeping an eye on this site, though it looks like the most we'll get are some showers.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

Stats can be found here.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by aestheteboy »

I'd like to apologize on behalf of my team for leaving early. I would have liked to stay and play, but my coach urgently needed to leave. This is the first time that this happened in the four years that I've known him, so I imagine that he had a very good reason for disrupting the tournament schedule. Again, I'm sorry for this.

The questions were pretty good, and they improved as the day progressed. Bonuses were variable, and some third parts were unnecessarily difficult. I liked the tossups over all, although there were some weak ones and a lot of biographical clues. The individual prizes were . . . better last year, IMO. The readers were very solid, and we had a much better moderator experience than in the fall tournament. Thanks for hosting.
Daichi - Walter Johnson; Vanderbilt; U of Chicago.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Whiter Hydra »

Final results:

1. Charter A
2. GDS A
3. State College A
4. Gov A

More stuff once I've relieved myself of my insomnia.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Sir Thopas »

Did you switch the finals and 3rd place game? SC and Gov were undefeated, as I saw it.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by at your pleasure »

The questions were quite good. I had the following four issues, however:
-The Pei tossup, which had four or five non-uinqley identifying clues, then a obscure building, then the rock and roll hall of fame. The Starry Night question that round or the next round was also problematic for similar reasons.
-I think that psudonyms came too early in the Kirkeggard question, but that could just be me.
-The Kaddish bonus should probably have stated "accept Kaddish for Naomi Ginsberg.
Douglas Graebner, Walt Whitman HS 10, Uchicago 14
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Sir Thopas »

Anti-Climacus wrote:-The Kaddish bonus should probably have stated "accept Kaddish for Naomi Ginsberg.
That's not what the poem is called, though.
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Re: M.O.H.I.T. at TJHSST (01/10/09)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

There were some question problems. Dubai isn't the capital of UAE. I didn't like the I.M Pei question much either, like Douglas said. I can't think of anything much more right now but really it wasn't a big deal, in retrospect.

Overall this was very well run. You guys did a great job. Moderators were generally very solid. No complaints at all about that. Things appeared to stay on time. YAY STATS (Taft is awesome).

We had a great time in one of our most successful competitions ever. Aside from one bad game we played, this was the best i've ever felt about how our A Team did.
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org
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