Texas '08-'09

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Texas '08-'09

Post by Diocletian »

I'm curious to see what others think of the field from Texas this year.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Maxwell Sniffingwell »

Diocletian wrote:I'm curious to see what others think of the field from Texas this year.
What IS the field from Texas this year?
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Diocletian »

cornfused wrote:
Diocletian wrote:I'm curious to see what others think of the field from Texas this year.
What IS the field from Texas this year?
Most of the time it seems like the only really competitive teams are St. John's, Bellaire, and LASA.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by ClemsonQB »

Diocletian wrote:
cornfused wrote:
Diocletian wrote:I'm curious to see what others think of the field from Texas this year.
What IS the field from Texas this year?
Most of the time it seems like the only really competitive teams are St. John's, Bellaire, and LASA.
According to Byko's 07'-08' rankings, you're forgetting a John Cooper team which had a 1-1 record vs. LASA, 1-0 vs. Bellaire and managed to make the top three at NAC.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by muleroid »

Having just returned from a tournament where we faced John Cooper I feel like I can safely say that they don't seem to be at the level they were last year.
Granted, they're still a decent team, but the lack of Chris White (whether due to graduation or just not showing up) was apparent.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by AKKOLADE »

Any word on how the state championship went?
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by muleroid »

State's been postponed until March 28.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by AKKOLADE »

muleroid wrote:State's been postponed until March 28.
Thanks!
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by New York Undercover »

Hi, I go to a high school in Texas and was just wondering (for next year) what tournament you are referring to. The only tournament my school went to this year was the one for qualifying for the NTAE, hosted at sam houston state.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by cvdwightw »

klebian wrote:Hi, I go to a high school in Texas and was just wondering (for next year) what tournament you are referring to. The only tournament my school went to this year was the one for qualifying for the NTAE, hosted at sam houston state.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by New York Undercover »

Blah It's disappointing how inactive this topic is. My school will hopefully attend a few TQBA events next year. We're an OK team at Chip's format (for most of this year we practiced 4 quarter- tossup, tossup/bonus, lightning, tossup- games), and I think we'll do somewhat decently at NTAE (after winning the QU-style SHSU tournament), but I fear that we'll be pretty sucky at NAQT format. We've only practiced a few NAQT matches as a team, because we've recently been trying to get used to PAC format because winning that would actually be nice (even though we acknowledge that it's not a great competition).
A large factor in play is that we lose a lot of potential points from the lack of math calculation tossups, because I'm the math guy and I'm decent at fast math (but having read other topics and played a few old NAQT matches with math tossups, I understand why there is a trend against these questions). But I'm trying to make up for that by filling our hole in literature, and I think in a few months of reading I will probably be a solidly average literature player. (more like, I hope)
I'm looking forward to playing a bunch of other teams- we've played bellaire and st johns in QU format, and fared reasonably well (0-1 to bellaire, 2-0 to st john's, in the two tournaments we went to) but I predict that at this stage, this wouldn't be the case in a NAQT style match.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

We're out here, and we definitely want Klein involved in TQBA. Right now, plans have been made for two Houston-area events in the fall, slated for September 26 and December 5. Every school counts as we try to bring Texas out of the Chip-format wilderness and finally into the 21st century.

I played against some awfully good Klein teams when I was in high school -- if coach Robinson is still running things there, the Klein names that properly date me would be Chinni Pokola and Grant Gavranovic -- And can even remember back to a Klein team that won Chip's TV tournament, I believe in 1989.

Of course, all that means that Chip's format was the only game in town when I was in school. But I'm going to be volunteering at HSNCT in a week, and I can tell you that practicing on NAQT format and getting used to pyramidal questions is a big deal for Texas schools transitioning from Chip.

If you have any questions about TQBA or any related matter, I'd be happy to field them.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by New York Undercover »

Mr Robinson still is the coach, yes, and he has pictures and state/nationals results up from his last 20 years on the wall in his room. Nice to look at.
We were actually considering going to the Holiday Hoedown (I believe Mr Robinson received a flier about it at the SHSU fall tournament) but it was, unfortunately, a SAT date and we were losing too much of our team. The 2009 date also conflicts with the SAT but hopefully at least none of our seniors will be taking the SAT in december.
Mr Robinson also said that we could probably host a tournament if TQBA wanted and it was convenient. I don't know how the process works for choosing a host school and stuff, and this is definitely only tentative, but I'm just putting that option out there.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by New York Undercover »

So I guess there aren't really that many posters from the Houston area? I know that LASA has a few guys on the forums, but I don't think I've really seen anyone from St. John's or Bellaire here (though I may just not be paying attention). Has the Texas circuit always been this (seemingly) weak? I mean, there are definitely some strong schools and that is clear from showings at HSNCT and Pace NSC but I feel like if there was a little more intrastate competition (and even intracity competition), we could be even stronger, as a state as a whole.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Diocletian »

klebian wrote:So I guess there aren't really that many posters from the Houston area? I know that LASA has a few guys on the forums, but I don't think I've really seen anyone from St. John's or Bellaire here (though I may just not be paying attention). Has the Texas circuit always been this (seemingly) weak? I mean, there are definitely some strong schools and that is clear from showings at HSNCT and Pace NSC but I feel like if there was a little more intrastate competition (and even intracity competition), we could be even stronger, as a state as a whole.
From my experience browsing these boards the only people who post are you and, very occasionally, a couple of us from LASA. In fact, one of the reasons I started this thread was to see if anyone else from Texas did come here so we could discuss/coordinate. Texas hasn't always been this weak (see St. John's winning HSNCT in '02) but we do have a very underdeveloped circuit given how populous the Houston-Dallas/FW-San Antonio-Austin area is, and it seems as if a large problem is the pervasiveness of :chip: and bad quiz bowl in general around here (that and the fact that, as far as I can tell, San Antonio has no quiz bowl to speak of). Anyway, it would be fantastic if you guys at Klein would come to some TQBA events next year, and I hope to see you there.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

Houston has atrophied considerably since Texaco's sponsorship of Chip ended, and TV went away with it. Still, it used to be that the only tournaments were Chip's city tournament, Huntsville, and then one or two others at Clear Lake or Spring Branch ISD.

St. John's had a three-year period where they were very good, winning HSNCT in 2002, and finishing third in 2003 and 2004.

As you know, 1997 Klein won Panasonic. They remain the last non-all-star team to win the event.

Texas teams had a number of good showings at Chip's nationals, including a stacked Memorial team winning it in 1996. Plano East had an excellent team in 1992-93, finishing as a semifinalist and quarterfinalist those two years; Temple was the 1993 runner-up, defeating No. 1 seed Plano East on the way to the final; Plano Senior High also fell to Temple, in the semifinals. If I remember correctly, Dulles also made a deep run in that tournament, posting an unthinkable win over Dorman that I witnessed.

So maybe 1993 was the peak of Texas quiz bowl. That's considerably before what is generally considered the modern era of quizbowl, marked by the prevalence of pyramidal questions and the exodus of elite teams from Chip nationals.

Klein and St. John's were both losing semifinalists at Chip in 2001, towards the tail end of the transitional era for Chip. El Paso High and John Cooper have posted Final Four performances at Chip nationals in the weakened-field era, in 2005 and 2008.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by New York Undercover »

Thanks for the responses (and congrats on being a sophomore all-star, thomas!). Well you can rest assured that I'll be doing my best to have us attending the tournaments (though for the sake of going to disney world again, we probably will still go to the SHSU tournament). Though we are only losing one senior, 5/6 of our team right now is juniors (obviously including me), so I'm going to see what I can do with the sophomores and freshmen who come to practice to get them maybe on the forums (or at the very least, studying and reading some packets). I'm a little surprised at the lethargy towards quizbowl; I'm involved in quite a few activities, and so far, quizbowl is by far the most exciting. It's nice to know that St. John's has done well at NAQT HSNCT in the past (not that they're not strong now; I'm sure they're quite a bit stronger than us and a 6-4 showing at NAQT is certainly respectable). I guess all I can do is hope that we too will attend HSNCT (can't attend PACE NSC due to graduation conflict), and this will inspire some underclassmen to keep the club (and Mr Robinson) away from Chip and QU in general.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by New York Undercover »

Also, Diocletian: what ACF events does LASA go to? (reading the other thread)
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Diocletian »

We went to ACF fall at OU this year, and we plan on going to fall, winter, and maybe regionals next year.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Diocletian »

Four of the five guys that LASA plays were only sophomores this year, right? You've certainly set a high standard, only dropping from tied-7th to tied-11th with such huge turnover from the previous year.

Hopefully, TQBA will be able to help you guys get battle-tested. I'm not really sure what to think of the field for next year; I know so little about our newcomers from St. Mark's, in particular.

Do you know any more specifics about your tournament schedule next year outside of our stuff?
Benji, Daniel, Aaron, and I were all sophomores this year (Shen was a junior). We definitely are open to playing as much good quiz bowl as we possibly can and will attend both TQBA events (is there any word on using HSAPQ questions next year) and ACF.

The field next year is going to be interesting since a lot of the traditionally stronger teams (especially St. John's and Bellaire but also Temple) are graduating everyone and will be in rebuild mode. I don't know a whole lot about St. Mark's, but I think that they are returning Stewart and Max and graduating Abhiram and Alex, which, just going on ppgs, means that they are graduating their 2nd and 4th best players and retaining their best and 3rd best. I definitely think they could be quite good.

My ranking of the Texas field next year:
1. LASA
2. St. Mark's- I think they are easily second based on the fact that they are returning half of what was a pretty good team.
3. St. John's/Bellaire- Definitely the two best b teams this year, I think each could become pretty good with some studying.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by New York Undercover »

Has TQBA considered using HSAPQ questions for next year? Or are NAQT sets going to continue to be used? I ask because, from what I read, NAQT IS Sets generally suffer from a lack of quality, where as HSAPQ sets are pretty much universally lauded. Not sure if cost is an issue, though it does appear that NAQT sets are more expensive than HSAPQ sets; on the other hand, it is true that using NAQT sets would mean qualification to HSNCT whereas using HSAPQ sets would not.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Diocletian »

We played a little HSAPQ at the prenationals event last year, and I know LASA would love to play more HSAPQ, but I don't know what other's views are or what TQBA is going to do.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

My presumption is that TQBA will keep using primarily NAQT questions due to their requirement for qualifying teams for HSNCT. NAQT takes teams from events that don't use their rules or format as long as they use their questions. But it doesn't work the other way around.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by New York Undercover »

From what I have been told, NAQT HSNCT qualification does not require using NAQT questions- I was in fact told that "you can not play a single tournament and send in a wildcard bid to naqt" and it will be accepted. As it is, (though obviously my say is minimal as I have not attended a TQBA competition) I know my team (and I would guess a number of other teams apart from LASA which appears to share my belief) would prefer to play on high quality questions, especially if it is true that we could qualify to HSNCT based on the results of HSAPQ questions. The website for qualification does appear to grudgingly accept other question providers. Hopefully this will be taken into consideration, thanks.

Edit: it appears that I'm mistaken in that a school cannot qualify for HSNCT through HSAPQ questions. The point about a wildcard bid does stand (for example, north myrtle beach of south carolina being accepted).
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

Few wild cards were accepted at HSNCT this year. They can fill their field of 192 easily, and will expect to do so indefinitely, I imagine.

I can't find anywhere in there where it says NAQT guarantees qualification from tournaments that don't use their questions. I see "Finishing in the top 15% of the field at a high school varsity tournament using NAQT questions" and "all other events that use questions provided by NAQT whether or not they use NAQT's official format and rules."

I see an exception made for state tournaments that does not apply to Texas.

Edit: Corrected for factual error.
Last edited by etchdulac on Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

etchdulac wrote:No wild cards were accepted at HSNCT this year. I don't know who would've told you otherwise. They filled their field of 192 without taking any wild cards, and will expect to do so indefinitely, I imagine.
They what? I'm pretty sure wild card bids from Caesar Rodney and, briefly, North Myrtle Beach were accepted.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

etchdulac wrote:No wild cards were accepted at HSNCT this year. I don't know who would've told you otherwise. They filled their field of 192 without taking any wild cards, and will expect to do so indefinitely, I imagine.

I can't find anywhere in there where it says NAQT guarantees qualification from tournaments that don't use their questions. I see "Finishing in the top 15% of the field at a high school varsity tournament using NAQT questions" and "all other events that use questions provided by NAQT whether or not they use NAQT's official format and rules."

I see an exception made for state tournaments that does not apply to Texas.
There's a difference between what he said (that qualification doesn't require NAQT questions) and what you dispute (that NAQT probably doesn't guarantee qualification from tournaments that do not use questions).
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Huang »

etchdulac wrote:No wild cards were accepted at HSNCT this year. I don't know who would've told you otherwise. They filled their field of 192 without taking any wild cards, and will expect to do so indefinitely, I imagine.
You're wrong. Dunbar B's bid was accepted until we decided to drop due to lack of interest due to other conflicts.

Edit: This was before Dunbar B qualified for real at NAQT State
Last edited by Huang on Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Yep, we missed qualifying "fo real" a bunch of times this year but were accepted as a wildcard very quickly in March i believe. Hopefully this year we won't need to do that again...
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

Ukonvasara wrote:
etchdulac wrote:No wild cards were accepted at HSNCT this year. I don't know who would've told you otherwise. They filled their field of 192 without taking any wild cards, and will expect to do so indefinitely, I imagine.
They what? I'm pretty sure wild card bids from Caesar Rodney and, briefly, North Myrtle Beach were accepted.
I could be wrong, but what I was told is that they did not have to take any wild cards beacuse their field filled out. Maybe they were talking about the wait list and said the wrong thing; maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
everyday847 wrote:There's a difference between what he said (that qualification doesn't require NAQT questions) and what you dispute (that NAQT probably doesn't guarantee qualification from tournaments that do not use questions).
Whatever the case is, it seems wisest not to rely on wild card bids when there always seem to be sufficient teams to fill out the field that earn bids in NAQT events.

In any case, the idea that "you can not play a single tournament and send in a wildcard bid to naqt" and it will be accepted" is misleading. Sure, they may consider you, but you're at the end of a long list that may not even get used. NAQT accepts wild cards from teams with year-long good results in tournaments against proven competition but somehow hasn't qualified. I don't think any Texas team that doesn't leave the state will get experience against a deep enough tournament field to warrant a wild card.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Huang »

etchdulac wrote: In any case, the idea that "you can not play a single tournament and send in a wildcard bid to naqt" and it will be accepted" is misleading. Sure, they may consider you, but you're at the end of a long list that may not even get used. NAQT accepts wild cards from teams with year-long good results in tournaments against proven competition but somehow hasn't qualified. I don't think any Texas team that doesn't leave the state will get experience against a deep enough tournament field to warrant a wild card.
Right, North Myrtle Beach sure did have "year-long good results in tournaments against proven competition".
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

I'm referring to Rodney. North Myrtle Beach was not at HSNCT, so I don't know why we are talking about them. All I know is that they were on the field list and then they were removed. If you have information on them, that would probably make a more useful post then what you've offered.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Tower Monarch »

etchdulac wrote:In any case, the idea that "you can not play a single tournament and send in a wildcard bid to naqt" and it will be accepted" is misleading. Sure, they may consider you, but you're at the end of a long list that may not even get used. NAQT accepts wild cards from teams with year-long good results in tournaments against proven competition but somehow hasn't qualified. I don't think any Texas team that doesn't leave the state will get experience against a deep enough tournament field to warrant a wild card.
The bottom line is, if Klein High wins (or places, say, second to LASA A) at an HSAPQ-written tournament (whose possibility was the origin of this discussion rather than "not play[ing] a single tournament"), then NAQT will almost certainly accept them, so it is entirely reasonable to offer HSAPQ events in the season. I don't know much (read: anything) about Texas Quizbowl Alliance, but there doesn't seem to be a real reason not to use HSAPQ for their tournaments. Keep in mind that North Myrtle Beach was granted a wild card bid because they won a local event among teams of which none of us have ever heard.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Huang »

etchdulac wrote:I'm referring to Rodney. North Myrtle Beach was not at HSNCT, so I don't know why we are talking about them. All I know is that they were on the field list and then they were removed. If you have information on them, that would probably make a more useful post then what you've offered.
What more do you want? Zach Foster's home address?

They went to zero notable tournaments yet were still accepted via wildcard bid by NAQT until they decided to drop out. If that's too difficult of a concept for you to understand, then I'm sorry. I really don't know how to put that in simpler terms or somehow offer more "information" than what I assumed was public knowledge.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by New York Undercover »

For what it's worth, Zach did make this post regarding why NMB was not at HSNCT: viewtopic.php?p=130199#p130199
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

Huang wrote:I really don't know how to put that in simpler terms or somehow offer more "information" than what I assumed was public knowledge.
Why on earth would that be public knowledge? Which state's forum do you mean to post in? I have never had any contact with anyone from NMB. Pulak posting that link is the first I've seen of why they disappeared from the field list, and I don't see why you'd assume a poster in this forum would have an encyclopedic knowledge of the message board's contents.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

klebian wrote:Has TQBA considered using HSAPQ questions for next year? Or are NAQT sets going to continue to be used? I ask because, from what I read, NAQT IS Sets generally suffer from a lack of quality, where as HSAPQ sets are pretty much universally lauded. Not sure if cost is an issue, though it does appear that NAQT sets are more expensive than HSAPQ sets; on the other hand, it is true that using NAQT sets would mean qualification to HSNCT whereas using HSAPQ sets would not.
Finally returning to the original issue: If you've really played enough NAQT sets to develop a general opinion about their quality, that's fine, though I don't know where Mr. Robinson has taken you that has used NAQT questions. The point is, we're still talking about getting schools like Klein away from tournaments with non-pyramidal questions to TQBA tournaments with pyramidal questions.

Texas is not at the stage where NAQT vs. HSAPQ is the pressing issue, honestly. It's getting away from Chip format.

If your experience with NAQT and HSAPQ questions is limited to criticisms you read on this board, then please, come try NAQT questions out. They are superior to the main alternative you find in this state.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Huang »

etchdulac wrote: Why on earth would that be public knowledge?
Message boards are public forums?
etchdulac wrote: Pulak posting that link is the first I've seen of why they disappeared from the field list, and I don't see why you'd assume a poster in this forum would have an encyclopedic knowledge of the message board's contents.
I'm sorry for your lack of knowledge?


Honestly though, you shouldn't be stating things like "NAQT never accepts wildcard bids", especially when they're untrue, to a high schooler who wishes to spend his money on good pyramidal questions instead of NAQT.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Tower Monarch »

etchdulac wrote:
Huang wrote:I really don't know how to put that in simpler terms or somehow offer more "information" than what I assumed was public knowledge.
Why on earth would that be public knowledge? Which state's forum do you mean to post in? I have never had any contact with anyone from NMB. Pulak posting that link is the first I've seen of why they disappeared from the field list, and I don't see why you'd assume a poster in this forum would have an encyclopedic knowledge of the message board's contents.
Well, I included my own summary of NMB twenty minutes ago, but I'm not sure why you told him to make a more useful post.
Anyway, is it possible for TQBA to host something that does not directly qualify top teams if there is demand and it has been shown that teams could still have a wild card bid if they do well there? (From your signature, I am assuming you would know the answer to this, the original question in this thread, but your posts in this and another thread [FWIW, I am a poster in this forum and I do have "encyclopedic knowledge of the message board's contents"] suggest you don't have control over that body).
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

I don't exactly understand why there can't be a bunch of NAQT tournaments that qualify for the HSNCT, and then a bunch of non-NAQT tournaments by HSAPQ to supplement them. The HSAPQ sets will still get teams bids to PACE Nationals, which, given the response from top teams this year, may be an even loftier tournament to win than the HSNCT, so that part of the argument I'm not sure holds up. Pretty much every other competitive circuit besides California seems to have a good number of NAQT sets so that people can get their nationals bids, and a good number of other sets as well. Also, the criticisms I've heard (and personally have) about IS sets from the last couple years are much more problematic than the criticisms I've heard about HSAPQ sets quality wise, so that part of the argument Pulak may have a point on. But, again, holding plenty of both would alleviate this problem. Pulak, would you ever consider having Klein host an HSAPQ tournament to add to the TQBA schedule? Getting that product out there might be a good step if you want to play more non-NAQT sets.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Diocletian »

For what it is worth, I do think that we should continue to play NAQT sets in Texas for a couple of reasons:
1. They (especially A-packets) can help bring in teams from Chip (think St. Mark's this year). For the sake of good tournaments, however, I would limit such use of A-packets to maybe the first few tournaments of the year.
2. No matter the wildcard process, Mr. Fontenot is right to say that the best way to qualify for HSNCT is to play and do well on actual NAQT questions.

I do, however, feel that Texas would benefit at both nationals from the more academic focus brought by playing on HSAPQ questions, since this would allow teams to see their weaknesses and address them rather than have their egos propped up by easy questions only to be shot down by nationals level competition.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

Huang wrote:I'm sorry for your lack of knowledge?
I'm sorry I don't have time to read every thread on this message board. Some of us have bills to pay.
Huang wrote:you shouldn't be stating things like "NAQT never accepts wildcard bids"
which I didn't say. I know they have accepted wild card teams in previous years. And so far, we've been able to establish that the 2009 field was at least 0.5% wild card teams. So I wouldn't focus on getting in as a wild card.
Huang wrote:to a high schooler who wishes to spend his money on good pyramidal questions instead of NAQT.
This high schooler, from all prior conversations, probably hasn't played a tournament with pyramidal questions, period. Pulak, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Diocletian »

I agree with Charlie. Ideally we would be able to do plenty of both. I also strongly encourage Klein to host an HSAPQ tournament if possible.

As for the readiness of the Texas field for the NAQT v. HSAPQ debate- while I agree that getting teams away from Chip is the primary concern, this is why we have A-packets and A-packet tournaments. To improve Texas quiz bowl overall, however, we will have to make Texas nationally competitive and this can only be done by having a nationally competitive field. Getting such a field, I believe, would be facilitated if we had questions that teams actually struggled on so as to motivate them to study more and become more versed in the academic canon.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Huang »

etchdulac wrote:So I wouldn't focus on getting in as a wild card.
I disagree because NAQT rarely rejects wildcard bids from what I've been told. I certainly could be wrong though.
etchdulac wrote: This high schooler, from all prior conversations, probably hasn't played a tournament with pyramidal questions, period. Pulak, correct me if I'm wrong.
He may not have played a pyramidal tournament but he has played old NAQT packets and has seen this year's HSAPQ packets. He also, from what I can tell, understands the concept of pyramidal questions. So he won't experience a "Oh my god these questions are longer and award knowledge over speed!" reaction and mindlessly flock to Texas NAQT tournaments without complaining about the large trash distribution and other horrors of NAQT packets.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

Tower Monarch wrote:Is it possible for TQBA to host something that does not directly qualify top teams if there is demand and it has been shown that teams could still have a wild card bid if they do well there? (From your signature, I am assuming you would know the answer to this, the original question in this thread, but your posts in this and another thread suggest you don't have control over that body).
Firstly, you are correct in saying that I have little influence in what TQBA does; TQBA's existence is largely the labor of one person, Chris Romero.

TQBA used HSAPQ questions during a segment of our pre-nationals event to give the teams in attendance a chance to sample them. Feedback was requested. TQBA is in the process of deciding if HSAPQ questions will become the standard for next season, but the early indications I've received is that TQBA tournaments will continue to use NAQT questions and HSAPQ questions will have an alternate application in connection with selections for the HSAPQ summer all-star event.

There are reasons beyond the NAQT qualification issues that TQBA is leaning towards sticking with NAQT questions at least for another year, and I don't think I can fairly sum up those reasons, mainly because I was only a part of one discussion on the topic. I would say though that feedback on that issue is still welcome.
Diocletian wrote:I also strongly encourage Klein to host an HSAPQ tournament if possible.
If Mr. Robinson is interested in hosting an event this year (Pulak and I have emailed a bit on this topic before), then that might be the best option. Of course, TQBA would kindly ask that it fall on a date we haven't set something for already.
Diocletian wrote:To improve Texas quiz bowl overall, however, we will have to make Texas nationally competitive and this can only be done by having a nationally competitive field. Getting such a field, I believe, would be facilitated if we had questions that teams actually struggled on so as to motivate them to study more and become more versed in the academic canon.
While I think that's the best attitude you can have, I think that TQBA's concern is that tournaments with difficult questions (dominated by a few teams that are used to the difficult questions) tend to chase off the majority of newcomer teams. An argument could be made that there has to be a better lure at first -- a gateway drug, perhaps? -- to bridge the gap for teams between Chip format and elite level questions.

For the two years you have left in high school, the "nationally competitive fields" you're going to find will be out of state at things like WoQ. But we're hoping that we can make progress.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by etchdulac »

Huang wrote:
etchdulac wrote:So I wouldn't focus on getting in as a wild card.
I disagree because NAQT rarely rejects wildcard bids from what I've been told. I certainly could be wrong though.
According to TQBA's ruling party, When we brought up the subject of a wild card with the director of high school events at NAQT, we were turned away without the team being evaluated due to the fact that the field was clearly going to fill with qualified teams at that point. That speaks only to the situation in 2009, but it wasn't a last-minute thing. In the past, it's probably true that NAQT has had plenty of wild cards. I'm pretty sure that one of Texas' seven teams at 2006 HSNCT was a wild card. But the conditions have changed a bit; HSNCT may stay at 192 or grow slightly next year (no inside info on that here, trust me), and they filled out just fine. I will ask Eric how many wild cards were in the final field.
Huang wrote:He may not have played a pyramidal tournament but he has played old NAQT packets and has seen this year's HSAPQ packets. He also, from what I can tell, understands the concept of pyramidal questions. So he won't experience a "Oh my god these questions are longer and award knowledge over speed!" reaction and mindlessly flock to Texas NAQT tournaments without complaining about the large trash distribution and other horrors of NAQT packets.
The opinions of the majority of Texas teams on NAQT's distribution and question quality are unknown, to be honest. I think the "horrors" of NAQT questions have been overblown since HSNCT by the focus on five or six bad questions spread across 25 packets. NAQT is by no means horrible as a whole. I don't like that the mathcalc is still in there, and I think trash at HSNCT is not a good idea, but those are my thoughts only.

Edit: Minor edits to clarify source.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Again, I don't understand why there needs to be a TQBA standard format in a way that the organization either solely focuses on NAQT or solely focuses on HSAPQ. There is no Virginia standard, no Southeast standard, etc. There is plenty of room in the year to run most of the NAQT sets, and there is also plenty of time in the year to run most of the HSAPQ sets in harmony.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Tower Monarch »

One thing I have noted while reading this thread is that there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of HSAPQ's difficulty. Their questions are not difficult and certainly not more so than NAQT. People who pay attention in high school honors classes can guarantee themselves 10 point bonus conversion, and those who practice on decent questions with some regularity can push 15. For tossups, every (or all but 1/2) answer should be something that comes up in the average high school-aged intellectual, and so with a little practice on the stuff that players don't recognize (1 practice a week on good questions would suffice here), the average team should be able to convert at least 3/4 of the answers by the end.
NAQT, on the other hand, often rewards knowledge of a trivial nature that an academic rarely encounters, meaning you need to practice on and study for their questions, and maybe you will break 20 points per bonus. Combined with large amounts of subjects for which difficulty is hard to gauge, NAQT questions continually result in average teams scoring poorly with few options on how to improve. I submit that it is both easier and more fulfilling to improve on HSAPQ questions than it is to do the same on NAQT questions, and that if ease and fulfillment are goals (as they should be) of an organization like TQBA or a school like Klein, then the choice of provider is relatively clear. I see know reason for the use of "difficult" here:
etchdulac wrote:While I think that's the best attitude you can have, I think that TQBA's concern is that tournaments with difficult questions (dominated by a few teams that are used to the difficult questions) tend to chase off the majority of newcomer teams. An argument could be made that there has to be a better lure at first -- a gateway drug, perhaps? -- to bridge the gap for teams between Chip format and elite level questions..
I will also, citing my own horrible performance on IS-85, posit that NAQT produces questions that are simply harder (probably harder to answer rather than harder to understand, but harder the same) than those of HSAPQ.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

We went to HSNCT on a wildcard bid and we never left the Commonwealth of Kentucky for any competitions. And while we may have been among the better teams in the state, we weren't exactly one of the top 3 teams or anything. As long as you've been competitive within your state, I think NAQT normally grants a wildcard bid even if a team doesn't travel outside of their state much.

And we applied for the wildcard bid only about a month before HSNCT too. We were on the waitlist for a week or two but moved up pretty quickly.
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Re: Texas '08-'09

Post by Tower Monarch »

etchdulac wrote:I think the "horrors" of NAQT questions have been overblown since HSNCT by the focus on five or six bad questions spread across 25 packets. NAQT is by no means horrible as a whole. I don't like that the mathcalc is still in there, and I think trash at HSNCT is not a good idea, but those are my thoughts only.
I have to say your first sentence probably reflects what you have admitted to be less than complete reading of the forum. I was one of many who was disgusted with IS-85 (way before HSNCT) and that was far from the first thread devoted to problems in NAQT sets. The second sentence is a true statement, but that is not the point: there is another, better option that is no more expensive out there. You can follow Charlie's advice of representing both writing sources, but it doesn't make sense to use what is likely the inferior product exclusively.
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