Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
Locked
User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by the return of AHAN » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:05 am

From a packet written in October, 2008, by everyone's favorite, Wheaton, IL-based question vendor rhyming with "Rest Chins a-bore"...

"Tell the state in which the following man-made attactions are located."

5.) Tomb of the Unknown Soldier
Answer: Pennsylvania
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
rjaguar3
Rikku
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:39 am

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by rjaguar3 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:39 am

Woody Paige wrote:From a packet written in October, 2008, by everyone's favorite, Wheaton, IL-based question vendor rhyming with "Rest Chins a-bore"...

"Tell the state in which the following man-made attactions are located."

5.) Tomb of the Unknown Soldier
Answer: Pennsylvania
Once we have our tournament on Saturday, I'll post the best rejected QG questions.
Greg (Vanderbilt 2012, Wheaton North 2008)

User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:36 pm

Guys, whether we like them or not, I'm concerned about the fact that in all likelyhood these questions are going to be used at a later date in places like Missouri. We still afford them the respect of not having their questions spoiled for different markets, which is no different than HSAPQ or NAQT.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

Ethnic history of the Vilnius region
Yuna
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:50 am
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Ethnic history of the Vilnius region » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:46 pm

Eh, nevermind, Triple Q will probably use this question again. They've been using it for at least 8 years; no need to stop now!
Eric D.
University of South Carolina Alum

User avatar
at your pleasure
Auron
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:56 pm

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by at your pleasure » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:57 pm

Actually, there is a Tomb of The Unkown Soldier in Philadelphia. It is a hose, but it is factually accurate.
Douglas Graebner, Walt Whitman HS 10, Uchicago 14
"... imagination acts upon man as really as does gravitation, and may kill him as certainly as a dose of prussic acid."-Sir James Frazer,The Golden Bough

http://avorticistking.wordpress.com/

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15276
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:04 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Free Energy wrote:Guys, whether we like them or not, I'm concerned about the fact that in all likelyhood these questions are going to be used at a later date in places like Missouri. We still afford them the respect of not having their questions spoiled for different markets, which is no different than HSAPQ or NAQT.
Came here to post this, but was beaten by Charlie Dees.
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by the return of AHAN » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:17 pm

Ah, but this question was in a packet that was part of a subscription of practice questions. Are we concerned that QG is recycling questions in their "practice" products as part of their competition packets in the same year? What if I point out bad questions from 2 years ago? Is that different or same? Because they could just as easily trot out a question from an OLD packet. And if THAT'S the case, we should never talk about anyone's questions, ever.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
at your pleasure
Auron
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:56 pm

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by at your pleasure » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:27 pm

What if I point out bad questions from 2 years ago? Is that different or same?
I'm pretty sure that even QG has not sunk to such lows as recycling last year's questions. And if they have, their question security is shot to hell anyways.
Douglas Graebner, Walt Whitman HS 10, Uchicago 14
"... imagination acts upon man as really as does gravitation, and may kill him as certainly as a dose of prussic acid."-Sir James Frazer,The Golden Bough

http://avorticistking.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Auroni
Auron
Posts: 3010
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:23 pm
Location: Brooklyn

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Auroni » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:43 pm

Anti-Climacus wrote:
What if I point out bad questions from 2 years ago? Is that different or same?
I'm pretty sure that even QG has not sunk to such lows as recycling last year's questions.
YOUR ARE PROBABLY WRONG

yeah, just because companies like QG operate under a veneer of professionalism doesn't mean that they won't get lazy and do exactly this.
Auroni Gupta
UIUC
ACF

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by the return of AHAN » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:48 pm

but my initial point was, are we concerned that QG is reusing questions from their "middle school practice" subscriptions in competition packets?
Actually, I thought the "practice" questions they sold were effectively last year's questions, which, one would think, would preclude them from appearing in 2008-09 competition sets.

As for Pennsylvania question, that's the Tomb of the Unknown Revolutionary War Soldier. There's also a Tomb of the Unknown Confederate Soldier in Biloxi, MS. I could argue MS should be acceptable, then. Unfortunately, our association has no rule to deal with bad questions the way the IHSA does, other than to say the moderator can accept alternative answers if they're 100% sure they're right about it.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:12 pm

I'll throw it in here - it's been confirmed 100% that Platypus repeats questions from on a cyclic basis, so lay off them in this thread, if you're unfortunate enough to have some on your hands.
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:31 pm

but my initial point was, are we concerned that QG is reusing questions from their "middle school practice" subscriptions in competition packets?
Actually, I thought the "practice" questions they sold were effectively last year's questions, which, one would think, would preclude them from appearing in 2008-09 competition sets.
You'll notice that you didn't tell us any of this in your first post. In fact, all you said was that the packet was written in October 2008, which is pretty reasonable then to assume that that means the packet was used this season in a tournament. While I am not a moderator, it seems that if you had just told us this up front, then I wouldn't have become worried about local Missouri tournaments being compromised if anyone were to stumble on this thread.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

User avatar
Captain Sinico
Auron
Posts: 2840
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: Champaign, Illinois

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Captain Sinico » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:54 pm

Okay, here's the thing. I'm not sure a company that repeats questions in distinct sets (i.e. sets such that no team should reasonably hear both) is entitled to the protection we grant, say, NAQT, HSAPQ or other providers that produce distinct sets to be used at disparate times. If it's a company's policy to use questions sold as practice questions in competitive sets, they themselves are not making a good-faith effort to maintain question security and they have no right to expect the same from us.
So, I'd say that, unless the set itself or some distinct derivative* of it is to be used later, I don't see how anyone can fault you for discussing that set. After all, all you're doing is leveling the playing field in an actual sense: anyone who's willing to obtain this information would already have it.

MaS

*I have in mind here something like Div. II SCT's set, which at least used to contain a number of questions from one of the IS sets. What I mean to say is that you ought not publicly discuss Div. II SCT's set in that case even supposing that set itself won't be re-used later because it explicitly contains stuff from an IS set that presumably will be.
Mike Sorice
Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
ACF
IHSSBCA
PACE

User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:06 pm

My concern is that in my experience with these companies, they will reformat their questions within the same season for different markets (for example, when I was playing QG in high school I distinctly remember every math calculation being written with the obvious intent of having 30 seconds to complete it, which is not the rule in Missouri but is the rule in Illinois, and some other distributional problems that would have made sense in IHSA but not MSHSAA. Similarly, I remember Shawn Pickrell produced 36 MSHSAA format matches last year out of the VHSL stuff he had running at the same time). Perhaps we should be expecting them to announce publicly that these questions are going to be used later in the season, but my experience is that these companies have no gauge of what the community expects of them, so it's hard tell them to do that (and they probably don't even know these boards exist).
The simple solution though would be to just say "this is from a practice set" or "this is from a tournament last year" before discussing these questions, no?
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

User avatar
Important Bird Area
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 5522
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:33 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:01 pm

Captain Scipio wrote:Div. II SCT's set, which at least used to contain a number of questions from one of the IS sets. What I mean to say is that you ought not publicly discuss Div. II SCT's set in that case even supposing that set itself won't be re-used later because it explicitly contains stuff from an IS set that presumably will be.
The last DII SCT set which contained overlapping content with an IS set was the 2007 SCT (shared with IS #66). That being said: you still shouldn't talk about the SCT set in public because NAQT will be using the DII version for high school events later in the spring.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF

"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred

User avatar
rjaguar3
Rikku
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:39 am

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by rjaguar3 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:19 am

Getting back on topic:

Two pictures from broadcast WRAL Brain Game episodes.

Image

Image
Greg (Vanderbilt 2012, Wheaton North 2008)

User avatar
Deviant Insider
Auron
Posts: 4631
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Deviant Insider » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:18 am

Awesome. They just gave away the location of the secret Richard Nixon NASA Center, which we now know is in the Gulf of Mexico.

I can only hope that the answer to the second one was either Hyperbolic or six degree defect.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by the return of AHAN » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:40 pm

From a recent bonus question part;
"Original meaning of the acronym R.I.P." Answer stated on page, "Rest in Peace"

Answer given by my Latin-taking frosh/soph team; "Requiescat in pace"

Any guesses as to how the moderator ruled???????
Thank goodness it wasn't a close game.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
rjaguar3
Rikku
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:39 am

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by rjaguar3 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:42 pm

Woody Paige wrote:From a recent bonus question part;
"Original meaning of the acronym R.I.P." Answer stated on page, "Rest in Peace"

Answer given by my Latin-taking frosh/soph team; "Requiescat in pace"

Any guesses as to how the moderator ruled???????
Thank goodness it wasn't a close game.
Acronym questions need the death they truly deserve.
Greg (Vanderbilt 2012, Wheaton North 2008)

User avatar
rchschem
Yuna
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:36 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by rchschem » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:39 pm

rjaguar3 wrote:Getting back on topic:

Two pictures from broadcast WRAL Brain Game episodes.
No fair picking on Brain Game. The fruit hang too low. For example, "Humphrey Bogart is a ____."
Eric Grunden, Research Triangle High School/NCATA

User avatar
rjaguar3
Rikku
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:39 am

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by rjaguar3 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:45 pm

rchschem wrote:
rjaguar3 wrote:Getting back on topic:

Two pictures from broadcast WRAL Brain Game episodes.
No fair picking on Brain Game. The fruit hang too low. For example, "Humphrey Bogart is a ____."
I'm curious. What was the answer to that question?
Greg (Vanderbilt 2012, Wheaton North 2008)

User avatar
Sir Thopas
Auron
Posts: 1330
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:10 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Sir Thopas » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:35 pm

rjaguar3 wrote:
rchschem wrote:
rjaguar3 wrote:Getting back on topic:

Two pictures from broadcast WRAL Brain Game episodes.
No fair picking on Brain Game. The fruit hang too low. For example, "Humphrey Bogart is a ____."
I'm curious. What was the answer to that question?
playa
Guy Tabachnick
Hunter '09
Brown '13

http://memoryofthisimpertinence.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Nine-Tenths Ideas
Auron
Posts: 1549
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:14 pm
Location: MD

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:58 pm

dead guy
Isaac Hirsch
University of Maryland '14
Never Gonna Play Again

User avatar
cornfused
Auron
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:22 pm
Location: Des Moines, IA

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by cornfused » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:48 pm

capricorn
Greg Peterson

Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07

"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne

User avatar
Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant
Yuna
Posts: 849
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:05 pm
Location: Evanston, IL

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:52 pm

smoker
Farrah Bilimoria
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)

User avatar
Down and out in Quintana Roo
Auron
Posts: 2907
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Camden, DE
Contact:

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:19 pm

biped
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org

User avatar
Kouign Amann
Forums Staff: Moderator
Posts: 1134
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:44 am
Location: Morristown, NJ

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Kouign Amann » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:51 pm

Caesar Rodney HS wrote:featherless biped
Fixed by Plato.
Aidan Mehigan
St. Anselm's Abbey School '12
Columbia University '16 | University of Oxford '17 | UPenn GSE '19

User avatar
Down and out in Quintana Roo
Auron
Posts: 2907
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Camden, DE
Contact:

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:18 pm

Ah darnit i knew i was wrong somewhere!
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by the return of AHAN » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:34 pm

Please assess the correctness of the following question gleaned from last year's HAVOC:

This hero’s many exploits include defending Oedipus, going on the voyage of the Argonauts, and hunting the Calydonian boar. His second wife Phaedra’s love for his son Hippolytus is his chief cause of misfortune. He also killed such bandits as Procrustes and married the Amazon queen Hippolyta. Traditionally the hero of Attica, in literature he appears as the duke of Athens. Name this Greek hero who abandoned Ariadne after slaying the Minotaur.
Answer: Theseus

My assistant, who coaches the Certamen team, swears both parts I've bolded are wrong, relative to the answer space. Can anyone settle this?
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Awehrman
Wakka
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Marietta, OH

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Awehrman » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:41 pm

No, those are both accurate. Jason and the argonauts all participated in the Calydonian Boar hunt, and Theseus was an Argonaut. He may be confusing the Calydonian Boar with Heracles's Erymanthian Boar.
Andy Wehrman
(formerly of Arkansas and Northwestern)

User avatar
AndyShootsAndyScores
Yuna
Posts: 806
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:33 pm
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Contact:

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:12 pm

Awehrman wrote:No, those are both accurate. Jason and the argonauts all participated in the Calydonian Boar hunt, and Theseus was an Argonaut. He may be confusing the Calydonian Boar with Heracles's Erymanthian Boar.
Actually, Theseus isn't usually counted amongst the crew of the Argo, but he and Pirithous did take part in the hunt of the Boar. It wasn't just the Argonauts who took part in the hunt. So, the first part is wrong, second is correct.
Andy Knowles
Brindlee Mountain, '08
University of Alabama, '12

User avatar
Pilgrim
Tidus
Posts: 637
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: Edmonton

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Pilgrim » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:15 pm

From Edith Hamilton's mythology:

"[Theseus] was one of the men who sailed on the Argo to find the Golden Fleece. He took part in the great Calydonian Hunt..."

So they're not completely wrong, but they're not good clues either, since they can apply to so many people.
Trevor Davis
University of Alberta
CMU '11

cdcarter
Yuna
Posts: 945
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:06 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by cdcarter » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:03 pm

AndyShootsAndyScores wrote:
Awehrman wrote:No, those are both accurate. Jason and the argonauts all participated in the Calydonian Boar hunt, and Theseus was an Argonaut. He may be confusing the Calydonian Boar with Heracles's Erymanthian Boar.
Actually, Theseus isn't usually counted amongst the crew of the Argo, but he and Pirithous did take part in the hunt of the Boar. It wasn't just the Argonauts who took part in the hunt. So, the first part is wrong, second is correct.
Theseus sure was on the Argo, perhaps not as crew, but its fairly safe to say he went on that voyage. However, neither clue is unique at all!
Christian Carter
Minneapolis South High School '09 | Emerson College '13
PACE Member (retired)

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by the return of AHAN » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:08 pm

cdcarter wrote:
AndyShootsAndyScores wrote:
Awehrman wrote:No, those are both accurate. Jason and the argonauts all participated in the Calydonian Boar hunt, and Theseus was an Argonaut. He may be confusing the Calydonian Boar with Heracles's Erymanthian Boar.
Actually, Theseus isn't usually counted amongst the crew of the Argo, but he and Pirithous did take part in the hunt of the Boar. It wasn't just the Argonauts who took part in the hunt. So, the first part is wrong, second is correct.
Theseus sure was on the Argo, perhaps not as crew, but its fairly safe to say he went on that voyage. However, neither clue is unique at all!
What about when combined with defending Oedipus? The first line mentioned those 3 things all together.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Galstaff, Sorceror of Light
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:40 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:12 pm

cdcarter wrote:
AndyShootsAndyScores wrote:
Awehrman wrote:No, those are both accurate. Jason and the argonauts all participated in the Calydonian Boar hunt, and Theseus was an Argonaut. He may be confusing the Calydonian Boar with Heracles's Erymanthian Boar.
Actually, Theseus isn't usually counted amongst the crew of the Argo, but he and Pirithous did take part in the hunt of the Boar. It wasn't just the Argonauts who took part in the hunt. So, the first part is wrong, second is correct.
Theseus sure was on the Argo, perhaps not as crew, but its fairly safe to say he went on that voyage. However, neither clue is unique at all!
Yeah, Chris, that's why I took them out of the very first clue, which is where they were when this TU was first submitted to me, IIRC. At the time I was fairly certain the Oedipus clue was unique, especially when combined with those two, but I may be mistaken in that... This year they wouldn't have been in there at all (at least not without mentioning specifics about his actions in regards to either), since I actually somewhat know what I'm doing this year (as opposed to last season, when I probably had no business editing two thirds of a tournament). There are problems with that set, but I'm fairly certain factual inaccuracy is not one of them.
Sam (Sarah Angelo) Luongo,
Maggie L. Walker Governor's School 2010 / UVA 2014 / VCU School of Education 2016
President, PACE
Member, ACF

User avatar
Captain Sinico
Auron
Posts: 2840
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: Champaign, Illinois

Re: Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

Post by Captain Sinico » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:45 pm

Woody Paige wrote:What about when combined with defending Oedipus? The first line mentioned those 3 things all together.
Theseus appears as the King of Athens and defends Oedipus in Oedipus at Colonus. That's probably the most unambiguous of the three clues.
It's not wise to pontificate off-the-cuff about myth, usually, because even authoritative sources will indicate a high degree of variance. For example, some sources do not place Theseus among the Argonauts, while others do, as per the earlier Hamilton citation. So, the lead-in isn't categorically wrong, but a better one might be found (and apparently was?)

MaS
Mike Sorice
Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
ACF
IHSSBCA
PACE

Locked