Masonic Sectionals 2/21

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Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Deviant Insider » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:12 pm

The bracket at New Trier:
Stevenson vs Bye
Fenton vs Maine South

Fenwick vs Schaumburg
Fremd vs Whitney Young

New Trier vs Hubbard
Saint Ignatius vs Riverside Brookfield

Saint Viator vs Trinity
Palatine vs Leyden
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Byko » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:54 pm

Shcool wrote:The bracket at New Trier:
Stevenson vs Bye
Fenton vs Maine South

Fenwick vs Schaumburg
Fremd vs Whitney Young

New Trier vs Hubbard
Saint Ignatius vs Riverside Brookfield

Saint Viator vs Trinity
Palatine vs Leyden
So David, will your team be ready for a Saint Viator Semifinal Showdown?

Yeah, these are done by random draw, aren't they?
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by BGSO » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:13 pm

I don't think so... they look pretty calculated to me. With maybe the exception of Stevenson getting the bye and not NT.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by JackGlerum » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:16 pm

How many games are guaranteed for this?

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by BGSO » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:34 pm

It's a double elimination, so two, unless there is some clause I'm not aware of.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:56 pm

BGSO wrote:It's a double elimination, so two, unless there is some clause I'm not aware of.
Two is correct. In terms of maximum number of games, the champion will go 4-0, unless it's Stevenson who would go 3-0 with a bye. The two teams in the consolation championship actually end up playing 5 games total.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Deviant Insider » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:57 pm

The brackets are drawn up by Dale Thayer, who runs the tournament statewide. I am not sure how much information he has access to, but he does try to seed the teams at the Sectional level to allow for the top teams to play each other in the Semis and Final. At State, he does the opposite to make sure that their award money is spread out across the state and schools of different sizes.
The regional sites are located as follows:
Regional #01 at Lena/ Regional #09 at Eureka
Regional #02 at Rockford/ Regional #10 at Petersburg
Regional #03 at Winnetka/ Regional #11 at Springfield
Regional #04 at Morrison/ Regional #12 at Decatur
Regional #05 at Wheaton/ Regional #13 at Danville
Regional #06 at Moline/ Regional #14 at Greenville
Regional #07 at Seneca/ Regional #15 at Effingham
Regional #08 at Chillicothe/ Regional #16 at Carbondale

When the 16 Regional Champions advance to the State Tournament, the pairings will be as shown below:
Upper half of the bracket/ Lower half of the bracket
Reg. #02 vs Reg. #07/ Reg. #09 vs Reg. #11
Reg. #03 vs Reg. #05/ Reg. #14 vs Reg. #16
Reg. #01 vs Reg. #04/ Reg. #10 vs Reg. #12
Reg. #06 vs Reg. #08/ Reg. #13 vs Reg. #15
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Deviant Insider » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:02 pm

1. New Trier
2. Stevenson
3. Saint Viator
4. Schaumburg
Consolation: Maine South

Our match against Viator was very close and could have easily gone either way.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by BGSO » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:35 pm

Schaumburg? We haven't played them this year, but I can tell you that they are not better the Maine South, was MS's side harder than Schaumburg?
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:36 pm

MS hit Stevenson in Round 2. That said, MS gets more cash than Schaumburg.

Auburn Sectional results:
1. Auburn
2. Lake Zurich
3. Hononegah
4. Antioch
Cons: Boylan
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:41 pm

How were the questions?
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Tegan » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:23 pm

At WW-S

1. WW-S
2. IMSA
3. Latin
4. Geneva
Consolation: ????? (maybe NN)



edit: grammar

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Tegan » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:27 pm

I will say this: after a few weeks of using a different format, these matches felt like they took forever. Using only 20 questions, AND having an entire round eliminated because of no-shows, we played only five rounds between 9am and 2 pm.

With only 11 teams, the first round of the consolation bracket was eliminated, leaving the first round, quarters, rat-tailed consolation quarters, semis, and finals.

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:42 pm

Tegan wrote:I will say this: after a few weeks of using a different format, these matches felt like they took forever. Using only 20 questions, AND having an entire round eliminated because of no-shows, we played only five rounds between 9am and 2 pm.

With only 11 teams, the first round of the consolation bracket was eliminated, leaving the first round, quarters, rat-tailed consolation quarters, semis, and finals.
This is pretty much exactly what happened at Auburn. I am all of a sudden dreading Regionals.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Deviant Insider » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:50 pm

All results are up.

As far as the timing was concerned, these rounds took about 45-50 minutes each with good moderators. If you're going to State, bring something to read, since they only have four rooms going at a time and some of the moderators may have trouble keeping things to 50 minutes per match.

Brad's right about IHSA Regionals--make the matches 50% longer and put them on a week night, and that's a long 3-4 rounds.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by AKKOLADE » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:32 pm

Do just the Regional Champions qualify for Masonic states?
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Deviant Insider » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:40 pm

Yes. Those 16 teams should now be qualified for PACE. They will go against each other in one week in Chatham.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Deviant Insider » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:09 pm

Round 1 matches at State in bracket order:
Auburn vs St Bede
New Trier vs WWS
Winnebago vs Riverdale
Quincy vs Peoria Christian
Normal U High vs Springfield
Belleville West vs Carbondale
New Berlin vs Warrensburg-Latham
St Joseph-Ogden vs Farina South Central
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by at your pleasure » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:14 pm

As far as the timing was concerned, these rounds took about 45-50 minutes each with good moderators.
How is that possible? I had no idea Illinois format was that inefficient.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:43 pm

30 second conferral four part block bonuses really take up a lot of time.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by at your pleasure » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:55 pm

30 second conferral four part block bonuses really take up a lot of time.
I think you just came up with another reason that ACF format bonuses would work better-you would actually have more time to confer, as you would be given the same amount of time(30 seconds total) to answer fewer parts.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by mark vigil » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:45 am

So WWS and New Trier are playing in the first round. It seems like both teams deserve a little bit nicer of a first match then that

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Edward Elric » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:29 pm

mark vigil wrote:So WWS and New Trier are playing in the first round. It seems like both teams deserve a little bit nicer of a first match then that
You would say that Mark.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by harpersferry » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:31 pm

that bracket is very similar to last years. I believe we played NT in the second round after they had to beat WN and we played Carbondale for the final. Seems like he's sticking with the handicap the big schools scheme?
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by mlaird » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:53 pm

Anti-Climacus wrote:
As far as the timing was concerned, these rounds took about 45-50 minutes each with good moderators.
How is that possible? I had no idea Illinois format was that inefficient.
This being the first real IHSA tournament I've read this year, I also dreaded anytime a tossup went dead, because, my god, 10 seconds is an eternity to wait for no one to buzz in. Luckily, teams I read for rarely let things go dead.

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by JackGlerum » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:35 pm

mark vigil wrote:So WWS and New Trier are playing in the first round. It seems like both teams deserve a little bit nicer of a first match then that
Irving Alva Edison Hobophone Inventor wrote:that bracket is very similar to last years. I believe we played NT in the second round after they had to beat WN and we played Carbondale for the final. Seems like he's sticking with the handicap the big schools scheme?
Not that you are wrong to wonder/complain, but every year someone makes the "why do all the southern/central teams get a cakewalk to the finals" argument and every year they get the same response: This tournament isn't designed to determine the best team--it's designed to give schools with less budget and less exposure some money.

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Tegan » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:03 pm

As was explained to me (and I have no idea if this is the absolute truth or not), there were some pretty upset people when New Trier and Maine South made it to the finals three years ago, and that there was an attempt to make suer that this would not happen again.

While my team was in need of that money, I would prefer that they give the money to another team and let the better teams fight it out.

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Matt Weiner » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:04 pm

JackGlerum wrote:This tournament isn't designed to determine the best team
I think we have a word for that...
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Siverus Snape » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:48 pm

JackGlerum wrote:This tournament isn't designed to determine the best team--it's designed to give schools with less budget and less exposure some money.
I think that for the Masons, the ideal situation would be one in which the best team did in fact win but the other money-earning places went to less strong programs. It is designed to determine the best team; it isn't designed to make any sort of meaningful ranking of the other teams, which is where the NSC steals my heart.
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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Tegan » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:57 pm

Siverus Snape wrote:
JackGlerum wrote:This tournament isn't designed to determine the best team--it's designed to give schools with less budget and less exposure some money.
I think that for the Masons, the ideal situation would be one in which the best team did in fact win but the other money-earning places went to less strong programs. It is designed to determine the best team; it isn't designed to make any sort of meaningful ranking of the other teams, which is where the NSC steals my heart.
Siva, except for the money, and I'm not sure you are aware of this, you have quoted almost verbatim the IHSA philosophy on its state tournaments.

On a side note, I thought because of the geographic advancement, and intentionally bracketing most of the good teams together, that PACE had stopped using Masonics as an automatic qualifier? I mean of the 16 state qualifiers, I would say no more than 4 are teams that would have any prospect of a good (not strong, but good) showing at any national tournament.

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Captain Sinico » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:30 pm

Anti-Climacus wrote:
30 second conferral four part block bonuses really take up a lot of time.
I think you just came up with another reason that ACF format bonuses would work better-you would actually have more time to confer, as you would be given the same amount of time(30 seconds total) to answer fewer parts.
The official IHSA format is 30/30 (or at least used to be... I think?!) so that goes part of the way toward explaining what takes so long.
Bear in mind that what's on the table now isn't to reduce the total conferring time, so I don't expect a shift to part-by-part rebounding to make things go much faster, since the slowest rooms are still going to take 30 seconds on every bonus. If anything, things might even go a touch slower, since part-by-part will require multiple prompts rather than just one.

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Chathamite » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:00 pm

Congratulations to all of the teams that qualified for the Masonic State Tournament at Chatham Glenwood High School. We look forward to hosting returning schools from last year and to all schools newly qualified.

We again are fortunate to have exceptional moderators again this year, David Riley, Matt Laird, Barron Robinson, and Cathy Groesch. All of them are well versed in Masonic and IHSA rules and their expertise is greatly appreciated. The quality of questions I’m sure will be outstanding and the competition will be exciting.

For those who enjoy Scholastic Bowl, this is an excellent chance to watch sixteen teams attempt to win the Masonic Championship and build momentum for the IHSA Regional Tournaments. If you are in the Chatham/Springfield area, please take the opportunity to attend the tournament!

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Tegan » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:13 pm

Captain Scipio wrote: The official IHSA format is 30/30 (or at least used to be... I think?!) so that goes part of the way toward explaining what takes so long.
It still is, though outside of the IHSA State Series and one conference, no one actually uses 30/30 to my knowledge (20/20 is the standard for virtually everyone else, as it was with the Masonic Regionals and State to come).
Captain Scipio wrote:Bear in mind that what's on the table now isn't to reduce the total conferring time, so I don't expect a shift to part-by-part rebounding to make things go much faster, since the slowest rooms are still going to take 30 seconds on every bonus. If anything, things might even go a touch slower, since part-by-part will require multiple prompts rather than just one.
I must very politely disagree. This makes the assumption that a team will take the whole ten seconds on every part of every bonus, or on enough parts that it does not compensate for the extra prompting. Prompting, if done correctly, should add very little time, and would be typically compensated by the time saved on the very easy parts.

I have read a great many e-mails that have been flying between people opposed to making the change over. A lot of the discussion that is countering this move is the fact that some teams attended a tournament that, based on what I have heard, the moderators (on the whole) read slow, and did not enforce the time limits as they should. In those situations, it will add time.

It takes time to adjust. I remember vividly the first time I read at NAQT. I think I got through 16 questions in the time limit (a horribly low number to get through). When tournaments are read by mods with experience in the format, time will be saved. Now, I can typically get through 21-22 in that format.

As I commented above, the Masonic rounds seemed to me to take an eternity to get through, despite the fact they were the same number of questions as the past two tournaments I have moderated at (and those tournaments had rebounds, and required prompting). 20/20 in the other format was about 30 minutes. 20/20 in standard Illinois format went a lot closer to 45 minutes. The tossups were not the reason the tournament went long; the bonuses just took forever.

Beyond that ..... and this has nothing to do with the Masons, after two weeks of faster paced quizbowl, this tournament was less fun to be involved with. I was honored to serve, and especially honored to work for a former teacher of mine, but it just seemed to drag.

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Re: Masonic Sectionals 2/21

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:58 pm

Masonic State Results!

Champions: Carbondale
2nd place: Auburn
3rd place: Peoria Christian
4th place: Warrensburg Latham
Consolation: New Trier
Consolation runner up: Wheaton Warrenville South
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