IHSA regional assignments

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JackGlerum
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by JackGlerum » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:19 pm

I think one of them was HDG = hot dipping galvanization.

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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Deviant Insider » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:19 pm

I think they were HDF, HDG, PVC, SAE, and the W in W40.

I don't blame the writers for questions like these--I blame the distribution. I am going to propose this year that we eliminate miscellaneous questions entirely.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by BGSO » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:22 pm

While you're at it you want to get rid of spelling and Grammar?
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Bonito » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:30 pm

Ah, that explains the range of tossups;
Most of the music/art history tossups were great(...landscapes?), and probably made the day in my opinion.
Even though the first lit question I witnessed was something like "Name this protagonist of a 5part work called Leatherstocking Tales"(it went dead o:), a highlight of one game was not buzzing until the last line of the George Eliot tossup. Thank you, whoever wrote that.

Unfortunately, I think the biggest problem a few teams have with the extended pyramidal questions promoted by the 'elite' is that they take forever with an inexperienced reader. In 45 minute rounds, we were lucky to get through 20 of the 30question set. Stumbling over pyramidal arts questions with long foreign 8syllabled names in them prompts frustration amongst the teams who don't get the question anyways. From experience, this is why most people were more enthused on misc questions.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by jonah » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:32 pm

Realistically, what are the prospects of either or both of those things actually happening?
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Dan-Don » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:48 pm

tegan wrote:St. Viator lost. I have seen this team grow and get better over the season. This team was as dirt broke as any from anywhere. They funded their team out of their own pocket. I had said that the two amazing things to see this year were how utterly tough Carbondale had become and St. Viator coming into their own as a respected and accomplished team in the community.

I wasn't in a good mood after seeing that. Four points means any single question that came up could have swung the match. All I could think about after seeing that my fool mistakes had better not have cost them. That's not the kind of thing that you easily get to say "sorry" for.
Mr. Egan,

I think I speak for the team when I say the last 24 hours have been filled with sorrow and frustration. And reading this post was the first ray of sunshine. You are one of the most respected men, if not the most, in Illinois Scholastic Bowl and your praise means the world to us. Thank you. Please rest assured that we do not hold you personally responsible for our loss. I have no doubts that you wrote the best questions in those packets.

Now, Round 3... Tossups like "Fielding" and "Queen Victoria" were appreciated. But they were really the only legit History and Lit questions in the round. The rampant computational math, home ec, Illinois-trivia, language arts, etc. were unfortunate. However, the blame doesn't fall on the writers but rather the IHSA and its distro. This was my frist experience with IHSA questions and I have next year to win a regional. But the seniors don't have that chance and I feel terrible.

Two particularly frustrating things for me (these are not complaints just anecdotes): I am currently reading Lord of the Flies. I was only 18 pages in before the game, but I knew all the parts of that bonus except for the twins, Sam and Eric. When I sat down to read before turning in last night, I read to page 20 when the twins were introduced. Frustrating. Also, I swept the Russian Lit bonus but switched Solzhenitsyn and Tolstoy when giving my answer. Those three bonus parts would've meant a 10 point victory... :sad:
Last edited by Dan-Don on Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by mlaird » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:50 pm

BGSO wrote:While you're at it you want to get rid of spelling and Grammar?
I think you should recommend putting Spelling and Grammar into the Misc. Category; THEN recommending Misc be removed. This would lead to 6/6 Fine Arts, which is a lot, though. maybe we just need 28/28 rounds at state. Or at least 20/20 for Regionals.

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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Tegan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:05 pm

Shcool wrote:I am going to propose this year that we eliminate miscellaneous questions entirely.
I would like to think that interdisciplinary could be kept.

This action will be, with respect, defeated by anyone who insists that industrial arts, home ec, etc are "part of the curriculum"; generally the same people that raise an eyebrow at such things as british lit, fine arts, and others.

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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by BGSO » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:22 pm

I feel like we should've put out a call to all regions to keep through stats on TU/TU answered for specific categories. When someone saw that 95% of the driver's ed questions went dead, maybe they'll realize that those questions need to go.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Deviant Insider » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:24 pm

What I was thinking--keep in mind that I haven't proposed anything yet but will need to do so within the next month--is basically getting rid of what is currently in Miscellaneous and using that 2/2 for Social Studies, which would expand History to 6/6.

Getting rid of Spelling and Speech would also be a plus. I don't know if Grammar is even worth bringing up as a possibility. I thought we had improved the Lit category in recent years, but it depends on how much they balance the major and minor categories. There are currently three major categories, which are lit, and four minor categories, which are the other things. I heard way too many questions from the minor categories for my liking, but I did not keep count. I always thought that such things were more appropriate for junior high scholastic bowl, since they are more relevant to that curriculum.

I don't know whether or not any of my proposals will pass. We have debated Drivers Ed for the past three years without success, but three of the seven committee members are new this year.

As to Bob Brown--he is the former Lake Zurich Coach who currently teaches at Maine East.

As to all this investigation--keep in mind that the only person you can contact who can make any difference is Ron McGraw. If a letter came jointly from students from different teams, it could be meaningful. I do not know the exact date when the IHSA Advisory Committee will meet, but it generally is in mid-to-late April. If your letter addresses issues that are in the T&C or Rule Book (including the distribution and match procedures but not including question issues or the workings of the IHSA writing consortium), it also is good to send it to the IHSA Advisory Committee.

As to Saint Viator--Success is not measured by one's finish in the IHSA Tournament. You succeeded in more important ways, and with time that will become obvious.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by dtaylor4 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:35 pm

Shcool wrote:As to all this investigation--keep in mind that the only person you can contact who can make any difference is Ron McGraw. If a letter came jointly from students from different teams, it could be meaningful. I do not know the exact date when the IHSA Advisory Committee will meet, but it generally is in mid-to-late April. If your letter addresses issues that are in the T&C or Rule Book (including the distribution and match procedures but not including question issues or the workings of the IHSA writing consortium), it also is good to send it to the IHSA Advisory Committee.
I am currently drafting an email to Ron McGraw concerning the IHSA State Series, namely the writing process. I could make it a more general email addressing a number of concerns. If you want in on this, let me know.

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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:37 pm

a highlight of one game was not buzzing until the last line of the George Eliot tossup. Thank you, whoever wrote that.
I'm a little confused if this is a critique or praise, but you're welcome?
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Tegan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:54 pm

BGSO wrote:I feel like we should've put out a call to all regions to keep through stats on TU/TU answered for specific categories. When someone saw that 95% of the driver's ed questions went dead, maybe they'll realize that those questions need to go.
This is a good idea. My experience has been that a lot of the hosts will not do this or similar things unless it comes from the top down. That is, only if the IHSA asks for it will they do it. Even then, a lot won't.

However .... it might be worth trying to take a crack at it ..... even if we had the score sheets sent in, they could be tallied and presented to the AdCo. I think this is something worth pursuing.

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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Charley Pride » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:59 pm

If sectionals aren't a lot better, I will cry.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Geringer » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:24 pm

I wrote this in another thread, but I think you all here should read it as well, especially coming from me.

"I really think that the math question writing, computational and otherwise, for regionals was very poor. I really think that someone opened up a college math book from the 18th century, flipped to the glossary, and started writing questions about things that are no longer taught in math class (I am in BC Calculus, so I've been taught what most high schools consider an accelerated curriculum, and I have never even heard of half of this stuff, and some of it isn't even in my book). On top of that, I do not remember very many math questions going the full 30 seconds (except for a God-awful Pascal triangle from hell). If computational math can't be written better, I, yes, me, a staunch defender of 30-second masterpieces, think that it needs to be eliminated from IHSA-sanctioned events."

And I repeat. I just said that I think math needs to be eliminated if the question quality isn't improved.
R. Jeffrey Geringer
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:39 pm

I'm glad to see this post coming from you! I just want to use it to point out that you have, at its very core, said the exact reason why so many quizbowl folks at high levels have decided to abandon computational math - we find it impossible to write good consistent computational questions (not to mention enough to fill up a whole tournament).
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by David Riley » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:24 am

Dan and Jeff (and Alex and Sean et al,) Believe me when I say there are many of us who have been amazed at your team's progress this year, and were equally heartsick at your Regional result. Take to heart what Mr. Reinstein said, losing an IHSA Regional is not the end of the world. I even remember a former IHSA person saying that the purpose of their tournament was not to crown a "best of the best" and it's unfortunate that many people interpret it as that--especially people who control the funding.

Maybe the best team eventually wins, it's how they get there that I'm questioning). I have always held that the IHSA State Tournament should follow a "House of Representatives" model rather than the current "Senate" model. The schools in more populous areas thave o fight it out and are penalized by the current practice of "one school, one vote". I don't know if this will ever change unless the principals want it, but I can think of at least twenty teams in northern Illinois alone that deseerve a crack at the State Championship, including you guys. I pray that your adminiistration permits you guys to go to Nationals, you've earned it and the best of luck to you.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:34 am

Bonito wrote:Unfortunately, I think the biggest problem a few teams have with the extended pyramidal questions promoted by the 'elite' is that they take forever with an inexperienced reader. In 45 minute rounds, we were lucky to get through 20 of the 30question set. Stumbling over pyramidal arts questions with long foreign 8syllabled names in them prompts frustration amongst the teams who don't get the question anyways. From experience, this is why most people were more enthused on misc questions.
I was going to make a seperate thread regarding this, but this is the perfect lead-in. As a certified moderator now living in Indiana, I don't get to as many tournaments as I would like. As such, a Tuesday afternoon affair was perfect for me this year; I was hoping just to swing by a nearby regional after work and get some reading in.

I went to the IHSA website after regional information was posted and found the nearest A and AA regionals to my workplace in University Park. Neither school's coach is a member of the IHSSBCA so I emailed them via the addresses listed on IHSA, mentioned my certified status and offered to read for them. One of them responded a week later and told me no thanks (I noted their email signature declared them as the head cheerleading coach) and the other school failed to respond to my email at all. As a result, I was instead watching American Idol Tuesday night, fairly downtrodden.

The moderator certification program began for a reason; I really wish that in the future, regional hosts are at least guided to look at the list and know its purpose. </rant>

Edit: "I pray that your adminiistration permits you guys to go to Nationals, you've earned it and the best of luck to you." Ditto.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by David Riley » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:24 am

Serves you right for expecting to infiltrate the insular South Side :grin:

Just kidding.....but I agree. We started the moderator certification program for a reason, and it should be implemented at ALL levels.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Stephen Colbert » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:46 pm

Dresden The Moderator wrote:I was going to make a seperate thread regarding this, but this is the perfect lead-in. As a certified moderator now living in Indiana, I don't get to as many tournaments as I would like. As such, a Tuesday afternoon affair was perfect for me this year; I was hoping just to swing by a nearby regional after work and get some reading in.

I went to the IHSA website after regional information was posted and found the nearest A and AA regionals to my workplace in University Park. Neither school's coach is a member of the IHSSBCA so I emailed them via the addresses listed on IHSA, mentioned my certified status and offered to read for them. One of them responded a week later and told me no thanks (I noted their email signature declared them as the head cheerleading coach) and the other school failed to respond to my email at all. As a result, I was instead watching American Idol Tuesday night, fairly downtrodden.

The moderator certification program began for a reason; I really wish that in the future, regional hosts are at least guided to look at the list and know its purpose. </rant>
As another IHSSBCA certified moderator, I had exactly the same experience. I contacted all of the sectional hosts within about a 75 mile radius prior to the seeding meetings, and did the same with regional hosts when they were selected. I got one response saying their school had plenty of capable moderators and heard nothing from at least ten other sites. So, when Tuesday came around for me, I went with reruns of House over American Idol.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Deviant Insider » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:30 pm

BGSO wrote:I feel like we should've put out a call to all regions to keep through stats on TU/TU answered for specific categories.
I am going to attempt this for Sectionals. I hope to have some useful data in two weeks.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Dan-Don » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:38 pm

David Riley wrote:Dan and Jeff (and Alex and Sean et al,) Believe me when I say there are many of us who have been amazed at your team's progress this year, and were equally heartsick at your Regional result. Take to heart what Mr. Reinstein said, losing an IHSA Regional is not the end of the world. I even remember a former IHSA person saying that the purpose of their tournament was not to crown a "best of the best" and it's unfortunate that many people interpret it as that--especially people who control the funding.

Maybe the best team eventually wins, it's how they get there that I'm questioning). I have always held that the IHSA State Tournament should follow a "House of Representatives" model rather than the current "Senate" model. The schools in more populous areas thave o fight it out and are penalized by the current practice of "one school, one vote". I don't know if this will ever change unless the principals want it, but I can think of at least twenty teams in northern Illinois alone that deseerve a crack at the State Championship, including you guys. I pray that your adminiistration permits you guys to go to Nationals, you've earned it and the best of luck to you.
Thank you for the praise...it truly does mean a lot coming from you. While the rest of the state is at Sectionals this Saturday, we'll be playing the Minnesota Undergrad Tournament mirror at UIUC. And, best of all, the school did give us its blessing regarding nationals in Virginia. :party:
shcool wrote:As to Saint Viator--Success is not measured by one's finish in the IHSA Tournament. You succeeded in more important ways, and with time that will become obvious.
I've been trying to tell myself that for the last two days. It means a lot coming from you, Mr. Reinstein. Thank you so much. I'd also like to thank the scholastic bowl community for coming out to support us in the last two days. It's meant the world. We owe our season to support from you guys. So thanks to Mr. Riley, Mr. Egan, Mr. Reinstein, Brad, Donald, and Jonah for helping us through the last few months (the last two days especially). Sorry if I'm forgetting anyone.
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT

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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by David Riley » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:33 pm

Our teams should haver dinner together when we're in Virginia.....details forthcoming.
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Re: IHSA regional assignments

Post by Dan-Don » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:25 am

David Riley wrote:Our teams should haver dinner together when we're in Virginia.....details forthcoming.
I second that! Although...we'll have to make sure it's a restaurant since we'll be traveling with a former olleague of yours from Loyola (Tomas Diaz-Lee) that might not approve of fast food. As I told you yesterday, Mrs. O'Laughlin's sister lives in in Fairfax....perhaps she can recommend a place.
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT

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