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Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:09 pm
by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK
11 teams from Illinois will be battling for the NAQT crown. A: this is to my knowledge the most Illinois has sent which a great step in the right direction. B: Predictions? Do the Illinois powerhouses have a chance against the Maggie Walker's of the world? What do you expect to see next month?

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:12 pm
by dtaylor4
I see Auburn and Carbondale going at worst 7-3. One of the two will pull a major upset.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:55 pm
by BGSO
We'll know once the goldfish is done, but I know Aurburn beat Walker in the last goldfish, and I think that at least one of the best three in Illinois (RA, NT, Carbondale). Will either be 7-3 with a major upset, or maybe even 8-2. In terms of teams making the playoffs, I think that only Loyola is a lock for at least 6-4. While us, WWS, Viator, and MS could go 6-4. I don't really know a lot about Springfield, and I don't know how Loyola B or RA B will fare in this field. But feasibly 5-8 teams from Illinois could make it to Sunday.

Rockford, IL
Buffalo Grove High School Buffalo Grove, IL
Carbondale Community High School Carbondale, IL
Loyola Academy (x2) Wilmette, IL
Maine South High School Park Ridge, IL
New Trier High School Winnetka, IL
Saint Viator High School Arlington Heights, IL
Springfield High School Springfield, IL
Wheaton Warrenville South High School Wheaton, IL

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:05 pm
by Dan-Don
BGSO wrote:While us, WWS, Viator, and MS could go 6-4.
I wouldn't count on us. Just like at PACE, we'll be going sans Alex Grabowski. He's our top scorer in NAQT format. And his usual sub, Richard, can't join us either. It'll be just me, Jeff, and Sean and a sub named Ryan.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:26 pm
by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK
DD60004 wrote:I wouldn't count on us. Just like at PACE, we'll be going sans Alex Grabowski. He's our top scorer in NAQT format. And his usual sub, Richard, can't join us either. It'll be just me, Jeff, and Sean and a sub named Ryan.
That's a shame...why can't they make it?

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:37 pm
by Sir Thopas
I predict another tossup on the Chicago River.

Oh wait, I mis-parsed the title of this thread.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:11 pm
by Dan-Don
Dresden The Moderator wrote:
DD60004 wrote:I wouldn't count on us. Just like at PACE, we'll be going sans Alex Grabowski. He's our top scorer in NAQT format. And his usual sub, Richard, can't join us either. It'll be just me, Jeff, and Sean and a sub named Ryan.
That's a shame...why can't they make it?
Well, Alex is in Europe those 2 weekends (a graduation present, I gather). Richard opted not to go to the HSNCT because, as you know, we have to pay for ourselves. After paying $250 for PACE, Rich didn't want to shell out $134 for NAQT.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:28 pm
by Deviant Insider
Auburn, Carbondale, Loyola, and New Trier should all go 7-3 the first day, with one of them probably going 8-2. Buffalo Grove, Maine South, and WWS should all go 6-4. Saint Viator would go 6-4 if they had everybody, but they won't. It wouldn't be a shocker if Springfield got a playoff spot, but 5-5 is more likely. Loyola B probably will go 4-6.

After Sunday, we should have one or two Illinois teams in the top 20, with an outside chance of three. I don't think any of us will end up in the top ten unless one of our top teams is studying around the clock without my knowledge.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:56 pm
by jonah
I'm going to be particularly optimistic and predict one Illinois team in the top ten, and Ben and Siva both among the top 10 scorers. Ben will be ahead of Siva individually because the distribution plays a bit more to his strengths and because he doesn't have Michael next to him stealing points.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:11 pm
by dtaylor4
I don't see a team like New Trier going that far. Ben is good, I'll grant him that, but he doesn't have the support necessary to make a deep run on Sunday.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:46 pm
by AKKOLADE
Before people go too crazy with the 8-2s, remember that a total of 10 teams went 8-2 or 9-1 in last year's prelims. The lowest any of those teams finished were tied for 17th (DCC & North Kansas City). You basically have to be a top ten team to pull it off.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:28 pm
by Kanga-Rat Murder Society
After the Goldfish today, I would be very surprised if we went 6-4. Our team has way too much rust to make a run, and several of our players just really don't care. They listened to our coach who proclaimed conference and state as the most important tournaments of the year, and thus treat nationals as if it were an exhibition. We had one player who decided to choose track practice over the Goldfish and another player who ditched. In order to get some science parts, we had to grab a random smart kid out of the hall. The good news is that AP Tests will be done soon and our most intelligent player just broke his leg, leaving him with little to do but study.

As for other teams, I think Auburn will be 8-2. I have only played one elite non-Illinois team, but I would rate Auburn slightly above that team. NT and Carbondale should be 7-3, while Loyola will be at least 6-4 (what's happening with your graduation?). Beyond that, WWS and Maine South will probably make the playoffs, we have an outside chance, makeshift Viator has a tiny chance, and the B team(s) should be 4-6.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:42 pm
by JackGlerum
BG MSL Champs wrote:what's happening with your graduation?
I don't think anyone will know until the day of. All of the seniors will miss many rounds, regardless of what happens. We're bummed that we can't be at full strength (like, at all) for HSNCT, but we are gearing up for NSC.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:47 pm
by jonah
dtaylor4 wrote:I don't see a team like New Trier going that far. Ben is good, I'll grant him that, but he doesn't have the support necessary to make a deep run on Sunday.
Well, I predict New Trier will make the playoffs, but I'm not making any prediction about their record. I'd guess Auburn or Carbondale to make the top ten, though Auburn is more likely because one of Carbondale's greatest strengths is math. Support isn't particularly relevant to Ben's individual placement, which is what I predicted; keep in mind he was twelfth last year and has gotten better. Obviously my predictions are colored by both my optimism and preferences, but I don't think they're absurd.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:32 am
by Siverus Snape
Ben is far more likely to make the top ten than I am. Last year, I averaged around 30 ppg at HSNCT, and he did....slightly better. For whatever reason, I've found that NAQT (style, distribution, whatever) tends not to suit me, especially at the higher levels.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:10 am
by Down and out in Quintana Roo
BG MSL Champs wrote:We had one player who decided to choose track practice over the Goldfish and another player who ditched. In order to get some science parts, we had to grab a random smart kid out of the hall. The good news is that AP Tests will be done soon and our most intelligent player just broke his leg, leaving him with little to do but study.
We have a track athlete on our team too, who's been injured a couple times over the past year or so. I pray for another injury very soon. He better show up for Goldfish today.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:53 am
by jonah
Caesar Rodney HS wrote:I pray for another injury very soon.
I understand wanting to field your best team, but...seriously?

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:00 am
by David Riley
For NAQT, we have a conflict with graduation, so our team will be in and out.

With regards to my Delaware colleague, I work out my guys' sports season conflicts. However, I always tell my star players that they can't fall in love during the season. Marcel, are you listening? :grin:

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:00 pm
by Down and out in Quintana Roo
jonah wrote:
Caesar Rodney HS wrote:I pray for another injury very soon.
I understand wanting to field your best team, but...seriously?
[/sarcasm]

I really hope you didn't take me seriously.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 8:24 pm
by Dan-Don
I know Viator is 6-4 ( :grin: ), same for BG (after a beating from Gorman). Mr. Reinstein told me that NT is 7-3. Andrew-less Maine South is 3-7. Any word on Auburn, C-Dale, Loyola, Springfield, and WWS?

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 8:38 pm
by mlaird
Loyola is 6-4 after some crazy shenanigans involving seniors going to graduation and coming back and playing rounds in tuxedos; Auburn went 7-3, losing to Detroit Country Day twice; Carbondale is 7-3; Springfield is 5-5 and I didn't hear about Wheaton Warrenville South. That means there are at least six (6!) IL teams in the playoffs tomorrow.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:55 pm
by Deviant Insider
Jonah posted the following to the IHSSBCA page:
HS NCT prelim round results include Rockford Auburn*, Carbondale*, and Winnetka New Trier* at 7-3; Arlington Heights St. Viator*, Buffalo Grove*, Wheaton Warrenville South*, and Wilmette Loyola A* at 6-4; Springfield 5-5; and Park Ridge Maine South 3-7 (*playoff-bound)
We were playing well towards the end, and I thought we had a shot at 8-2 until Dorman A walked into our last room. We were on the wrong end of one of the few 8-1 vs 7-2 matches. Against Half Hollow Hills West, we fell behind 185-0, came back to take the lead, then negged on the last question to lose it. We also lost to Torrey Pines.

Well played, Illinois, and keep it up tomorrow.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:59 pm
by jonah
Shcool wrote:Jonah posted the following to the IHSSBCA page:
HS NCT prelim round results include Rockford Auburn*, Carbondale*, and Winnetka New Trier* at 7-3; Arlington Heights St. Viator*, Buffalo Grove*, Wheaton Warrenville South*, and Wilmette Loyola A* at 6-4; Springfield 5-5; and Park Ridge Maine South 3-7 (*playoff-bound)
It should be noted that Maine South was missing their best player, and Loyola was missing one or both of their two best players for much of the day.
Shcool wrote: Well played, Illinois, and keep it up tomorrow.
Echoing this.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:00 pm
by BGSO
In terms of the first playoff round, how are teams matched? I'd hate to play one game tomorrow but will a 6-4 team be paired against a 8-2 team? Or do the 6-4's play eachother in order to really enter the playoffs?

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:06 pm
by Deviant Insider
The 6-4 teams play each other in the first round and then get mixed in with the 7-3+ teams when the 6-4 teams win and the 7-3+ teams lose. In other words, every match you play will be an elimination match for whichever team loses.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:43 am
by cornfused
Wow, only a team from Illinois could actually go to graduation during HSNCT... and actually play HSNCT like that. Way to take advantage of your localness, Loyola.


So why is MSHS missing Andrew?

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:59 am
by adeveau
Regrettably, I was in Iowa doing math.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 2:06 pm
by cornfused
adeveau wrote:Regrettably, I was in Iowa doing math.
Get out of Iowa, man.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:44 pm
by abnormal abdomen
I don't know all the results, but New Trier finished 11th, and Auburn finished 7th. Apparently, that 7th place finish is the best ever finish by an Illinois team.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 4:26 pm
by Tegan
I think 11th would have qualified for the best finish ever .... and I will admit that I would have thought it challenging to get one Illinois team in the top 20. Kudos to the Trevs and Knights for setting new high water marks for Illinois! I would not have thought that Illinois would have gotten two teams in the top 11 like that.

I was also thrilled to see 7/9 teams from Illinois make the playoffs. That may also be our highest number.

I had a very brief on the run talk with former Stevenson player, and NAQT Logistics Coordinator Joel Gluskin ... he was too pleasantly surprised to see Illinois starting to do remarkable things. I think this just goes to prove what proponents of good quizbowl have been saying: the transition is painful, and it does take some time, but the outcome is inevitable success.

The Hyatt was a phenomenal venue. There were still some hotel rooms, but Joel explained that using the Hyatt allowed them to minimize the number of "rooms", and maximize the number of suites and meeting rooms. I was fortunate enough to moderate all day with Mike Laudermith in a suite that was big enough to have its own ecosystem. Sadly, I did not see any truly impressive teams all day on Saturday.

It was very good to see the whole NAQT crew put on a great tournament; folks you only usually see once a year wither moderating or running the tournament: Joel Gluskin, Frank Thomas, the Bykowskis, R Hentzel, Eric Bell, Emily Pike, Dwight Kidder, Chad Kubicek, etc, etc ..... it is enough to remind you there are a lot of good folks out there doing a heck of a lot of hard work to do a lot of good things for players and coaches alike.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:54 pm
by jonah
Auburn placed 7th; New Trier, 11th; Carbondale, 17th. Ben Cohen was the #2 individual scorer through preliminary rounds. The first two are the two highest placings by Illinois teams ever at HSNCT; Carbondale's is the fourth highest (2007 New Trier was 13th).

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:14 pm
by mlaird
Loyola won their first match against another 6-4 team, then proceeded to lose a close match to Ransom Everglades for the second time in two days. I'm pretty sure Viator and BG lost their first rounds, and I'm not sure about WWS.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:33 pm
by Dan-Don
mlaird wrote:I'm pretty sure Viator and BG lost their first rounds, and I'm not sure about WWS.
That we did. I don't remember their names, but they were from the same town that the University of Connecticut is located in. It was about a 50-point game.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:51 pm
by at your pleasure
The Conneticut team was probably EO Smith. Also, I assume that by "50-point game" you mean that the margin of victory was 50 points and not that there were less than 100 points scored.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:07 am
by Byko
Anti-Climacus wrote:The Conneticut team was probably EO Smith. Also, I assume that by "50-point game" you mean that the margin of victory was 50 points and not that there were less than 100 points scored.
Jessie and I read that game. It was E.O. Smith who was about a 50 point winner in that one, something like 225-175 or thereabouts.

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts over the next days/weeks, but we definitely enjoyed ourselves over the weekend and really were happy to get to see a lot of folks we normally don't and meet some that we've only talked to over e-mail or Facebook. And it's clear to me from the last HSNCT we went to (either 2006 or 2007, I can't remember offhand) that the top teams in Illinois are really doing some great things. How it pertains to the future of the rest of the state and what can be done there may be a whole different point of discussion.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:11 am
by MLaudermith
Tegan wrote:It was very good to see the whole NAQT crew put on a great tournament
Agreed. Despite being the largest HSNCT to date, I thought this year's was the most well-organized. Kudos to NAQT for running such an outstanding tournament.

Congrats to all the Illinois teams and especially Auburn, New Trier, and Carbondale!

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:11 am
by Tegan
DD60004 wrote:
mlaird wrote:I'm pretty sure Viator and BG lost their first rounds, and I'm not sure about WWS.
That we did. I don't remember their names, but they were from the same town that the University of Connecticut is located in. It was about a 50-point game.
In addition to all of the really high finishes, kudos to St. Viator, W-WS, and BG for getting out there, AND making the playoffs. I found that to be especially gratifying.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:33 am
by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK
Indeed, kudos to all. A great step for all of Illinois, but especially thank you to the individuals who worked so hard and did so well. Awesome.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:47 am
by David Riley
Not to dampen all this enthusiasm, but we need to get the word out to other teams about PACE and NAQT for next year. Let's see if we can have TWICE as many Illinois teams qualify for both! :party:

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:59 am
by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK
Well maybe they could if Auburn and Loyola didn't dominate every tournament :grin:

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:47 am
by David Riley
That really is part of the problem, BJ. The same ten or twelve of us go to every tournament and end up playing each other multiple times rather than playing other teams. We need some new blood!

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:47 pm
by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK
David Riley wrote:That really is part of the problem, BJ. The same ten or twelve of us go to every tournament and end up playing each other multiple times rather than playing other teams. We need some new blood!
Not that this concept hasn't been beaten to death, but it's worth reiterating...part of the problem is simply that the IHSA rules discourage anything past their own state series (both ideologically and chronologically ), and thusly the Illinois scene has a whole has little knowledge that any form of "nationals" even exists! If we could get them to lift the limit (and publicize the move) on post-state series activity, there is whole other world of stuff to explore. In addition to opening up nationals, there are neighboring state tournaments (Culver usually runs a spring tourney), and the rule change would open up the possibility of later, national qualifying tournaments to be run in Illinois.

Another move would be to make a bigger deal out of the NAQT state championship. The last idea would be to encourage better question providers to be used for regular season tournaments, so that more of them can get certified for a national tournament.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:13 pm
by David Riley
BJ: Send me an email regarding this.

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:36 pm
by Deviant Insider
There are no limits on any Illinois team playing in any of the tournaments BJ mentions beyond what the school (coach, students, parents, administrators) want.

After reading BJ's earlier comments about a few teams dominating everything, New Trier has decided to be less dominant next year. :wink:

Re: Illinois in HSNCT

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:38 pm
by jonah
Shcool wrote:There are no limits on any Illinois team playing in any of the tournaments BJ mentions beyond what the school (coach, students, parents, administrators) want.
Well, what they're aware of, what they can afford, what coaches think their players want, and possibly what people think they're capable of are all relevant too.
Shcool wrote:After reading BJ's earlier comments about a few teams dominating everything, New Trier has decided to be less dominant next year. :wink:
no dont