NAC schedule info/tournament thread

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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Wild10 » Thu May 28, 2009 5:19 pm

Maybe as an adition to NAC.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Sir Thopas » Thu May 28, 2009 5:41 pm

Wild10 wrote:Maybe as an adition to NAC.
lolz

EDIT: I'm sure when you join the quizbowl team at Swarthmore next year they'll talk to you about this.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Thu May 28, 2009 6:04 pm

Wild10 wrote:Maybe as an adition to NAC.
So when there's a tournament that is exactly like NAC, minus the fact that NAC constitutes giving money to a bad man, you would propose to go to both? Why are you content with attending only one NAC this year? Why aren't you lobbying Omar al-Bashir to run Sudan Academic Championship so you can give him your money, too?

Or alternatively, do you claim that paying to attend NAC does not constitute funding a dude whose done a lot of immoral stuff, and so you're morally clean in advocating doing so? Because then I recommend the same reading list Dwight did.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Matt Weiner » Thu May 28, 2009 6:16 pm

I'm not gonna get into another nonsense thing about who is a "monkey" or how bad factual-recall questions somehow involve more "applied knowledge" than good factual-recall questions; I think everyone can see the intellectual bankruptcy of those arguments, and is already questioning the moral failings and total abandonment of an educator's responsibility that any coach who would attend the NAC is demonstrating. I do want to talk about the "we think four quarters is more exciting" thing, as that's one of the arguments that has been brought up a few times by Chip attendees.

Frankly, I think anyone who says that is lying. Other groups have offered good questions in the four-quarter format: NAQT has produced Indiana-format sets, HSAPQ offered a four-quarter set this year, Texas A&M among others used to write an in-house high school tournament that used 4Q format and good questions produced by competent people. There has been almost no interest in these sets, and those who did play them complained about the questions being "too long" (even though they obeyed normal NAQT, HSAPQ, or other length guidelines; that is too say, even though they were not, in fact, too long). The people who want four-quarter format want it because they want bad questions, period. They want bad questions for the same reasons that anyone wants bad questions--because they are trophy whores, because they don't know enough to compete on real questions with real teams, because they have the attention span of a gerbil on Red Bull and can't bear to hear a single clue their terrible team won't buzz on before the end of the question.

If it was really the four-quarter format, and not bad, reflex-test, Trivial Pursuit questions that give out laughable "national championships" for beating the 35th-best team in the country on a worthless question set, that anyone wanted, then there would be sufficient demand for hosting NAQT, HSAPQ, or college-written sets that put good questions into the four-quarter format. There is no such demand; people who pretend the format is what they want are being dishonest. I expect nothing less than total dishonesty about motives from someone who would patronize the maelstrom of deceit that is a Chip tournament.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Wild10 » Thu May 28, 2009 6:18 pm

These personal shots are shocking. Bad man? Amoral? How about writing things about a person who you probably don't know, if at all, more than from a couple quizbowl tournaments? That seems like a real travesty to me.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by pray for elves » Thu May 28, 2009 6:27 pm

When I was a senior in high school, my team (a first-time NAC competitor) was eliminated from the NAC by a lower-seeded perennial NAC team in a round featuring three questions on the geography and culture of their home area.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by cvdwightw » Thu May 28, 2009 6:41 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:The people who want four-quarter format want it because they want bad questions, period. They want bad questions for the same reasons that anyone wants bad questions--because they are trophy whores, because they don't know enough to compete on real questions with real teams, because they have the attention span of a gerbil on Red Bull and can't bear to hear a single clue their terrible team won't buzz on before the end of the question.
Uh oh, here comes the Weiner train! I told you to clarify stuff before the Weiner train pulled into the station!

We should be careful not to drive Omar and other NAC supporters from the board with over-the-top language and ad hominem attacks. Remember, there are many people like Omar that have these opinions, and we should be trying to work to get these people to clarify what, exactly, they see as the positive aspects of the NAC.

However, Matt does bring up a major point: almost nowhere does anyone prefer the 4Q format. It is entirely possible that Omar is completely accurate in saying that he and his team prefers the 4Q format. However, this would make Omar in the vast minority. No offense to Omar or other NAC supporters, but a large number of people who have come out with this argument then complain about the 4Q format when it is written by people other than :chip: (thus making their argument about the 4Q format invalid and an actual mask for "we prefer bad questions"). This drowns out any "good faith" arguments about 4Q format.

As for where Matt and many others in this thread are coming from: we spend hundreds of hours each year (Matt more than most) writing good questions at the high school level, whether for regular season tournaments or national tournaments. We make sure that our practices meet the highest levels of ethical standards, and while we don't always make the best decisions on clue ordering or protest resolution, we do at least try to make sure that every question and every match is fair. We get justifiably upset when business competitors who have a documented history of ethically questionable decisions and who spread misinformation about themselves (and, to a lesser and less frequent degree, us) continue to survive and, in some cases, thrive, largely due to a mostly captive audience of coaches that either don't know better, don't care, or keep coming back due to a (at least perceived by us) habit of getting preferential treatment as a longtime NAC competitor.

Omar's argument that "you can't say things about people that you don't know" doesn't hold water. If any of the facts we have cited (other than the Westchester Rule, for which I apologize, as it was not listed in the rulebook that was linked to in this thread) are at all misinformation or misleading, Omar or someone else needs to tell us how we are mistaken. Otherwise, we will claim a superior moral position to Chip Beall-run enterprises, from which it is difficult to argue against.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by at your pleasure » Thu May 28, 2009 6:44 pm

While we're on the subject of format, I would like to note that, despite claims that 4Q is more exciting and therfore superior, the NSC format(NSC being the closest thing we have to a good 4Q national) is the most criticized aspect of the NSC. Hardly strong evidence that 4Q is superior.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Cheynem » Thu May 28, 2009 6:49 pm

Look, I've only met Chip Beall once in person and several times "online." When people are saying "immoral" or "bad man," I don't think they are referring to his personal habits or spiritual beliefs. They are referring to his business practices and the various ethical problems that have been associated with his tournaments that have been documented by such people as Tom Egan, Matt Lafer, and others. You do not have to actually meet the head of a business in order to denounce aspects of his business and this is what people are doing.

Also, for the record, I've obviously never played it, but after reading through some of the HSAPQ four-quarter packets, I think they're kind of cool.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Golran » Thu May 28, 2009 7:16 pm

I personally love the idea of 4 quarters, and was seriously considering attending the NAC last year when my team was not able to qualify for anything else. The local league that I played in used 4 quarter provided by Great Auk, and I found the format to be extremely fun even though the questions were sometimes funny, never really asking anything at all. What really threw me off from even presenting our qualification to NAC to the rest of the team was the price pre guaranteed game at around $100, which was in addition to the hotel and transport. Also a comment in his e-mail just made me feel as if I was being played at his whim, rather than being an individual.
In an e-mail Charles Beall wrote:I wonder if Dr. George Baldo is still the coach of the Ward Melville team. Please provide me with the email address of your coach if possible.
Though I never learned exactly how to plagiarize, I think the following examples may be plagiarized, from this month's 20 questions. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong about plagiarism)
http://www.qunlimited.com/quiz2.html wrote:4. Which ancient British custom is in danger of dying out because young people are "too embarrassed" to take part?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5452266.ece wrote:Charlie Corcoran, bagman (chairman) of the Morris Ring, said: “There is a distinct possibility that in 20 years' time there will be nobody left. It worries me a great deal. Young people are just too embarrassed to take part.”
http://www.qunlimited.com/quiz2.html wrote: Nearly 400 years after his death, he appeared in a new and more handsome guise last month, thanks to a newly discovered portrait that a group of scholars and art historians said was the only known likeness to have been painted in his lifetime. Who was he?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/10/world/europe/10shakespeare.html wrote:By JOHN F. BURNS
Published: March 9, 2009
LONDON — Nearly 400 years after his death, William Shakespeare appeared in a new and more handsome guise on Monday, thanks to a recently discovered portrait that a group of Shakespeare scholars and art historians said was the only known likeness to have been painted in his lifetime.
http://www.qunlimited.com/quiz2.html wrote:Six years after the idea was hatched, what country's much-hyped $2,500 Tata Nano was introduced last month?
http://tatanano.net/ wrote:NEW DELHI — Six years after the idea was hatched, India’s much-hyped Tata Nano was introduced on Monday.
I only wish that I could have attended a national championship in high school.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Sir Thopas » Thu May 28, 2009 7:21 pm

dinoian wrote:What really threw me off from even presenting our qualification to NAC to the rest of the team was the price pre guaranteed game at around $100, which was in addition to the hotel and transport.
Unless you're a long-time Chip partisan who has vowed never to come back, of course; a coach, who can out themselves if they'd like, was offered $100 entry into NAC—total. They went to PACE instead.
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Re: The Chip link catalog

Post by etchdulac » Thu May 28, 2009 7:41 pm

Omar, I'm sorry this community's attitude toward NAC is coming as a surprise to you. As someone who first followed NAC in 1991 and has seen and heard numerous perversions of fair play in the time since, I can recall my own disappointment when I came to realize (many years ago) the endemic nature of intentionally manipulated results at NAC. I am present each year when this recurring conversation comes up to attempt to provide background on the issue.

Three years ago, around this time, I posted my own description of how our local Chip tournament was rigged one particular year.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2787&p=34916#p34916
That conversation thread is a decent place to start to get the idea of how longterm and widespread the problems are.

This conversation returns in 2007:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4074

And in 2008:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5580&p=86477#p86477

And here we are again.

Point being: It's crucial for you to understand that the arguments against Chip are not uninformed, exaggerated or isolated.

If you like 60-seconds rounds, that's fine. Sure, they are fun; they also allow the opportunity for one team to face much easier material than the other. The "Mystery" category is another means Chip often used to manipulate results, having been seen to change what the mystery category material was based on who selected it. Even without "Mysteries", Chip's 60-second sets vary so much in difficulty within a single question set that he is allowing for a definite skew.

Copious amounts of data and first-hand experiences have convinced legions of quizbowl players that Chip does not do things the right way. Whether you want to talk about his intentional or unintentional shortcomings, the answer is the same.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Thu May 28, 2009 8:33 pm

As someone who has played Quick Recall that uses Chip-like questions for 7 years, I will not deny that it is fun to play. But whenever it gets down to it, playing NAQT or PACE questions gives you a sense of accomplishment with answering a question, especially with a power, and to me that's more fun.

I don't know anything about Chip's personality, as I've never met the man. From what I read and hear from others, he at least somewhat understands the game of Quizbowl, and while his subject distribution is occasionally odd, it could be overlooked if he ran an excellent event.

However, he apparently doesn't. His problems are that he is too caught up in his own tournament's "importance" and allows personal biases to alter the outcome of some matches. In addition, his gimmicks and antics cause problems for teams trying to compete seriously, and his questions are not only plagiarized, but are so horribly written that it throws off anyone who is paying attention, and also creates buzzer races. I mean, a question on a blender is fine as long as it's something more than playing the sound of a blender and asking what appliance that is. Most people have heard a blender, so you're not learning anything or accomplishing some great feat by beating the other 7 people in the game to buzz in.

I have never attended a :chip: fest, and when considering the above evidence, which has been documented by nearly every respected Quizbowl figure, we decided to not even consider the NAC when thinking about a National Tournament this year.




Edit: is replace isn't in the first sentence
Last edited by Rococo A Go Go on Thu May 28, 2009 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by fleurdelivre » Thu May 28, 2009 9:23 pm

quantumfootball wrote:
mcn46 wrote:
Wild10 wrote:I certainly did not kill my argument. How can we say that Charter was better than Booker T? They lost!
On questions that variously…
  • punish deep knowledge and "hose" you if you buzz in early
    are so obvious that everybody knows the answer and whoever hits the buzzer first wins
    aren't about anything worth knowing (The sound of the blender!)
…and a distribution vastly different (more trash) than that of any other quizbowl format.

I wouldn't call it football and rugby; I'd call it real football and a game I'll call FootBeall, which would feature stuff like a field with a randomly-shifting slope; a dude standing in the middle of the game giving commentary and acting as an obstacle to the players; a third quarter where each team shoots ten field goals at a distance determined by that dude; and a Golden Snitch.
This deserves a Stingray nomination.
Except that a Golden Snitch would automatically make pretty much any game fun, thus ruining the premise of the metaphor.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Howard » Fri May 29, 2009 1:54 am

Tegan wrote:I also have to tell you that I have had my team invited to the NAC in years where we did not necessarily have a good team (and our team was not the only team to get "cold called" like this.
I can confirm that this year my team was invited to the NAC based on an accomplishment we had not yet achieved at the time of the invitation.

There's no doubt there are different skills involved in NAC vs. NSC or HSNCT. I've challenged numerous times the idea that quizbowl must be solely about knowledge. Simply put, that's not what the vast majority of the members of this board believe. It's also my contention that playing speed questions improves reasoning skills, and many here have disputed that as well. The supporting argument I give for my contention is that in the notably unbiased It's Academic tournament which my team participates, certain coaches and teams seem to have top teams year after year. If the speed factor of this tournament were simply a randomizer which didn't involve some sort of thought and reasoning power, it'd be nearly impossible for any coach or school to have a top team several years in a row or a vast majority of years. Whatever the members here wish to call it, there's a mental ingredient more substantial than physical reaction time.

Will you see us at NAC? Probably not. We had a good enough team for us to possibly finish well, but considering our largest problem in the It's Academic tournament was lack of knowledge, I'm figuring such a finish would be unlikely. I have a dislike for hoses, and have much more serious objections to plagiarism and "questions that begin with why." Plagiarism is just plain unethical, and questions that begin with "why" are patently unplayable in this type of competition simply due to the fact that it's impossible to include every possible answer with the question. Do we need to revisit the thread where a year or two ago I asked "why is the sky blue?" There were numerous and varied correct answers.

Lastly, I agree with the conclusion that the format isn't the primary issue to the majority of teams who say they like four quarter compared to 20/20. Unlike Matt, I don't think these teams are consciously lying about this. Teams playing these formats with little exception are playing on short questions. What they know is that they enjoy the competition. It's my opinion, however, that for these teams, the short question is synonymous with the format. Unlike most of the members here, I don't have large problems with short questions, but as said above, I think they can be written without hoses, plagiarism, and humongous valid answer spaces.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Fri May 29, 2009 7:39 am

Howard wrote:There's no doubt there are different skills involved in NAC vs. NSC or HSNCT. I've challenged numerous times the idea that quizbowl must be solely about knowledge. Simply put, that's not what the vast majority of the members of this board believe. It's also my contention that playing speed questions improves reasoning skills, and many here have disputed that as well. The supporting argument I give for my contention is that in the notably unbiased It's Academic tournament which my team participates, certain coaches and teams seem to have top teams year after year. If the speed factor of this tournament were simply a randomizer which didn't involve some sort of thought and reasoning power, it'd be nearly impossible for any coach or school to have a top team several years in a row or a vast majority of years. Whatever the members here wish to call it, there's a mental ingredient more substantial than physical reaction time.
You're right that there are teams that do better than other teams at It's Academic year after year, but the game is not all knowledge, either. While the speed isn't a randomizer, it's just how fast you can hit the buzzer. This year, my primary strategy was to hit the buzzer and then think about what the answer could be, or better yet, have my teammates do it for me. So it's not incredibly thought-heavy. I don't think anyone is arguing that there's absolutely no thought involved- but the fact is that knowledge can't be the only factor, as we beat Thomas Jefferson this year at It's Ac, and I'd certainly wager they have a more knowledgeable team than we do.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by mithokie » Fri May 29, 2009 11:41 am

Howard wrote: The supporting argument I give for my contention is that in the notably unbiased It's Academic tournament which my team participates, certain coaches and teams seem to have top teams year after year. If the speed factor of this tournament were simply a randomizer which didn't involve some sort of thought and reasoning power, it'd be nearly impossible for any coach or school to have a top team several years in a row or a vast majority of years. Whatever the members here wish to call it, there's a mental ingredient more substantial than physical reaction time.
The below is said with the caveat that I have never seen It's Academic questions in person. I am working on the assumption that they are one line toss-ups about primarily academic content that has pretty much the same canon as traditional pyramidal quizbowl.

Speed questions will separate teams that don't know things from teams that do know things. There are plenty of teams that when faced with the giveaway clue of many quizbowl questions simply do not know the answer. Those teams will place at the bottom of any tournament with academic content, whether it is speed format or pyramidal format. Thus, you have many of the same teams at the top of the field in It's Academic each year (The teams that know things) and many of the same teams at the bottom of the field each year in It's Academic (The teams that don't know things). The problem with speed format is that the results become more about buzzer speed and other things when you have opponents that both know the answer. The randomness of the quick recall format is among those teams that know things. The team that has the deepest knowledge has no distinct advantage over teams with shallow knowledge.

With the pyramidal questions, you have the distinct advantage given to the team with the deeper knowledge. On pyramidal questions the team that knows more wins most of the time against a team that knows things, but knows less about them. On quick recall, the difference between the teams becomes about other things rather than knowledge. I guess the big question becomes what are the "other things" the quick recall competition is using to differentiate between teams, and are these the things that we want our competitions based on?
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by at your pleasure » Fri May 29, 2009 2:57 pm

AHS Eagles: The It's Academic canon is in fact much smaller than the normal canon. That also weakens the ability to distinguish by knowledge, since the top-of- the field teams all are thuroughly familiar with the canon. I'm not sure what It's Academic really tests besides buzzer speed since I'm no good at it although I would guess gamemanship plays an outsized role.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by rjaguar3 » Fri May 29, 2009 3:04 pm

Anti-Climacus wrote:AHS Eagles: The It's Academic canon is in fact much smaller than the normal canon. That also weakens the ability to distinguish by knowledge, since the top-of- the field teams all are thuroughly familiar with the canon. I'm not sure what It's Academic really tests besides buzzer speed since I'm no good at it although I would guess gamemanship plays an outsized role.
How to recognize recycled questions early? I know the "Wednesday gets its name" question has come up at least 5 times on Hometown High-Q.

EDIT: Without this knowledge, there is no possible way to confidently buzz-in on an IA "lead-in."
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by at your pleasure » Fri May 29, 2009 3:21 pm

That sounds plausible. Old packets for the other area TV show(Quizmaster Challenge), which are used for countly league play, are rife with repeats. At one point, during a three-round league session, Keats came up in all three rounds.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by rjaguar3 » Fri May 29, 2009 3:34 pm

Anti-Climacus wrote:That sounds plausible. Old packets for the other area TV show(Quizmaster Challenge), which are used for countly league play, are rife with repeats. At one point, during a three-round league session, Keats came up in all three rounds.
As soon as I can find a way to download the online video, I'll paste together a Youtube video of all the repeats I know of in the "Grab Bag" round.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Fri May 29, 2009 7:39 pm

I can confirm one primary strategy for It's Academic is just memorizing repeated questions and lead-ins.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by at your pleasure » Fri May 29, 2009 9:15 pm

As soon as I can find a way to download the online video, I'll paste together a Youtube video of all the repeats I know of in the "Grab Bag" round.
Wait, they still air It's Academic in Chicago?
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by rjaguar3 » Fri May 29, 2009 11:25 pm

Anti-Climacus wrote:
As soon as I can find a way to download the online video, I'll paste together a Youtube video of all the repeats I know of in the "Grab Bag" round.
Wait, they still air It's Academic in Chicago?
I have watched the Grab Bag rounds of Pittsburgh's version and Baltimore's version (which are available online) since early 2008.

Incidentally, the museum of television and radio does have an It's Academic episode from 1969.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by at your pleasure » Sat May 30, 2009 12:26 am

Ah. I've never heard about It's Academic being run in Pittsburgh. It's Academic apparently dates from 1961; they like to tout their status as the oldest quiz show still in existence.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by AKKOLADE » Sat May 30, 2009 12:09 pm

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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by rjaguar3 » Sat May 30, 2009 12:15 pm

Anti-Climacus wrote:Ah. I've never heard about It's Academic being run in Pittsburgh. It's Academic apparently dates from 1961; they like to tout their status as the oldest quiz show still in existence.
It's called Hometown High-Q there, but apart from a change in the names of the rounds, it's exactly the same format.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Howard » Sun May 31, 2009 12:03 pm

Johannes Climacus wrote:You're right that there are teams that do better than other teams at It's Academic year after year, but the game is not all knowledge, either. While the speed isn't a randomizer, it's just how fast you can hit the buzzer. This year, my primary strategy was to hit the buzzer and then think about what the answer could be, or better yet, have my teammates do it for me. So it's not incredibly thought-heavy. I don't think anyone is arguing that there's absolutely no thought involved- but the fact is that knowledge can't be the only factor, as we beat Thomas Jefferson this year at It's Ac, and I'd certainly wager they have a more knowledgeable team than we do.
I'd say I agree with nearly everything you've put forward here. The only thing I think I'll counter argue is the seeming implication that buzzer speed is simply a matter of physicality. In fact, buzzer speed abilities in questions of this format requires question and knowledge analysis. It's not simply a matter of clue recall. It's the ability to analyze the question, figure out where it may be headed, and pick the earliest possible instant to buzz in and still receive the piece of information you need. There's a large amount of mental involvement in this process. Hence my argument that this format involves analysis skills that the typical pyramidal questions do not. I'd say your team is among the best five or so I've ever seen in regard to this ability.

For what it's worth, I think the common link pyramidal questions are an excellent mix of the both types of questions. They still differentiate levels of knowledge, but the player with better thought and analytical capabilities has a distinct advantage.
Anti-Climacus wrote:AHS Eagles: The It's Academic canon is in fact much smaller than the normal canon. That also weakens the ability to distinguish by knowledge, since the top-of- the field teams all are thuroughly familiar with the canon. I'm not sure what It's Academic really tests besides buzzer speed since I'm no good at it although I would guess gamemanship plays an outsized role.
Agreed on the canon. The largest reason my team didn't do better was lack of knowledge, even on the reduced canon. I'd say most of the teams (at least 70% or so) know most of the answers. So the idea that the format separates teams that know some stuff from those that don't seems to be a little off course.

edit: spelling and wordiness
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by rjaguar3 » Sun May 31, 2009 7:09 pm

Howard wrote: I'd say I agree with nearly everything you've put forward here. The only thing I think I'll counter argue is the seeming implication that buzzer speed is simply a matter of physicality. In fact, buzzer speed abilities in questions of this format requires question and knowledge analysis. It's not simply a matter of clue recall. It's the ability to analyze the question, figure out where it may be headed, and pick the earliest possible instant to buzz in and still receive the piece of information you need. There's a large amount of mental involvement in this process. Hence my argument that this format involves analysis skills that the typical pyramidal questions do not. I'd say your team is among the best five or so I've ever seen in regard to this ability.
The ability to recognize recycled lead-ins and make an ESPN connection with the question writer dominates by far any sort of analytical skills you can use on these questions.

How can you possibly answer the question "Whole lot of money in this uncut stack; specifically how much money, equal to one million times two to the fifth power?" before the very end?
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Sun May 31, 2009 8:33 pm

Not all speed questions are the same. One can use analysis and question predictability on Quizmaster Challenge and, occasionally, It's Ac. With most of the Chip questions I've seen, it seems like they are one clue long, making it an all-out buzzer race at said clue.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Sun May 31, 2009 10:12 pm

rmgeokid wrote:One can use analysis and question predictability on Quizmaster Challenge and, occasionally, It's Ac.
Why is this a good thing? I mean, I could probably get the stack of money question if I have seen it enough, but what good is that?
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by at your pleasure » Sun May 31, 2009 10:18 pm

Well, stock clue memorization and ESPN are mental skills, albeit of a sort we do not desire to test in quizbowl. Pure buzzer speed is nothing more than reflexes.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sun May 31, 2009 10:19 pm

rmgeokid wrote:Not all speed questions are the same. One can use analysis and question predictability on Quizmaster Challenge and, occasionally, It's Ac. With most of the Chip questions I've seen, it seems like they are one clue long, making it an all-out buzzer race at said clue.
This is like comparing eating a cinder block versus a table. At least the table gives you some fiber.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by scquizbowl » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:54 am

Here is a link to information about the New Orleans tournament, and a summary about what went on. See for yourself. Also, Chip, during the finals, mocked how we said bling at the final question.

Here is the link for the tournament.

http://www.qunlimited.com/national.htm

Washington is this week. Here is their schedule:

http://www.qunlimited.com/wasched9.htm

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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by David Riley » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:47 pm

I always thought the Minneapolis-St. Paul suburbs were solid NAQT territory, yet I notice Shakopee and Apple Valley, which I'm assuming are Minnesota schools.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Buzz Buzzard » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:41 pm

scquizbowl wrote:Here is a link to information about the New Orleans tournament, and a summary about what went on. See for yourself. Also, Chip, during the finals, mocked how we said bling at the final question.
Well it wouldn't be NAC without dubious comments from teh :chip:-5t3r.
Here is the link for the tournament.

http://www.qunlimited.com/national.htm

Washington is this week. Here is their schedule:

http://www.qunlimited.com/wasched9.htm

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Well hopefully they don't have any questions quite as unsatisfactory as the "Purring" TU at the HSNCT.............but that's probably expecting too much still.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:42 pm

Johannes Climacus wrote:
rmgeokid wrote:One can use analysis and question predictability on Quizmaster Challenge and, occasionally, It's Ac.
Why is this a good thing? I mean, I could probably get the stack of money question if I have seen it enough, but what good is that?
My bad. That came out wrong. I meant something along the lines of "question-predicting skills"
hwhite wrote:This is like comparing eating a cinder block versus a table. At least the table gives you some fiber.
Yeah I'm not saying that either of them are very good, and I definitely think pyramidal is a better test of knowledge. I'm just saying that there are sub-mediocre speed questions and god-awful speed questions.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by the return of AHAN » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:25 pm

scquizbowl wrote:Here is a link to information about the New Orleans tournament, and a summary about what went on. See for yourself. Also, Chip, during the finals, mocked how we said bling at the final question.

Here is the link for the tournament.

http://www.qunlimited.com/national.htm

Washington is this week. Here is their schedule:

http://www.qunlimited.com/wasched9.htm

Joe
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I don't see the bling reference in the write-up. Was it removed? Or did I skim through it too quickly?
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Stephen Colbert » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:42 pm

Woody Paige wrote:
scquizbowl wrote:Here is a link to information about the New Orleans tournament, and a summary about what went on. See for yourself. Also, Chip, during the finals, mocked how we said bling at the final question.

Here is the link for the tournament.

http://www.qunlimited.com/national.htm

Washington is this week. Here is their schedule:

http://www.qunlimited.com/wasched9.htm

Joe
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I don't see the bling reference in the write-up. Was it removed? Or did I skim through it too quickly?
I similarly spent five minutes staring at the screen looking for the bling reference. I think he meant that during the finals match between Jesuit and Horace Greeley, in his capacity as moderator-in-chief, :chip: made what was probably a totally inappropriate mention of the incident.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:48 pm

There was a massive hose in our first game. I was so upset. There's way too much general knowledge, and what's actually academic is terrible. Mehh I miss NAQT :'(
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by jonah » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:06 pm

rmgeokid wrote:There's way too much general knowledge... Mehh I miss NAQT :'(
You made a funny!

No, seriously...after the weekend is over, I hope you'll post more details.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by sir negsalot » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:16 pm

HOLY CRAP!! What a terrible tournament. I wont be returning tomorrow. 3 games in 1 day! HONKBALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL :chip:
Last edited by AKKOLADE on Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Please use PG language in the high school section.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:27 pm

Are the questions cleared for discussion? There was a terrible one I would love to share with everybody.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by DumbJaques » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:29 pm

None of the sites repeat questions, I don't think, so I can't see why not (or if they do repeat, it's not because they reuse questions, just because of lameness).
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:25 pm

Alright, here it goes: (try to read the first line before looking at the second)
In 1721, Peter the Great moved the Russian capital from Moscow to (I buzzed here)
St. Petersburg. In 1868, Emperor Meiji moved his capital from where to where?
(Kyoto to Tokyo)
Stupid stupid question.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Kouign Amann » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:28 pm

ITT Bad quizbowl is bad.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by First Chairman » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:36 am

rmgeokid wrote:Alright, here it goes: (try to read the first line before looking at the second)
In 1721, Peter the Great moved the Russian capital from Moscow to (I buzzed here)
St. Petersburg. In 1868, Emperor Meiji moved his capital from where to where?
(Kyoto to Tokyo)
Stupid stupid question.
Classic hose.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:32 am

I'm considering telling all of the somewhat good teams there (and there were a few) about the other nationals. I mentioned NAQT to a reader, and she said "Eww. We did that one year and the questions were like a paragraph long"
I've managed to stay civil, but I might just badmouth this tournament to some reader's face. I have three more games today :/
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:52 am

Good luck during this crapfest of a tournament. We look forward to seeing you guys at PACE next year on this weekend instead.
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Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Post by sir negsalot » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:30 pm

""Considering that we play in a number of college sponsored events in which the format is 20 tossups/20 Bonuses...and that the questions meander endlessly before getting to their points...QUnlimited is FAR superior. ... Questions Unlimited provides questions that are succinct and direct and that provide a demanding but fair test of high school students' abilities to recall accurate material quickly. In addition, the format offers a variety that ensures the students enjoy practicing with them. In addition, the various academic disciplines are well-balanced within any given question sets, which means that the full range of specialized talents within a given team of students will come into play in every match."
- Brock Putnam, Team Waramaug, CT

woo NAC!!!!!
Praise :chip: lord almighty, savior of the quizbowl universe!

Remember that bad tournament:
"We have been going to Nationals in Chicago with the ----. Your tournament is so much better and more organized. We have now attended 3 different Nationals and none compare to the quality of your tournament organization and READERS!!!!"
--Rae Gambler, Defiance High School [name of other tournament deleted]

and they have 3 other positive testimonials!

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
the line of smiles is to let me describe my anger
HONKBALLLLLLLLL :chip: HONKBALLL :chip: HONKBALLLLL :chip:
(I edited it myself this time, freddy)
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