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NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:52 pm
by scquizbowl
Yesterday or today, the schedule for the National Academic Championship was done. Strangely, only the New Orleans and Chicago schedules were done, as the Washington schedule at Marymount University has not been made yet.

We (James Island) are in the leg with Booker T. Washington, Horace Greeley, High Tech, and a few others. We play first at 4:30 on Saturday (only one game), and most of our games are on Sunday (four of them). Hopefully, even without one of our best players, we will do well.

Here is the schedule for the New Orleans phase: http://www.qunlimited.com/nosched9.htm

The schedule for the Chicago phase (which has John Cooper, Byram Hills, Plano, and Cutter Morning Star, Jason Loy's school, among others): http://www.qunlimited.com/chsched9.htm

Joe
James Island '10

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:36 pm
by ... and the chaos of Mexican modernity
Just wondering Joe if you have spoken to Ms. Meek about attending PACE or HSNCT at all this year. I know she may not like it, but tell her that you guys want an academic enforcement and competition and not simply trivia.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:46 pm
by the return of AHAN
Who are these teams? I'm amused to see Schaumburg involved in this.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:17 pm
by at your pleasure
academic enforcement
Interesting word choice, Zach. Joe, my only useful advice is to bring some good sets and try to convert a few teams. Looking at the schedule, it seems to me that :chip: is trying to schedule against NSC (and possibly HSNCT), and keep teams away from Washington or Chicago during the legitimate national's weekends. He's definitley getting desparate.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:41 pm
by The Atom Strikes!
Anti-Climacus wrote:
academic enforcement
Interesting word choice, Zach. Joe, my only useful advice is to bring some good sets and try to convert a few teams. Looking at the schedule, it seems to me that :chip: is trying to schedule against NSC (and possibly HSNCT), and keep teams away from Washington or Chicago during the legitimate national's weekends. He's definitley getting desparate.
He's done this for the past few years...

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:18 pm
by Adventure Temple Trail
What's almost more amusing than the no-name quality of the field (James Island excluded) is that this "national tournament" is somehow only able to run three games every half-hour...

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:25 pm
by AKKOLADE
They've done that for quite a few years. It allows their readers to give more of a game show mentality to things.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:42 am
by Auks Ran Ova
FredMorlan wrote:They've done that for quite a few years. It allows their readers to give more of a game show mentality to things.
It's just not quizbowl without a dude in a cerulean shirt and a maroon suit addressing imaginary crowds before reading you tossups on "a chest of drawers".

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:11 am
by Sir Thopas
Ukonvasara wrote:
FredMorlan wrote:They've done that for quite a few years. It allows their readers to give more of a game show mentality to things.
It's just not quizbowl without a dude in a cerulean shirt and a maroon suit addressing imaginary crowds before reading you tossups on "a chest of drawers".
Would that I could be on that, um, panel.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:25 am
by Ben Dillon
If anyone's wondering, the "Saint Joseph" listed at the DC site is not my Indiana team. After twenty years of playing at NAC (with a high of 5th place in 2005), we are not competing there this year. Last year's competition was the last straw for our captain, who vowed never to play there again after getting hosed on several poorly-written questions. (One pivotal question in our last loss clearly called for a person at the beginning of the question, and our captain buzzed in exactly when I would have with the exact same seemingly correct answer, only to find that the rest of the question made it clear the answer was to be something entirely different, albeit having to do with that person.)

I will not say for certain that we will never participate again at NAC (especially since their three-weekend setup often meshes better with our school schedule), but I will cast my vote against it and players will probably follow suit. This year, we had NAQT write packets for our league and for our state tournament in the four-quarter format, and the results were simply higher-quality questions. (At state, there were zero protests on questions; last year, there were many, and there was one that necessitated changing the outcome of two games.)

I wish teams competing at NAC the best though!

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:20 pm
by SHP Pirate
The "St. Joseph's" playing in Chicago is from NJ. They play mostly NAC but have ventured into NAQT this year. They won the NJ State Championship tournament and, in my opinion, are a very solid team. They could easily win the Chicago phase of the tournament.

We at Seton Hall, after three consecutive top-ten finishes, like St. Joseph's from Indiana, have abandoned "NAC". We will be attending PACE this year and hopefully both PACE and NAQT next.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:49 pm
by Nuclear Densometer Test
SHP Pirate wrote:We at Seton Hall, after three consecutive top-ten finishes, like St. Joseph's from Indiana, have abandoned "NAC". We will be attending PACE this year and hopefully both PACE and NAQT next.
Good Choice. I remember watching you guys at NAC last year. I am sure you will do great at PACE.


And i second Zach's comment. I would love to see James Island play at PACE/NAQT next year.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 12:32 am
by etchdulac
As much drama as Dorothy Meek has had over the years with Chip... if she hasn't abandoned him already, she never will.

If my foggy recollection holds, the first post-Brad Harris team earned the top seed for playoffs in 1996, with Ryan Cooper as a freshman, then got Chipped on a challenge of some sort in an early playoff game against a Pennsylvania team... East HS I think. That was the one year out of five (95-99) that James Island did not play in the NAC title game. After they finally won the title in 99, Chip made a big production about, in essence, how they had finally not choked. Ever tactful.

A decade later, there they are, still going to Chip.

We fight this battle plenty in my state; Plano ISD could fund a Chip tournament by itself.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:33 am
by dxdtdemon
I find it strange that with lots of teams and so few games, that Defiance and Beachwood are playing each other in the prelims, assuming that these are the Defiance and Beachwood from Ohio.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:44 am
by David Riley
He has always done that.....once, when we attended NAC, we played a team that we saw virtually every weekend (Streatlor). Another year, Fairfield and Albion-Edwards Count (IL), two teams that are about fifteen miles apart, also played each other at NAC. Only the shadow knows! :grin:

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:59 am
by BobGHHS
That used to happen all the time at ASCN too. I distinctly remember having to play Copley (our arch-rival for 15 years) and another nearby Ohio school in 2 of our 3 prelim matches there in 2002, and that was only one year.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:23 am
by Ben Dillon
Chip has always used some sort of pairing chart that pairs teams according to their arrival time. He does this to be flexible for teams who have to arrive at different times. (This wouldn't be necessary if every team played every single round, because then there would be one starting time and not many.) So games that pair teams from the same state are coincidental in the preliminaries.

Also, games pairing teams from the same state in the playoffs are unavoidable because of seeding.

However, this wasn't always the case. About fifteen years ago, it was the case that in the playoffs, Chip would purposely pair teams from the same state so as to have teams in the semifinals and finals who represented geographic diversity. I remember watching a one-versus-two matchup of Irmo vs. Dorman in the first round, and most people were upset that this pairing was being forced.

Coaches' complaints eventually persuaded him to change this system, so in that respect, Chip is responsive to his clients.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:51 pm
by scquizbowl
Yes, it's like the one time that he had the 5 vs. 23 game in the Houston tournament, and the 23rd team won.

Here's the Washington schedule, just coming out in the last few hours. Junior National (Middle School) games are colored in purple.

http://www.qunlimited.com/wasched9.htm

A local team, Stratford, is going there. Washington has six games going on at once. Teams include Copley, Manheim Township, Parkersburg, Richard Montgomery :shock:, New Rochelle, and LAMP.


Joe
James Island '10

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:54 pm
by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite
Longfellow? Why?

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:18 pm
by Kouign Amann
NAC Schedule wrote:St. John's (Guam)
GUAM???

A team is really coming from GUAM to play in this crapfest? :monocle:

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:18 pm
by Down and out in Quintana Roo
Yeah, i heard RM was going to this and did a double take... i'm not sure why or what they're getting out of it, other than padding their college resumes since they can write "national championship" on there somewhere. Eh.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:32 pm
by ... and the chaos of Mexican modernity
Is the Wilson High School listed on the DC schedule Wilson High School from Orangeburg, SC? We invited them to our tournament, and they claim they didn't have a quizbowl team.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:35 pm
by Important Bird Area
Bakery, State, and Utopia wrote:Is the Wilson High School listed on the DC schedule Wilson High School from Orangeburg, SC?
I think it's more likely Wilson High School of West Lawn, PA, which has played NAC before.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:49 pm
by at your pleasure
There's a Wilson in the district, although I'm a little suprised to see DC area teams at NAC. I don't know what RM's doing at NAC either, except mabye to try and talk a few teams into spending their time and money on better tournaments. Harry, I'm not sure that Longfellow is the Longfellow that came to MOHIT; a quick Google indicates that Longfellow is a common name for a middle school. There's apparently one in noted :chip: stronghold Texas, so it's probably that one instead.
EDIT: Unless Jeff Hoppes is right about Wilson being from PA.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:02 pm
by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite
Well, the sisters of two of Longfellow's players play for TJ, and they have told me that they're going to Junior Chip, so I'm fairly certain it's the one that went to HAVOC.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:11 pm
by lagazzaladra
sadly, the Longfellow that has been going to quizbowl tournaments in the DC area is indeed going to NAC. But since they're a middle school, I don't know if you can really blame them.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:13 pm
by the return of AHAN
As the coach of a middle school team that had the top score in the state for the Great Auk this year, I can confirm that Jr. Chip invites the top middle school teams from Great Auk.
If I were to ever go to Jr. Chip (in an alternate universe where my team has more money than sense, and the IESA has no travel restrictions) it'd be for the chance to play a team like Longfellow. I can only assume Longfellow is going because they yearn to play other top schools in a face-to-face competition. This is why there needs to be a NAQT MSNCT (in Chicago, please, but I'll settle for Indy. Or St. Louis.).

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:10 am
by dxdtdemon
I had never heard of Licking Heights, and lived a county away from it doing physics demonstrations for a bunch of local school districts for four years.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:19 am
by wilsonmathteacher
Anti-Climacus wrote:There's a Wilson in the district, although I'm a little suprised to see DC area teams at NAC. I don't know what RM's doing at NAC either, except mabye to try and talk a few teams into spending their time and money on better tournaments. Harry, I'm not sure that Longfellow is the Longfellow that came to MOHIT; a quick Google indicates that Longfellow is a common name for a middle school. There's apparently one in noted :chip: stronghold Texas, so it's probably that one instead.
EDIT: Unless Jeff Hoppes is right about Wilson being from PA.
The Wilson at the NAC is definitely not Wilson High School in DC. We pinch our pennies so we can go to tourneys and get beaten by GDS and Maggie Walker on good questions. :smile:

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:58 am
by STPickrell
Hampton -- is that some NY school or Hampton (VA)?

I'd be very surprised if Franklin County is Franklin County (VA) as they only play their regional league and have never done well in there.

Monticello is in VA, they've made VHSL AA states a couple times. (EDIT: never mind, they're playing junior nationals)

Yorktown might be in VA, it's a walk down the street for them just about. I think they won their VHSL district.

Would be interesting to know what RichMo is doing there.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:45 pm
by suds1000
No offense to anyone who posted here, but the fact that this is in the "national tournaments" section makes me sad. And I've never even been to a :chip: tournament...all it took was my (Detroit) Country Day teammates telling me that I'd never want to go, and that appears to have been confirmed over the years.

Is playing Chip anything like playing CBI?

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:36 am
by rjaguar3
suds1000 wrote:
Is playing Chip anything like playing CBI?
Hardly. At CBI, they encourage the use of reliable sources (read: NOT PLAGIARIZING FROM THE INTERNET AND OTHER PACKETS) to write tossups on important academic subjects like protractors, anagrams, and Abraham Lincoln's hair. :grin:

Plus, the CBI officials don't try to turn the competition into a game show at every turn.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:37 am
by DumbJaques
Would be interesting to know what RichMo is doing there.
Richard Montgomery essentially has no vestiges of any program that people remember. McKenna is no longer teaching there, and the coaches have no idea what they're doing, as evidence by the fact that the team is going to NAC. I'm not sure why anyone would believe that going to Chip's tournament would help you get into college, but that seems to be the logic. Way to go, guys.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:01 am
by Cheynem
My horrifying Chip Beall memories from high school:

1. Flying out to NAC in California to play four matches spread out over a two day period.

2. Watching him promote non-existent sponsors to non-existent cameras.

3. Losing a game to a New York-based team on a geography/current events question about New York.

4. Being unable to identify the song "Unchained Melody" from an audio clip.

5. Being jobbed out of numerous points on QuizNet because of one typo.

6. Protesting on QuizNet and being denied and then being told we had lost our "one" protest.

7. Having to answer a question on "Ralph Fiennes" with the specification that only accurate pronounciation would be accepted.

8. Being told by our coach that we could go to a Dodgers game only to have him change his mind at the last minute.

9. Meeting ET at Univeral Studios and seeing the Waterworld attraction.

NON-HORRIFYING MEMORY

10. Never playing Chip again after my sophomore year after my coach happily discovered NAQT and eventually PACE.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 5:28 am
by Tegan
Cheynem wrote:3. Losing a game to a New York-based team on a geography/current events question about New York.
Remember, these questions are written months in advance ...

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:30 am
by jonpin
Tegan wrote:
Cheynem wrote:3. Losing a game to a New York-based team on a geography/current events question about New York.
Remember, these questions are written months in advance ...
Choose how this sentence will be finished:
(A) ...by other organizations.
(B) ...and put into packets once we saw the schedule.
(C) ...for last year's tournament.
(D) ...and yet we still haven't fact-checked them.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 1:57 pm
by Jeremy Gibbs Paradox
jonpin wrote:
Tegan wrote:
Cheynem wrote:3. Losing a game to a New York-based team on a geography/current events question about New York.
Remember, these questions are written months in advance ...
Choose how this sentence will be finished:
(A) ...by other organizations.
(B) ...and put into packets once we saw the schedule.
(C) ...for last year's tournament.
(D) ...and yet we still haven't fact-checked them.
(E) ...[all of the above].

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 3:02 pm
by scquizbowl
Well, our first game is against Cathedral at 4:30. I haven't seen any games yet, but I saw all of the people running it watching an old Jeopardy episode before we went to lunch. A lot of teams are here, but many more are dressing up than I thought.

Joe
James Island '10

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 7:17 pm
by scquizbowl
Well, we played our one game today, and we beat Indianapolis Cathedral by 205 points. It was not as good as I thought it would be, but James Island played well.

I've watched two other games besides our game, and in one of the games, they had a repeat bonus part from earlier on in the tournament (so they had to change bonuses). That necesitated a 5-minute delay. They also had a lot of music questions, including one on Glenn Miller, and another on Jack Benny. They also had jokes after many of the questions, like usual.

A team from Colorado, Lewis-Palmer, is playing well, as they beat Academics Plus of AR. There was one round we watched where the teams combined only got 3 out of all of the "Stump the Experts" questions.

Joe
James Island '10

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 4:42 pm
by scquizbowl
Today, we have already played three of our five games (James Island). We won all of them, and have two more to go. We did well against Chapin (getting a pack of chocolate cigarettes for sweeping a bonus round), but the other two games were closer than what we thought.

They're reusing categories already in the tournament, even though there's supposedly 7,000 questions for the three phases of the NAC this year. I've watched three games already today of other teams, and they reused stock symbols already, along with one or two others.

Thirty-four teams are in this phase, but there's 49 at Washington, and 37 in Chicago, making 117 teams for the three phases.

Lots of music questions and the same old, same old, like usual.

Joe
James Island '10

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:28 pm
by gstoye
Joe...

Any idea how High tech is doing?

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:14 pm
by Angry Babies in Love
Let me try to explain why we're going to NAC:
We don't have any people related to the program who spends anytime interacting with the quizbowl community, therefore we were unaware of the apparent poor quality of the tournament. If we still had McKenna we wouldn't be going. I didn't realize how bad it was until after the fact. Beyond that, I wasn't involved in the decision-making process, so IDK why we signed up (Probably simply naiveté among leadership) and why we didn't apply for a wild card to NSC (whether we would have gotten one or not is iffy, but we should have tried anyway)
I agree with Chris that we're not the RM of old. We're in a pretty sad state of affairs. Losing a coach and a captain was tough on us this year, both in the quality of play and the organization of the team.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:12 am
by fleurdelivre
Tegan wrote:
Cheynem wrote:3. Losing a game to a New York-based team on a geography/current events question about New York.
Remember, these questions are written months in advance ...
I thought of this post when reading a question on California to Rancho Bernardo and then one on Georgia to Brookwood at NSC...

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:08 am
by jonpin
fleurdelivre wrote:
Tegan wrote:
Cheynem wrote:3. Losing a game to a New York-based team on a geography/current events question about New York.
Remember, these questions are written months in advance ...
I thought of this post when reading a question on California to Rancho Bernardo and then one on Georgia to Brookwood at NSC...
For those who might not see, the difference is that 64 teams will hear each question at NSC and 100+ at HSNCT; thus any question that could possibly be local will be local to someone playing that round. At N "A" "C", there are what, 8 teams playing each round? If they had any initiative, they could put that question on Houston in one of the 20 rounds that St. John's isn't playing (for example).

Oh yeah and there's certified history of Chip trying to rig stuff.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:27 am
by evilmonkey
scquizbowl wrote: we beat Indianapolis Cathedral
I'm confused. Indianapolis Cathedral doesn't even play quizbowl. Like, I'm looking at the Indiana Quizbowl Website, and they didn't play anything...

Wait, no, they played the Indianapolis-only televised single elim quizbowl tournament, in which they lost in the quarter finals (that is, the 3rd round). That was the only quizbowl they played this year.

I believe that Chip Beall is in a dire situation.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:47 am
by Tegan
evilmonkey wrote:
scquizbowl wrote: we beat Indianapolis Cathedral
I'm confused. Indianapolis Cathedral doesn't even play quizbowl. Like, I'm looking at the Indiana Quizbowl Website, and they didn't play anything...

Wait, no, they played the Indianapolis-only televised single elim quizbowl tournament, in which they lost in the quarter finals (that is, the 3rd round). That was the only quizbowl they played this year.

I believe that Chip Beall is in a dire situation.
Or ... Mr. Beall doesn't have an ethical issue running a national tournament by inviting, and perhaps strongly encouraging teams through cold calling, with zero or next to zero experience to participate. He has their money; to heck if they actually stand a chance to win.

I strongly suspect it is a mixture of both.

Comparing the standards that it takes to get into PACE or the HSNCT, this does nothing but reduce the value of winning the NAC. If I were a team that regularly attended the NAC, knowing this would greatly upset me.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:30 pm
by Ben Dillon
I'm going to guess that Indianapolis Cathedral got in by way of Twenty Questions. Perhaps the White River League should ask them to participate in their conference. (White River teams already exclusively choose Chip for their nationals.)

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:51 pm
by scquizbowl
Well, Horace Greeley and Jesuit made the finals, and Horace Greeley beat Jesuit (a local New Orleans team), and won by 100 points. They were a good team, and I congratulate them for winning. The tournament was the same old same old as before, with chocolate cigarettes, Chip's rambling about the games, and comments after most of the questions.

The controversy that I will talk about was during the semifinals game between James Island and Jesuit. It was an amazing game, with two 120 point lightning rounds, one by each sides, and about 5 lead changes. The game ended as a five point win for Jesuit. However, the game was just about stolen from us, with a question that's not normally in most quiz bowl competitions.

The question, the very first question of the game, was about a New Orleans group called Cash Money Millionaires, and the term they came up. Travis said the term correctly, as we thought. Jesuit, however, protested, as they believed that what we said was wrong. Since it was only a five point tossup, the only way that it would be protested is if it was a 5 point game.

It happened to be a five point game, and we got the last two questions. We apparently won, and we had already shaken hands, and the Jesuit team was already congratulating us on our win. However, Chip decided to make the protest, and they agreed that what Travis said was apparenly wrong, and they took the five points from us, and :chip:, instead of making a replacement question for both teams, decided to give Jesuit, and only Jesuit, a replacement five-point question.

It happened to be about a Democratic National Convention and its city, and they got it easily. The next question happened to be a difficult Math question that none of us could have gotten, and they won by five points. As we felt, he wanted a local team to be in the finals, and that we were gypped. During the finals, he called a friend of his about some physics answer, which was right, and that gave them 30 extra points, which made it close for a while.

Joe
James Island '10

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:58 pm
by Down and out in Quintana Roo
:roll:

I can't say that i'm surprised about anything you just typed there, Joe. Sorry you had to see it first hand, but that's :chip:'s bullcrap for you.

Re: NAC schedule info/tournament thread

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:22 pm
by BobGHHS
Yeah, typical garbage. I remember my senior year, one of our players rang in and Chip said "Garfield, Abhishek" and Ab gave the answer. After which, something to the effect of "you were verbally recognized, but not physically" was brought up by :chip: because he was apparently supposed to point at us or something. We were also playing some local school or a school that had been going to NAC for years. We ended up losing the match by the same margin.

The only thing I really remember is that I was looking down at the table and I heard a loud slam, and looked up to see where my coach had been sitting, and one single paper was just floating to the ground. If he had stayed, he would've punched Chip in the face, guaranteed.

Joe, will this be the final straw to get JI to stop going to NAC?