08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

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08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE »

With 16 ballots received, State College Area High School finished 1st in 6 of them and no lower than 3rd in any of them, giving them 386 points out of a possible 400. Charter School of Wilmington was 2nd, with 370 points and five first place votes. Hunter, Maggie Walker, Dorman, Walter Johnson, Georgetown Day School, Detroit Catholic Central, Thomas Jefferson, Gonzaga, Chaska and Brookwood join them as the only teams to appear on every ballot.

Your top 25:

1. State College, 386 points (6 first place votes) (best: 1st, worst: 3rd)
2. Charter, 370 points (5 first place votes) (best: 1st, worst: 6th)
3. Hunter, 365 points (5 first place votes) (best: 1st, worst: 8th)
4. Maggie Walker, 348 points (best: 2nd, worst: 6th)
5. Dorman, 344 points (best: 3rd, worst: 6th)
6. Walter Johnson, 328 points (best: 2nd, worst: 12th)
7. Georgetown Day School, 296 points (best: 6th, worst: 16th)
8. Detroit Catholic Central, 255 points (best: 8th, worst: 14th)
9. Thomas Jefferson, 244 points (best: 4th, worst: 14th)
10. Gonzaga, 219 points (best: 7th, worst: 25th)
11. Stow-Munroe Falls, 211 points (best: 7th, 15 of 16 ballots)
12. Rockford Auburn, 184 points (best: 6th, 14 of 16 ballots)
13. Rancho Bernardo, 173 points (best: 8th, 14 of 16 ballots)
14. New Trier, 170 points (best: 7th, 14 of 16 ballots)
15. Chaska, 164 points (best: 10th, worst: 24th)
16. Walt Whitman, 139 points (best: 10th, 15 of 16 ballots)
17. Brookwood, 134 points (best: 10th, worst: 25th)
18. Detroit Country Day, 113 points (best: 6th, 8 of 16 ballots)
19. Dunbar, 92 points (best: 13th, 13 of 16 ballots)
20. Bergen County, 74 points (best: 16th, 11 of 16 ballots)
21. Chattahoochee, 56 points (best: 14th, 11 of 16 ballots)
22. Kellenberg, 52 points (best: 13th, 10 of 16 ballots)
23. James Monroe, 49 points (best: 17th, 9 of 16 ballots)
24. Southside, 47 points (best: 12th, 6 of 16 ballots)
25. James Island, 43 points (best: 17th, 9 of 16 ballots)

Also receiving votes: Carbondale, 41 points; Dorman B, 33 points; Raleigh Charter, 31; Hoover High, 31; Eden Prairie, 25; Bellaire, 23; Walton, 23; Stuyvesant, 19; Walnut Hills, 14; Shady Side, 14; Mission San Jose, 12; Loyola, 11; LASA, 9; Arcadia, 7; Ransom Everglades, 7; Lakeside, 7; Half Hollow Hills West, 6; Grosse Point North, 6; duPont Manual, 5; Cosby, 5; Pensacola, 4; State College B, 4; Centennial, 2; Hunter B, 1; St. Anselm's, 1; Santa Monica, 1; Caesar Rodney, 1
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by Kouign Amann »

FredMorlan wrote:Also receiving votes:St. Anselm's, 1
Hey Fred, are you going to post individual ballots? Because I want to see what kind of great fool thought we even remotely deserved a vote.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by master15625 »

He said he will post it probably next week in the previous page.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by Kouign Amann »

master15625 wrote:He said he will post it probably next week in the previous page.
Oops, sorry. Missed that.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by lagazzaladra »

I'm sure you guys are better than you're giving yourself credit for. I haven't had the opportunity to play you yet, Aidan, but you're stats do look really impressive.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AlphaQuizBowler »

Brookwood below Whitman and Gonzaga?
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by cdcarter »

AlphaQuizBowler wrote:Brookwood below Whitman and Gonzaga?
I'm sure Gonzaga's performance at MATT helped this.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by Dan Greenstein »

Members of the Pre-Nationals Top 25 attending each of the 2008-2009 national championship tournaments:

PACE National Scholastics Championship: 22 out of 25 (all except: #18 Detroit Country Day, #20 Bergen County, #25 James Island)

NAQT High School National Championship Tournament*: 19 out of 25 (all except: #3 Hunter, #10 Gonzaga, #16 Walt Whitman, #23 James Monroe, #24 Southside, #25 James Island)

QU National Academic Championship: ONE out of 25 (#25 James Island)

* based on this blog post
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Good post, Daniel. I was wondering those things myself.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by evilmonkey »

Let me preface my statement by saying that I may have had the most interesting ballot.

Looking at these results, I see something way off:

8. Detroit Catholic Central, 255 points (best: 8th, worst: 14th)
18. Detroit Country Day, 113 points (best: 6th, 8 of 16 ballots)

Digging through the stats, DCC and DCD have played three times this year - UM Autumn (DCC 455-265), DCC Invitational (DCD 385-285), and Michigan NAQT State (DCD 380-325). While you may bluster about "NAQT produces strange results", the fact of the matter is that the evidence that we have on Detroit Country Day indicates that they are around the same level. At Michigan NAQT State, DCD had a Bonus Conversion of 23.22 to DCC's 21.89; at UM Autumn, it was DCD's 23.84 to DCC's 20.98. (The DCC invitational didn't have BC stats).

If DCC had been placed in the 20s, I could understand not ranking DCD. But eight of you believe that DCC is in the top 15 AND DCD is NOT in the top 25. (By the way, if you remove my 6th place vote for DCD - the other 7 ballots that voted for DCD averaged 13.5; that is, the average ranking was about 12.5) Just wanted to point this out.

Edit: Realized that this is a bit confrontational in tone. I apologize for that - I really do understand that it is difficult to rank 25 teams when most haven't even seen half.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by TheKingInYellow »

Prove us wrong ;D
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Bryce, one factor that probably helped DCC place so much higher than DCD is that DCC travels a lot more and played a lot of the DC-area teams. Also, DCC has proven themselves on non-NAQT questions; while I don't have my information pulled up right now, I can't recall if DCD did anything like HSAPQ or NAQT alternatives.

But, I agree - one of my biggest criticisms of the poll is that "name" teams will get ranked higher than teams that are new to the national consciousness. DCD is quite good, though, no mistake about it.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by master15625 »

TheKingInYelliow wrote:Prove us wrong ;D
What exactly do you mean by this? I don't see why you need to have stated that. It was his opinion, you shouldn't be criticizing it. He doesn't have to prove anything.

We didn't travel a lot that is true, but we aren't really the most capable team of travelling to where we want to when we want to. But I am really happy that we were given an opportunity to go to nationals this year.

BTW, we did play CC A twice early on the year in October and November with non NAQT questions. We lost both.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by TheKingInYellow »

Sorry if I've offended you or something, it was meant as a friendly challenge for the upcoming national tourneys
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by master15625 »

TheKingInYelliow wrote:Sorry if I've offended you or something, it was meant as a friendly challenge for the upcoming national tourneys
I am really bad at noticing stuff like this. I thought you were actually being confrontational. Sorry. :oops:
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by dbarman »

AlphaQuizBowler wrote:Brookwood below Whitman and Gonzaga?
Not to take away from how good Brookwood is, but by my experience, Gonzaga has an edge over Brookwood. Whitman probably does also
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by Joe Romersa »

Why does Santa Monica always finish below Arcadia in the polls?
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by Tower Monarch »

al3xWal3x wrote:Why does Santa Monica always finish below Arcadia in the polls?
Once you get to the rankings below 25, it's just a matter of which teams people have heard of. So, I guess you're not popular enough. :wink:
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by Joe Romersa »

Tower Monarch wrote:
al3xWal3x wrote:Why does Santa Monica always finish below Arcadia in the polls?
Once you get to the rankings below 25, it's just a matter of which teams people have heard of. So, I guess you're not popular enough. :wink:
see my sig. im from Arcadia.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE »

I will now start listing ballots. Teams will be listed from 1st to 25th. I'll also start off with my ballot, because I think I was proven wrong on a few points and, as the person publishing individual ballots, should certainly take my lumps.

Fred
Hunter College High School A
Walter Johnson High School
State College Area High School A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Charter School of Wilmington A
Maggie Walker A
Georgetown Day School
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Rancho Bernardo High School
Chaska High School
Thomas Jefferson A
Southside High School A
Eden Prairie
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Bellaire High School A
New Trier High School
Detroit Country Day School
Gonzaga College High School
Lakeside High School
Bergen County Academies
James Monroe High School
Brookwood High School
Walton High School
Chattahoochee High School
Walnut Hills
Bryce Durgin
Hunter College High School A
Maggie Walker A
State College Area High School A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Thomas Jefferson A
Detroit Country Day School
Charter School of Wilmington A
Rancho Bernardo High School
Rockford Auburn
New Trier High School
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Walter Johnson High School
Walnut Hills
Mission San Jose
Loyola Academy
Georgetown Day School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Chaska High School
Walt Whitman
Bergen County Academies
duPont Manual
Brookwood High School
Chattahoochee High School
James Monroe High School
Gonzaga College High School
Isaac Hirsch
Hunter College High School A
Charter School of Wilmington A
State College Area High School A
Maggie Walker A
Walter Johnson High School
Georgetown Day School
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Thomas Jefferson A
Gonzaga College High School
Brookwood High School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Rancho Bernardo High School
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Rockford Auburn
Walt Whitman
Shady Side
Kellenberg
Detroit Country Day School
Walton High School
Half Hollow Hills West
James Monroe High School
Dunbar
Chaska High School
Centennial
Caesar Rodney
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Matthew Hawlik of Ransom Everglades
Charter School of Wilmington A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
State College Area High School A
Maggie Walker A
Walter Johnson High School
Georgetown Day School
New Trier High School
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Hunter College High School A
Walt Whitman
Gonzaga College High School
Rancho Bernardo High School
Chaska High School
Thomas Jefferson A
Kellenberg
Brookwood High School
LASA
Bergen County Academies
Ransom Everglades
Southside High School A
Arcadia
Pensacola
Chattahoochee High School
James Island
Dunbar
Brother Nigel
State College Area High School A
Charter School of Wilmington A
Hunter College High School A
Walter Johnson High School
Maggie Walker A
Georgetown Day School
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Gonzaga College High School
Walt Whitman
Detroit Country Day School
Thomas Jefferson A
Brookwood High School
New Trier High School
Dunbar
Chaska High School
James Island
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Hoover High School
Rockford Auburn
Cosby
Rancho Bernardo High School
Walton High School
James Monroe High School
Kellenberg
Matt Weiner
Hunter College High School A
State College Area High School A
Walter Johnson High School
Maggie Walker A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Charter School of Wilmington A
Georgetown Day School
Rancho Bernardo High School
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Chaska High School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Thomas Jefferson A
Southside High School A
Bellaire High School A
Gonzaga College High School
Rockford Auburn
James Monroe High School
Walton High School
Brookwood High School
Chattahoochee High School
Carbondale
Walt Whitman
James Island
Dunbar
Santa Monica
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Raymond Taralia of Caesar Rodney
Charter School of Wilmington A
State College Area High School A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Maggie Walker A
Hunter College High School A
Georgetown Day School
Walter Johnson High School
Detroit Country Day School
Rockford Auburn
Gonzaga College High School
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Thomas Jefferson A
New Trier High School
Dunbar
Carbondale
Raleigh Charter
Brookwood High School
Walt Whitman
Stuyvesant
Chattahoochee High School
Southside High School A
Rancho Bernardo High School
Chaska High School
Hoover High School
Chuhern Hwang
Charter School of Wilmington A
State College Area High School A
Hunter College High School A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Walter Johnson High School
Maggie Walker A
Georgetown Day School
Rockford Auburn
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Rancho Bernardo High School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Thomas Jefferson A
New Trier High School
Brookwood High School
Gonzaga College High School
Chaska High School
Dunbar
James Monroe High School
Chattahoochee High School
Walt Whitman
Bergen County Academies
Hoover High School
Kellenberg
Carbondale
James Island
William Horton
Charter School of Wilmington A
State College Area High School A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Maggie Walker A
Hunter College High School A
Walter Johnson High School
Georgetown Day School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Thomas Jefferson A
Brookwood High School
Gonzaga College High School
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Kellenberg
Chattahoochee High School
Walt Whitman
Stuyvesant
Bergen County Academies
Rockford Auburn
New Trier High School
Dorman B
Dunbar
James Island
Chaska High School
Walton High School
Rancho Bernardo High School
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Graham & Ben of State College
State College Area High School A
Hunter College High School A
Maggie Walker A
Charter School of Wilmington A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Walter Johnson High School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Georgetown Day School
Rancho Bernardo High School
Thomas Jefferson A
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Gonzaga College High School
Dunbar
Chaska High School
Walt Whitman
Bergen County Academies
Dorman B
Brookwood High School
James Island
New Trier High School
Rockford Auburn
State College B
Chattahoochee High School
Southside High School A
Hunter B
Neil Gurram
State College Area High School A
Charter School of Wilmington A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Maggie Walker A
Hunter College High School A
Rockford Auburn
Gonzaga College High School
Walter Johnson High School
Detroit Country Day School
New Trier High School
Thomas Jefferson A
Georgetown Day School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Raleigh Charter
Brookwood High School
Chaska High School
James Island
Bergen County Academies
Walt Whitman
Carbondale
Grosse Point North
Kellenberg
Dunbar
Eden Prairie
George Stevens
State College Area High School A
Hunter College High School A
Charter School of Wilmington A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Walter Johnson High School
Maggie Walker A
Georgetown Day School
Thomas Jefferson A
Gonzaga College High School
Rockford Auburn
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Dorman B
Dunbar
New Trier High School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Carbondale
Walt Whitman
Southside High School A
Raleigh Charter
Chaska High School
Hoover High School
Bergen County Academies
Chattahoochee High School
Grosse Point North
Brookwood High School
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Ian Eppler
State College Area High School A
Charter School of Wilmington A
Hunter College High School A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Georgetown Day School
Maggie Walker A
Walter Johnson High School
Gonzaga College High School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Rockford Auburn
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Thomas Jefferson A
Rancho Bernardo High School
Chaska High School
Walt Whitman
Detroit Country Day School
New Trier High School
Dunbar
Brookwood High School
James Monroe High School
Hoover High School
Chattahoochee High School
Stuyvesant
Kellenberg
St. Anselm's
Charlie Rosenthal
State College Area High School A
Hunter College High School A
Maggie Walker A
Charter School of Wilmington A
Walter Johnson High School
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Georgetown Day School
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Thomas Jefferson A
Chaska High School
Rockford Auburn
Rancho Bernardo High School
New Trier High School
Gonzaga College High School
Walt Whitman
Brookwood High School
Chattahoochee High School
Dunbar
Carbondale
Bergen County Academies
Hoover High School
James Monroe High School
Kellenberg
James Island
Andrew Chrzanowski
Charter School of Wilmington A
State College Area High School A
Walter Johnson High School
Maggie Walker A
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Georgetown Day School
Hunter College High School A
Thomas Jefferson A
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Detroit Country Day School
Gonzaga College High School
New Trier High School
Chaska High School
Rancho Bernardo High School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Rockford Auburn
Walt Whitman
Bergen County Academies
Brookwood High School
Dunbar
Hoover High School
Dorman B
Raleigh Charter
Arcadia
Kellenberg
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Matt Jackson
Hunter College High School A
State College Area High School A
Maggie Walker A
Charter School of Wilmington A
Walter Johnson High School
Paul M. Dorman High School A
Georgetown Day School
Detroit Catholic Central High School
Stow-Munroe Falls High School
Chaska High School
Rockford Auburn
Gonzaga College High School
Rancho Bernardo High School
New Trier High School
Eden Prairie
Thomas Jefferson A
James Monroe High School
James Island
Kellenberg
Bergen County Academies
Walt Whitman
Shady Side
Carbondale
Brookwood High School
Raleigh Charter
That is every ballot.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE »

I'll be making a post about the post-nationals poll soon.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE »

And while I'm at it: what can I do to get the number of voters up? Are people not voting because their ballots will be revealed? We had 18 and 22 ballots for the first two of these I did (back in 2007), and since then we've gone down to 10 to 15.
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

FredMorlan wrote:And while I'm at it: what can I do to get the number of voters up? Are people not voting because their ballots will be revealed? We had 18 and 22 ballots for the first two of these I did (back in 2007), and since then we've gone down to 10 to 15.
Fly people out to WoQ. :grin: It was a mix of laziness/time constraints that kept me from doing the stat studies necessary to make a good poll, having only seen Illinois teams until now. Having been at HSNCT, I've got some pretty good ideas of who the top 25 are and would fill out a post-nats poll, if one is going to be held.
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Kouign Amann
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Re: 08-09 Pre-Nationals Poll Results - Congrats State College!

Post by Kouign Amann »

FredMorlan wrote:And while I'm at it: what can I do to get the number of voters up? Are people not voting because their ballots will be revealed? We had 18 and 22 ballots for the first two of these I did (back in 2007), and since then we've gone down to 10 to 15.
I think reducing the number of rankings to maybe 15 or 20 instead of 25 could help. Once you start getting down to those 20ish level teams, the picture is much less clear and much harder to sort out, perhaps discouraging voting.
Aidan Mehigan
St. Anselm's Abbey School '12
Columbia University '16 | University of Oxford '17 | UPenn GSE '19
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