The Quizbowl Resource Center

Looking at how strongly arts-dominated that is, it might make sense to move RMP to a separate test.

That would actually make a lot of sense.
We could just have a fine arts test, and then test with either RMP or Misc. things that didn't fit anywhere else.
Most of the people who are strong in this test are arts quizbowl players anyway.

Congratulations to all of the teams that did well at state.

Quick Recall:
1st Dunbar
2nd Johnson Central
3rd Manual
4th St. X

5th
Grayson
Adair
Pikeville
Russell

I was happy about how things went in general. However, I was a little upset that our match with St. X came down to a claim that I answered "Higrogatix" instead of hydrolysis. I think that the appropriate thing to do would have been to have me repeat my answer. St. X, however, showed very good sportsmanship and was definitely one of the best teams in the state.
(Edited to prevent a triple post.)

St. X was a dark horse team and turned out very good. They beat us (MNHHS) in the first round 25-24. They got math questions left and right, and our inability to capitalize on questions they missed came back to bite us. I got Pancho Villa near the end and could have tied the game but we spent too long on the retarded 9/11-Philippe Pétain bonus and we lost the game. And so my high school academic team career draws to a close.

Congrats to all involved. I wish I could've done better though, personally.

I had a lot of fun at State, and the competition was great. That being said, something needs to be done in the future about the officials. In our match against St. X to make it to the Semis, Scott buzzed in and said, "hydrolysis", and 99% of the people in the room agreed that they heard him say it (even St. X's own side of the audience), but there was nothing we could do about it. He should have been asked to repeat his answer at the very least. Due to this situation, it seems like it would be wise in the future for KAAC to institute some sort of voice or video recording system, allowing protests of pronunciation disputes. Also, the inquiry system in itself is awful. There should be a protest system so you can resolve any disputes immediately while it is fresh in the minds of the players and officials. Finally, there needs to be some sort of required training for officials so that they can actually make correct calls or guarantee that they can read at an adequate pace. Regardless, I'm proud of how my team performed and I'd like to congratulate Dunbar on a well-deserved victory.

Beastman wrote:I had a lot of fun at State, and the competition was great. That being said, something needs to be done in the future about the officials. In our match against St. X to make it to the Semis, Scott buzzed in and said, "hydrolysis", and 99% of the people in the room agreed that they heard him say it (even St. X's own side of the audience), but there was nothing we could do about it. He should have been asked to repeat his answer at the very least. Due to this situation, it seems like it would be wise in the future for KAAC to institute some sort of voice or video recording system, allowing protests of pronunciation disputes. Also, the inquiry system in itself is awful. There should be a protest system so you can resolve any disputes immediately while it is fresh in the minds of the players and officials. Finally, there needs to be some sort of required training for officials so that they can actually make correct calls or guarantee that they can read at an adequate pace. Regardless, I'm proud of how my team performed and I'd like to congratulate Dunbar on a well-deserved victory.

Asking him to repeat the answer makes the most sense. However, if the moderator thought he heard something completely different, then they would not have a reason to ask him to repeat it. This is an error that can occur in any format and I imagine almost everyone has had something like this happen to them at some point.

Voice/video recording seems like it would cause more problems than it would help prevent (any time there was any dispute on anything, one of the coaches would want to "go to the tape"). Just one instance of that a match would slow it down significantly

The inquiry system is definitely flawed. I've seen far too many games come down to "rules lawyering" via inquiries.

Officials do have to go to a training and get certified to make correct calls. It doesn't prevent all mistakes, but it does stop a lot.

I would guess that the pacing issues have more to do with trying to fit in 50 much longer questions into a 15 minute half than someone necessarily being a bad reader.

Asking him to repeat the answer makes the most sense. However, if the moderator thought he heard something completely different, then they would not have a reason to ask him to repeat it. This is an error that can occur in any format and I imagine almost everyone has had something like this happen to them at some point.

There was no real way to mistake "hydrolysis" for "hygrolysis" unless you're looking to hear a "g". And it does happen a lot, but considering it kept us out of semis, I'm inclined to see a major problem with it.

Voice/video recording seems like it would cause more problems than it would help prevent (any time there was any dispute on anything, one of the coaches would want to "go to the tape"). Just one instance of that a match would slow it down significantly

Well, the voice/video thing would only need to be used for pronunciation disputes. Which is necessary, in my opinion, because there is nothing you can do currently according to the rules to protest an incorrect call like that.

Officials do have to go to a training and get certified to make correct calls. It doesn't prevent all mistakes, but it does stop a lot.

Whatever training is in place needs to be drastically reformed then, because some officials have repeatedly made bad calls.

The pacing isn't such a big problem, but it can be important when one reader can get through 40+ and others only get about 35 in. Honestly, I'd like to see them separate the toss-ups and bonuses for this reason. We don't need to hear five clues on a bonus that is given away in the last line. It's a major waste of time.

The only training that officials must go through is training by their school's coach. Sometimes, the coaches may not be in a position to effectively train these officials.

Also, I found it strange that when you said the incorrect unit, answers were counted incorrect, but when no unit was given at all, the answers more counted correct.
I noticed this several times this weekend.

I do not want to sound like I am griping about our placement; I would just like to help prevent circumstances like this in the future.

grayson77 wrote:Also, I found it strange that when you said the incorrect unit, answers were counted incorrect, but when no unit was given at all, the answers more counted correct.

Well yeah, you can't really say that 2km is equivalent to 2m and then gripe about it. I see your point here, but the way KAAC should fix that is by eliminating the units rule (or, even better, eliminating comp altogether).
It seems like KAAC definitely tried to make their questions more pyramidal and this is very commendable. But I feel like there is still some progress to be made. Some of the questions had hooks, too much biographical info, and it seems like a couple of question writers seemed to confuse obscure tossups with pyramidal tossups. (Also way too many questions in the format ".... name this writer who won the Pulitzer Prize in __________).

Voice/video recording seems like it would cause more problems than it would help prevent (any time there was any dispute on anything, one of the coaches would want to "go to the tape"). Just one instance of that a match would slow it down significantly

Well, the voice/video thing would only need to be used for pronunciation disputes. Which is necessary, in my opinion, because there is nothing you can do currently according to the rules to protest an incorrect call like that.

Most teams would not allow working microphones on their tables as was witnessed this weekend. In the matches I officiated or watched the KAAC furnished microphones were turned off or directly away from the players. I think it would be very difficult to voice record students to any degree of accuracy.

As an official, if I have any doubt, I ask the student to repeat. If I hear the wrong answer or mispronunciation the first time I do not ask the student to repeat.

On another note, we played two matches and had terrible moderators and judges. There was was no advantage gained by either team but I hate getting to the state and having moderators and judges that are several ability levels below what we had at the region.

Most teams would not allow working microphones on their tables as was witnessed this weekend. In the matches I officiated or watched the KAAC furnished microphones were turned off or directly away from the players. I think it would be very difficult to voice record students to any degree of accuracy.

That was because the microphones amplified your voice, which would allow the other team to hear you confer. If they were made to simply record, that problem would be solved. Really though, a lot of problems would be solved just by switching to good quizbowl. Maybe hire some HSAPQ, NAQT, PACE writers and lose some of the formality. And asking for name and number on a leader is ridiculous. Those were probably some of the worst questions asked.

Props to the 15th region for taking first in every written assessment category. Way to combat stereotypes!

Well, so ends the era of Governor's Cup being held in Louisville. KAAC has moved it to Lexington for at least the next 2 years, a decision I'm not sure that I like.

Does any one know why exactly state is moving to Lexington?
I do not have a problem with it, but it seems strange to change to a less central location.

Also, I have heard that KAAC is going to use separate tossup and bonus packets next year.
Has anyone else heard anything about this change?

ericblair wrote:Props to the 15th region for taking first in every written assessment category. Way to combat stereotypes!

I literally just realized that; you beat me to the punch, haha.
Yeah congrats to Brad, Shikha, and Jack.

And a big thank you to Eric from moi.

grayson77 wrote:Does any one know why exactly state is moving to Lexington?
I do not have a problem with it, but it seems strange to change to a less central location.

Also, I have heard that KAAC is going to use separate tossup and bonus packets next year.
Has anyone else heard anything about this change?

Isn't Lexington more central than Louisville?

I haven't heard about that change Scott, but it would certainly be welcome.

Coach K wrote:Isn't Lexington more central than Louisville?

If you go by north-south, then Lexington is more central. If you go by east-west, then Louisville is more central. It's not a huge difference either way.

If you go by north-south, then Lexington is more central. If you go by east-west, then Louisville is more central. It's not a huge difference either way.

It's kind of a huge difference for teams in the Jackson Purchase. Louisville makes more sense as Kentucky is elongated. But, it doesn't matter much to me. I'm just happy about never having to play quick recall again.

Faiyad wrote:

ericblair wrote:Props to the 15th region for taking first in every written assessment category. Way to combat stereotypes!

I literally just realized that; you beat me to the punch, haha.
Yeah congrats to Brad, Shikha, and Jack.

And a big thank you to Eric from moi.

Haha. Congratulations to you, sir.

I thought state was pretty fun this year and the questions did seem pretty improved. However, I think the match time should be expanded. This Gov. Cup season, I think we only got through one full set of questions before the clock caught us. (Mrs. Burton was reading, and we interrupted bonuses to make it work) lol
Doesn't it also seem a bit superfluous to read pyramidal bonuses when we're going to hear the "giveaway" eventually? I think more pyramidal tossups with related, shorter bonuses might be good.

grayson77 wrote:Does any one know why exactly state is moving to Lexington?

The location is determined by bid and Lexington had the better bid for the next two years. Also, the Galt House would not "hold" the desired dates for the next two years. It'll be different in Lexington, especially the hotel situation.

quantumtheory wrote:

grayson77 wrote:Does any one know why exactly state is moving to Lexington?

The location is determined by bid and Lexington had the better bid for the next two years. Also, the Galt House would not "hold" the desired dates for the next two years. It'll be different in Lexington, especially the hotel situation.

Which hotel is it going to be at in Lexington?

My understanding for State Governor's Cup 2011 is that it will be downtown Lexington and will incoroporate Heritage Hall, the Radisson, and the Hyatt. I know that there has been a great deal of money poured into those hotels for renovation and the more central location makes sense.

On a side note I have a couple of questions. In the next few weeks I'll be setting a date for the 2011 Fleming County Academic Tournament. My intention is to keep it on the second or third Saturday of January, and keep a Governor's Cup format tournament. It's my belief that keeping the timing and format the same makes for a good lead in to district and regional competition. My questions are these:

1. Since KAAC seems to be trending its quick recall questions in a more pyramidal direction does anyone have a good lead on a source for more pyramidal questions that I can get in Gov. Cup format? I've got a decent source in more 2 or 3 line questions but would like to mix in something more in line with what KAAC seems to be doing.

2. The current format limits us to how many teams we can really work in. I'm leaning toward keeping the same pool play and seeded elimination rounds, but wonder if teams from further away, especially those that come up on Friday night, would be interested (we haven't decided on this yet) in playing two or three rounds on Friday. Those rounds wouldn't count toward seeding or pool play, but could give folks a few extra games.

I'm not sure if there is anyone who produces pyramidal questions in a Governor's Cup format right now. It would be nice to know if there is someone who does, and if there isn't it would be wonderful is some people committed to good quizbowl in Kentucky were able to start producing questions for use at quizbowl tournaments in the state of Kentucky.

Speaking of things like that (and next year in general) there is something that I'd love to see happen by next year:

The establishment of some sort of "Quizbowl Alliance" in Kentucky similar to what there is in Missouri and Texas. With 3 colleges (UofL, Centre, and WKU) having active quizbowl teams and more high schools than ever participating in quality tournaments, I definitely think we can do this. If all of us who support good, pyramidal quizbowl band together and organize our efforts, I see no reason why we can't establish a circuit in this state where good tournaments are happening at least 8-10 times every year. An organized effort could help us better prepare for things like the HSAPQ All-Star tryout, spread good quizbowl to teams who haven't been exposed to it yet, and allow Kentucky teams to compete better on a national level.

If anybody is interested in something like this (or if anyone has already been planning something like this and I haven't heard about it yet) feel free to contact me (my e-mail is [email protected]) and I will commit the WKU Academic Competition Club to doing whatever needed to help out in this effort. I'd like to stress that my desire is not to undercut KAAC in anyway, but to enhance the competition circuit that exists outside of Governor's Cup.

My understanding for State Governor's Cup 2011 is that it will be downtown Lexington and will incoroporate Heritage Hall, the Radisson, and the Hyatt. I know that there has been a great deal of money poured into those hotels for renovation and the more central location makes sense.

The main problem is the two hotels associated with Heritage Hall have about 730 rooms available whereas the Galt House has 1250 rooms and suites. Not all of the rooms are available for KAAC use but a big percentage are on Governor's Cup weekend. With this difference there will be teams housed at remote hotels with the Holiday Inn on New Circle being the first choice.

Last year, several teams in Louisville (Manual, Eastern, Ballard, St. X) organized a quiz bowl league. We purchased questions from NAQT and played each other every other week for a few months. Each school was allowed multiple teams and we did random draw and then power matching. All teams involved were really just doing it for good practice. This year I wasn't able to organize it due to other commitments. We'd definitely be interested in doing something similar again.

We would definitely be interested in that next year, Mrs. Hunt.
The drive would be worth the practice.

Grayson is actually considering trying to start a Central KY quizbowl league.
Edmonson has expressed interest and if Adair or some Louisville schools were interested, we could try to actually organize one.

http://web.moqba.org/

That's the website for the Missouri Quizbowl Alliance, a good look into what such an organization would be like. What I like so much about their organization is that they don't actually set up and run a bunch of their own tournaments, but they endorse certain events that fit the standards of good quizbowl and assist individual hosts in running the event. If we were to do something similar in Kentucky, we could use the existing schedule to build around instead of creating a large organization.

We're now only 8 days away from Kentucky NAQT, and the field is looking strong. Any predictions?

Mine are:

1. Dunbar A
2. Manual A
3. Dunbar B
4. Manual B
5. Adair County A
6. Russell

I would say pretty much the same thing, but added onto.

1. Dunbar A
2. Manual A
3. Dunbar B
4. Manual B
5. Adair County A
6. Russell
7. Grayson
8. St. X
9. Dunbar C
10. Manual C

BTW, Dunbar will be depleted, missing at least Brian and myself

Also, a few other schools are sending JV teams. The format is still going to be rebracketing, but the prelims may be different. I have had some teams withdraw.
Matt Church
U of L

Is there any hope for a KY All-Star team?

I just got the confirmation from my principal today. The 2011 edition of the Fleming County Academic Tournament will be Saturday January 15th at Fleming County High School in Flemingsburg Kentucky.

With us keeping the date that close to district Governor's Cup we will keep the format the same as Governor's Cup quick recall (but we'll shorten the games to 40 question halves like the prelims at state to get an extra round or two).

We'll keep the entry fee the same as in the past ($60), and we will guarantee everyone five games (although there is the possibilty of expanding the field IF I can get enough help). There will be "A" and "B" divisions ("B" division is not necessarily limited to jv).

Also, if there's enough interest, we are considering adding a Friday night session. The Friday session (if feasible) WILL NOT count toward the seedings for the elimination bracket. Basically what we're thinking with the Friday games is that if we have teams that require an overnight stay, and are willing to travel in the night before we'd like to get them as many games as possible.

I would be more than happy to be an alternate and go to watch if there is an all-star team.
I'm probably not good enough to be on it yet though.

Rather than start a millionth thread about tournament interest, I'm just going to do it here:

WKU is planning to host a High School tournament this fall. It will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 16-24 teams (more if we get the staffers) and will be on pyramidal questions. Whether we use NAQT, HSAPQ, or mirror a housewrite somewhere else will be something we decide at a later date. We'll probably have a format of round robin pools in the morning with rebracketing into pools in the afternoon, similar to what has been done at DAFT and KY NAQT this season. I was hoping to have this tourney sometime in November or December, or maybe in late September. We're open to having it anytime, although I'd like to avoid hosting a tourney on the same day that WKU hosts a football game.

So, who's interested? And any input on the tournament is also welcome.

Grayson will send 3 teams to WKU tournament, as you guys will probably be staffing ours.
I would like to see it use NAQT to be honest, because we will have ours, Danville, and Dunbar with HSAPQ (maybe).

Just to put this out there:

I personally want to run the tournament as a mirror of something else, possibly something like Harvard Fall Tournament. However, that is just my personal opinion and doesn't neccessarily reflect the decision that will be made.

grayson77 wrote:Grayson will send 3 teams to WKU tournament, as you guys will probably be staffing ours.
I would like to see it use NAQT to be honest, because we will have ours, Danville, and Dunbar with HSAPQ (maybe).

We'll decide at some point over the summer whether we'll use HSAPQ or NAQT. It will depend on what NAQT sets we'll already be playing elsewhere. Also, U of L's Fall tournament this year used NAQT.

I actually would like to see a mirror of Harvard Fall.

I've been told that KAAC is considering changing their questions a lot next year.
Some people have even mentioned actual quizbowl formats for Governor's Cup.
Does anyone know if this is true?

grayson77 wrote:Some people have even mentioned actual quizbowl formats for Governor's Cup.
Does anyone know if this is true?

Someone mentioned transitioning into multi-part bonuses next year. It kinda sucked at state to have to listen to a 40 second bonus.

In the next couple days (maybe even tonight), I hope to set a tentative date for WKU to host our tournament this fall. Question-wise, we are considering either using an NAQT set or mirroring another tournament. That decision will largely depend on what date we choose. I would love to have input from teams about which date they'd like to see. The 4 dates I'm looking at the closest right now are:

September 25 (probably best date for WKU, would likely use an NAQT set if the tourney is held on this date)
October 16 (PSAT date, football game at WKU will cause severe parking issues)
October 23 (ACT date)
November 13 (good date for WKU, but JV Challenge is on this day. We'd likely request to mirror Harvard Fall Tournament if we use this date)

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Grayson can bring 3 teams on September 25, any other date would cut us down to 1.

You're in luck Scott, because WKU decided that September 25th was by far the best date for us. This means that we'll probably be using either an NAQT or HSAPQ set. I'm open to any other suggestions from the community as well.

To help stimulate some discussion, here's the list of KY teams attending nationals:

At HSNCT:

Adair County
Danville
Dunbar A
Dunbar B
Grayson County
Manual
Russell
Simon Kenton

At NSC:

Danville
Dunbar A
Dunbar B
Johnson Central (which the PACE website amusingly lists as being located in Pikeville)
Manual A
Manual B
Manual C
Simon Kenton

Hilltopper22 wrote:At NSC:

Johnson Central (which the PACE website amusingly lists as being located in Pikeville)

I don't see that anywhere

Sorry about the mistake, Johnson Central people! I've fixed it to say Paintsville.

I am glad to see Johnson Central going to a real nationals this year.
Hopefully they will start getting into quizbowl more.

As for us...
I am hoping that we make it to the second day.

grayson77 wrote:I am glad to see Johnson Central going to a real nationals this year.
Hopefully they will start getting into quizbowl more.

As for us...
I am hoping that we make it to the second day.

Everyone makes it to the second day. Though you do need to be in the top 16 to still be in contention for the championship.

The Gambler, the Nun, and the Radio wrote:

grayson77 wrote:I am glad to see Johnson Central going to a real nationals this year.
Hopefully they will start getting into quizbowl more.

As for us...
I am hoping that we make it to the second day.

Everyone makes it to the second day. Though you do need to be in the top 16 to still be in contention for the championship.

This is definitely the thing i will be missing the most about NSC this year, with us not being able to attend. Oh, and, like, the better questions and stuff.

I know, but we are going to HSNCT this year, so second day is not guaranteed.
Next year I am pretty sure we are going to go to both nationals.