Illinois '09-'10

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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by David Riley » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:03 pm

Davey und Goliath vill be usingk three part bonuses.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Jane Fairfax » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:04 pm

Shcool wrote:The point values at Kickoffs will be discussed at the Steering Committee Meeting in August. My guess is that we will go with the standard NAQT system except for not subtracting points for negs.
So this includes powers?
David Riley wrote:Davey und Goliath vill be usingk three part bonuses.
This is on an NAQT IS-A set, right?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Deviant Insider » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:19 pm

Jane Fairfax wrote:So this includes powers?
Probably. Ask again in six weeks if you want a straight answer.

EDIT: Also, I should have included Masonics before in my list of changing tournaments.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by David Riley » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:39 am

D & G: Yes, currently I am planning to use an NAQT-A set.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by dtaylor4 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:08 am

We got the Fall Novice bid for this area, in case are teams/players from the area that lurk. I will be running this as well as Earlybird, for which the announcement has been made. Check it for an update.

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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by David Riley » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:43 am

When you say this area. is that all of Illinoiks, or just central Illinlois?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by dtaylor4 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:04 pm

David Riley wrote:When you say this area. is that all of Illinoiks, or just central Illinlois?
Central/Southern. Bettendorf is also using the set, and there will be a Chicago area mirror.

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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by jonah » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:08 pm

I just wanted to point out that what's going on right now in the college section with the VETO discussion has many similarities to the push for good quizbowl in Illinois and the challenges it has faced for the last decade. Because a bunch of people who read this section probably don't follow the college sections, let me offer a bit of summary of what has led up to the thread I linked to. If I get anything wrong in the following, please let me know.

VETO is a summer open in Vancouver (and mirrored elsewhere in Canada). From its inception through last year, it was bad quizbowl in many senses. It had a high proportion of trash, many multimedia questions (not just audio and video; teams were encouraged to include activities for all five senses in their packets, and once a bonus simply required that teams pick up pieces of candy with chopsticks), some unfair rules, and so on. There was also a large proportion of the distribution dedicated to Canadian content, reminiscent of the Illinois-centric categories found in the IHSA series. Questions ranged from one-liners to sixteen-liners, often with no sense of pyramidality (even in the sixteen-liners!).

This year, noted college player and editor Jerry Vinokurov offered to edit packets submitted to him by a certain date. He planned to get rid of inappropriate multimedia questions, eliminate excessive trash, get rid of other generally stupid questions, bring length to a reasonable level from both directions, and so on; he made these intentions clear. A few other American advocates of good quizbowl offered to join him, making their intentions similarly transparent. Most of the teams attending VETO submitted their packets to him, and he and the others edited them, a process which included having to throw out and replace many, many questions. The intended difficulty level was made clear by both the tournament organizers and editors—I think it was DI SCT.

After VETO, lots of the players were really pissed at the changes made. They complained about too-long questions, too-hard questions (even though it was just the lead-ins they were angry about), American intrusion, concealed intentions, and everything else under the sun. This discussion just started yesterday and is still going on, both in the thread I linked above and elsewhere. (Canada has its own private quizbowl discussion places, naturally.)

I'm hoping that some discussions will come from the VETO affair that we in Illinois can learn from and hopefully find helpful as we continue to try to spread good quizbowl. Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by abnormal abdomen » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:07 pm

jonah wrote: VETO is a summer open in Vancouver (and mirrored elsewhere in Canada). From its inception through last year, it was bad quizbowl in many senses. It had a high proportion of trash, many multimedia questions (not just audio and video; teams were encouraged to include activities for all five senses in their packets, and once a bonus simply required that teams pick up pieces of candy with chopsticks), some unfair rules, and so on. There was also a large proportion of the distribution dedicated to Canadian content, reminiscent of the Illinois-centric categories found in the IHSA series. Questions ranged from one-liners to sixteen-liners, often with no sense of pyramidality (even in the sixteen-liners!).
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by cornfused » Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:57 pm

jonah wrote:Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
Why make us guess? Who?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by jonah » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:10 am

cornfused wrote:
jonah wrote:Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
Why make us guess? Who?
I have two possible candidates but little support for either; I'd rather hear others' ideas.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by mlaird » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:24 am

jonah wrote:
cornfused wrote:
jonah wrote:Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
Why make us guess? Who?
I have two possible candidates but little support for either; I'd rather hear others' ideas.
Or we could just not compare people to other people, (see: Godwin's Law) and maintain a semblance of congeniality to outsiders by not talking about people behind their backs.

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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:46 am

jonah wrote:After VETO, lots of the players were really pissed at the changes made. They complained about too-long questions, too-hard questions (even though it was just the lead-ins they were angry about), American intrusion, concealed intentions, and everything else under the sun.
Y'know, I'm sure plenty of those involved are saying this, but it's just so much easier for me to imagine the Quebecois being the perpetrators of this one (It's OK, I can say that, I'm Canadian)
mlaird wrote:
jonah wrote:
cornfused wrote:
jonah wrote:Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
Why make us guess? Who?
I have two possible candidates but little support for either; I'd rather hear others' ideas.
Or we could just not compare people to other people, (see: Godwin's Law) and maintain a semblance of congeniality to outsiders by not talking about people behind their backs.
...You do know this is the Internet, right?

But in all seriousness, in the long run, it seems like a good thing for Canada, like Illinois, to get on the "good quizbowl" train. It would be great to see championships turn into truly international formats. Wouldn't that be a great direction for things to go: PACE being the USA championship, and NAQT developing a strong international flavor?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by jonah » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:27 am

mlaird wrote:Or we could just not compare people to other people, (see: Godwin's Law) and maintain a semblance of congeniality to outsiders by not talking about people behind their backs.
But we're not necessarily talking about people behind their backs, and if we are, it's not because we're doing it secretively. Maybe the people I have in mind read the boards. Also, this is a public forum, and every significant figure in Illinois scholastic bowl is aware of its existence or has the means (it's been mentioned several times in SchoVisions, which they ought to be reading) to be aware of it. They know quizbowl is discussed here; they know Illinois scholastic bowl is discussed here; they are deliberately excluding themselves if they don't read the boards. Oh, and some of them DO read the boards, albeit without posting; we don't know who-all that readership consists of. Finally, I had been under the impression that comparisons were permissible in this forum, since it's in the name and everything.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:54 am

Wouldn't that be a great direction for things to go: PACE being the USA championship, and NAQT developing a strong international flavor?
I just want to make something clear right now in case any Canadian teams are reading this, but even though none have attended PACE nationals in the past, there seems to me to be absolutely nothing that should make it unreasonable for a Canadian team to qualify for and attend the NSC any differently than some now go to NAQT nationals. I think the idea of someone arbitrarily deciding which nationals are better for international teams is somewhat poor, and hope nobody thinks PACE is actually trying to exclude anyone.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:24 am

Harper v. Canada (Attorney General) wrote:
Wouldn't that be a great direction for things to go: PACE being the USA championship, and NAQT developing a strong international flavor?
I just want to make something clear right now in case any Canadian teams are reading this, but even though none have attended PACE nationals in the past, there seems to me to be absolutely nothing that should make it unreasonable for a Canadian team to qualify for and attend the NSC any differently than some now go to NAQT nationals. I think the idea of someone arbitrarily deciding which nationals are better for international teams is somewhat poor, and hope nobody thinks PACE is actually trying to exclude anyone.
Of course, of course. I didn't mean to imply anything exclusionary about PACE, just that in the past, NAQT has had more of an international flavor. Making every quiz bowl tournament international would be fun, and I think in the long run encourage better question writing, and force us Americans to learn even more about cultures beyond our borders. Sorry if it come off otherwirse :sad:
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:04 pm

Actually, last year, both University of Toronto Schools and Woburn Collegiate Institute qualified for the NSC. I hope that this coming year we'll be able to get a Canadian team!
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Sir Thopas » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:15 pm

Dresden The Moderator wrote:Of course, of course. I didn't mean to imply anything exclusionary about PACE, just that in the past, NAQT has had more of an international flavor.
I would argue that PACE questions are more inclusive to Canadians. NAQT has a nontrivial portion of trash, geography, and current events (although fortunately the days of Senator Bowl have died down a bit) that many quizbowlers even within the US don't care about.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Terrible Shorts Depot » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:03 pm

Sir Thopas wrote:
Dresden The Moderator wrote:Of course, of course. I didn't mean to imply anything exclusionary about PACE, just that in the past, NAQT has had more of an international flavor.
I would argue that PACE questions are more inclusive to Canadians. NAQT has a nontrivial portion of trash, geography, and current events (although fortunately the days of Senator Bowl have died down a bit) that many quizbowlers even within the US don't care about.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:43 pm

Of course, of course. I didn't mean to imply anything exclusionary about PACE, just that in the past, NAQT has had more of an international flavor.
What, praytell, is this "international flavor?"
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by at your pleasure » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:46 pm

I think it's that NAQT has been able to attract one or two more international teams than PACE, although that's probably a side effect of NAQT's greater fame.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Theory Of The Leisure Flask » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:56 pm

Harper v. Canada (Attorney General) wrote:
Of course, of course. I didn't mean to imply anything exclusionary about PACE, just that in the past, NAQT has had more of an international flavor.
What, praytell, is this "international flavor?"
I was under the impression that, at least in the SCT, NAQT always threw in a couple extra questions on Canadian geography or hockey so as to appeal to our friends up north. No idea if this is actually the case, but back during my undergrad days everyone assumed it was.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Important Bird Area » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:43 pm

Verhoeven's Giant Tree Rat wrote:I was under the impression that, at least in the SCT, NAQT always threw in a couple extra questions on Canadian geography or hockey so as to appeal to our friends up north. No idea if this is actually the case, but back during my undergrad days everyone assumed it was.
SCT and ICT presently use the same distribution. To my knowledge this has been true for quite some time.

We don't have a fixed quota of Canadian content, apart from the small amount of Canadian history.

Numbers:

2009 SCT (416/416):
1/1 hockey
2/1 Canadian history
9/9 North American geography

2003 SCT (560/560):
2/2 hockey
2/2 Canadian history
17/17 North American geography

So yes, we've scaled back the hockey and the geography over the years in response to feedback.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by jonah » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:33 am

No.
Last edited by jonah on Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Deviant Insider » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:39 am

Before this sidetrack gets long, let me guess that the last post was a prank not made by Jonah.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by jonah » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:22 am

Blargh; apparently I left myself logged in on Jeff's computer.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by the return of AHAN » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:19 am

awesome.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Geringer » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:07 pm

ITT: Jeff's poor attempt at espionage.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Jane Fairfax » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:39 pm

Okay so lets get back on the discussion this thread was meant for: i.e. ramblings, predics, tourney discussions in October.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by David Riley » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:30 am

Several tournaments have been added, dates changed, etc. I will post a link once things are relatively settled.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Jane Fairfax » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:36 pm

David Riley wrote:Several tournaments have been added
I didn't think there were any more weekends to hand around.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by David Riley » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:06 pm

There aren't per se, but remember we have competing tournaments on the same day in the same region(s) now.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Trevkeeper » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:34 pm

Shcool wrote:Scobol Solo will not have Pop Culture
BUT THAT IS MY LEGACY.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Deviant Insider » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:35 am

Trevkeeper wrote:
Shcool wrote:Scobol Solo will not have Pop Culture
BUT THAT IS MY LEGACY.
This way, nobody can repeat your feats. Years from now, people will ask, "Who was Nick Matchen, and how did he know so damn much about the Disney Channel?"
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:43 am

What's the latest on a solid schedule?

Also, did anything ever become of all the noise with QU regarding Masonics?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Deviant Insider » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:18 am

The most up-to-date schedule is this pdf.

There was no real back-and-forth with the Masons. They announced their changes two or three months ago, and everything will happen like they said it will.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:11 pm

Shcool wrote:The most up-to-date schedule is this pdf.
That's not quite the most up-to-date schedule. I guess most people don't know this, but Saint Viator will be hosting a mirror of the Fall Novice Set on September 26th (only day we could get at the school, sorry) called the Septemberist. It will be a JV tournament. Invites and more info will go out around Labor Day.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by jonah » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:18 pm

It's also missing the Illinois mirror of the Fall Novice set, which is on the same date.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by jonah » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:19 pm

Dresden The Moderator wrote:What's the latest on a solid schedule?
I've been doing my best to keep this accurate. I think it's up-to-date.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:44 pm

jonah wrote:
Dresden The Moderator wrote:What's the latest on a solid schedule?
I've been doing my best to keep this accurate. I think it's up-to-date.
Thanks...I made an announcement in the announcements thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8270

Could you put the link and my email address in your schedule?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:41 pm

Dan, did you ever make any progress on the limitations/wordings/etc. of what you're doing for the Septembrist, since it is after the aforementioned 4th and this thread viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8017 is seemingly dead?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by David Riley » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:04 pm

My apologies, Dan and Donald--I had not yet sent notice of the novice mirror tournaments. Mr. Reinstein has done so and they should appear soon on the IHSSBCA web site and in the next Schlastic Visions.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:31 pm

MoCity02 wrote:Dan, did you ever make any progress on the limitations/wordings/etc. of what you're doing for the Septembrist, since it is after the aforementioned 4th and this thread viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8017 is seemingly dead?
thanks
Yes, I hammered out the limitations/wording/etc. with the Fall Novice People. Check out this thread for more info: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8270
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:51 pm

Does anyone know if Quinn Rosenthal of WWS is coming back this year?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Kanga-Rat Murder Society » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:44 pm

FredMorlan wrote:Does anyone know if Quinn Rosenthal of WWS is coming back this year?
Since nobody answered this, I did a little bit of research. According to this link: http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/v6 ... roster.htm he was a junior last year. Thus, I would guess that he is returning. I do not remember him from last year's team, as Alex and Ashok did the majority of their scoring. However, it does appear that he had a solid HSNCT. WWS is a good team that seems to be getting ignored in the predictions.

On a seperate note, I am curious which teams are going to which tournaments. I expect that we will see the usual suspects (NT, Loyola, Auburn), so I am really curious about other teams. Will Stevenson finally make the jump towards primarily good quizbowl? Will St. Viator continue to go to good tournaments or will they revert back to their old ways? Will Barrington, with their influx of talent, finally bring their Varsity teams to good events? Was anybody able to convince people at ACE Camp to explore good quizbowl? I understand that school has not started and many teams will not have these answers, but I will ask for them anyways.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by dtaylor4 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:49 pm

BG MSL Champs wrote:On a seperate note, I am curious which teams are going to which tournaments. I expect that we will see the usual suspects (NT, Loyola, Auburn), so I am really curious about other teams. Will Stevenson finally make the jump towards primarily good quizbowl? Will St. Viator continue to go to good tournaments or will they revert back to their old ways? Will Barrington, with their influx of talent, finally bring their Varsity teams to good events? Was anybody able to convince people at ACE Camp to explore good quizbowl? I understand that school has not started and many teams will not have these answers, but I will ask for them anyways.
Dan-Don will not be at Earlybird, so whether St. Viator comes down or not is up in the air. I know Dan-Don wants to play as much good quizbowl as he can, and I hope that he can convince the young'uns to put in work as well.

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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:32 pm

dtaylor4 wrote:
BG MSL Champs wrote:Will St. Viator continue to go to good tournaments or will they revert back to their old ways?
Dan-Don will not be at Earlybird, so whether St. Viator comes down or not is up in the air. I know Dan-Don wants to play as much good quizbowl as he can, and I hope that he can convince the young'uns to put in work as well.
The SAT IIs are preventing me from going to Earlybird. Otherwise, I hope to continue going to good tourneys. It remains to be seen whether or not I can convince our coaches to take us to good tournaments. At the very least, I will enter (with some teammates hopefully) most good tournaments under a name like "Arlington Heights Quizbowl Club" (credit goes to Jonah for the name) since most good TDs won't have a problem with that.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Jane Fairfax » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:24 pm

I hope more teams start coming to good quizbowl events. I know that teams like Richmond Burton went to Loyburn last year and they were pretty happy with the tournament, at least from what I heard their coach saying. Huskie Bowl, run on an HSAPQ set, had a good turnout, as did Decemberist and Winnebago, run on NAQT sets, and NTV, on a tough house-written set. I think many teams are certainly up to going to a few good tournaments a year.

If Deveau goes to Ig, then I hope he can convince them to go to good tournaments, because it'd really be a shame not seeing him, a lock for first team all state, at the best level of competition.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by abnormal abdomen » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:03 pm

Jane Fairfax wrote:I hope more teams start coming to good quizbowl events. I know that teams like Richmond Burton went to Loyburn last year and they were pretty happy with the tournament, at least from what I heard their coach saying. Huskie Bowl, run on an HSAPQ set, had a good turnout, as did Decemberist and Winnebago, run on NAQT sets, and NTV, on a tough house-written set. I think many teams are certainly up to going to a few good tournaments a year.

If Deveau goes to Ig, then I hope he can convince them to go to good tournaments, because it'd really be a shame not seeing him, a lock for first team all state, at the best level of competition.
Co-sign.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Jane Fairfax » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:37 pm

Gabriel Luis Neruda wrote:
Jane Fairfax wrote:I hope more teams start coming to good quizbowl events. I know that teams like Richmond Burton went to Loyburn last year and they were pretty happy with the tournament, at least from what I heard their coach saying. Huskie Bowl, run on an HSAPQ set, had a good turnout, as did Decemberist and Winnebago, run on NAQT sets, and NTV, on a tough house-written set. I think many teams are certainly up to going to a few good tournaments a year.

If Deveau goes to Ig, then I hope he can convince them to go to good tournaments, because it'd really be a shame not seeing him, a lock for first team all state, at the best level of competition.
Co-sign.
You should be more original in your comments. LloyBid should be an association of differing but complementary and friendly views.
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