Illinois '09-'10

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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Geringer » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:46 pm

BG MSL Champs wrote:I think this essentialy kills your "Deveau can't beat balanced teams theory".
I said balanced teams like Auburn and Loyola, who were, last year, both considerably out of our league. If the best players did well at the best tournaments, you would have seen Stow-Monroe vs Daichi's team in the finals, not Wilmington vs. Dorman/State College.
BG MSL Champs wrote: Also, the argument that Ben Cohen could not pull off the feat is not only flawed, but entirely incorrect. It is flawed because last year's scene in Illinois was much stronger than this year's. It is incorrect because Ben Cohen did beat these teams more than a couple times.
I really think that comparatively, this year's Illinois field is just as strong. While this year's best team is not quite as good as last year's best team, I also don't think you can put Andrew on the same level as Ben or Siva...yet.
BG MSL Champs wrote:Also, St. Ig had a very solid F/S team.
Questions aside, if 9-7 in league play is "solid," then Viator's F/S team were veritable gods.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:52 pm

If the best players did well at the best tournaments, you would have seen Stow-Monroe vs Daichi's team in the finals, not Wilmington vs. Dorman/State College.
But there's a good argument that Henry Gorman may have in fact been the best player in the country last year. Similarly, Shantanu Jha was without much question the best player in 2008, and he won at PACE (and there's other historical stuff like Chris Ray and Jacob Mikanowski). Whether your scoring is balanced or concentrated doesn't matter anywhere near as much as whether or not your team knows the most stuff. It just happens that it is easier for a team that know a lot of stuff to have spread the learning around, but I think the results bear out that the best players may be able to win national tournaments.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Kanga-Rat Murder Society » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:25 pm

Macho Man Randy Savage wrote: I really think that comparatively, this year's Illinois field is just as strong.
:w-hat:! Siva was a multiple time first team All-State player going in to last year. He had gone undefeated at the morning of New Trier Solo his Junior Year. He was probably the 2nd best player in state in 2007-2008.

Ben Cohen was the # 12 scorer at HSNCT in 2007-2008. He was the leading scorer on one of the Top 6 teams in state, and was one of the best 4 players in state.

Carbondale finished in the top 25 at NSC and returned everybody. They were a Top 8 team in Illinois in 2007-2008.

Loyola was a Top 6 team in 2007-2008 that returned most of it's scoring this year.

This year we do not have a single team that made the playoffs at any national that returns the majority of its scoring. Last year, three of the four best teams from the previous year were returning the majority of its scoring. I hope your post was sarcasm that I missed, because I think IL will be lucky to produce one team that is as good as last year's Loyola team (the fourth best team in state).
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote: Questions aside, if 9-7 in league play is "solid," then Viator's F/S team were veritable gods.
Last time I checked, they reached the semifinals at Davey (I am too lazy to look for playoff stats, so I may be wrong). Either way, they put up 257 PPG on an A set, the 5th highest in the tournament. They had 13 powers, which is more than Auburn, Loyola, or Lisle had. Honestly the fact that you are saying a team was bad because they sucked on terrible questions is absurd. Both of our teams beat Loyola at the Fremd tournament (which has similar quality questions to your conference, if I understand correctly). Using your logic you should be criticizing people who are saying Loyola is better than our teams. All the 9-7 record means is that Deveau will not get much help at Masonics.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:26 pm

BG MSL Champs wrote: He also scored 670 points in 9 games at Huskie Bowl. St. Viator put up 875 points in 10 games. He also led his team to a significantly higher bonus conversion. In fact, Maine South beat you 215-200 at this tournament. Deveau scored 50 of his team's 65 points.
Actually, we were playing sans Alex Grabowski (our captain) at Huskie Bowl. His sub, Richard, only put up about 1/4 the points Alex would have, not to mentioned he negged on the last tossup in that match, securing a win for Deveau.

The second--and final--time we played Deveau was at Loyburn. We had our full lineup and won 310-195 with me putting up 60 tossup points.
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote:
BG MSL Champs wrote:Also, St. Ig had a very solid F/S team.
Questions aside, if 9-7 in league play is "solid," then Viator's F/S team were veritable gods.
http://www.doc-ent.com/qbwiki/index.php ... osh.2FSoph
BG MSL Champs wrote:Both of our teams beat Loyola at the Fremd tournament (which has similar quality questions to your conference, if I understand correctly). Using your logic you should be criticizing people who are saying Loyola is better than our teams. All the 9-7 record means is that Deveau will not get much help at Masonics.
Regardless of questions, we both beat Jackless Loyola at Fremd. He was their second-best player last year. It is your logic that is flawed.

In summation, I agree with Jeff's "Deveau-can't-beat-balanced-teams-theory," However, I think he'll best us this because we're not going to be so balanced. Will he be so lucky with really good, really balanced teams like Auburn and Loyola? I don't know. However, while no one has put a name on this theory, I would like to posit the Zach-Blumenfeld-can-beat-balanced-teams theory.

EDIT: got the score wrong twice; added quote-age from Jeff; quote-age from Nick
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Geringer » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:02 pm

BG MSL Champs wrote:
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote: I really think that comparatively, this year's Illinois field is just as strong.
:w-hat:
I used the word comparatively. As in, Deveau is to Cohen what 2009-10 is to 2008-09. This year's field is comparatively not as good, but then again, are you all really telling me that someone in Illinois this year is better than Cohen or Sundaram?
BG MSL Champs wrote:I hope your post was sarcasm that I missed.
I've really tried to be polite in my responses. Saying things like this don't get anything accomplished. At all.
BG MSL Champs wrote:
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote: Questions aside, if 9-7 in league play is "solid," then Viator's F/S team were veritable gods.
Honestly the fact that you are saying a team was bad because they sucked on terrible questions is absurd.
Did you even bother reading my post? I said "questions aside." I could see losing a couple of matches on bad questions, but the questions weren't so bad that a team deserving a 14-2 record could go 9-7.

Honest dude, slow down, read some posts, and pick your arguments.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Kanga-Rat Murder Society » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:28 pm

Macho Man Randy Savage wrote:
BG MSL Champs wrote:
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote: I really think that comparatively, this year's Illinois field is just as strong.
:w-hat:
I used the word comparatively. As in, Deveau is to Cohen what 2009-10 is to 2008-09. This year's field is comparatively not as good, but then again, are you all really telling me that someone in Illinois this year is better than Cohen or Sundaram?
This makes sense. However, the first time you made this statement you used a quote where I compared the overall quality of the field, not Deveau compared to the state. Thus, I thought you were essentially saying that you thought that this years Auburn is as good as last year's Auburn, this year's Stevenson is as good as last year's New Trier etc.
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote:
BG MSL Champs wrote:I hope your post was sarcasm that I missed.
I've really tried to be polite in my responses. Saying things like this don't get anything accomplished. At all.
I hope that my explanation to the your last statement explains this. I was serious about the sarcasm, and not trying to be rude. I found it hard to believe that you thought that this year's Auburn will be better than last year's Auburn. Thus, I was hoping that it was sarcasm. Instead, it turned out to be a miscommunication.
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote:
BG MSL Champs wrote:
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote: Questions aside, if 9-7 in league play is "solid," then Viator's F/S team were veritable gods.
Honestly the fact that you are saying a team was bad because they sucked on terrible questions is absurd.
Did you even bother reading my post? I said "questions aside." I could see losing a couple of matches on bad questions, but the questions weren't so bad that a team deserving a 14-2 record could go 9-7.

Honest dude, slow down, read some posts, and pick your arguments.
A. A team deserving a 16-0 record could go 5-11 with Bryce Avery questions. They are that bad. This year, we almost lost a game because we answered that abominable snowman was the western term for the monster in the Himilayas. Instead, Bryce Avery (and the moderator) insisted that Yeti was the "Western Term". Eventually, we got both coaches to agree to take the question out. If it had been up to the moderator, we would have lost.

B. Latin went 12-4 in your conference. When they played real quizbowl at D&G, they went 2-3 with 179 PPG. St. Ig, on the other hand, went 4-1 with 257 PPG, and 50% more powers. THIS SHOULD BE PROOF THAT ST.IG'S F/S TEAM WAS BETTER THAN A TEAM WITH A 12-4 RECORD. If I am wrong here, I would like to know why.

C. Putting down a team because they struggled on Bryce Avery questions is not respectful.

D. I am picking my arguments. You seem to think you can gauge quizbowl skill by Bryce Avery questions. I disagree. I am insisting that you are wrong. I certainly think this is an argument worth picking.
Dan wrote:Regardless of questions, we both beat Jackless Loyola at Fremd. He was their second-best player last year. It is your logic that is flawed.

In summation, I agree with Jeff's "Deveau-can't-beat-balanced-teams-theory," However, I think he'll best us this because we're not going to be so balanced. Will he be so lucky with really good, really balanced teams like Auburn and Loyola? I don't know. However, while no one has put a name on this theory, I would like to posit the Zach-Blumenfeld-can-beat-balanced-teams theory.

EDIT: got the score wrong twice; added quote-age from Jeff; quote-age from Nick
He beat us and I think that we qualify as a balanced team. At Huskie Bowl, all four of our starters had between 20 and 30 PPG. We were a playoff team at a national tournament. Thus, I believe that I have disproved Jeff's theory.

Also, does your above quote mean that you think that your team was better than Jackless Fremd? I know that Joe Ahmad solo was better than our team, so I am interested in your answer.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by JackGlerum » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:47 pm

Dan and Jeff, you guys are saying stupid things. Backing up arguments with results from Avery and Question Bank events and then saying
Dan-Don wrote:Regardless of questions
and
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote:Questions aside
is unnecessary.

Furthermore, the argument about solo vs. balanced is subjective and pointless. Sometimes the one-man team wins, sometimes the four-man team wins. Quizbowl is a game of individuals. Sure, you can collaborate on bonuses and have a science guy, a lit guy, and a history guy, but you're not putting your collective effort towards buzzing in. One person does that. Like Dees said, he (and me and everyone else who plays quizbowl) loses to both types of teams. Whoever knows more will win, that's it, regardless of the concentration of knowledge spread amongst the teams.

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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by millionwaves » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:55 pm

Everyone calm down here.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:40 pm

Once again, an Illinois thread gets dumb. Some good arguments but a lot of fluff.

Play good quizbowl, dudes... have a good year... be excellent to each other.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Jane Fairfax » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:47 pm

Dr. Isaac Yankem, DDS wrote:Once again, an Illinois thread gets dumb. Some good arguments but a lot of fluff.

Play good quizbowl, dudes... have a good year... be excellent to each other.
Don't worry, Mr. Chrzanowski, we will.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Charley Pride » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:06 pm

JackGlerum wrote:Intelligent things.

I think anyone who thinks there's a rule as to whether juggernaut player beats balanced team is silly. In addition, I think we need to define the term "balanced". You can't hope to apply the term "balanced" to players on a team who are equally average if you're trying to make a case for how good they were. Ignoring the fact that balanced teams can be horrible to amazing and instead lumping them together is ignorant.

In a sense, the definition of a balanced team doesn't necessarily have to mean there's equal scoring. Siva was the vast majority of our scoring, but the important thing to realize is that when Siva was a step behind on a tossup, Michael, and a less so I, picked up the points. So for a truly balanced team, you don't necessarily need equal scoring or even equal talent. It's more a matter of having depth within the lineup on a given question, and that's what we had last year. The difference between a team without this trait and a team with it is the difference between a team that beats great teams and a team that beats great teams consistently.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:06 pm

JackGlerum wrote:Dan and Jeff, you guys are saying stupid things. Backing up arguments with results from Avery and Question Bank events and then saying
Dan-Don wrote:Regardless of questions
and
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote:Questions aside
is unnecessary.
Actually, Jack, when we look at my use of the phrase "Regardless of questions," in context:
Dan-Don wrote:
BG MSL Champs wrote:Both of our teams beat Loyola at the Fremd tournament (which has similar quality questions to your conference, if I understand correctly). Using your logic you should be criticizing people who are saying Loyola is better than our teams. All the 9-7 record means is that Deveau will not get much help at Masonics.
Regardless of questions, we both beat Jackless Loyola at Fremd. He was their second-best player last year. It is your logic that is flawed
we can see that I was responding to Nick's accusation of a flaw in our logic. I used the phrase to prove to Nick that it was not necessarily an issue of question quality in the case of our beating Loyola, as he was making the automatic assumption that it was.

I fail to see how I am saying stupid things when everything in my earlier post was a statement of fact that can't be refuted.
JackGlerum wrote:Furthermore, the argument about solo vs. balanced is subjective and pointless.
Are you suggesting we started this argument? I say you take a look back a few posts--you'll notice Jeff merely said:
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote:Andrew Deveau is scary good, but I don't think one player will consistently beat more balanced teams."
while it was Dees and and Bergeron who attacked what was a sensible statement of opinion, and caused a subsequent debate. (Which is what these forums are for, no?) We didn't start throwing around sarcasm and terms like "stupid." Tryg's right...this is a fine debate, but the people that reacted so violently to our opinions need to calm down.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Geringer » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:10 pm

Image
Peace offering to the people I love so much but agree with so seldom.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:15 pm

Macho Man Randy Savage wrote:Image
Peace offering to the people I love so much but agree with so seldom.

I'll second this peace offering, but if IHSA Scholastic Bowl has taught me one thing, it's Grammar, Usage, & Mechanics:
Macho Man Randy Savage wrote: Peace offering to the people I love so much but agree with so seldomly.
EDIT: Ignore my attempt at humor...I just made up an adverb.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Kanga-Rat Murder Society » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:33 pm

Dan-Don wrote: while it was Dees and and Bergeron who attacked what was a sensible statement of opinion, and caused a subsequent debate. (Which is what these forums are for, no?) We didn't start throwing around sarcasm and terms like "stupid." Tryg's right...this is a fine debate, but the people that reacted so violently to our opinions need to calm down.
The only things that I "attacked" were

A. The idea that Andrew Deveau cannot beat a balanced team. My way of "attacking" this was to say that he beat our team and your team, both of whom are balanced (even if you are missing a player, you were still fairly balanced). Note that I never said that he was better than St. Viator. Ever.

B. Jeff's assertation that St. Ignatius had a much worse F/S team than Viator, and that this could be proven by conference results. I "attacked" this by showing that St. Ignatius outperformed a team from their conference on good questions, even though that team did much better in your conference.

C. Jeff's statement (which i misunderstood to mean) that this year's field will be as good as last year's. My way of "attacking" this was to compare how many top players returned from the previous year.

If you want a discussion, fine. Here is a question:

1. Do you believe that Bryce Avery questions and Question Bank questions accurately gauge quizbowl knowledge?

Jeff seems to think so. I do not. I tried to give evidence, and I left the door open to be proven wrong. Instead, you criticized a team that we would love to become active, and will not even defend your criticism or apologize.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:48 pm

BG MSL Champs wrote:Also, does your above quote mean that you think that your team was better than Jackless Fremd? I know that Joe Ahmad solo was better than our team, so I am interested in your answer.
The sad truth of it is our 5-man IHSA lineup from last year might have had a really good chance at beating Joe Ahmad solo.We would need to have a really good computation game and pick up some bs IHSA tossups like "box step" and "white line." And, don't tell me that PACE and NAQT results are more legit--as you'll remember, Jeff's initial post was in response to Jonah's placing St. Ig. at the top of his IHSA Class AA post.
Oliver Ellsworth wrote:I think anyone who thinks there's a rule as to whether juggernaut player beats balanced team is silly. In addition, I think we need to define the term "balanced". You can't hope to apply the term "balanced" to players on a team who are equally average if you're trying to make a case for how good they were. Ignoring the fact that balanced teams can be horrible to amazing and instead lumping them together is ignorant.
This is the most intelligent thing I heard today, and it certainly puts both sides of the argument in their place. But, if we insist on continuing:
BG MSL Champs wrote:A. The idea that Andrew Deveau cannot beat a balanced team. My way of "attacking" this was to say that he beat our team and your team, both of whom are balanced (even if you are missing a player, you were still fairly balanced). Note that I never said that he was better than St. Viator. Ever.
But, you used evidence re: Viator's performance at Huskie bowl w/o bothering to check if we were at full strength. Similarly,

BG MSL Champs wrote:B. Jeff's assertation that St. Ignatius had a much worse F/S team than Viator, and that this could be proven by conference results. I "attacked" this by showing that St. Ignatius outperformed a team from their conference on good questions, even though that team did much better in your conference.
you probably didn't check and see if Latin was at full strength here.
BG MSL Champs wrote: 1. Do you believe that Bryce Avery questions and Question Bank questions accurately gauge quizbowl knowledge?

Jeff seems to think so. I do not.
If you don't think Avery questions accurately gauge quizbowl knowledge, then why is your username what it is? Why celebrate a league championship on bad questions? You don't see Jeff and me masquerading as "SVHS NMSBL Champs." EDIT: Incidentally, I don't think such questions accurately gauge quizbowl knowledge all the time, but they more or less weed out the best team. This is true of the IHSA State Champ. as well--does it represent the 8 best teams? No. Does the best team in the state usually win? Yes.
BG MSL Champs wrote: Instead, you criticized a team that we would love to become active, and will not even defend your criticism or apologize.
Were we critical? Or did we just point out some facts?

In any event, I'm done with this. What else is there to be discussed before the season starts?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by David Riley » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:56 pm

Well, there are still a couple of dates open on the calendar; anyone want to host a tournament?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Charley Pride » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:10 pm

Dan-Don wrote: I'm gonna treat the mess out of Nick by referencing his username alone.
:shock: My parents don't let me see this kind of carnage. Next time you say something like this, put an "NSFW" label...He didn't deserve that, Dannyboy, he didn't.

I basically wrote: Ignoring things is ignorant.
One for the books...
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:15 pm

Oliver Ellsworth wrote:
Dan-Don wrote: I'm gonna treat the mess out of Nick by referencing his username alone.
:shock: My parents don't let me see this kind of carnage. Next time you say something like this, put an "NSFW" label...He didn't deserve that, Dannyboy, he didn't.
Oh...did you not see the "Viewier discretion is advised. Please confirm that you are 18 years old by typing your birthday below" box?

Oliver Ellsworth wrote:
I basically wrote: Ignoring things is ignorant.
One for the books...
Well...that just goes to show the idiocy of the debate.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Kanga-Rat Murder Society » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:35 pm

Dan wrote:What was up with the distribution? As a Lit/Fine Arts player, I was angered that there were no discernible rules for distribution or categorization. One round had 3 lit toss-ups, another had none. The rest just had one.

Fine arts was absent as toss-up category. Save for of course, the toss-up about rock 'n' roll-er Chuck Berry that was, for reasons unbeknownst to me, categorized as arts. Sports, mythology, economics, and entertainment/pop culture are not their own categories. Please categorize them appropriately. As a result, there was waaaaayy too much computational math.

Also, the lead-in clues on many of the toss-ups were just plain bad. For example one toss-up was: "An island off the coast of Indonesia is home to many types of (some species of) snake. But it is more famous for a certain lizard—" At this point, are we looking Komodo or Komodo dragon? (Thankfully I buzzed and said Komodo and was prompted for Dragon.) Another: "Spell the 'd' word that describes Aldous Huxley's—" I buzz in with dystopian, given that the question says describes and is clearly asking for an adjective. The answer was dystopia. Another toss-up: "Sirius and XM announced plans to join forces as one, preeminent satellite radio provider. This was approved by—" At this point there could be a number of answers: merger, stockholders, etc. So the rest of the question: "—the FCC. What does the FCC stand for?" Absolutely ridiculous.

Far too many bonuses were uncategorized "all the answers being with this letter" bonuses. Far too many toss-ups featured "begins with this letter" or "rhymes with" giveaway clues, resulting in buzzer races. The introduction to one toss-up in the morning even read, "OK teams, time for a buzzer beater question."

Finally, every bonus throughout the day was a four-parter. On the last bonus of the tournament, we have control, down by ten. What does the question writer do? Throws in a ridiculous three-part physics problem about an ice fisher trapped in a cabin slowly sliding around the ice.
I just thought I would remind you of what you insist produces the correct winner.
Username
I made BG MSL Champs when I first joined the forum. The reason I joined was essentially because I was bored, and I decided that it would be fun to post about how good we were (which I did my first few posts). As I read the forums more and more, I realized how interesting they were. I started contributing actively to this thread, which I hope to do every post. I tried to change my user name in the "Name Change Please" thread, but inexplicably that thread went dead seemingly the instant I posted to change my name. I took it as a sign and have stuck with BG MSL Champs.

I will now ask the mods to change my name to a more meaningful one. That name is Sarconeely. It holds particular importance to me, because that answer was accepted as the name of the President of Georgia. We protested. The moderator insisted that it was "close enough". Hopefully, my new name will serve as a reminder to how little the results of conference play matters.

Note: I had a monster post, but it apparently was too big, because it said I had too many pixels or something like that. I don't know how Dwight Wynne does it.

Dan wrote:
BG MSL Champs wrote:A. The idea that Andrew Deveau cannot beat a balanced team. My way of "attacking" this was to say that he beat our team and your team, both of whom are balanced (even if you are missing a player, you were still fairly balanced). Note that I never said that he was better than St. Viator. Ever.
But, you used evidence re: Viator's performance at Huskie bowl w/o bothering to check if we were at full strength.
ONCE AGAIN, I NEVER, EVER SAID THAT MAINE SOUTH WAS BETTER THAN ST. VIATOR. WHAT I SAID WAS THAT ANDREW DEVEAU IS CAPABLE OF BEATING BALANCED TEAMS. AS EVIDENCE, I USED YOUR GAME FROM HUSKIE BOWL. AT HUSKIE BOWL, YOUR TEAM HAD 30, 25, 20, AND 7 PPG. THIS IS BALANCED. THUS, HE CAN BEAT BALANCED TEAMS. I DO NOT GET WHAT THE FACT THAT YOU WERE NOT AT FULL STRENGTH HAS TO DO WITH THIS.

Note: Caps are meant to get Dan to read carefully, not meant to convey anger
Dan-Don wrote:
BG MSL Champs wrote:B. Jeff's assertation that St. Ignatius had a much worse F/S team than Viator, and that this could be proven by conference results. I "attacked" this by showing that St. Ignatius outperformed a team from their conference on good questions, even though that team did much better in your conference.
you probably didn't check and see if Latin was at full strength here.
Now, honestly where could I have checked that? Similarly, I imagine that Jeff did not check to see that St. Ig was playing at full strength. Either way, scoffing at St. Ignatius as he did was totally uncalled for, and he gave no evidence at all relating to acceptable quizbowl. I, at least, tried to do the best that I could.
Dan wrote:Charlie Dees
What did Charlie Dees do that was in any way rude? I could at least understand a tiny bit of anger at me, for the sarcastic comment (which was not meant the way that you interpreted it). He did absolutely nothing.

Edit: Dan, this is not a personal debate. I am trying to make sure that you, the captain of one of the best team's in Illinois, understand that Question Bank and Byrce Avery are wholly unacceptable. I also want to make sure that anybody from Stevenson or Ignatius (my top 2 teams) understands that they should not attend these tournaments. They do not reward knowledge, but rather, as Greg Gauthier would say, ESPN. If this makes me the "smaller man", then fine.
Last edited by Kanga-Rat Murder Society on Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:05 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:42 pm

Nick,
Dan-Don wrote:The sad truth of it is our 5-man IHSA lineup from last year might have had a really good chance at beating Joe Ahmad solo.We would need to have a really good computation game and pick up some bs IHSA tossups like "box step" and "white line." And, don't tell me that PACE and NAQT results are more legit--as you'll remember, Jeff's initial post was in response to Jonah's placing St. Ig. at the top of his IHSA Class AA post.
Just thought I'd remind you I said it was a "sad truth." I don't like it no more than you do.
BG MSL Champs wrote:ONCE AGAIN, I NEVER, EVER SAID THAT MAINE SOUTH WAS BETTER THAN ST. VIATOR. WHAT I SAID WAS THAT ANDREW DEVEAU IS CAPABLE OF BEATING BALANCED TEAMS. AS EVIDENCE, I USED YOUR GAME FROM HUSKIE BOWL. AT HUSKIE BOWL, YOUR TEAM HAD 30, 25, 20, AND 7 PPG. THIS IS BALANCED. THUS, HE CAN BEAT BALANCED TEAMS. I DO NOT GET WHAT THE FACT THAT YOU WERE NOT AT FULL STRENGTH HAS TO DO WITH THIS.

Note: Caps are meant to get Dan to read carefully, not meant to convey anger
It's not balanced if there's still such a clear weak link. 30/25/20/30 would have been much more balanced (cf. our 310-185 win the following week).
BG MSL Champs wrote:Now, honestly where could I have checked that? Similarly, I imagine that Jeff did not check to see that St. Ig was playing at full strength. Either way, scoffing at St. Ignatius as he did was totally uncalled for, and he gave no evidence at all relating to acceptable quizbowl. I, at least, tried to do the best that I could.
Actually, Jeff might not have "checked" this, but since I played these guys when I was a sophomore and coached our F/S B team against them this year, I know Leo and Jake are their top scorers and usual starters. I don't know about Latin.
BG MSL Champs wrote:Edit: Dan, this is not a personal debate. I am trying to make sure that you, the captain of one of the best team's in Illinois, understand that Question Bank and Byrce Avery are wholly unacceptable. I also want to make sure that anybody from Stevenson or Ignatius (my top 2 teams) understands that they should not attend these tournaments. They do not reward knowledge, but rather, as Greg Gauthier would say, ESPN. If this makes me the "smaller man", then fine.
I'm not captain...unfortunately. But thank you. I hate those questions too. Let's just put this behind us.

(User was banned for two days for this and previous posts for being blatantly wrong ungracefully and continuing to argue after having been warned to stop.)
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Edward Elric » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:27 pm

Can't we all just get along?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by cornfused » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:04 am

Dan-Don wrote:It's not balanced if there's still such a clear weak link. 30/25/20/30 would have been much more balanced
10/10/10/10 would've been even more balanced. The amount of balance doesn't matter, man, it's about scoring. Take a team that has a strong #1 and then several good contributors - say, Siva as a senior or (though it's before your time) the Maine South team of my senior year. You could make those teams a lot more balanced by telling Siva or I to sit out - as a matter of fact, at the IHSA Kickoff that I missed that year, my team's usual #2 and #4 tied in scoring, with the usual #3 closely behind and the usual #5 scoring the gamewinning tossup against Greg G.'s Wheaton North teams. Would that make those teams better? Obviously not.

If anyone disagrees with one of these two trivially obvious statements, let me know. But otherwise, why keep arguing?

A) Andrew Deveau can beat balanced teams.
B) Andrew Deveau can't beat balanced teams that are better at quizbowl than he is.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:41 am

cornfused wrote:
A) Andrew Deveau can beat balanced teams.
B) Andrew Deveau can't beat balanced teams that are better at quizbowl than he is.
Fair enough.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Charley Pride » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:50 am

cornfused wrote:
Dan-Don wrote:It's not balanced if there's still such a clear weak link. 30/25/20/30 would have been much more balanced
10/10/10/10 would've been even more balanced. The amount of balance doesn't matter, man, it's about scoring. Take a team that has a strong #1 and then several good contributors - say, Siva as a senior or (though it's before your time) the Maine South team of my senior year. You could make those teams a lot more balanced by telling Siva or I to sit out - as a matter of fact, at the IHSA Kickoff that I missed that year, my team's usual #2 and #4 tied in scoring, with the usual #3 closely behind and the usual #5 scoring the gamewinning tossup against Greg G.'s Wheaton North teams. Would that make those teams better? Obviously not.

If anyone disagrees with one of these two trivially obvious statements, let me know. But otherwise, why keep arguing?

A) Andrew Deveau can beat balanced teams.
B) Andrew Deveau can't beat balanced teams that are better at quizbowl than he is.
To avoid the risk of appearing rude, I chose not to make this very very obvious truth that was being ignored. Thank you, Greg Peterson, for putting us out of our misery.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by drose4prez » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:12 am

What are the rules regarding IHSA guidelines and college tournaments? If high school teams go to them, would it have to be under aliases or something like that?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Deviant Insider » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:04 am

High school teams can attend college tournaments using their own names. It was done by New Trier, Auburn, and Loyola last year after we checked with the IHSA. (You don't have to check with the IHSA each time, but we checked last year because it was unprecedented.)
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by jonah » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:39 am

And because all college tournaments (that I know of) have four to a team, they don't count toward your 18-date limit.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by David Riley » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:31 pm

jonah wrote:And because all college tournaments (that I know of) have four to a team, they don't count toward your 18-date limit.

Yet....
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:41 pm

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Edward Elric » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:57 pm

On a random side note... Does anyone know if they need moderators for solo? I'd be willing to help out if possible. I'm not sure if you need to complete the moderators test, if so I almost have it finished.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Deviant Insider » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:03 pm

We always need moderators for Solo. Lots and lots and lots of moderators.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Jane Fairfax » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:08 pm

Xanta Claus wrote:We always need moderators for Solo. Lots and lots and lots of moderators.
Have you finished those questions, Mr. Reinstein? What's the distro this year/format for the tourney?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Edward Elric » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Xanta Claus wrote:We always need moderators for Solo. Lots and lots and lots of moderators.
All right well count me in for that. Umm if you have any info for me you can contact me at my email address: cybermichaelp@juno.com
I'll probably be able to travel with Ms. Kidd so i have that covered at least.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Deviant Insider » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:36 pm

Other than Current Events, the questions are written. The category order this year is Interdisciplinary, Current Events, Algebra/Precalculus, Brit Lit, World History, Chem, Music, Geometry/Trig, Nonfiction, World Lit, Geog/Astro/ES, Vocab, Bio, US History, Art/Architecture, Pyramidal Math, Religion/Myth, Physics, US Lit, and Western European History. The last category replaces Pop Culture.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:45 pm

Semi-random Question to all of you people hosting tournaments: Which tournaments are still going to have comp math this year?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Jane Fairfax » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:54 pm

Xanta Claus wrote:Vocab
Oh, yay.
Nolan Winkler wrote:Semi-random Question to all of you people hosting tournaments: Which tournaments are still going to have comp math this year?
NT Solo, Masonics, IHSA State. Whichever tournament hosts ask NAQT to.

The reason I posted was because the Illinois forum post number was at 666, and that's just not lucky.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:05 pm

Jane Fairfax wrote:
The reason I posted was because the Illinois forum post number was at 666, and that's just not lucky.
post 666 being about math comp...I thought the world wasn't supposed to end 'til 2012.


Also @ tourneys with math comp, yeah that's what I thought, but a certain teammate *cough* Marcel *cough* led me to believe otherwise for some reason.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by dtaylor4 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:23 pm

Neither tournament we host will have mathcomp, and my spring singles tournament will not have it either.

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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by rjaguar3 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:27 pm

Wheaton North frosh/soph will have the IHSA distro, with about 2/3 mathcomp TU and 1/3 noncomp TU.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by jonah » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:42 pm

Tournaments certain to have computation: NT Solo, all Kickoff sites, all Turnabout sites, Wheaton North f/s, Masonic, IHSA series

Tournaments that I expect will have computation, but I don't have actual statements from the writers/hosts: Orion, Moline f/s, Kaneland f/s, Rock Island, Peoria River City, PORTA f/s, Sterling, Macomb, Kaneland, Rock Island f/s, Fremd (both varsity and f/s), Winnebago, Springfield (both varsity and f/s), John Logan, Sterling f/s, PORTA Class A, Streator Rotary, Galesburg Rotary, Greenville Comet, Orion f/s, Homewood/Flossmoor

Not sure: Wildcat, Tau Beta Pi at Illinois, NAQT State

Tournaments that I expect will not have computation, but I don't have actual statements from the writers/hosts: Davey & Goliath (f/s), Loyburn

Tournaments that will certainly not have computation: Septemberist (Fall Novice), Fall Novice at Illinois, Earlybird, Ultima, HFT, Decemberist, New Trier Varsity, Huskie Bowl, Auburn f/s (Knights' Challenge)

edit: further information from Zahed and Kristin
Last edited by jonah on Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by dtaylor4 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:54 pm

jonah wrote:Tau Beta Pi at Illinois
If I can lean hard enough on the guy running it, this tournament may use an HSAPQ set.

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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by The Moviegoer » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:20 pm

dtaylor4 wrote:
jonah wrote:Tau Beta Pi at Illinois
If I can lean hard enough on the guy running it, this tournament may use an HSAPQ set.
Mark is actually not running it this year. You can lean through him on that other guy though, I'm sure.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by abnormal abdomen » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:30 am

jonah wrote:
Not sure: Auburn f/s (Knights' Challenge), Wildcat, Tau Beta Pi at Illinois, NAQT State
Apparently, Zahed convinced Ms. Greene to remove math computation from the distro. There is non-comp math, though, I believe.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by jonah » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:34 am

Jacopo Robusti wrote:
jonah wrote:Not sure: Auburn f/s (Knights' Challenge), Wildcat, Tau Beta Pi at Illinois, NAQT State
Apparently, Zahed convinced Ms. Greene to remove math computation from the distro. There is non-comp math, though, I believe.
Thanks. Post updated.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by cornfused » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:12 am

Protip for everyone: come to these tournaments - it's a great way to get better at quizbowl and they're not too hard, so you'll get a lot out of them.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by TheDoctor » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:37 pm

I'd like to provide confirmation that the Decemberist will not have computational math, and to announce that it will not be held at Rock Valley College this year. Brad and I are happily anticipating the arrival of our son in mid- to late-December, so we will not be able to host the tournament. We are currently in negotiations over the location. An announcement by this year's TD will soon be forthcoming in the appropriate thread.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by BGSO » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:40 pm

Event: Mid-Suburban League [09-IL-A]
Host: Hoffman Estates High School, Hoffman Estates, IL
Contact: Brian Harlan


This is exciting. No more AVERY!
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by Dan-Don » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:01 am

The Gobbledy Gooker wrote:Event: Mid-Suburban League [09-IL-A]
Host: Hoffman Estates High School, Hoffman Estates, IL
Contact: Brian Harlan


This is exciting. No more AVERY!
'

We're trying to get the same thing done in the North-Metro league....
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Re: Illinois '09-'10

Post by cornfused » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:25 am

TheDoctor wrote:Brad and I are happily anticipating the arrival of our son in mid- to late-December
Congratu-freaking-lations, Kristin - that blows the no-Bryce Avery announcement out of the water. Here's hoping that the Decembrist lands in a certain somewhere, though...
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