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New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:52 pm
by Deviant Insider
Info here. Entry Form here.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:44 am
by Deviant Insider
We are now almost full. I am holding the following spaces: Auburn (12), Bolingbrook (1), Buffalo Grove (5), Carbondale (7), Crete Monee (2), Fenton (6), Fremd (3), Homewood-Flossmoor (3), IMSA (4), Latin (13), Leyden (5), Libertyville (2), Lincoln-Way North (3), Lisle (5), Loyola (10), Macomb (1), Maine East (4), Maine South (4), Moline (1), Naperville Central (3), Niles North (2), OPRF (4), Saint Charles East (2), Saint Ignatius (5), Stevenson (4), Wheaton Academy (7), Wheaton North (5), Wheaton Warrenville South (5).

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:48 pm
by Deviant Insider
This tournament is now full. The list above is not finalized--there will be a few more additions based on entries received today--but I have a hard cap at 128 which has been hit.

I could still use a few more moderators, but I'm getting close to my goal.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:06 pm
by Deviant Insider
The list above is now current and totals 128. Any cancellations will go to New Trier students.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:10 pm
by Deviant Insider
To accommodate the fact that there certainly will be more students than spaces, there will be an extra room or two for students to just play for fun.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:06 pm
by jonah
Shcool wrote:To accommodate the fact that there certainly will be more students than spaces, there will be an extra room or two for students to just play for fun.
I call not reading that room.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:44 pm
by Deviant Insider
A match schedule is now up as a Word file. Go here and look for it.

There will be no mirrors. Posts on individual questions during the tournament can be made a half hour after the question is used. Comments on the Championship can be made live. If a Replacement question is used, however, don't comment on it until after the tournament is over.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:51 pm
by indiaisasubcontinent7
jonah wrote:
Shcool wrote:To accommodate the fact that there certainly will be more students than spaces, there will be an extra room or two for students to just play for fun.
I call not reading that room.
I call the same thing.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:05 pm
by Deviant Insider
The moderating schedule is already made. Jonah and Anant are in fact reading regular matches the whole day, as is the entire NU contingency.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:01 pm
by indiaisasubcontinent7
Shcool wrote:The moderating schedule is already made. Jonah and Anant are in fact reading regular matches the whole day, as is the entire NU contingency.
From the NU contingency, a heartfelt thanks.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:35 am
by JackGlerum
soooooooooooooooo

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:37 pm
by Deviant Insider
Morning results are here. The next update will probably be at the end, between 5:00 and 5:30.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:28 pm
by mlaird
Still undefeated after 11 rounds: Christian Kreb (LA), Kevin Malis (Stev).
One loss: steve server, Greg d., Isa d, zach b, Lloyd, Ben carbury, deveau, Jeremiah, Ben ch., Quinn r (some of these might have two losses).

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:45 pm
by mlaird
Deveau def. Monk to go to championship. More results forthcoming when Andrew comes back with a report.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:09 pm
by JackGlerum
mlaird wrote:Still undefeated after 11 rounds: Christian Kreb (LA), Kevin Malis (Stev).
One loss: steve server, Greg d., Isa d, zach b, Lloyd, Ben carbury, deveau, Jeremiah, Ben ch., Quinn r (some of these might have two losses).
!

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:17 pm
by mlaird
Malis (morning champ), kreb, deveau, sy, server, Greg d., Isa d., Jeremiah (desperation shot champ)

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:27 pm
by Deviant Insider
1. Lloyd Sy
2. Andrew Deveau
3. Kevin Malis
4. Steve Server

Detailed results will be posted in a few days. The questions are posted.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:37 pm
by Boeing X-20, Please!
mlaird wrote:Malis (morning champ), kreb, deveau, sy, server, Greg d., Isa d., Ben Carbery, Jeremiah (desperation shot champ)
Fixed.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:24 pm
by Dan-Don
All interested parties should read my high-larious play-by-play. It was typed hastily...forgive the many errors.

Starting the Championship round of the 2009 NT Scobol Solo

Reinstein explains the rules

60 questions (Kevin Malis—the morning champ.—sits out for 20).

First tu is interdisc—Jeremiah sure knows a lot about common link ants!!

Current events, Steve is strong on Alan Grayson

Math Comp.  NUMBERWANG!!!! Deveau, of course

Brit lit—Lloyd or Greg? Lloyd!

World Hist- Ben cArbury has a good Tokugawa buzz

Chemistry—Steve negs. Lloyd comes in immediately. Lloyd got SCIENCE!!!!

Lloyd gets some music.

More math comp  Deveau is struggling…..36 seconds left….10 seconds….goes dead (obnoxious noise).

Non-Fic: Greg gets Hume…a little late (his works sure sound a lot like Locke’s works)

World Lit: Lloyd gets Allende

SCIENCE! Deveau gets neutron stars.

Vocabulary  (“this 10 letter word….begins with H”) goes dead (obnoxious noise). Some guy in the audience knows it apparently.

SCIENCE! Lloyd gets something I can’t spell.

USH—Carbury negs Giuliani. Deveau gets Bork.

Architecture—“these things are on top of columns” entabletures go dead

Non-Comp Math  It’s common link  “rank” goes dead

Religion/Myth: Jeremiah gets Psyche

Comp. Physics: We’re finding the speed of a rolling hoop. 60 seconds….30 seconds….DEVEAU WITH 10 SECONDS LEFT (almost screws up the unit)

US Lit: Lloyd can Go Tell it On the Mountain!
W. European Hist: Greg negs with Marat. Lloyd wins the buzzer race on D’antone?

-----------20 QUESTIONS----

Kevin comes in

Kevin: 10 Christian: 3 Ben :3 lloyd: 10 Steve: 3 Greg: 3 Andrew: 7 Isa: 3 Jeremiah: 5

21. Common link: Ben knows a lot about the different spellings of Lorenz!

22. Current Events: Steve comes in with Bob McDonald. Nolan says Steve’s voice is sexy.

23. Algebra comp. 60 seconds….30 seconds….Brad Fischer knows it!....Deveau with 3 seconds left!!!

24. BritLit: Lloyd is struggling, but has it….Kevin wins the buzzer race Mill on the Floss<I’ve never heard of it?>

25. History: Lloyd has Assyria on the giveaway

26. Chemistry: Biography clues…Steve gets Nernst on the buzzer race

27. Music: Infernal Dance….Prince Ivan….Stravinsky…it’s not Petrushka or Rite of Spring…Andrew wins the buzzer race.

28. Geometry Comp. 60 seconds….Brad Fischer can’t even do this one (incidentally, he’s organizing our $5 bets on the outcome of this match)…..10 seconds….goes dead…someone from Stevenson had it…he or she gets a hi-5 from the J! champion

29. Psych…he discussed birth order…Lloyd with Adler

30. World Lit: Lloyd is struggling but comes up with Pierre Corneille

31. Earth Science (it’s not glaciers!!)….”blahblahcleavageblahblah”’ (hehe) Greg tries feldspar…he;s right!

32. Vocab : Andrew on constructivism

33. Bio: giberellic acids for Jeremiah

34. USH: Steve’s getting ready…I think he might have this….Lloyd is looking at the ceiling…Steves gets James G. Blaine!

35. Art: Lloyd gets Masaccio

36. Comp. math…everyone’s just waiting for the giveaway….Deveau negs…Christian is stumbling over his answer, he negs….everyone else is just sitting waiting for the clock to wind down….and it does

37. Religion/Myth: It’s a common link term….Isa is on the board with Atman (sorry State College)

38. Physics? Maybe…idk….Deveau gets it anyways.

39. US Lit: Greg negs Bald Soprano (not US), Lloyd comes in immetidately with Long Day’s journey

40. West Eur Hist: Deveau gets it, whatever it was LaMange

Kevin: 11 Chrsistian: 2 Ben: 4 Lloyd: 15 Steve: 6 Greg: 3 Andrew: 11 Isa: 4 Jeremiah: 6

Steve and Jeremiah will play sudden death to advance. It’s a British scientist….they both look puzzled…goes dead (it was Henry Mosely)

This is history….they both look like they know it….FTP…goes dead Eugene of Savoy

Comp. math will decide who moves on…Brad Fischer knows its 3/2….30 seconds….10 seconds….neither of them know it though…Brad was wrong (it’s root 2)

Going on to music…Jeremiah is getting ready to buzz….paired with Fireworks…Handel…!!!!!....Water Music

Tiebreaker 5….it’s a company (so current events?)…Steve looks good….he buzzes….gets it with Ford!


The final 4 is Mark, Lloyd, Steve, and Deveau.

41. interdisc. Lloyd sure knows a lot about tings named after snakes!

42. Current Events…Can Steve’s current events prowess prevail? Andrew gets Honduras!
(I have $5 on Andrew, btw)

43. Algebra comp.: Andrew struggles…pulls out 2

44. BritLit: gotta be Lloyd…and it is.

45. Steve first-lines Han dynasty

46. SCIENCE! About dynamite….no one has it….Steve pulls out nitroglycerin, but Reinstein has glycerin…he won’t take it
47. Music: everyone is contemplating….Andrew gets trill…He trails Lloyd by 4.

48. Comp. geometry (or maybe trig? Idk…) longest 60 seconds ever…but Andrew’s working on it…c’mon, I want my $5….get pulls out 24/25

49. Political Non-Fic: Kevin makes an appearance from the dark dark corner (and he was morning champ….)

50. World Lit: it’s a Greek poet…Andrew gets Hesiod.

Kevin: 10 Lloyd: 17 Steve: 6 Andrew: 15

Lloyd and Andrew advance. Steve goes the wrong way off the stage. Thanks for the reppin’ the class of 2010, man. Nolan thinks my presence in this tourney would have guaranteed a win for Deveau.

51. Geography: Lloyd gets Chad…that kid knows everything.

52. Vocab, again…Andrew gets hegemony

53. bio…Deveau negs glycogen, I think….Lloyd has no clue…I guess he knows everything but SCIENCE! (glucagon)

54. USH: “These laws…” Andrew has Alien and Sedition Acts

55. Art: it’s RIVERA goddamnit!!! Lloyd gets it way late

19-16, Lloyd

56. Last comp. math: it’s common link….Andrew sure knows a lot about 120.

57. R&M: uh-oh…Jonah’s score is wrong, but the projector is right. Reinstein: “It’s Jonah’s fault!” (What is jonah doing anyways)…Andrew has Sleipnir (Nolan “first-lined that shit”….)

58. Deveau on Corriolis effect

59. US Lit: Lloyd is getting ready…Hollow Men

20-19, Lloyd

60. USH: Andrew negs William Wallace…Robert the Bruce

Lloyd wins, 20-18.

Congrats, Lloyd. Now my bet with Nolan/Laird/Brad is fucked. ;) (I only lost 50 cents somehow)

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:32 pm
by JackGlerum
Thatta boy Lloyd, thatta boy.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:37 pm
by David Riley
Thanks and congrats to Mr. Reinstein for running a great tournament, as always.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:55 pm
by Boeing X-20, Please!
I am the true winner of solo, as i go home with $18.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:56 pm
by adeveau
Winners don't confuse Thoreau and Wordsworth.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:59 pm
by Dan-Don
MoCity02 wrote:I am the true winner of solo, as i go home with $18.
What?? You didn't win that much did you??

Anyways, that final match was the single best quizbowl-related spectacle I've ever witnessed. Congratulations to all parties involved. Many thanks to Mr. Reinstein for organizing and writing this huge event, even though I wasn't able to play.

EDIT:
adeveau wrote:Winners don't confuse Thoreau and Wordsworth.
Did you really? They even read the category as U.S. Lit or Brit Lit....

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:59 pm
by Jane Fairfax
adeveau wrote:Winners don't confuse Thoreau and Wordsworth.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:03 pm
by Boeing X-20, Please!
Jane Fairfax wrote:
adeveau wrote:Winners don't confuse Thoreau and Wordsworth.
William Wallace was never a king you [swearword]

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:07 am
by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK
Congrats!

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:32 am
by jonah
Awesome, fun tournament. Thanks to Reinstein for writing a whole lot of questions, which were significantly better than those of previous years. I was pretty pleased with them. Everyone who played, you were awesome. Particular congratulations are obviously due to Messrs. Carbery, Deveau, Domin, Dzuriscko, Kreb, Malis, Monk, and Server; and most especially Lloyd, who was awesome.

Reinstein will post the full spreadsheet of results soon. If there's anyone who absolutely can't wait, email me and I can send you it.

Because I have the data and I figure someone might find it interesting, here is a recap of the championship match with buzz points. It probably makes more sense if you look at the actual questions also.
1, interdisp (ants): Jeremiah buzzes correctly on "less significant".
2, current events (Alan Grayson): Steve buzzes correctly on "health insurance".
3, alg/precalc (intersection of parametrically specified curves): Deveau buzzes correctly after the question is complete.
4, Brit lit (Lovelace): Lloyd buzzes correctly on "unconfined".
5, world hist (Tokugawa shogunate): Ben buzzes correctly on "Western army".
6, chem (carboxyl group): Steve negs at "carbon atom"; Lloyd immediately buzzes with a correct answer.
7, music (Palestrina): Lloyd buzzes at "three weeks".
8, geom/trig (area enclosed by three polar curves): goes dead.
9, nonfiction (Hume): Greg gets it at "An Enquiry Concerning Human--".
10, world lit (Allende): Lloyd buzzes correctly at "sister".
11, geography/astro/earthsci (neutron star): Deveau at "pulsars".
12, vocab (hystersis): goes dead.
13, bio (corpus callosum): Lloyd at "largest bundle of nerve fibers".
14, US history (Bork): Ben negs at "became Attorney General"; Deveau picks it up at "1987".
15, art/architecture (entablature): goes dead.
16, pyramidal math (rank): goes dead.
17, religion/myth (psyche): Jeremiah at "ants".
18, physics computation (rotational mechanics): Deveau after the question is over.
19, US lit (Go Tell It On The Mountain): Lloyd at "his son".
20, western Euro history (Georges Danton): Greg negs at "dictatorial powres"; Lloyd picks it up at "Robespierre".
Now Kevin comes in, tied for the lead with Lloyd at 10. Other scores: Jeremiah 5, Isa 3, Deveau 7, Greg 3, Steve 3, Ben 3, Christian 3.
21, interdisp (Loren[t]z): Ben at "physicist".
22, current events (Bob McDonnell): Steve at "defeated Creigh Deeds".
23, alg/precalc (intersection of two planes in a line): Deveau after the question is over.
24, Brit lit (Mill on the Floss): Kevin at "Maggie Tulliver".
25, world hist (Assyria): Lloyd at "Name this civilization".
26, chem (Nernst): Steve on the last word.
27, music (Firebird): Deveau on the last word (i.e., after "Stravinsky ballet that's not Petrushka or Rite of Spring").
28, geometry/trig (triangle centroid): goes dead.
29, nonfiction (Adler): Lloyd at "birth order in his book".
30, world lit (Corneille): Lloyd at "French playwright".
31, geography/astro/earthsci (feldspar): Greg after the question is over.
32, vocab (deconstructionism): Deveau at "beginning with the letter D".
33, biology (gibberellin): Jeremiah at "along with auxins".
34, US history (James G. Blaine from Maine): Steve at "1884".
35, art/architecture (Masaccio): Lloyd at "money from the mouth".
36, pyramidal math (random algebraic quantity stuff): Deveau negs after the question is over (note that there's still a penalty after the question is over), Christian also negs; the question goes dead.
37, religion/myth (Atman): Isa at "Brahman".
38, physics (dielectric): Deveau at "weaken them".
39, US lit (Long Day's Journey Into Night): Greg negs at "married couple's two sons"; Lloyd picks it up immediately.
40, western Euro history (Falange): Deveau on "Jose Antonio Primo".
Now we eliminate Isa (4), Greg (3), Ben (4), and Christian (2). We must also eliminate either Steve or Jeremiah, who are tied at 6. We read the first five tiebreaker tossups. The first four (Henry Moseley, Prince Eugene, tetrahedron geometry, and Water Music) go dead; then Steve buzzes correctly on "bankruptcy" of the Ford Mo Co tossup. So Steve remains; Jeremiah goes home. Steve's score remains at 6. We return to regular tossups, with Kevin at 11, Deveau at 11, and Lloyd at 15, in addition to the aforementioned Steve.
41, interdisp (snakes): Lloyd at "Columbia".
42, current events (Honduras): Deveau at "Manuel Zelaya".
43, alg/precalc (absolute value graphs): Deveau after the question is over.
44, Brit lit (Robert Graves): Lloyd after the question is over.
45, world history (Han dynasty): Steve at "Red Eyebrows".
46, chem (glycerine): Kevin negs on the last word. Deveau negs. Steve gives "nitroglycerine", which after some discussion is not accepted, so it's a neg.
47, music (trills): Deveau at "rapid alternations".
48, geometry/trig (isosceles triangle trig): Deveau after the question is over.
49, nonfiction (Hannah Arendt): Kevin on "coverage of the trial".
50, world lit (Hesiod): Deveau after the question is over.
We say goodbye to Steve (6) and Kevin (11), leaving Deveau with 15 and Lloyd with 17.
51, geography/astro/earthsci (Chad): Lloyd at "next to the Darfur region of Sudan".
52, vocab (hegemony): Deveau at "gain the support".
53, biology (glucagon): Deveau negs at "Islets of Langerhans"; tossup goes dead.
54, US history (Alien and Sedition Acts): Deveau at "Uniform Rule of Naturalization".
55, art/architecture (Diego Rivera): Lloyd at "Man at the Crossroads".
56, pyramidal math (lots of stuff): Deveau near the end; no idea what clue he had been working on, but it wasn't the last one.
57, religion/myth (Sleipnir): Deveau at "wall that surrounded Asgard".
58, physics (Coriolis effect): Deveau at "ballistics".
59, US lit (The Hollow Men): Lloyd at "Lord's Prayer".
60, western Euro hist (Robert the Bruce): Deveau negs after the question is over; it goes dead.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:43 am
by Dan-Don
Jonah wrote:play-by-play
Mine's better.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:45 am
by jonah
Category high scorers (maximum of 7 per player-category):
Interdisciplinary: 9 with 6 (Ben Carbery [OPRF], DJ Germano [New Trier], Brian Kenny [Ignatius], Tom Kloehn [Latin], Mike Penicnak [Fenton], Lloyd Sy [Auburn], Ben Tannenbaum [Latin], Erik Wang [Naperville Central], Weili Zheng [IMSA])
Current events: 3 with 5 (Mike Penicnak [Fenton], Steven Quirk [Libertyville], Brett Wallace [Buffalo Grove])
Algebra/precalc: 1 with 7 (Alwina Liu [Fremd])
Brit lit: 1 with 6 (Andrew Deveau [Ignatius])
World hist: 1 with 7 (Steve Server [New Trier])
Chem: 3 with 7 (Christian Kreb [Loyola], Sai Parepally [IMSA], Rose Sloan [IMSA])
Music: 2 with 6 (Greg Dzuricsko [Lisle], Ankai Xu [Carbondale])
Geometry/trig: 1 with 6 (Ankai Xu [Carbondale])
Nonfiction: 1 with 7 (Andrew Deveau [Ignatius])
World lit: 1 with 6 (Kevin Malis [Stevenson])
Geography/Earth Sci/Astronomy: 1 with 6 (Zach Blumenfeld [Stevenson])
Vocab: 3 with 5 (Jeremiah Monk [Carbondale], Seth Perlman [Latin], Mrinalini Prasanna [Carbondale])
Biology: 2 with 6 (Ben Chametzky [Carbondale], Mark Savin [Stevenson])
US history: 2 with 6 (Zach Blumenfeld [Stevenson], Tom Kloehn [Latin])
Art/Architecture: 3 with 6 (Andrew Deveau [Ignatius], Christian Kreb [Loyola], Matt Wilbur [Buffalo Grove])
Pyramidal math: 6 with 6 (Kevin Hu [Naperville Central], Nat Monaikul [Lincoln-Way North], Arjun Puranik [Fremd], Dayne Rogers [Auburn], Mark Savin [Stevenson], Akhil Vohra [New Trier])
Religion/Myth: 2 with 6 (Ben Carbery [OPRF], Isa Domin [Niles North])
Physics: 2 with 6 (Andrew Deveau [Ignatius], Julia Wang [Stevenson])
US lit: 1 with 7 (Lloyd Sy [Auburn])
World history: 1 with 6 (Kevin Malis [Stevenson])

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:49 am
by Stephen Colbert
This was really fun to moderate. Everyone was really nice, even though I somehow still get mistaken for a high school student. I wish I could've hung around to watch the championship and meet more people, but we wanted to check out the campuses of Northwestern and Loyola before it got too dark. Thanks to the nice people at Northwestern's bookstore for staying open an extra five minutes so I could buy a totally overpriced $75 hoodie. Also, red light cameras in downtown Chicago suck. Those lights were totally yellow when I entered those intersections. I have the feeling I'm going to open up the mailbox this week to a pile of tickets.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:10 pm
by MLaudermith
My players and I had a great time as well. Coach Reinstein, you put on another outstanding tournament. Congratulations to Lloyd and everyone else who made the finals!

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:30 pm
by JackGlerum
Hello, it's time for my obligatory trip to negative street!

Scobol Solo is a very cool event and a blast to play. It is like no other tournament. It is a model of logistical success. Hell, it was the first tournament I ever played in, three years ago.

Though, I bring up the "identity crisis" criticism because, well, no one else does. Despite some minor distribution changes, the Solo is a relic from the past in many aspects. Even the name! As a state, we have left "scholastic bowl" behind for "quizbowl". Ironically, New Trier has been one of the forerunners for this change, along with the other usual suspects. Stuff like knowledge of the category before the question and strong presence of computational math make it, dare I say, a gimmicky event.

I don't enjoy making such a stark comparison between two rival schools, but this is the same situation that Loyola was in this year with the Ultima. Times have changed, so the tournament changed, despite the strong identity/ties Loyola had with the pre-season Florida format tournament that was around for a decade.

In conclusion, it's time to ditch the current Solo agenda, and write a modern tournament that aims to determine the best player in the state.

Goddammit Bears!,
Jack

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:46 pm
by The King's Flight to the Scots
JackGlerum wrote:Hello, it's time for my obligatory trip to negative street!

Scobol Solo is a very cool event and a blast to play. It is like no other tournament. It is a model of logistical success. Hell, it was the first tournament I ever played in, three years ago.

Though, I bring up the "identity crisis" criticism because, well, no one else does. Despite some minor distribution changes, the Solo is a relic from the past in many aspects. Even the name! As a state, we have left "scholastic bowl" behind for "quizbowl". Ironically, New Trier has been one of the forerunners for this change, along with the other usual suspects. Stuff like knowledge of the category before the question and strong presence of computational math make it, dare I say, a gimmicky event.

I don't enjoy making such a stark comparison between two rival schools, but this is the same situation that Loyola was in this year with the Ultima. Times have changed, so the tournament changed, despite the strong identity/ties Loyola had with the pre-season Florida format tournament that was around for a decade.

In conclusion, it's time to ditch the current Solo agenda, and write a modern tournament that aims to determine the best player in the state.

Goddammit Bears!,
Jack
WARNING: FOREIGNER ENTERING THREAD

Honestly, the kind of changes Jack is talking about would make it more enjoyable for more people. I watched the video of the finals, and a ridiculous number of tossups were going dead, mostly in categories that "good quizbowl" has abandoned--vocabulary, mathcomp, etc. Difficulty was out-of-whack as well. Under no circumstances should there be a high school tossup on Palestrina. Considering that it was a few seconds after the "Pope Marcellus Mass" clue that Lloyd buzzed, I'll bet no one else in the room had even heard of him. In the lower levels, these problems are even more evident. No one enjoys games where fifteen tossups go dead; please fix this by next year.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:04 pm
by jonah
I will agree with Jack to varying extents on several of his points, and disagree on others. Then I'll add a few comments of my own.
JackGlerum wrote:As a state, we have left "scholastic bowl" behind for "quizbowl".
I would love for this to be true. But it's not--certainly not "as a state". There are maybe 20 or 30 teams who have to some extent left scholastic bowl behind for quizbowl, and many of them only in a very partial sense. Probably 5-10 schools have done so pretty much completely, and as you note, New Trier is one of them (assuming Steve takes my advice and doesn't go to Masonics this year). Many of the schools that sent players to Solo are not among the 5-10 or even the 20-30.
JackGlerum wrote:knowledge of the category before the question
This I disagree on, though purely from a functional standpoint. In general, for IHSA-format events and indeed whenever it is possible, that practice ought to be eliminated. However, I think that (if we assume that Solo should continue to exist as some sort of quizbowl event featuring one-on-one matches) it is highly valuable to have records of how players did in individual categories, and I don't think there's any straightforward way to do that without having the order of the categories be the same from match to match. I mean, we could stop reading the categories before the questions and still have them be in the same order, but that's not really a significant improvement.
JackGlerum wrote:strong presence of computational math
Absolutely, though I suspect that calls for its elimination or even reduction will continue to fall on deaf ears. In my room, I felt that conversion of computation questions was noticeably lower than that of any other category, including questions I would consider "hard". And while I had the top room, I saw plenty of matches between non-top players, and this impression was universal among all the matches I saw. Perhaps this is confirmation bias; I'll run the numbers once I get the data.

I've never discussed this rationale with Reinstein, but I think part of the utility of having computation in past years was that Solo was, like Ultima, in large part used to assess candidates for Team Illinois. PAC had computation, so it made sense to have computation in events used to assess those candidates. But Team Illinois now goes to NASAT (assuming that NASAT continues to exist after this year), which doesn't have computation. That gives us 2.5 questions per match, roughly (I'm estimating the incidence of noncomputational math was roughly half a question per match) that could be used to assess players' competence in academic areas that are relevant to quizbowl, and we should use them as such.
JackGlerum wrote:Goddammit Bears!
Spot on, Jack.

For reference in regard to the point I'm about to make, the questions this year were in the following order and distribution: interdisciplinary, current events, algebra/precalc, British lit, world history, chemistry, music, geometry/trig, nonfiction*, world lit, geography/astronomy/earth science, vocabulary+, biology, US history, art/architecture, pyramidal math, religion/myth, physics, US lit, western European history.

I'm going to propose the following distribution. It would continue to feature the absence of pop culture, which I like. It also includes one computation question per match as a concession to the teams that like them and to Reinstein, though I would love to see it go away entirely.
  • 4 science: physics, chemistry, biology, math/earth science/astronomy/computer science
  • 1 computation (Could be standard math, or physics with computation. No computational spelling a la IHSA, please.) Ideally, I would like to see this replaced with a straight-up theoretical math question, or something else; even pop culture would be preferable.
  • 3 history: US, world, European
  • 3 literature: US, British, world/ancient
  • 3 fine arts: music, painting, other (e.g. opera, architecture)
  • 1 social science
  • 1 religion/philosophy
  • 1 mythology
  • 1 current events
  • 1 geography
  • 1 interdisciplinary
This is just a first attempt, but I think it would be a big improvement. Suggestions for refinements are very welcome.

*This was basically a social science or philosophy question.
+Mishmosh, usually interdisciplinary. Answers included gentrification, synthetic, probable cause, stare decisis, tangible, oligarchy, equity, caucus, propaganda, id, epicureanism, estate, marginal, tolerance, hysteresis, deconstructionism, hegemony, cosmology. I had been under the impression that this category was supposed to be a way to fit in other topics that didn't merit one question every match, much like the nonfiction category, but what actually happened was pretty weird and not very good at all.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:08 pm
by JackGlerum
Yeah, "as a state" was a bad way to put it.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:14 pm
by Jane Fairfax
very well run tournament that was very fun.

However, many of the criticisms above are justified. Though Mr. Reinstein should be commended highly for writing 14 rounds + the finals, I think those questions would be much better if we didn't have categories like pyramidal math and vocabulary. Overall, though, the questions were highly improved from previous years.

edit: four Shakespeare questions is a little too much.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:17 pm
by abnormal abdomen
Yeah, I like the idea of keeping track of how many questions individual players are getting in certain categories.

I also really like Jonah's distribution.

With that said, I did enjoy Solo and appreciate the fact that such a unique tournament exists.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:24 pm
by Dan-Don
Jonah's distro should take away comp. math and interdisc. and give 1 to both Lit and History. This tournament is definitely one of the best events on the calendar, but I do think the UIUC Solo has a little more legitimacy. That said, we really shouldn't be complaining....this a is a great thing that Mr. Reinstein writes and organizes every year, and I'm sure we can't even imagine how difficult it is.

EDIT: I'm also weary of the combination of religion and philosophy in Jonah's distro,

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:31 pm
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
four Shakespeare questions is a little too much.
Is it really? There's been a lot of discussion about this in the college section and whatnot, but right now often knowing the works of Chinua Achebe can do just as much to help you win a tournament as knowing how to answer questions about Cervantes, and I'm not sure this is a good thing. Shakespeare is the most important English-language playwright out there by leaps and bounds, and I think we should be strongly weighting knowledge of his work at the high school level, especially because there is such a rich choice of answers possible with all the different things he wrote.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:38 pm
by drose4prez
This tournament was incredibly well run. Running 32 matches at a time while keeping (somewhat)elaborate stats all on questions written mainly by one person is amazing. Thanks to New Trier and their coaches for running this event. It was easily the most fun tournament I've been to.

As for the distribution, I agree that some categories should change. I think Jonah's distribution above would be an improvement, but I disagree with a couple things. First, I don't think FA deserves as many questions as Lit and History. On that same note, I don't think Science deserves 5(4 if you don't count comp math) questions, when lit and history only get 3. Also, I don't think interdisc., geography, and current events each deserve one question. If it were up to me, I'd have 1 question be geography/current events and just not have an interdisciplinary. This frees up 2 questions that could go to lit and history. Also, while I agree with having myth/religion be 1 category, I think it should heavily weighted towards myth. For example, of the 7 rounds I played, I heard 1 common link myth, 1 greek myth, and 5 religion. I think having 5 myth 2 religion would have been better.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:51 pm
by Boeing X-20, Please!
drose4prez wrote:This tournament was incredibly well run. Running 32 matches at a time while keeping (somewhat)elaborate stats all on questions written mainly by one person is amazing. Thanks to New Trier and their coaches for running this event. It was easily the most fun tournament I've been to.

As for the distribution, I agree that some categories should change. I think Jonah's distribution above would be an improvement, but I disagree with a couple things. First, I don't think FA deserves as many questions as Lit and History. On that same note, I don't think Science deserves 5(4 if you don't count comp math) questions, when lit and history only get 3. Also, I don't think interdisc., geography, and current events each deserve one question. If it were up to me, I'd have 1 question be geography/current events and just not have an interdisciplinary. This frees up 2 questions that could go to lit and history. Also, while I agree with having myth/religion be 1 category, I think it should heavily weighted towards myth. For example, of the 7 rounds I played, I heard 1 common link myth, 1 greek myth, and 5 religion. I think having 5 myth 2 religion would have been better.
Jonah's distro seems to fix this because he separates myth from RMP and groups relig/philo together, most likely because having a full 1 philo per round would not go over so well, as finding 14 answerable philosophers/philosophies might be rather hard.
I agree with the whole big 3 being equal thing, but science just has harder-to-work-with categories that need to be separated, so I'm perfectly fine with science getting 1 more than lit/hist. I also agree that Geo definitely needs to be separated from the earth sci/astro category and grouping it with CE is the best option available.

Edit: subject/verb agreement and pluralization

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:51 pm
by Boeing X-20, Please!
EDIT: Double post due to hitting quote instead of edit.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:00 pm
by drose4prez
MoCity02 wrote:
drose4prez wrote:This tournament was incredibly well run. Running 32 matches at a time while keeping (somewhat)elaborate stats all on questions written mainly by one person is amazing. Thanks to New Trier and their coaches for running this event. It was easily the most fun tournament I've been to.

As for the distribution, I agree that some categories should change. I think Jonah's distribution above would be an improvement, but I disagree with a couple things. First, I don't think FA deserves as many questions as Lit and History. On that same note, I don't think Science deserves 5(4 if you don't count comp math) questions, when lit and history only get 3. Also, I don't think interdisc., geography, and current events each deserve one question. If it were up to me, I'd have 1 question be geography/current events and just not have an interdisciplinary. This frees up 2 questions that could go to lit and history. Also, while I agree with having myth/religion be 1 category, I think it should heavily weighted towards myth. For example, of the 7 rounds I played, I heard 1 common link myth, 1 greek myth, and 5 religion. I think having 5 myth 2 religion would have been better.
Jonah's distro seems to fix this because he separates myth from RMP and groups relig/philo together, most likely because having a full 1 philo per round would not go over so well, as finding 14 answerable philosophers/philosophy might be rather hard.
I agree with the whole big 3 being equal thing, but science just has harder-to-work-with categories that need to be separated, so I'm perfectly fine with science getting 1 more than lit/hist. I also agree that Geo definitely needs to be separated from the earth sci/astro category and grouping it with CE is the best option available.
I think 14 philosophy questions is doable. I'd definitely say it's easier than 14 social science questions, since Jonah's distro has 1 SS per round I think. I think the best way to do it would be philo/relig/myth/SS get 3 questions total per round, but that would mess up the category awards. Also, I don't really think relig/philo should be grouped together because they really don't have much to do with each other. Relig/myth works well because there is some stuff, like Hindu myth, for example, that can qualify as both relig and myth.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:15 pm
by abnormal abdomen
drose4prez wrote:
I think 14 philosophy questions is doable. I'd definitely say it's easier than 14 social science questions, since Jonah's distro has 1 SS per round I think. I think the best way to do it would be philo/relig/myth/SS get 3 questions total per round, but that would mess up the category awards. Also, I don't really think relig/philo should be grouped together because they really don't have much to do with each other. Relig/myth works well because there is some stuff, like Hindu myth, for example, that can qualify as both relig and myth.
Based on what you define as "social sciences", I would say this is a "definitely not".

14 philosophy questions would be exhausting a pretty huge chunk of the HS canon. If you define social sciences as psychology, anthropology, economics, and sociology (?) then you shouldn't have a terrible hard time writing 14 questions.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:25 pm
by drose4prez
Jacopo Robusti wrote:
drose4prez wrote:
I think 14 philosophy questions is doable. I'd definitely say it's easier than 14 social science questions, since Jonah's distro has 1 SS per round I think. I think the best way to do it would be philo/relig/myth/SS get 3 questions total per round, but that would mess up the category awards. Also, I don't really think relig/philo should be grouped together because they really don't have much to do with each other. Relig/myth works well because there is some stuff, like Hindu myth, for example, that can qualify as both relig and myth.
Based on what you define as "social sciences", I would say this is a "definitely not".

14 philosophy questions would be exhausting a pretty huge chunk of the HS canon. If you define social sciences as psychology, anthropology, economics, and sociology (?) then you shouldn't have a terrible hard time writing 14 questions.


I guess it depends on the definition of what's social science and what's philosophy. I'd argue that writing 14 questions of those 4 subcategories of SS would be exhausting a large chunk of the HS canon as well.
I think philosophy you could ask about: Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Stoicism, Epicureanism, St Augustine, Aquinas, Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau, Montesqiue, Kant, Descartes, Hegel, Marx/Engels. That's 15 right there and I haven't gotten to the late 19th or 20th centuries. Obviously you couldn't use all of the answers I listed, but still I'd think there's a big enough answer space. Maybe I'm just way off base here, but that's my view.

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:30 pm
by JackGlerum
To clarify, I don't doubt Mr. Reinstein's work ethic or efficiency, I simply think its silly to put the effort towards what is currently accomplished.

Also, I'd rather not nitpick about whose "new" distribution is best. As long as you somewhat follow the norm (for me, that's mACF), you'll be fine. I'm more concerned with getting rid of the "old".

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:57 pm
by David Riley
I don't think any two people are ever going to totally agree on distribution. I don't think Mr. Reinstein is going to give up comp math, either, but he can speak for himself on this and other issues raised here. And I agree with Charlie that four Shakespeare is not too many, for the reasons he's given.

As Jonah pointed out, the "state" has not embraced quiz bowl. While I agree with those who would like to see a true champion crowned (I mean process here, nothing against Lloyd and Andrew, who deserve their spots), if Mr. Reinstein wants to draw a state-wide crowd, then some of the issues we consider part-and-parcel of good quiz bowl would turn off these students. He could accept a smaller field (64?), but I'm not sure he wants to do that.

What would you propose, format wise, to replace the solo in its current form? And foir that matter, would/could Mr. Reinstein be able to write these questions? HSAPQ is in trouble, Aegis has folded, Illinois is locked out of NAQT earlier in the year....who else is there?

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:02 pm
by Boeing X-20, Please!
David Riley wrote: What would you propose, format wise, to replace the solo in its current form? And foir that matter, would/could Mr. Reinstein be able to write these questions? HSAPQ is in trouble, Aegis has folded, Illinois is locked out of NAQT earlier in the year....who else is there?
I think the issue here is clearly not with the actual question quality, as it improved incredibly on previous years, but more with what the questions are on (i.e. vocab category and some questionable answer lines e.g. LASER for physics, with A LOT more people buzzing off of cross-category last 2 lines as opposed to real science clues)

Re: New Trier Scobol Solo 11/7/09

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:12 pm
by David Riley
I really wasn't clear, I was speaking more of answer space for competitive teams/players rather than question quality. If we followed quiz bowl leads, I don't think the average high school student would be able to answer questions on the finer points of Achebe or Japanese literature.