Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:14 pm

Hunter College High School will be holding its third annual Prison Bowl (named after its locale, the "Brick Prison") on Saturday, February 27, 2010. To register, or if you have any questions, please email me at lilychen3.14159@gmail.com. The field is capped at 24 teams, so schools can only register up to two teams at this point, with additional teams going on a waiting list.
Update: This tournament is PACE affiliated and will qualify the top 4 teams for NSC.
Update: Schools can now register as many teams as they want. (2/9/10)

Questions
The questions will be standard mACF format (20 pyramidal tossups, 30-point 3-part bonuses, no computational math), written by us and the University of Missouri. We're aiming for regular difficulty (similar to HSAPQ). The distribution will look something like this:

4/4 Literature
4/4 History
4/4 Science
2.5/2.5 Religion, Mythology, and Philosophy
2.5/2.5 Fine Arts
1/1 Social Science
1/1 Geography
1/1 Pop Culture

Last year's set can be found at quizbowlpackets.com.

Tournament Format
Rounds will consist of an untimed 20/20, with neg-fives, no powers, and no rebounding bonuses. We're aiming for at least 12 rounds and a couple of half-packets to break ties with. Teams will play a bracketed round-robin, then get re-bracketed after any necessary tiebreakers and play another round-robin, followed by finals if necessary.

Fee Structure
$70 for each team
-$10 for each working buzzer system
-$10 for each experienced moderator
Minimum fee per team: $40
Other discounts (such as travel) can be negotiated on a case-by-case basis.

Mirrors
We are also looking for mirror sites in various regions across the U.S. Please email me if you are interested in mirroring Prison Bowl.

Field as of 2/26 (13 teams, 8 buzzers, 1 moderators)
Bergen (3, 3, 0)
Dorman (1, 1, 0)
Half Hollow Hills West (2, 1, 0)
LASA (1, 0, 0)
Preston HS (1, 1, 0)
St. Anselm's (1, 0, 0)
St. Joseph's HS (3, 2, 1)
Trinity (1, 0, 0)

Expressing Interest
HHHE (1-3)
Jonathan Levin HS
Livingston
Richard Montgomery
Last edited by lchen on Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:43 pm, edited 46 times in total.
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:02 am

Saint Joseph's of Metuchen would love to participate, with 2 teams, 2 buzzers and 1 moderator. I will email you ASAP to make this official.
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

User avatar
TheKingInYellow
Rikku
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:13 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by TheKingInYellow » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:01 am

If I say SC will try as hard as we can to make this, will you save a spot for us?
Graham Moyer
State College 2011
Harvard 2015

User avatar
Down and out in Quintana Roo
Auron
Posts: 2907
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Camden, DE
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:27 am

This might have been the best house-written tournament (by a high school) we saw all year. I do hope that last year's small criticisms are taken into consideration, namely about question length and bonus clue length... i.e., please don't give 3 lines for a bonus clue this time.

We'll wait for a mirror in the DC area.
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:50 pm

Lily,

Is Prison Bowl III PACE affiliated or certified?
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:00 pm

Edward Powers wrote:Is Prison Bowl III PACE affiliated or certified?
Thanks for reminding me. I just emailed Fred about this.
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:07 am

Has anyone sent me an email and not heard back from me? I think there might be a problem with the email address in the first post; I've changed it to one that should work.

Also, this tournament is PACE affiliated, as noted above.
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

bfarello
Kimahri
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:58 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by bfarello » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:38 pm

Hills East is potentially interested with 1-3 teams. Will let you know Lily.
Brian Farello
President and Captain
Half Hollow Hills High School East '09-'10

User avatar
Down and out in Quintana Roo
Auron
Posts: 2907
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Camden, DE
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:41 pm

Dr. Isaac Yankem, DDS wrote:We'll wait for a mirror in the DC area.
Is this going to be mirrored in the MD/VA/DC area in February?
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org

Adventure Temple Trail
Auron
Posts: 2613
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:47 pm

Dr. Isaac Yankem, DDS wrote:
Dr. Isaac Yankem, DDS wrote:We'll wait for a mirror in the DC area.
Is this going to be mirrored in the MD/VA/DC area in February?
If your definition of "February" includes "April", there's a mirror at VCU on April 3rd.
Matt J.
ex-Georgetown Day HS, ex-Yale
member emeritus, ACF

Sailing away on my copper boat

User avatar
Down and out in Quintana Roo
Auron
Posts: 2907
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Camden, DE
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:49 pm

RyuAqua wrote:
Dr. Isaac Yankem, DDS wrote:
Dr. Isaac Yankem, DDS wrote:We'll wait for a mirror in the DC area.
Is this going to be mirrored in the MD/VA/DC area in February?
If your definition of "February" includes "April", there's a mirror at VCU on April 3rd.
Almost.

And yeah, i just realized that... hmm.
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org

wexs883198215
Wakka
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:02 pm
Location: Stanford, California

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by wexs883198215 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:53 pm

That's a really long wait...
Kuo-Kai Chin
Walter Johnson High School '11
Harvard University '15
Stanford University School of Medicine '19

User avatar
Self-incompatibility in plants
Rikku
Posts: 350
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: Dover, Delaware

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Self-incompatibility in plants » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:31 pm

It is very possible that CR will now be attending this tournament.
Trey Taraila
Caesar Rodney 2010
University of Delaware 2014

Knot Gneiss
Lulu
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:23 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Knot Gneiss » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:01 pm

LASA will very likely be sending one team to this tournament.
Benji Nguyen
LASA
Stanford

SHM
Lulu
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:20 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by SHM » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:26 pm

Paul Laurence Dunbar would like to bring 1 or 2 teams.
Susan, Dunbar

Eric Huff
Wakka
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:02 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Eric Huff » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:20 am

Pending various administrative hurdles, Dorman will be attending. Lily: I'll send an official registration email soon.
Eric Huff

National History Bee (eric AT historybee.com)
ACE Quizbowl Camps (eric AT acequizbowlcamp.com)
Former Head Coach, Dorman High School (2001-2012)

http://www.historybee.com
http://www.acequizbowlcamp.com

User avatar
TheKingInYellow
Rikku
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:13 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by TheKingInYellow » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:46 pm

Holy cow this is awesome
Graham Moyer
State College 2011
Harvard 2015

ieppler
Rikku
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:38 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD/Providence, RI
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by ieppler » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:23 pm

Dear alma mater,

Please attend this site.

Sincerely,
Ian
Ian Eppler from Brown University

User avatar
The King's Flight to the Scots
Auron
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:23 pm

Saint Anselm's is interested (yes, in this site).
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
Communications Officer, ACF

shsquizbowl
Lulu
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:49 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by shsquizbowl » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:35 am

Simsbury would like to officially express interest, 1-2 teams
Simsbury High School
Phil ('11)
Former Captains: Stephanie and Ben ('10)

User avatar
btressler
Tidus
Posts: 615
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:23 pm
Location: West Chester, PA
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by btressler » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:09 am

Put Charter down for 1 team, 1 reader, and 2 buzzers.
Bill Tressler,
Dickinson ('97) Carnegie Mellon ('99) Delaware ('06)
Seen moderating at various SE Pennsylvania events.

User avatar
BroNi
Rikku
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 2:15 pm
Location: Kellenberg MHS, Uniondale, NY

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by BroNi » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:35 am

2 teams, 4 buzzers, 1 moderator
Bro. Nigel, Coach, Kellenberg Memorial HS, NY

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:49 pm

Hey everyone,
The field is now definitely capped at 24, since we were only able to book so many rooms. With 9-10 teams already registered, teams who are expressing interest should register as soon as possible while there are still spots left.
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

Angry Babies in Love
Yuna
Posts: 819
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:09 pm
Location: MD//DC

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:07 pm

Richard Montgomery is interested. More info to come.
Raynell Cooper
Arcadia ES '04
Richard Montgomery HS '11
George Washington University '15
University of Maryland, College Park '17
Hella things, National History Bee and Bowl

raysaagar
Lulu
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:33 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by raysaagar » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:51 pm

Livingston is interested as well, more to come soon.
Saagar Deshpande
Livingston A
LHS '10

User avatar
narwhal
Lulu
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by narwhal » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:48 pm

Bergen's interested. Most likely, we'd bring 2 teams, a buzzer set, and (potentially) two moderators.

I will speak to the team and send you a registration email ASAP.
Amudan J. "Jay" Srinivasan
Bergen '10 (1st Lt. '09-'10)
Duke '14

bobweiser425
Lulu
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:24 am

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by bobweiser425 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:01 pm

I would like to mirror your question set for Feb. 27th for the Solon High School tournament on Sunday, Feb. 14th. Please let me know the details. Bob Weiser budyzer@en.com
Bob Weiser
Solon

Adventure Temple Trail
Auron
Posts: 2613
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:03 pm

GDS intends to bring two (2) teams to this.
Matt J.
ex-Georgetown Day HS, ex-Yale
member emeritus, ACF

Sailing away on my copper boat

User avatar
Down and out in Quintana Roo
Auron
Posts: 2907
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Camden, DE
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:38 am

Since the VCU mirror got moved to a better date for us (April 24th), we'll probably be headed to Richmond instead of NYC to hear this set. I just hope there are good teams left (besides Gov) to go to that tournament!

Good luck to all the teams heading to New York in this pretty awesome field.
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org

User avatar
Iamrebel
Lulu
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:38 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Iamrebel » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:57 pm

Stuyvesant is interested in coming. We are still figuring out how many teams to send.
Michael Ruan
Stuyvesant High School '10
President and Captain of the Stuyvesant Quiz Bowl Team 09-10

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:14 pm

With about four weeks left until the tournament, we have 19 teams currently registered, with 5 spots left to hit our ideal field size of 24. If you are one of the teams on the "expressing interest" list, please register as soon as possible if you would still like to attend!
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:58 pm

Lily,

With Stuyvesant's registration, that makes 21, not 19, teams---or am I missing something? And, just to be a little nosey, given correspondence to which you alone are privy, what's your gut feeling---will the field reach your desired 24 in time, or might you be stuck with 21, or, worse, a very difficult number like 22? Might some of the teams on your 'interested list' actually register? Seems like they've been interested forever, does it not?

Just curious here in New Jersey. And excited as well---I suspect it is going to be a great tournament. And I hope you get to the 24 teams you are rooting for.
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

Cassian
Lulu
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:03 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Cassian » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:07 pm

I was wondering that as well. Any news on other teams registering? We made our hotel reservations earlier in the week, and we're all looking forward to what looks like a great tournament.
Jason Flowers
Quiz Bowl Coach
The Liberal Arts and Science Academy
Austin, TX

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:53 pm

Thanks for pointing that out, Coach Powers. We do indeed have 21 teams. If we don't reach 24 teams soon, I think I will open up the field to C teams sometime in the next week. If worst comes to worst, I'm sure we can find alternates willing to form a hybrid team on the day of the tournament.
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:21 am

Lily,

A prosaic but important question if I might----to whom should our check be made payable? To the Hunter College HS Academic Team? Or something more specific?
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:31 am

Edward Powers wrote:to whom should our check be made payable?
The check should be made out to "HCHS Quiz Bowl."
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:03 pm

Thank you Lily.
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

User avatar
BroNi
Rikku
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 2:15 pm
Location: Kellenberg MHS, Uniondale, NY

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by BroNi » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:42 am

Bad news, I'm afraid. Because of the rescheduled Regional Science Olympiad date for the WLI region, Kellenberg will not be able to attend this year.
Bro. Nigel, Coach, Kellenberg Memorial HS, NY

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:16 pm

With two and a half weeks until the tournament, we're back down to 19 teams now. I'm removing the restriction on 2 teams per school. If anyone wanted to register more teams, now is the time. Please bring buzzers and moderators!
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:30 pm

Lily,

No luck in getting the "Interested Teams" to actually register? I wish I could help---maybe give a shout-out to all those "Interested Teams" sitting on the fence...I'd ask them to look at the fabulous field committed to attend and ask how they could pass up such an opportunity to challenge their kids to play some of the very best teams this country has to offer. I would suggest that even in a worst case scenario that their players will more than likely come away with first hand experience of the excellence that is possible in quizbowl. But of course the retort would probably be that each team has to decide for itself what best serves its program's needs---a principle with which I am in complete agreement. So the question would really be how could Prison Bowl do anything other than serve those needs?

I would say all of this to these "Interested Teams" if I could---but I do not have their email addresses, so I guess I can't. Oh well---if only there was SOME medium through which they could be spoken to---after all, they have indicated their interest, and the date for the tournament is coming fast, so at least they could get off of the fence one way or another. And, if they will not respond, perhaps there is a way in which other interested programs might be persuaded to help fill up the field to your goal of 24. Might you know of any such medium? Veeeeeery puzzled, indeed mystified, here in Jersey. Where is technological innovation when you need it most? :sad:
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:59 pm

Edward Powers wrote: No luck in getting the "Interested Teams" to actually register?
I've emailed the interested teams. If we stay at 20 teams that'd work out okay, too; we'd just have 10 games and 1 bye instead of 11 games. We do need buzzers and moderators, though. If anyone has any extra buzzer sets, or if any coaches are willing to read, again, the discount is $10 for each.

Registration is still open. If you haven't registered and want to register, or if you are already registered and want to bring more teams, please let me know as soon as possible!
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:30 pm

I gather the 10 games & 1 bye would occur as a result of Prelims of 5 teams in 4 brackets, leading to 4 matches & 1 bye in the Prelims, then the Top 2 from each bracket would create a Championship bracket of 8 teams, with no team playing its Prelim opponent, but the remaining 6 qualifiers, for 6 more matches in the Championships? Is this your idea if no more teams register? If so, it seems to be a very creative solution to the less than ideal number of 24 and still promises an exciting Championship Field of 8. Or have I misread your intentions here?
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:45 pm

Edward Powers wrote:I gather the 10 games & 1 bye would occur as a result of Prelims of 5 teams in 4 brackets, leading to 4 matches & 1 bye in the Prelims, then the Top 2 from each bracket would create a Championship bracket of 8 teams, with no team playing its Prelim opponent, but the remaining 6 qualifiers, for 6 more matches in the Championships? Is this your idea if no more teams register? If so, it seems to be a very creative solution to the less than ideal number of 24 and still promises an exciting Championship Field of 8. Or have I misread your intentions here?
This is correct. If we get 21, we'd do something similar with 3 prelim brackets of 7 and playoff brackets of 6, 6, 6, 3. If we get 22, we'd probably do prelim brackets of 6, 6, 5, 5, with two brackets having a bye round.
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:11 pm

Since you suggest a 6,6,5,5 formula if you get 22, I imagine you would use a 6,6,6,5 if you get 23. So why not remain consistent and do a 4 bracket Prelim of 6,5,5,5 for a field of 21---keeping your championship field at 8 rather than 6? Given the high number of outstanding teams coming from long distances, would not a Final bracket of 8 give 2 more very good teams a chance to play against one of the best final fields in the country and more likely expand the geographic diversity of the finals as well? Or does the reduction of the Championship bracket to a narrower field of 6 have a greater allure? Care to share your thoughts on this?
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:25 pm

Edward Powers wrote:I imagine you would use a 6,6,6,5 if you get 23. So why not remain consistent and do a 4 bracket Prelim of 6,5,5,5 for a field of 21---keeping your championship field at 8 rather than 6?
Well I was considering using a hybrid scab team to bump us up to 24 if we ended up with 23 teams, so that everyone can get a full 11 games. I figure uneven brackets should be avoided if possible, but you do have a point. What do registered teams think about this?
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:34 pm

I suspect you will figure it all out irrespective of the final number of registrants. My real point is about the numbers in the CHAMPIONSHIP & CONSOLATION PLAYOFFS---in all scenarios except one you will use 4 Prelim brackets and take the top 2 from each, creating a Championship bracket of 8, a Consolation Bracket of 8, and a 2nd Consolation bracket of 4-8.

But in the one case--the case of 21 registrants rather than 20, 22, 23, or 24, you suggest creating a playoffs of 6,6,6, 3, narrowing the Championship field by 2 matches. In effect, aren't Preliminary matches made more important in this scenario? In it, 6 prelim matches take place, while 4 playoff matches occur if you still keep teams from playing Prelim bracket opponents. So---60% of the total of 10 matches will be Prelims...unless of course you drop the rule in the Finals that you cannot play a prelim opponent---adding a 5th match to the finals. But even here, you have MORE Prelims than Finals matches.

Conversely, if you keep the 4 Bracket formula no matter what the number of registrants, from 20-24 inclusive, then everyone will get 4 or 5 Prelims matches and 6 Finals matches against teams of comparable calibre---reversing the percentages of Finals matches to Prelim matches in the 6,6,6,3 formula.

Now I cannot speak for any other registered team, but my guess is that almost all would prefer more Finals calibre matches than Prelim calibre matches, and the 4 bracket Prelim scenario clearly does this better than the 3 bracket one does. Further, since many teams have traveled long distances to play in this great field, a higher percentage of Championship or Playoff calibre matches is probably what encouraged them to make such a trek in the first place.

But I could be wrong about this. And I've already made my views clear, so I will bow out of this discussion for now and trust that others who wish to will address the issues as they see fit to do so.
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

lchen
Wakka
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Hunter, NYC
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by lchen » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:39 am

Edward Powers wrote: But in the one case--the case of 21 registrants rather than 20, 22, 23, or 24, you suggest creating a playoffs of 6,6,6, 3, narrowing the Championship field by 2 matches. In effect, aren't Preliminary matches made more important in this scenario? In it, 6 prelim matches take place, while 4 playoff matches occur if you still keep teams from playing Prelim bracket opponents. So---60% of the total of 10 matches will be Prelims...unless of course you drop the rule in the Finals that you cannot play a prelim opponent---adding a 5th match to the finals. But even here, you have MORE Prelims than Finals matches.
Okay, so I've thought about this a bit more, and it seems like there are two possibilities:

Scenario 1: 3 prelim brackets of 7, which gives 7 rounds, or 6 games and one bye. Rebracket to 6, 6, 6, 3 for playoffs, which is 4 crossover games for the top 3 brackets and a double round robin for the bottom bracket. This is 10 guaranteed games for everyone.
Scenario 2: 4 prelim brackets of 6, 5, 5, 5, which gives 5 rounds. Three brackets get 4 games and one bye, while one bracket gets 5 games. Rebracket to 8, 8, 5 (or 8, 7, 6, which probably doesn't make much sense). The top two brackets would then get 6 crossover games, while the bottom bracket would get 4 games (and for two of the teams this would include a repeat). This means 4 teams get 11 games, 12 teams get 10 games, 2 teams get 9 games, and 3 teams get 8 games.

So I'm not really convinced that the second is the better solution. Even though it allows 8 teams a chance at the championship, it reduces the number of guaranteed games to 8, and seems awfully unfair for teams paying the same amount of money to play this tournament.
Lily Chen
Hunter '12, MIT '16

Edward Powers
Auron
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Edward Powers » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:29 am

I personally think that it's the quality of the matches rather than the absolute quantity of the matches that most matters. Once the Playoffs begin, in the 4 bracket scenario, the top 16 will have an equal number of quality matches in each of their playoff brackets, and 4 of the bottom 5 could have a round robin of 5 matches during the 6 rounds that the upper level teams are playing, with only one getting a 2nd bye---and that could be based on performance after 5 rounds, and not a mere bracketing formula, could it not? In effect, 4 of the bottom 5 would get 5 full matches and even a chance at their own bracket championship if they are reseeded after 5 rounds, with the team with the least success being the only one not to play a 5th match---the other 4 could play for bracket placements. So, 20 of the 21 teams would play throughout the playoffs, with all matches mattering throughout, and only one team being eliminated, but only prior to the very last round---Round 6--- of the playoffs? This sounds OK to me.

But the bottom line is this---this is your tournament and you should run it as you think best. My comments are simply that---comments----made simply in an exploratory and amicable spirit. Whatever decision you make is fine with me, and I am sure you will make the decisions that are best for all involved. Besides, others might have more helpful comments, but you can and should be the ultimate judge of that.

Of course---a great solution and the best one would be for the interested teams you contacted, or others who have become interested, to sign up and bring the field to the ideal number of 24---so I'll hope for that, as I suspect you will as well. And with this wish, I will say good night---and good luck no matter what final decisions you make.
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ

Cassian
Lulu
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:03 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by Cassian » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:05 pm

Lily -

Though I agree that the second option you suggested is more unfair (especially to the teams in the smaller prelim brackets), I can say that we'd be in favor of that option over the first one. Basically, we're in favor of any option that gets us into 8-team playoff brackets where we can get the 6 crossover games after re-bracketing. That said, I'm sure whatever you come up with will work fine for us, especially since I know this tournament is going to be really hard to bracket no matter what configuration you use. We're just glad to have the opportunity to play in such a high-quality tournament before nationals, and of course we're looking forward to being in the city for the weekend.
Jason Flowers
Quiz Bowl Coach
The Liberal Arts and Science Academy
Austin, TX

User avatar
btressler
Tidus
Posts: 615
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:23 pm
Location: West Chester, PA
Contact:

Re: Prison Bowl III at Hunter HS (NYC) - 2/27/10

Post by btressler » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:57 pm

Here, let me scramble the planning.

Charter B would like to attend.

We have at least three buzzer systems should you need them.
Bill Tressler,
Dickinson ('97) Carnegie Mellon ('99) Delaware ('06)
Seen moderating at various SE Pennsylvania events.

Locked