BATE Competition 3/20/10

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BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Commandant1424 »

Hey guys, sorry for the late post, but it has been a hectic couple months here. But i bring good news! Bloomfield will be hosting our BATE competition this year on March 20th, 2010. We are still working out most of the details such as question set, round set-up, and final pricing, but I wanted to at least put the date up on here so that any teams interested in signing up will know about it. Within the next couple of weeks, I should have everything worked out and I will just edit this post to show all the tournament information. Any suggestions on how we can improve from last year's tournament would be welcome, as well as any other general comments. Also, if there are any problems or scheduling conflicts with the 20th, please let me know and we will try to accommodate everyone to the best of our ability. If there are any questions/concerns, feel free to email me at [email protected].

Thanks,
Tom Oates
Bloomfield Academic Team President

Edited by staff to reflect date change to the 20th of March.
Last edited by Mechanical Beasts on Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by lchen »

Isn't this the same date as Weekend of Quizbowl?
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by at your pleasure »

Dunno, there's no date claimed for Weekend of Quizbowl in the DC area date claim thread. The 13th is the date of GDS's tournament, though.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

If this is on 3-13, i think we're going to GDS instead.

March is a busy month, it's going to be hard to fit in another tournament. April is tough too.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Edward Powers »

UPDATE: Fred Morlan has posted here on the hsquizbolw site that PACE will NOT be running Weekend of Quizbowl this year, so it cannot possibly conflict with BATE's date claim.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Guybo »

Apparently, BATE will now be held on March 20 instead of March 13 as I spoke with the advisor yesterday at Bergen. It has been updated on the NAQT website but not here so for planning purposes I thought many of you would like to know.

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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Okay, there is a tournament at the University of Delaware that day that NJ teams have come to in the past... not an northern NJ teams, though, from what i know. But, yeah, once again this makes this tournament something we definitely can't go to, still.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Commandant1424 »

Ok guys, sorry for the confusion with the date, but our BOE and administration have been moving things and doing all kinds of different, fairly ridiculous, stuff lately. They have pretty much told us, according to our advisor who was in contact with them recently, that the only date the district can work with is in fact March 13th. I'm glad to hear, through one of the posts I read, that it isn't in conflict with another major tournament in the area, so hopefully plenty of teams can go.


We have purchased the packet of questions we will be using, they will be NAQT set #95. As far as round structure goes, that would depend on how many teams register and all that, but I can say that it will be round robin including playoffs, and that there will more than likely be no consilation bracket, we will just take the top performing teams in each bracket and go from there. That is all very unofficial though, just simply the likely course we will take once we get all the teams and finalize the brackets.

Registration will officially open after we get back from our Winter Recess, which is January 4th I believe, however, any teams interested in signing up can express their interest in this thread.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Guybo »

OK, I hope you are sure of March 13 because I spoke to your coach/advisor at Bergen on Saturday and she specifically told me that the HS adminstration wouldn't let you guys host on the 13th but only on the 20th. You might want to speak to her again just to be certain. We probably can come on either date but I want to talk to my kids and pin down whether they can come or not before the holidays so we can register. Thanks.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by wexs883198215 »

Edward Powers wrote:UPDATE: Fred Morlan has posted here on the hsquizbolw site that PACE will NOT be running Weekend of Quizbowl this year, so it cannot possibly conflict with BATE's date claim.
But isn't Clemson hosting a Weekend of Quizbowl independent of PACE? Not that I"m saying it's the same date. The announcement said that it would be 3/6 and 3/7.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Edward Powers »

You are correct---Clemson is hosting W of Q on March 6 & 7---but this was not announced until November 19th, 4 days AFTER I pointed out that Fred Morlan had announced that PACE would not be running W of Q this year. So I hope this clears up some confusion on W of Q.

Meanwhile, I assume it's accurate that BATE will be held on the 13th of March? But Coach Rabner's question does need to be answered concerning the 20th---otherwise there will be confusion about BATE's actual date, will there not?
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Commandant1424 »

well, it seems now that SATs are being held on March 13th, so the administration has agreed to let us host on the 20th, so as not to conflict with the testing.

The definitive date is going to be March 20, 2010. That date will not change, because now the administration has finally agreed that that date is the best way to go, since anything else is impossible. I am awfully sorry for the confusion, communication on our part has been slow to say the least. But now I am 100% positive with March 20th for BATE. Registration will open January 4th, 2010. By that date I'll have pricing all figured out and posted on here. Thanks everyone for the patience, and again, sorry for the confusion.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Edward Powers »

If March 20th is the firm date, then changing it in your FORUM POST might avoid confusion. It might also persuade NAQT to change IS SETS with you & Chatham, allowing anyone going to the Bluehen on the 20th the chance to go to Chatham on May 22 if the switch is made. Since you have changed your date, perhaps you can ask NAQT to make this switch.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Important Bird Area »

Edward Powers wrote:persuade NAQT to change IS SETS with you & Chatham, allowing anyone going to the Bluehen on the 20th the chance to go to Chatham on May 22 if the switch is made. Since you have changed your date, perhaps you can ask NAQT to make this switch.
We're aware of this situation, and will consider making a switch.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Edward Powers »

Jeff---if NAQT decides to make the switch, how will it be announced? On this thread? Another? At the NAQT scheduling site itself? Or, on multiple sites?
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Important Bird Area »

Here and on naqt.com.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Important Bird Area »

OK, we've switched the packets. Bloomfield will get IS #94 and Chatham IS #95.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Jeff, so which is the set that the Blue Hen Invitational will have now?
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Important Bird Area »

#94.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/13/10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Gotcha. Thanks.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Commandant1424 »

Alright everyone, I'm terribly sorry for the late posting, our advisor was very busy this month recovering from some surgery and trying to get prices and rules and the team limit and all that. We are capping the field at 32 teams for now, last time I believe we had 24. Also for anyone that attended last year's competition, for the sake of time, our advisor has emailed you directly with the rules and registration packets, so I hope you all remain interested in attending. Obviously, all are more than welcome! As for the packet, as you all know, we have switched to accomodate some friends so as to not cause any confusion or overlap of tournaments.

If/when the registration forms are complete, please send them to our advisor, Ms. Caryn Gilbert at [email protected]

Here is all the information for anyone who didn't receive an email, I hope you all are interested in attending.
Attachments
BATE Registration.doc
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Edward Powers »

Any updates on registration? Saint Joe's is potentially interested, but it seems no one has registered---hopefully this is incorrect. Is it?
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by lchen »

Hunter will probably bring either two or three teams to this. I'll let you know soon.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by lchen »

Can you please post a field update for this? Also, is there any particular reason why you have chosen single elimination? $90 for 6 guaranteed rounds is... less than ideal.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Golran »

If New York State championships fall through, then there's a shot Ward Melville would be interested with 2 teams plus a reader. How is the field looking?
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Golran »

New York states fell through... I just sent an e-mail, but Ward Melville is interested, 2 teams, 1 reader, probably 0, but maybe some buzzers.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by gstoye »

Can we get a field update? Thanks!
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by SHP Pirate »

Provided that room is still available ... SHP would like to brink 2 teams, 1 buzzer, 1 moderator. Please let me know if this works.

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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Edward Powers »

The last post by anyone from Bloomfield on this forum was on January 25th. Since then prospective members of your field for BATE have made simple inquiries or requests for updates; representatives from the Saint Joseph, Hunter College, Ward Melville, MAST and SHP high schools have all made these requests---but with what result? Absolute silence. Now I do not want to seem discourteous or cause any trouble, but do you really think it is courteous on your end to consistently ignore simple requests from your potential field? Are potential registrants more interested in BATE than those at Bloomfield are? March 20th is less than a week away and there has never been a posting of the field that has signed up, or, in fact, any other communication to the quizbowl community since January, leaving one to wonder if this tournament will be held at all. So, will it? And, if it will, would you care to let everyone coming or who might wish to come actually know who their fellow competitors might be? Care to engage in a little enlightening conversation here about YOUR tournament with others in the quizbowl community? A little collegiality might go a long way.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Golran »

They have been responding by e-mail, so they may not be checking the boards.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Edward Powers »

But they advertised on these boards and people responded here with questions. But it is good to know they have responded in some form. BTW, since they have responded to you by email, could you enlighten us about the field?
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Guybo »

Not everyone checks these boards. I usaully do only once a week or so. Best is to always email if you really want to find something out, I've found. This is the update I received from Mrs. Gilbert regarding teams:



Teams Buzzers

JFK Memorial 1 0

Colonia H.S. 1 3

Livingston 4 1

Bergen Academies 3 1

Millburn 3 2

Glen Rock 3 0

Secaucus 2 0

Paramus Catholic 1 0

MAST 2 1

St. Peters Prep 2 0

Seton Hall Prep 2 0

Hunter 2 2

North Babylon 2 0

Ward Melville H.S. 2 0

This, of course, is not official but what I received a few days ago. We registered a month or so ago. Is St. Joseph's registering, Mr. Powers? Always good to have another strong team in a local event.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Edward Powers »

Good to hear from you Mr. Rabner. And thanks for your best estimate of the current field. Since there had been no responses to the posted inquiries from Hunter, MAST, Ward Melville, SHP and SJHS over a period of more than a month, and, further, since there had been no field update, I actually thought this tournament might have died due to inanition and a lack of interest---so, given this and given the expense of tournaments---transportation costs alone are daunting---- I and my kids erased it from our schedule and began looking for possible substitutes. But part of me wanted to reach out one last time, and, thankfully, I have received 2 responses to my inquiry of today, one of which---yours--- actually revealed the contours of an actual field. So I have emailed my players to see if they can make it and join the competitive fun. I should know within 24 hours or so. If they can, and, of course, if registration has not been closed, SJHS will be there. But either way, thanks for your kind and informative response, and I will certainly remember your advice about emails.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Edward Powers »

Unfortunately more than half of my kids made other plans, so SJHS will not be there. Good luck. Maybe we will see you all at Colonia or Chatham in May.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Blahhunter »

Are the stats going to be posted up soon by any chance?
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by lchen »

Thank you to Bloomfield for running this tournament, and to the coaches who volunteered to moderate. It was relatively well-run considering the dearth of qualified moderators.

Although I can't say we weren't warned, I was a bit disappointed that there were no consolation games, especially since our B team was placed in the "bracket of death" with a disproportionate number of strong teams. I'll wait until stats are posted, but I have a feeling that every one of the teams in that bracket could have made the playoffs if the brackets were a bit more even. Even considering the moderator situation, certainly after the round of 16, half of the playoff moderators could have moderated some consolation scrimmages. Otherwise, the registration fee of $90 for four guaranteed rounds (some brackets had a bye) seems unjustifiably high.

The questions seemed to be standard NAQT fare, though as Isaac noted in the other thread, there were some rather questionable cross-distributional bonuses.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by raysaagar »

i wasn't able to make it today, how did the tournament go?
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by lchen »

raysaagar wrote:i wasn't able to make it today, how did the tournament go?
In the finals, Hunter A d. Bergen A (455-205). I'm not sure what happened on the other side of the bracket, but Paramus Catholic A presumably played whoever lost to Bergen A in the other semi-final for third place.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Guybo »

Bergen A beat Livingston A in the semifinals by about 100, 360 or so to 260. Congrats to Hunter- I read for you and you are a VERY strong team and should do well at nationals. Bergen A, for whom I read the semifinals, is also a very good team, and to beat them as handily as you did shows how good you are.

I agree with Lily. While both the Livingston A and C teams had realtively easy brackets with very little competition, the Livingston B team, a good team, was in the egrigiously disproportionately strong bracket with Bergen B, Seton Hall A, Ranney A, Hunter B and Ward Melville A. 5 of these teams had legitimate chances to reach at least the quarterfinals yet were all foreced to knock each other out. It made for an uneven playoff seeding and placing. Livingston B with a 2-3 record still made the playoffs but were forced to play Hunter A in the first round of playoffs and were closer than even Bergen A was in the finals. If you are unsure of the relative strengths of the teams, it's important that you consult the teams or coaches so that you can more fairly and equitably place the teams to avoid the unfair playoff draw and that this doesn't happen again. Livingston B had hopes of finally qualifying for nationals yet could not because of this.

I agree, too, that the amount charged was a little high. Livingston had charged $10 less per team the week before and provied more food, a consolation bracket as well as trophies to the champions and runners up of both draws as well as trophies to the semi finalists. 2 trophies to just the finalist and champion seems too few. I understand that this is a team funraiser but it's also imporatnt to keep costs in line with the other local tournaments.

Also, it's important to have as many experienced readers as possible and, though I wasn't technically a moderator, I offered help to speed things up and keep things running smoothly. Particularly for the latter rounds, it's important to have the best moderators as is possible to ensure no problems... as I was informed that there were.

Still, these issues aside, Bloomfield did an admirable job to make things run relatively on time, despite a late start, and make it a fun, challenging day for the kids. Thank you.

Once again, congrats to Hunter A and all of the teams who competed... best of luck the rest of the year.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Golran »

I was shocked when I saw that preliminary bracket; We were missing our top 3 players, who are about 90% of the A team's scoring, and that team had lost in a close game to Seton Hall A at HHHW. Both our teams were disappointed with only 5 rounds, especially considering they didn't make the playoffs.

On another note, I was pleased to finally see Hunter play, as well as finally meet many people that I have interacted with only through this site. I was happy to be able to read, despite having to wait about 45 minutes after my first round for teams to arrive for the second, and about 10-15 minutes between all the other rounds.

I also forgot how much New York rush hour traffic can be, but rediscovered it this afternoon when it took around 4 hours to get home (about 80 miles), 2 of which were spent still in New Jersey.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by jonpin »

I grabbed a copy of the prelim stats and also kept track of the bracket as it developed.

As some noted, the brackets were pretty badly distributed. When the pool assignments were handed out, my first thought literally was "Is that last one the JV bracket?" It had Livingston C, Bergen C, Millburn C, SH Prep C, and Chatham. Meanwhile the "Ravenclaw" division was a bracket of death and then some. Every team in that pool was over 13 PPB, only seven of the other 22 teams were.
Atrocious group assignments lead to unexpected seeding, and as a result Livingston C was the 4th seed, and their 4-13 game saw neither team break 150, while the 7-10 game saw both teams clear 200. Ranney B also qualified for playoffs, scoring less than 100ppg, while six teams above that mark missed the playoffs.

Octofinals
(1) Hunter A 370-160 (16) Livingston B
(8) Chatham 130-220 (9) Bergen B
(4) Livingston C 130-150 (13) Paramus Catholic A
(5) SH Prep A 295-110 (12) Bergen C
(2) Bergen A 325-60 (15) Ranney B
(7) Ranney A 275-210 (10) MAST
(3) Livingston A 310-100 (14) JFK Academy
(6) Millburn A 275-60 (11) Millburn B

Quarterfinals
Hunter A 490-140 Bergen B
Paramus Catholic A beat SH Prep A (don't know score, but margin was 5 points)
Bergen A 460-140 Ranney A
Livingston A 380-210 Millburn A

Semifinals
Hunter A 455-50 Paramus Catholic A
Bergen A 350-230 Livingston A

Championship
HUNTER A 455-205 Bergen A

Also, I made a quick comparison of tournaments in the NJ/NYC area this season, based on cost and guaranteed games:
Kellenberg $60; 7 prelim games; 3 games of RR playoffs + consolation (10 guaranteed)
States $60; 6 prelim games; 3 games of RR playoffs + consolation (9 guaranteed)
Princeton $80; 8 prelim games; 16-team SE + consolation (9 guaranteed)
Livingston $80; 5 prelim games; 16-team SE + consolation pools (6 guaranteed)
HHHWest $90; 5 prelim games; 32-team SE (5 guaranteed)
Bloomfield $90; 4-5 prelim games; 16-team SE (4 guaranteed)

Non-NAQT questions
Hunter $70; 6 prelim games; 4 games of RR playoffs + 3 of consolation (9 guaranteed)
Bergen $70; 5 prelim games; 5 games of RR playoffs + consolation (10 guaranteed)
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lchen
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by lchen »

jonpin wrote: Hunter $70; 6 prelim games; 4 games of RR playoffs + 3 of consolation (9 guaranteed)
Actually (if it matters), all teams were guaranteed 10 games. The consolation bracket had 3 cross-bracket games, and then were re-seeded for a final consolation round.
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Rompimientos del Centauro
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Rompimientos del Centauro »

Having seen stats for the prelims, will full tournament stats be posted soon?
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by jonpin »

Considering that there wasn't a lot of host action on this thread before the tournament... not sure. If I'm not mistaken, the printout that I swiped a copy of with prelim stats is at my parents' house in PA, so if stats haven't been posted by next weekend, I'll be able to type up the overall numbers for the prelims when I go there again for Easter.
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by jonpin »

While cleaning my room, I discovered the stats sheets I had grabbed a copy of, and since there's been no such activity from Bloomfield, I spent some time tonight typing it up.

Code: Select all

Gryffindor Bracket
Team.. W-L PPG 15 10 -5 Pts/B PS
Liv  A 5-0 385 22 42 11 19.22  3
Mill A 4-1 274  3 46  9 18.57  6
JFK    3-2 139  1 34  8 10.86 14
Ward B 2-3 119  4 25  5 10.69
SPet A 1-4 125  4 27  4 10.16
Sec  B 0-5  44  0 13  0  6.92

Hufflepuff Bracket
Team.. W-L PPG 15 10 -5 Pts/B PS
Hunt A 5-0 495 34 41 17 21.87  1
MAST   4-1 244  6 46  8 13.65 10
Rann B 3-2  94  3 24  1  7.04 15
Sec  A 2-3  86  1 25  3  6.92
PCat B 1-4  67  0 23  1  4.78
Colon  0-5  46  0 15  4  6.67

Ravenclaw Bracket
Team.. W-L PPG 15 10 -5 Pts/B PS
SHP  A 4-1 321 11 42 12 20.38  5
Rann A 4-1 267 10 40  5 16.20  7
BCA  B 4-1 219  9 34 10 15.58  9
Liv  B 2-3 266 13 35 11 17.50 16
Hunt B 1-4 135  3 26  6 13.79
Ward A 0-5 123  5 22  8 13.33

Slytherin Bracket
Team.. W-L PPG 15 10 -5 Pts/B PS
BCA  A 4-0 471 11 49  4 20.83  2
Mill B 2-2 236  7 27  8 17.94 11*
PCat A 2-2 140  3 24  7 11.48 13*
SHP  B 2-2 136  4 20  1 12.08   *
SPet B 0-4  51  4  8  7  8.33
*Mill-B and PCat-A chosen on PPG

Dumbledore Bracket
Team.. W-L PPG 15 10 -5 Pts/B PS
Liv  C 4-0 203  8 28  4 11.94  4
Chat   3-1 266  7 35 12 15.95  8
BCA  C 2-2 153  0 27  2 12.96 12
Mill C 1-3 130  2 22  6 12.50
SHP  C 0-4  24  0  6  1  6.67
Wild Card Determination
Best 4th place team by PPB

Code: Select all

  Team.. W-L PPG Pts/B
  Ward B 2-3 119 10.69
  Sec  A 2-3  86  6.92
x Liv  B 2-3 266 17.50
  SHP  B 2-2 136 12.08
  Mill C 1-3 130 12.50
Playoff Seeding: Fewest losses, then PPB

Code: Select all

PS Team.. W-L PPG Pts/B
1  Hunt A 5-0 495 21.87
2  BCA  A 4-0 471 20.83
3  Liv  A 5-0 385 19.22
4  Liv  C 4-0 203 11.94
-----------------------
5  SHP  A 4-1 321 20.38
6  Mill A 4-1 274 18.57
7  Rann A 4-1 267 16.20
8  Chat   3-1 266 15.95
9  BCA  B 4-1 219 15.58
10 MAST   4-1 244 13.65
-----------------------
11 Mill B 2-2 236 17.94
12 BCA  C 2-2 153 12.96
13 PCat A 2-2 140 11.48
14 JFK    3-2 139 10.86
15 Rann B 3-2  94  7.04
-----------------------
16 Liv  B 2-3 266 17.50
Top 10 individuals

Code: Select all

 # Player   Team    G 15 10 -5 Pts PPG
1 Bobby    MAST    5  3 38  6 395 79.0
2 Tim      Liv-A   5  9 21  6 315 63.0
3 Jimmy    SHP-A   5  8 22  9 295 59.0
4 Ice Cube Hunt-A  5 14 10 10 260 52.0
5 Elmo     BCA-A   4  5 13  0 205 51.3
6 Roey     Ranney  5  6 17  1 255 51.0
7 Govind   Liv-A   5  8 14  3 245 49.0
8 Cam      Chatham 4  1 20  4 195 48.8
9 Big Bird BCA-A   4  2 16  0 190 47.5
10 Dr. Dre Hunt-A  5 11  7  1 230 46.0
Box Score for the final (moderately cool observation: ALL EIGHT players in the final had a power)

Code: Select all

Paul / EZ-E      1-3-0 45
Lily / Ice Cube  3-3-1 70
York / Dr. Dre   1-1-0 25
Zihan/ MC Orange 1-0-0 15
Tossup Total...  6-7-1 155
Bonus Total.... 13 for 300 (23.08/b)
Grand Total.... HUNTER 455
----------------
Grand Total.... Bergen 205
Bonus Total....  7 for 120 (17.14/b)
Tossup Total...  4-3-1  85
Ian   / Elmo     1-1-1 20
Chris / Grover   1-0-0 15
Jay   / Big Bird 1-2-0 35
Steph / Oscar    1-0-0 15
If you need any of the team name abbreviations clarified, just ask.
Jon Pinyan
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Stat director for: NSC '13-'15, '17; ACF '14, '17, '19; NHBB '13-'15; NASAT '11

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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by Golran »

Stats were already available on NAQT's website at http://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament-te ... nt_id=3234

Sorry you went through the extra work typing them up
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Re: BATE Competition 3/20/10

Post by jonpin »

Oh, erm... well, at least now you can see we weren't kidding when we said how unbalanced the brackets were.
Jon Pinyan
Coach, Bergen County Academies (NJ); former player for BCA (2000-03) and WUSTL (2003-07)
HSQB forum mod, PACE member
Stat director for: NSC '13-'15, '17; ACF '14, '17, '19; NHBB '13-'15; NASAT '11

"A [...] wizard who controls the weather" - Jerry Vinokurov

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