Kickoffs

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
User avatar
Matt Weiner
Sin
Posts: 8411
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Matt Weiner » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:24 pm

Hey, all people who are not board staffers can stop telling each other how to post or meta-arguing over the propriety of posts now.
Matt Weiner
Founder of hsquizbowl.org

User avatar
BGSO
Tidus
Posts: 685
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: Champaign-Urbana and Arlington heights IL
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by BGSO » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:28 pm

Huang wrote:Problem is that the "comparisons" made are useless.

How so? Last time I checked "Illinois Comparisons and Discussion" could imply discussion on how Illinois teams play against each other.
David Garb-
Buffalo Grove High School '09
UIUC-'13

Former member of the most dysfunctional scholastic bowl team in Illinois.
(11:23:30 PM) garb: Wait, are you talking about the porn or the reeses?

User avatar
Charley Pride
Rikku
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Charley Pride » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:28 pm

Journey to the Planets wrote: It's not the solo part: there are plenty of great singles tournaments. The questions are just poorly written, as anyone who looks at them can see.

What are you talking about? I'm pretty sure the biggest positive coming out of solo this year was that they were generally well written. Now you're just throwing poop without knowing what you're talking about.

Journey to the Planets wrote: Something dumb about a circle jerk.
The thread, as the title suggests, is a discussion in the context of Illinois. Furthermore, you can find several discussions about how much Illinois teams still have to make up before they are national contenders. The highest praise of Auburn, for example, is always handicapped by a reminder that we can only be truly impressive if we not only excel in the land of Lincoln, but also on the national scale, consistently.

It's not so much us telling Matt we're already good in response to his suggestions. His comments come off as condescension of the worst type, as it not only criticizes the remarkable progress we've made, but it also ignores the efforts already being made to improve. He's telling us we're decent but not that great that we're wallowing in our mediocrity, refusing to see the light. We're not idiots. We know what we need to do. You sound like the typical newcomer to the elite group who immediately starts dumping on the group just below. We've seen it Illinois before. It's annoying, and it's not an endearing thing to do at all.

If you're going to be blunt, I'm going to be blunt. Matt (and now Sandy) is exuding an arrogance of the most unbecoming variety: it's unwarranted arrogance. Your team is really really good, we know. But I don't think you've yet earned the right to talk down to a group of teams that, for better or worse, do see themselves as something of a unit. We have a long way to go before we're as good as we need to be. Stop telling us what we already know.

EDIT: Close brackets. COHERENCE ROCKS
Zahed Haseeb

Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1933
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by the return of AHAN » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:41 pm

Huang wrote:I counted at least 5 times where the initial post claimed "X team from Illinois is good." So Matt is not completely ridiculous for claiming that this thread (and other past Illinois threads) of being essentially circle-jerks.
Uh huh. You see, if you look at near the top of the window you see;
Board Index < High School Quizbowl < National and Regional Comparisons and Discussions < Illinois Comparisons and Discussion

So, excuse the heck out of Jonah for not bowing to DC by prefacing every compliment to some team with "They're no Charter or Dorman, but..." This is a place where Illinois teams come to compare what's going on, you know, in ILLINOIS. If you're not from here, you have no idea of the inertia we're up against. Matt and Sandy, if you have some magic wand to change the opinions of coaches whose OWN players say, "Are we done with NAQT this year? There's not enough math and science, " please wave that wand and bend the world to your ways. While you're at it, can you maybe loan it to the POTUS?

EDIT: Beaten by Garb and Haseeb to the ILLINOIS COMPARISONS discussion. oh well.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Huang
Rikku
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:29 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Huang » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:44 pm

Woody Paige wrote: If you're not from here, you have no idea of the inertia we're up against. Matt and Sandy, if you have some magic wand to change the opinions of coaches whose OWN players say, "Are we done with NAQT this year? There's not enough math and science, " please wave that wand and bend the world to your ways. While you're at it, can you maybe loan it to the POTUS?
You act as if Kentucky isn't in the same position. I'm also pretty sure if I posted in such a manner in the Kentucky thread; I would be blasted.
Sandy

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1933
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by the return of AHAN » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:48 pm

Huang wrote: You act as if Kentucky isn't in the same position. I'm also pretty sure if I posted in such a manner in the Kentucky thread; I would be blasted.
Which part? That x team from Kentucky is good? Or where you start dumping on every Kentucky team for not being up to a national championship standard?
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Huang
Rikku
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:29 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Huang » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:51 pm

Woody Paige wrote:That x team from Kentucky is good?
Yes
Woody Paige wrote:Or where you start dumping on every Kentucky team for not being up to a national championship standard?
Because pointing out how hilarious a state thread is equals dumping on every team in that state. Right.

Matt's tone may have been harsh, but he brought up legitimate points that seem to have been ignored because people's feelings got, understandably, hurt.
Sandy

gyre and gimble
Tidus
Posts: 719
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:45 am

Re: Kickoffs

Post by gyre and gimble » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:55 pm

Journey to the Planets wrote:
Macho Man for Expediency wrote:
Journey to the Planets wrote:In that case, I was just encouraging them to keep reaching out
That's the partial purpose of this thread, and quite frankly, it's working.

So...what was the point of your posts in here, again?


The point of my posts is that you guys are too complacent. You're satisfied with being pretty good. You're okay with running decent tournaments with a lot of flaws, and you applaud the winners of bad formats like IHSA. You treat yourselves like an autonomous region, and every time you play the top teams from other areas, you lose.

Get better.

Now, as you wish, I'm out of here.
Hey, isn't that just what you think? Isn't that your interpretation of this subforum, without your ever having been to Illinois?
Well guess what, I haven't seen much of Illinois quizbowl either apart from playing New Trier and Auburn at HSNCT, and I don't see any of the complacency or circle-jerking or whatever the F you think is going on here.
Huang wrote:
AlphaQuizBowler wrote: Heaven forbid people compare teams in a comparisons forum!
Problem is that the "comparisons" made are useless.
AlphaQuizBowler wrote: That's not even what really happened, but ignoring that, don't you find this just a little bit patronizing?
No.
Oh hey, great response. Do you think "No" is going to cut it? But obviously Illinois people think it is condescending, and I think it's a lot more accurate to label something as condescending when you view it from the receiving end. And legitimate criticism?!?!?! Matt's points are legitimate, but the criticism part isn't. The Illinois people have been telling Matt to stop telling them stuff they already know, and are working on to fix. You apparently think that they are just ignoring what Matt is saying, and maybe what he is saying is slightly different from what they have been doing, but quite frankly, there isn't much of a difference and Illinois is doing great in improving, according to the loads of evidence people like Donald Taylor have been providing. So guess what? You're the one who's ignoring valid arguments and points, and continually trying to stuff the same arguments down people's throats without responding to what they think.
Matt Weiner wrote:Hey, all people who are not board staffers can stop telling each other how to post or meta-arguing over the propriety of posts now.
Ok, I saw this a little later, and I'm not sure if my post violates this or not, and if it does, ban me for a few days, delete the post, or whatever. I'm sorry, but people's behavior on this forum was just really pissing me off and I felt the need to tell them exactly what they were doing that was insulting the entire state of Illinois.


Matt and Sandy, I had a lot of respect for you guys, despite never having seen or met you because apparently you're really good at quizbowl, great leaders in your respective quizbowl communities, and smart people to boot. Now I don't care; you're being arrogant and rude.


Finally, I didn't mean to get involved. I live in San Diego and have nothing to do with Illinois or DC or Kentucky or whatever. But some things just fire me up a bit, I guess.

And props to William Horton for trying to point all this out.
Stephen Liu
Torrey Pines '10
Harvard '14
Stanford '17

User avatar
JackGlerum
Tidus
Posts: 660
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:20 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by JackGlerum » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:59 pm

I come back from dinner, and look what’s happened!

Why the crude “circle-jerk” analogy keeps coming up in this sort of thread is beyond me, but there certainly is a significant amount of insular “we’re awesome” statements that go on in Illinois and in Illinois threads; Matt and Sandy are correct in that respect. I did it when I was new, and people still do it. I hope we can look past that, even if it is annoying.

Craig’s post got lost amidst a bunch of caps lock and “you suck” stuff, but it’s the best post in here because it gets to the heart of the problem. Teams don’t have motivation to play the stuff we play, because they care about different goals, namely IHSA. It is my view that the only way we’ll achieve change (that is, amongst the non-good tournament attendees… the vast majority of teams in the state) is by changing the state series. I also think that changing the IHSA is really, really hard. I won’t say futile, but it’s close. Hence, my stance of general satisfaction I stated earlier. There are many good tournaments, just look at the link Donald provided. We have progressed, and are progressing.

User avatar
Huang
Rikku
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:29 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Huang » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:09 pm

gyre and gimble wrote: Do you think "No" is going to cut it?
He simply asked me for my opinion and I replied no.
gyre and gimble wrote:You're the one who's ignoring valid arguments and points, and continually trying to stuff the same arguments down people's throats without responding to what they think.
Well, clearly we disagree as to the degree in which Illinois is improving towards good quizbowl. I don't see it as much improvement as someone who plays quizbowl in Kentucky. I won't claim people aren't honestly trying, but we're arguing from different assumptions (the level of progress made by Illinois). If that's "arrogant" and "rude" of me to think, then so be it I guess.
Sandy

David Riley
Auron
Posts: 1428
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:27 am
Location: Morton Grove, IL

Re: Kickoffs

Post by David Riley » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:18 pm

Matt and Sandy, if you saw what passed for questions in Illinois when I started coaching (1993) you would think we are now the creme de la creme de la creme.

Yes, there are people who are complacent but there are many of us who are trying our best to improve things. Admittedly, progress appears to be slow because you guys are students for four years tops, and bureaucratic inertia takes a lot longer to change.

Then, as several others have pointed out, our administrations would not permit us to drop out of IHSA, and for better or worse, if IHSA did pull their support, many teams--even the advocates of good quiz bowl--would see their programs fold.

We've come a long way in 17 years. I, too, get frustrated at the inertia and the lack of (the speed of) progress, but believe it or not, many of us are doing our best given what we are able to do.
David Riley
Coach Emeritus, Loyola Academy, Wilmette, Illinois, 1993-2010
Steering Committee, IHSSBCA, 1996 -
Member, PACE, 2012 -

"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"

Dan-Don
Yuna
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:05 pm
Location: Evanston
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Dan-Don » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:20 pm

Like Silent Jeff, I came from Saint Viator, a team that broke onto to the good quizbowl scene last year. Our success had nothing to do with the elite teams standing over us, screaming, "You will like good quizbowl! RAWR!" The elite teams need to support the fledgling teams (who are trying to break into or are ignorant of good quizbowl), not "scare them straight." The fact that we term them "elite" teams is indicative of a problem, but, like I said, they are supportive for the most part. Compromises need to be made within the parameters of IHSA State, and Masonic State, and other crappy IHSA-format tourneys. Heck, if it weren't for Fremd Varsity last year, I would have never been angry enough to discover good quizbowl. Thanks, Mr. Palmer!



EDIT: coherence, and concerning NSC: What's the big deal with none of the IL teams making the top bracket? I fail to see what this has to do with getting bad teams interested in good quizbowl or even "Kickoffs" (as the thread title would suggest)
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15269
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Kickoffs

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:22 pm

CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE THREAD
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

gyre and gimble
Tidus
Posts: 719
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:45 am

Re: Kickoffs

Post by gyre and gimble » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:23 pm

Huang wrote:
gyre and gimble wrote: Do you think "No" is going to cut it?
He simply asked me for my opinion and I replied no.
gyre and gimble wrote:You're the one who's ignoring valid arguments and points, and continually trying to stuff the same arguments down people's throats without responding to what they think.
Well, clearly we disagree as to the degree in which Illinois is improving towards good quizbowl. I don't see it as much improvement as someone who plays quizbowl in Kentucky. I won't claim people aren't honestly trying, but we're arguing from different assumptions (the level of progress made by Illinois). If that's "arrogant" and "rude" of me to think, then so be it I guess.
First, I don't think he was merely asking for your opinion. I thought he was trying to say in a passive and respectful way that you were being patronizing, and because you didn't catch that the first time, I wanted to point it out. If I'm wrong, a thousand apologies, I'm being an idiot.

Second, sorry for confusing your ideas with Matt's. The truth is that when I made my last post I didn't see any of your subsequent posts, so I just assumed that you were agreeing with everything Matt said. I'm neither dismissing or accepting your arguments, or your view on Illinois quizbowl. So I hope you understand that your asserting the right to "think" about stuff and say whatever you thought on an online forum is not what I'm labeling as "arrogant" and "rude." Rather, I felt that the way you (or Matt, or you agreeing with Matt, or whatever) were ignoring what Illinois people were saying, calling this forum a circle-jerk, saying that this thread was laughable because people were ignoring what Matt was saying (which they weren't), saying that Illinois is too self-satisfied (which they aren't), and a lot of other errors in etiquette that you were either overlooking or ignoring---that's the stuff that was rude and arrogant.

I don't have any problem with you making your arguments, and I disagree with Zahed that you and Matt are being self-righteous elitists. Just be respectful and don't condescend.

I actually don't have anything to add to the discussion itself, so I'm not going to argue anymore. This post was made as a means of clarification, because apparently my words were not being interpreted correctly.
Stephen Liu
Torrey Pines '10
Harvard '14
Stanford '17

User avatar
Nine-Tenths Ideas
Auron
Posts: 1549
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:14 pm
Location: MD

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:24 pm

Posting here to get tempbanned as a reason for me to go to bed.
Isaac Hirsch
University of Maryland '14
Never Gonna Play Again

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15269
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Kickoffs

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:24 pm

IF FRED MAKES A KICKOFF PUN BEFORE TEMPBANNING EVERYONE WHO POSTED IN THIS THREAD AFTER http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 70#p162270 GO TO THE POST AFTER THIS NEXT ONE
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15269
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Kickoffs

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:25 pm

IF FRED MAKES A THANKSGIVING PUN GO TO THE NEXT POST WHERE HE BANS EVERYONE WHO POSTED AFTER http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 70#p162270
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15269
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Kickoffs

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:26 pm

OH CRAP YOU ALL BANNNNNNNNNNED

HAPPY THANKSGIVING KIDDOS

TURKEY IN THE STRAW CLUCK CLUCK CLUCK
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15269
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Kickoffs

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:32 pm

18 bans at once game on :cowboy:
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

User avatar
Captain Sinico
Auron
Posts: 2840
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: Champaign, Illinois

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Captain Sinico » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:52 am

I would just say to Matt and Sandy: what do you you think whom should do and why? Saying "Illinois isn't doing x" doesn't really mean much in the sense that it's not actionable: you're not really telling any individual or group actually capable of communication or action what you think they ought to do. Furthermore, statements like that are inflammatory since they're easily interpretable as (undue) criticism of everyone in the state.

MaS
Mike Sorice
Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
ACF
IHSSBCA
PACE

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1933
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by the return of AHAN » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:45 am

Thank you, Mike. Essentially trashing the hard work of David Reinstein, in particular, and what he's done to try to move things forward is completely uncalled for. Back to the topic...
So, Barrington HS is toying with the idea of entering the HSNCT given our qualification for it due to Kickoffs. Does anyone think qualification will spur the others (besides Loyola, Auburn, New Trier, BG?) to register for this? I've told our players directly that they have little hope of winning the whole thing (shoot, we can't even win our own conference), but they seem unphased about giving it a whirl.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Riley
Auron
Posts: 1428
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:27 am
Location: Morton Grove, IL

Re: Kickoffs

Post by David Riley » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:10 am

I think your team would have fun. As for the other teams, we plan to attend, and I would assume Auburn and New Trier would as well....I would imagine whether anyone else goes will depend upon finances and schedules (in our case, Christian and Will will miss part of HSNCT due to graduation).
David Riley
Coach Emeritus, Loyola Academy, Wilmette, Illinois, 1993-2010
Steering Committee, IHSSBCA, 1996 -
Member, PACE, 2012 -

"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"

User avatar
Dresden_The_BIG_JERK
Tidus
Posts: 709
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:56 am
Location: Lowell, IN
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:05 am

It's a phenomenal oppurtunity with the HSNCT being in Chicago. I hope a lot of the teams that qualified will take the time to look into it, funds permitting, because it could be a great catalyst for Illinois. These "middling" teams are the exact target audience we want to expose to great tournaments like that one.
BJ Houlding

Winnebago '04
Saint Joseph's College '08
IHSSBCA Certified Moderator

User avatar
Deviant Insider
Auron
Posts: 4614
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Deviant Insider » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:31 am

I also would encourage teams to go to HSNCT. A team like Barrington probably would end up in the general vicinity of .500, would use it as a good excuse to learn a lot in preparation, and would have a great time. Due to various situations at different schools, we'd be lucky to get as many schools as last year (9), but the number probably won't change too much.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

User avatar
Huang
Rikku
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:29 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Huang » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:53 pm

This is what I told Mike Sorice last night in terms of what Illinois could do (and he said I could go ahead and post it in the thread):

Illinois high school teams familiar with good quizbowl should actively point out the HSQB forums and the various resources on this website that would help a new team to get better. Similarly, identifying which coaches would be open to new ideas and working with those coaches on travel plans to good tournaments and on how to hold effective practices would be good things to do. I'm not sure how actively teams promote this website to teams at tournaments they attend. But due to the lack of of posters proclaiming, "I love IHSA," (something very unlike what happens in the Kentucky thread) I'm assuming it's not happening as much as it could. I know I've talked with various Kentucky teams on how to prepare for real quizbowl including duPont Manual and Grayson County (and even middle school coaches who contacted me for advice on how to prepare).

I think I also distinctly remember Matt mentioning "bad" tournaments being still attended by teams that should know better. Yes, less experienced teams look up to more experienced teams and it can be somewhat beneficial for them to attend these tournaments. But would it not send a even stronger message if teams that knew better didn't attend? This issue I don't care as much about as Matt (and admittedly I'm not too sure if this was explicitly stated or not in the thread).

I disagree that it was "uncalled for" of Matt to "trash" Scobowl Solo. It still contains math computation. The history clues used are still dubiously helpful and the science clues still seem rather non-uniquely identifying. Although the literature questions were decent this year.

Anyways, I get that certain people in the state are honestly trying their best to convert more teams to real quizbowl. I think Mr. Riley's positive attitude towards this effort is something Matt probably didn't think Illinois quizbowl people possessed and thus why he might have posted such harsh criticism. In any case, I've outlined something useful instead of just typing up a "Illinois isn't doing X" post again. If this is already happening, I guess I would suggest that more people do it (since the lack of posters loving IHSA seems to suggest not everyone from Illinois is being represented on this forum at least relatively to the Kentucky thread). Talking directly to other players during or after tournaments is where the real work gets done. I'm sometimes more excited to play a new Kentucky team than to play a good match with a top ranked team because it's another opportunity to solidly convert a team to real quizbowl by showing them why it's better than fake quizbowl. And I think it's perfectly alright if those new players don't seem "intellectually curious" (something a lot people seem to be hung up on). Most players want to win. So if you show them how (like pointing out the this website), they'll enjoy this game and maybe even develop that so coveted "intellectual curiosity."
Sandy

Dan-Don
Yuna
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:05 pm
Location: Evanston
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Dan-Don » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:22 pm

So what's going on with HSNCT qualification? Will all the teams eliminated in the Round of 16 qualify?
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT

User avatar
The King's Flight to the Scots
Auron
Posts: 1460
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:25 pm

Hey everyone,

I'd just like to apologize for my inflammatory posts last night. Although I started out with (mostly) good intentions, I lost my head, becoming so enveloped in the debate that I posted a number of angry, hurtful, and inappropriate comments. I hold to some of my points--for instance, that Solo should be reformed--but the way I conveyed those points last night was not the way anything should be communicated on a public internet forum. More importantly, it seems that coaches and players already understand the changes that need to be made and are currently working hard to effect them. Partially out of ignorance, partially out of hubris, I ignored the hard work and good intentions of Illinois' community and blew its flaws far out of proportion. However, there is one point on which I'd like to defend myself. I do not look down on the players from Illinois, many of whom work as hard or harder than I do to improve at this game. Looking back at my posts, I can see that I clearly gave off an air of extreme arrogance and unbearable condescension. This arrogant tone was only worsened by my status as a frequent competitor on the DC circuit, which I gave undue praise in my posts.

In posting this, I do not intend to elicit any replies, since I do not wish to start another fight. However, I recognize that I am not a board moderator, so I cannot tell anyone else how to post. If you feel that I am leaving something out, or that you can make this conversation more constructive by replying, please do so. However, know that I am avoiding conflict by staying out of this subforum for a period of time, so I will not be able to respond to you.

Contritely,
Matt Bollinger
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
Communications Officer, ACF

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Kickoffs

Post by jonah » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:34 pm

Huang wrote:Illinois high school teams familiar with good quizbowl should actively point out the HSQB forums and the various resources on this website that would help a new team to get better. Similarly, identifying which coaches would be open to new ideas and working with those coaches on travel plans to good tournaments and on how to hold effective practices would be good things to do. I'm not sure how actively teams promote this website to teams at tournaments they attend.
All of this is done. The forums are discussed at lunch at many of the tournaments I've been to, and not only among people who already post there. The IHSSBCA's website links here, and the boards have been mentioned in multiple newsletter articles. Reinstein has mentioned them to coaches (many of whom were proponents of bad quizbowl) in private email discussions, as have Matt and I and others. I know a bunch of people from Illinois (some in favor of good quizbowl, some in favor of bad, and some in between) who read without posting, and I have been told by at least two of them (both good quizbowl proponents, in fact) that the reason they don't post is because of posts like Matt's that attack Illinois teams with falsehoods, overgeneralities, and the like. Others, I believe, don't post simply because they know they'll be very deeply in the minority with their opinions. We can tell these people about the boards all we want, and we do, but we can't make them post.
Huang wrote:But due to the lack of of posters proclaiming, "I love IHSA," (something very unlike what happens in the Kentucky thread) I'm assuming it's not happening as much as it could. I know I've talked with various Kentucky teams on how to prepare for real quizbowl including duPont Manual and Grayson County (and even middle school coaches who contacted me for advice on how to prepare).
See above.
Huang wrote:I think I also distinctly remember Matt mentioning "bad" tournaments being still attended by teams that should know better. Yes, less experienced teams look up to more experienced teams and it can be somewhat beneficial for them to attend these tournaments. But would it not send a even stronger message if teams that knew better didn't attend? This issue I don't care as much about as Matt (and admittedly I'm not too sure if this was explicitly stated or not in the thread).
Putting aside the issue of the IHSA State Series and in most cases the Masonic tournament, which I am going to assume you understand why teams cannot get out of, what you propose is happening more and more, and I am in favor of it. It's not going to happen all at once, but it's getting very close, and closer every tournament. Right now I would say with complete confidence that there are more teams who are neutral or anti-good quizbowl but attend good quizbowl tournaments than good quizbowl teams attending bad tournaments.
Huang wrote:I disagree that it was "uncalled for" of Matt to "trash" Scobowl Solo. It still contains math computation. The history clues used are still dubiously helpful and the science clues still seem rather non-uniquely identifying. Although the literature questions were decent this year.
I remain opposed to it and have just volunteered myself to rectify about one-third of that problem. However, I would like more details on your criticisms of history and science, and I'm sure Reinstein would too. A new thread would probably be a better place for it. I know the questions from this year were a massive improvement over last year's, and that's because (among other things) some people constructively and detailedly criticized last year's set. I expect to continue helping Reinstein edit solo, and so if you post your critique here or send it to us privately, it will help both of us get better at what we do.

edit: Thanks for your apology, Matt.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
Deviant Insider
Auron
Posts: 4614
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Deviant Insider » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:27 pm

Thanks to Sandy and Matt for their recent comments. I just exchanged a few decent emails with Sandy, and he did point out a few legitimate problems with some of the questions from this year's Solo. (For the record, I agree with his criticisms of the lead-ins of the Saudi Arabia, Becquerel, and Heisenberg questions and was less impressed with his criticisms of the Peter the Great and Missouri Compromise questions. And I'll admit that significant flaws in three of the 16 noncomputational/language arts tossups in a round is significant.)

We in Illinois are trying to get better, and it's a bumpy road. Just like this thread.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1933
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by the return of AHAN » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:10 pm

Dan-Don wrote:So what's going on with HSNCT qualification? Will all the teams eliminated in the Round of 16 qualify?
According to an e-mail exchange I had with Jeff Hoppes, yes. 16 to qualify at once is a large amount, but because it's early in the season (thus there are plenty of openings in HSNCT right now) NAQT doesn't intend to "break" the 8-way tie for 9th.
The fact that a number of those qualifiers would probably qualify in the future anyway probably doesn't hurt (For example, the top 2 from the MSL will qualify; likely BG and Fremd).
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Important Bird Area
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 5503
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:33 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:03 am

Woody Paige wrote:
Dan-Don wrote:So what's going on with HSNCT qualification? Will all the teams eliminated in the Round of 16 qualify?
According to an e-mail exchange I had with Jeff Hoppes, yes.
Confirm.
HSNCT qualification rules wrote:In general, every team tied for a spot in the top 15% receives an invitation, though NAQT reserves the right to break ties reported by the host at its own discretion (and so award fewer berths).
Note the possibility that we may break such ties in the future (for example, in late spring when the field is nearly full).
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF

"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred

User avatar
Important Bird Area
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 5503
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:33 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:06 am

Oliver Ellsworth wrote:even if the IS set we played on Saturday was rather weak
As always, specific comments welcome via email. We would be happy to make IS #88 stronger for the next tournament that uses it.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF

"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred

User avatar
Charley Pride
Rikku
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Charley Pride » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:12 am

How do I contact you?

Edit: Nevermind.
Zahed Haseeb

Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1933
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by the return of AHAN » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:02 am

I don't have as much history dealing with IS sets as Zahed et al., but I thought this set was appropriate for a kickoff tournament where some teams are getting their first expsoure of the year (Didn't Buffalo Grove pitch a shutout on Plano?). If you feel this set was simply not as rigorous as previous IS sets, then I'll defer to your judgement.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Wackford Squeers
Wakka
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:07 pm
Location: Flatland

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Wackford Squeers » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:02 pm

Are we going to see the results of the polls taken at the various sites?
Ben Chametzky
University of Chicago, 2016
Carbondale Community High School, 2012
IHSSBCA High School Liaison 2011-2012

User avatar
Deviant Insider
Auron
Posts: 4614
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Deviant Insider » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:47 pm

It's my fault that you haven't seen them yet. There will be an article about them in the February newsletter, so there definitely will be raw results published for everybody before then. I never received anything from Carbondale or Sterling, and Wheaton North only polled coaches, so the results will be incomplete.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

User avatar
Deviant Insider
Auron
Posts: 4614
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Deviant Insider » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:01 am

Here are basic survey results. I will follow up in the next few days with some breakdowns. Remember that this was based on an IS Set played with rebounding bonuses. We used powers but not negs.

Site: 70 from Greenville, 113 from PORTA, 28 from Wheaton North (211 Total, but responses to other questions don't add up to 211 because of blanks)

Team Wins in first five matches: 27 0, 22 1, 6 2, 6 3, 55 4, 24 5

44 Coaches, 166 Students

Does your team play in a conference or league? 194 Yes, 11 No

Throughout the entire season, how many tournaments do you anticipate attending, besides the IHSA State Series and your conference/league? (Include this one.) 44 More than 7, 21 6-7, 66 4-5, 63 2-3, 3 1

Prior to today, how frequently had you personally played in or coached in a tournament using bonus questions that are one part at a time as opposed to the standard IHSA format? 22 Many times, 89 Once or Twice, 95 Never

Prior to today, how frequently had you personally played in or coached for a tournament using NAQT questions? Please exclude league play on NAQT's IHSA-format questions. Tournaments in Illinois that used NAQT questions in 2008-09 include Northwestern Wildcat, The Decemberist, Naperville Central, Winnebago, Springfield, and NAQT State. 21 Many times, 81 Once or Twice, 101 Never

What did you think of the difficulty of today's questions? 3 Too Easy, 125 OK, 72 Too Difficult

Do you prefer longer tossups with many clues or shorter tossups with few clues? Why? 86 Pyramidal, 89 Short

Do you prefer the IHSA bonus format or the bonus format used today? Why? 106 IHSA, 72 Today

Do you prefer the approximately 15% computation found in IHSA format, the 7% amount used today, or no computation at all? Why? 104 15%, 52 7%, 38 0%


The last three questions were asked in a free response format, while the ones before them were multiple choice. I do not plan to write up the comments.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Kickoffs

Post by jonah » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:05 am

Shcool wrote:The last three questions were asked in a free response format, while the ones before them were multiple choice. I do not plan to write up the comments.
If you're willing to give me the surveys or copies thereof (or give them to Yang to give me on Saturday, assuming he's the one going), I am willing to type and post the comments.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

Dan-Don
Yuna
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:05 pm
Location: Evanston
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Dan-Don » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:17 am

Shcool wrote:Do you prefer longer tossups with many clues or shorter tossups with few clues? Why? 86 Pyramidal, 89 Short

Do you prefer the IHSA bonus format or the bonus format used today? Why? 106 IHSA, 72 Today

Do you prefer the approximately 15% computation found in IHSA format, the 7% amount used today, or no computation at all? Why? 104 15%, 52 7%, 38 0%
Yikes. I'd be curious to see just the results from WN.
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1933
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by the return of AHAN » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:30 am

Is anyone really surprised by this? I'm still struggling to make my own players buy in. Think about it. My juniors, to give an example, are in their 6th year of playing, and much of that was on short, hosey questions.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Kickoffs

Post by jonah » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:35 am

Woody Paige wrote:Is anyone really surprised by this? I'm still struggling to make my own players buy in. Think about it. My juniors, to give an example, are in their 6th year of playing, and much of that was on short, hosey questions.
Actually, I'm moderately surprised that they were so close, especially since the site most likely to vote for good quizbowl (Wheaton North) didn't survey players.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
CometCoach72
Wakka
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:07 pm
Location: Southern IL

Re: Kickoffs

Post by CometCoach72 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:12 pm

Woody Paige wrote:Is anyone really surprised by this? I'm still struggling to make my own players buy in. Think about it. My juniors, to give an example, are in their 6th year of playing, and much of that was on short, hosey questions.

It's so funny. My students still prefer the "short hosey questions" yet have their best success on the pyramidal style.
Jay Winter
Greenville HS (IL) Scholastic Bowl Coach and Chief UN Translator for Math
Decatur MacArthur Class of 1990 - Illinois State Class of 1994 - MS Ed SIU Edwardsville 2010
Harley-Davidson owner since 2009
Fan of Good Questions

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Kickoffs

Post by jonah » Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:52 pm

CometCoach72 wrote:
Woody Paige wrote:Is anyone really surprised by this? I'm still struggling to make my own players buy in. Think about it. My juniors, to give an example, are in their 6th year of playing, and much of that was on short, hosey questions.
It's so funny. My students still prefer the "short hosey questions" yet have their best success on the pyramidal style.
Perhaps this is a dumb question, but have you explained the theory behind pyramidal questions to them? No one ever did to me while I was in high school, although I had a vague intuitive sense of what good questions were, and it would've helped.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1933
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by the return of AHAN » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:02 pm

jonah wrote:
CometCoach72 wrote:
Woody Paige wrote:Is anyone really surprised by this? I'm still struggling to make my own players buy in. Think about it. My juniors, to give an example, are in their 6th year of playing, and much of that was on short, hosey questions.
It's so funny. My students still prefer the "short hosey questions" yet have their best success on the pyramidal style.
Perhaps this is a dumb question, but have you explained the theory behind pyramidal questions to them? No one ever did to me while I was in high school, although I had a vague intuitive sense of what good questions were, and it would've helped.
Yes, and Aakash channeled Kyle Haddad-Fonda in the "Buzzering" thread by saying something to the effect of "Don't waste my time with all of this stuff I don't know, just give me the last line so I can race to the buzzer." :sad: My explanations and rationalizations seem to fall on deaf ears. But they DO adore it when they know an answer on an early clue.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Wackford Squeers
Wakka
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:07 pm
Location: Flatland

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Wackford Squeers » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:43 am

We're bringing our surveys to D&G. The results varied, but were mostly pretty disheartening.
Ben Chametzky
University of Chicago, 2016
Carbondale Community High School, 2012
IHSSBCA High School Liaison 2011-2012

David Riley
Auron
Posts: 1428
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:27 am
Location: Morton Grove, IL

Re: Kickoffs

Post by David Riley » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:40 am

ER, Ben.....send me an email, we may have a problem. driley@loy.org
David Riley
Coach Emeritus, Loyola Academy, Wilmette, Illinois, 1993-2010
Steering Committee, IHSSBCA, 1996 -
Member, PACE, 2012 -

"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Kickoffs

Post by jonah » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:31 pm

Kickoff was conducted at five sites around the state on IS-88, with untimed 20-question rounds. I counted a total of 254 surveys, but not all of them answered all questions. Surveys that contained exclusively irrelevant answers were ignored.

The questions were as follows:
  • Team name (optional)
  • Site (Carbondale, Greenville, PORTA, Sterling, Wheaton North)
  • Record thus far today
  • Are you a coach or a student? (coach, student)
  • Does your team play in a conference or a league? (yes, no)
  • Throughout the entire season, how many tournaments do you anticipate attending, besides the IHSA State Series and your conference/league? Include this one. (more than 7, 6-7, 4-5, 2-3, 1)
  • Prior to today, how frequently had you personally played in or coached in a tournament using bonus questions that are one part at a time as opposed to the standard IHSA format? (many times, once or twice, never)
  • Prior to today, how frequently had you personally played in or coached for a tournament using NAQT questions? Please exclude league play on NAQT's IHSA-format questions. Tournaments in Illinois that used NAQT questions in 2008-09 include Northwestern Wildcat, The Decemberist, Naperville Central, Winnebago, Springfield, and NAQT State. (many times, once or twice, never)
  • What did you think of the difficulty of today's questions? (too easy, OK, too difficult)
  • Do you prefer longer tossups with many clues or shorter tossups with few clues? Why?
  • Do you prefer the IHSA bonus format or the bonus format used today? Why? (Kickoffs used bonuses from an IS set, rebounding thusly: the controlling team has 10 seconds total, with the moderator prompting for an answer after 7 seconds; if they got the part wrong, it rebounded to the noncontrolling team, who had three further seconds to confer.)
  • Do you prefer the approximately 15% computation found in IHSA format, the 7% amount used today, or no computation at all? Why?
  • Any additional comments?
When answers to the question about computation of the form "I am/my team is good/bad at math"/"I like/dislike math"/"Math is easy/hard"/etc. are discounted and only those surveys that made a preference clear are counted, 169 surveys remain. There are 28 votes for 0% computation, 56 for 7%, 84 for 15%, and 1 for (0% or 7%). Therefore 50.3% of those surveys voted for a reduction in computation from the IHSA distribution of 15%.
  • Coaches only, personal ballots ignored as above: 1 vote for 0%, 18 for 7%, 22 for 15%, 1 for (0% or 7%). Therefore among coaches, 47.6% vote for a reduction in computation from the IHSA distribution.
  • Players only, personal ballots ignored as above: 27 for 0%, 38 for 7%, 61 for 15%. Therefore among players, 51.6% vote for a reduction in computation from the IHSA distribution.
  • Continuing to ignore personal answers as explained, the most frequently cited reasons for preferring 0% computation were that computation is not enjoyable, the time provided being insufficient (even when it is 30 seconds), and the disruption of the flow of the game when computational questions occur.
  • Continuing to ignore personal answers as explained, the only frequently cited reason for preferring 7% comptuation was a better perceived balance among categories.
  • Continuing to ignore personal answers as explained, the most frequently cited reasons for preferring 15% computation were the claim that math is educationally important, wanting to provide the opportunity for students who are good at computation, and the prevalence of computation in the curriculum.
Among surveys that indicated a preference on bonus format, there were 114 votes for IHSA format and 101 votes for the format used for Kickoffs. Therefore 47.0% of those surveys indicated a preference for the bonus format used at Kickoffs (closer to ACF format, but with bouncebacks and increased time).
  • Coaches only: 19 IHSA, 24 today. Therefore among coaches, 55.8% prefer the format used at Kickoff.
  • Players only: 95 IHSA, 77 today. Therefore among players, 44.8% prefer the format used at Kickoff.
  • The most frequently cited reasons for preferring IHSA format were better timing, better opportunities for conferral/teamwork, and familiarity.
  • The most frequently cited reasons for preferring the format used at Kickoff were faster-moving matches, the claim that that format is more exciting, the easiness of focusing on individual questions, the allowance for anyone to answer, and the chance to score more points.
It is worth noting that the site with the most teams, Wheaton North, did not collect any responses from players. It is also worth noting that the Sterling site did not administer the survey at all.

The full results are available at http://www.ihssbca.org/statistics/2009_ ... survey.xls. There are some comments about how I represented data in the header row. Let me know if you have any more questions or would like any further analyses done.

edited slightly for coherence
Last edited by jonah on Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
Down and out in Quintana Roo
Auron
Posts: 2907
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Camden, DE
Contact:

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:08 pm

jonah wrote:It is worth noting that the site with the most teams, Wheaton North, did not collect any responses from players. It is also worth noting that the Sterling site did not administer the survey at all.
Do you happen to know why either one of these things occurred?
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Kickoffs

Post by jonah » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:10 pm

Dr. Isaac Yankem, DDS wrote:
jonah wrote:It is worth noting that the site with the most teams, Wheaton North, did not collect any responses from players. It is also worth noting that the Sterling site did not administer the survey at all.
Do you happen to know why either one of these things occurred?
No. At our annual meeting next month, I will ask the hosts of both sites; there's nothing to be done about it now, so there's no urgency such that I should email them.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

Monk
Lulu
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:25 pm

Re: Kickoffs

Post by Monk » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:59 pm

As far as I know, no CCHS player was surveyed either, even though all the other teams that attended the Carbondale kickoff were. I certainly never filled out a survey.
J. L. Monk
CCHS Captain '09-'10

Locked