Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Sat May 15, 2010 4:22 pm

jdeliverer wrote:Whoa... is this a one-game final?
Dan-Don wrote:Liveblogging Game 1 of the advantaged final (advantage DCD over Manual) at this. After some EDITEDEDITEDEDITEDembarrassingly went dead, it is 135-20 Manual.
Reading is an important skill in quizbowl.
Pat Freeburn wrote:I've been informed that another tournament may be using this set at the same time so I'll be doing some editing.
My apologies. I'll keep it even vague-er.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Frater Taciturnus » Sat May 15, 2010 4:24 pm

Dan-Don wrote:
jdeliverer wrote:Whoa... is this a one-game final?
Dan-Don wrote:Liveblogging Game 1 of the advantaged final (advantage DCD over Manual) at this. After some EDITEDEDITEDEDITEDembarrassingly went dead, it is 135-20 Manual.
Reading is an important skill in quizbowl.
Pat Freeburn wrote:I've been informed that another tournament may be using this set at the same time so I'll be doing some editing.
My apologies. I'll keep it even vague-er.
If you can get to IRC you can give all the gory details there.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by The Time Keeper » Sat May 15, 2010 4:25 pm

I have to be honest, I'm enjoying all the ctrl+v-ing I've been doing.

EDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITEDEDITED
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Sat May 15, 2010 4:28 pm

Game 1 beginning. Manual negs. OH NOES! Nolan knew it off the giveaway, but no one from DCD did.

Manual gets a FIFTEEEEN (not really...but I'm designating it as such). 30s the bonus.

Manual negs with the wrong dude. Neil picks it up and is working with his teammates on a trash bonus. 20.

Neil gets a 10...and a subsequent 20.

Neil negs. Manual struggles but has it. Bagels a bonus that's all over the place

Manual 55, DCD 55
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Sat May 15, 2010 4:31 pm

Manual gets a 10 and 20.

Neil gets a 10. 20s some current events.

Neil powers a "stupid" (--Nolan) tossup. 20s the bonus.

Timeout Manual.


Manual 75, DCD 120.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Sat May 15, 2010 4:31 pm

Blessman just found I'm liveblogging. He's loving it!! Hi Mr. Blessman! :grin: ("That's really cute" --Nolan)
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Sat May 15, 2010 4:37 pm

Yet another Manual neg. DCD's gonna wrangle with this one...they emerge with 10 after some NAQT all-or-nothingness.

Whoa! Visual Arts again!!! 2 packets in a row!!! But it's transparent for Manual. They earn some points on the bonus....I can't tell how many because Nolan was telling me I can't put categories in this liveblog. I think he's mistaken.

Neil 10s and 30s.

Manual negs after a prompt on a trash tossup. But they should have known what it was at the points when they buzzed. DCD picks it up...Neil wonders, in response to a bonus part, "What did he say???" He still gets 20.

Blessman starts the second half but time is out.

Manual 105, DCD 210. I keep getting this score wrong. The Manual kids know my name already. Jonah helps me out with the score and adds that Nolan's side-comments have been accurate. Nolan just tried to explain "The Game" to me...I'm lost.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Sat May 15, 2010 4:44 pm

Neil powers the first tossup of the second half. 30 pts

Neil gets the next TU is like 5 words. It's more VisArts...what is happening?? Another 30.

Neil buzzes in for power for something. But has "no answer." He is negged. Manual picks it up. More of my favorite subcategory! They only get 20 sadly.

Neil negs, Manual comes in immediately...but no dice on the power vulch...it's just a regular vulch. 30.

Manual wins a buzzer race on a lit giveaway. 20.

Geography....there we go, NAQT. Neil negs. Manual hesitates for a few seconds, but picks it up. Neil is signaling to his coach to call a timeout right after this. Manual is rushing through the bonus....and it's 30 on a repeated clue (according to Nolan).

Timeout DCD. 6 questions left. Just under 5:00 left. No timeouts left. But Jonah didn't mark Manual's timeout. Oh well.

Manual 245, DCD 285
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Sat May 15, 2010 4:50 pm

Neils powers some science. Common link religion bonus yields 20.

Neil comes in surprisingly late on some history. 30.

Manual powers lit on what I think might be a slightly misplaced clue. 10 on the bonus. Ouch. Manual down 85 (?)

Manual negs some trash. Neil's got it. 20.

2 TUs left.

Manual needed to guess on a science tossup. So they did. But they neg. Neil's putting it away on a lit bonus. 20.

Last tossup.

Manual negs on accident. I'm sorry guys :( Neil power vulches successfully. Insult to injury, man. 20.

FINAL SCORE: Manual 255, DCD 455

DCD WINS THE 2010 MIDWEST CHAMPIONSHIP AND A LARGE AMPHORA-LOOKING TROPHY. CONGRATULATIONS!!!
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat May 15, 2010 5:00 pm

Dan-Don wrote:Manual negs on accident. I'm sorry guys :( Neil power vulches successfully. Insult to injury, man. 20.
Wow, this dude's out for blood... there are some East Coast teams that would be pretty ticked off by that.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sat May 15, 2010 5:11 pm

That's stupid. It's a game, and there's a strategy, and he took a risk that paid off.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Auroni » Sat May 15, 2010 5:12 pm

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:
Dan-Don wrote:Manual negs on accident. I'm sorry guys :( Neil power vulches successfully. Insult to injury, man. 20.
Wow, this dude's out for blood... there are some East Coast teams that would be pretty ticked off by that.
Maybe he wanted to make sure that more tossup-bonus cycles were finished.

wait, it was the last tossup. never mind. but you could power vulch legitimately for such a reason.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sat May 15, 2010 5:17 pm

Yeah, power-vulching is 100% right if the extra five or ten points will help you more than the decrease in probability that you're right will hurt you. Seeing as most mid-Atlantic teams should be pretty used to taking big losses to Maggie Walker or whatever, I wouldn't imagine many would be too upset by the ten point greater margin of victory.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat May 15, 2010 5:26 pm

It's just, like, it was the last tossup... completely unnecessary.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sat May 15, 2010 5:35 pm

Shut up.

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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Unicolored Jay » Sat May 15, 2010 5:46 pm

I guess you can do it just to see whether you know it at this one clue or not.

I think it's not really a bad thing if you're doing it in timed matches (I did it once two years ago at the HSNCT). I don't know if in this case, it was necessarily a good thing, but while condoned by some people, it's just something that happens.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by The Time Keeper » Sat May 15, 2010 5:49 pm

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:It's just, like, it was the last tossup... completely unnecessary.
So is pretending you don't know something when you do and can earn extra points because of it.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Edward Powers » Sat May 15, 2010 5:58 pm

DCDS defeated Manual for the Championship, but how did the other teams in this strong field perform? Curious here in Jersey.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sat May 15, 2010 6:35 pm

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:It's just, like, it was the last tossup... completely unnecessary.
Equally unnecessary is continuing to play the match after you've mathematically clinched it. In fact, I am offended that DCDS didn't just leave the room after tossup 12 or 13 or whatever against DCC.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Strongside » Sat May 15, 2010 7:20 pm

Carangoides ciliarius wrote: Wow, this dude's out for blood...
This is how quiz bowl should be played (figuratively not literally).
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! » Sat May 15, 2010 10:19 pm

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:
Dan-Don wrote:Manual negs on accident. I'm sorry guys :( Neil power vulches successfully. Insult to injury, man. 20.
Wow, this dude's out for blood... there are some East Coast teams that would be pretty ticked off by that.
Plus, assuming you're not just gonna let the tossup go dead, this actually speeds up the rest of the match (and if you get it wrong, you're just ending it earlier) so I guess in a way this could be considered polite. Plus, considering all the things that are in threads about blowouts when you should always try your hardest throughout the entire game because it's insulting not to, this statement seems very contradictory/hypocritical.

EDIT: spellinz
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Sat May 15, 2010 10:39 pm

If anyone is looking for stats for this tournament, I believe the statswoman was unfamiliar with SQBS and may not know how to post the stats to the internet without the help of Coach Blessman, who is in Chicago presently. And I don't think she has an HSQB account either.

If any teams found a pair of iPhone earphones, the earphones belong to me. Let me know.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by SoLegit12 » Sun May 16, 2010 8:46 am

On behalf of Manual, I would like to congratulate DCDS for a great victory. Your ranking is well deserved, and we look forward to playing you at Nationals.
I'd also like to thank Mr. Blessman, who runs great and punctual tournaments. We are also clearing our schedules next year (as long as it's after AP testing) to come back next year to the Midwest Championship.

Standings were:

DCDS
duPont Manual
Dunbar
TIE: DCC A, DCC B, Loyola (I forgot the ties after this, but there were some)
Culver
Harrison B
Dan-Don
St. Joe's
Harrison A
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by SoLegit12 » Sun May 16, 2010 10:58 am

Huang wrote:Any missing DCC people?
no
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Unicolored Jay » Sun May 16, 2010 11:36 am

Was anyone from Dunbar missing? Just curious.

Edit: Fail reading
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by SoLegit12 » Sun May 16, 2010 11:50 am

Judy Sucks a Lemon for Breakfast wrote:Was anyone from Dunbar missing? Just curious.
1; Sandy
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Huang » Sun May 16, 2010 12:16 pm

SoLegit12 wrote:
Judy Sucks a Lemon for Breakfast wrote:Was anyone from Dunbar missing? Just curious.
1; Sandy
Several people were missing such as Brian, Matt, Ping, Victor, etc.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by SoLegit12 » Sun May 16, 2010 12:19 pm

Huang wrote:
SoLegit12 wrote:
Judy Sucks a Lemon for Breakfast wrote:Was anyone from Dunbar missing? Just curious.
1; Sandy
Several people were missing such as Brian, Matt, Ping, Victor, etc.
It seems the Dunbar lineup is extremely fluid.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Huang » Sun May 16, 2010 12:26 pm

SoLegit12 wrote:
Huang wrote:
SoLegit12 wrote:
Judy Sucks a Lemon for Breakfast wrote:Was anyone from Dunbar missing? Just curious.
1; Sandy
Several people were missing such as Brian, Matt, Ping, Victor, etc.
It seems the Dunbar lineup is extremely fluid.
This might be getting a bit off-topic but you can probably expect Dunbar A to be close to what it was at Harvard's Fall Tournament and Centre's mirror of T-Party (the only two tournaments that nearly everyone attended with the exception of Matt).
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by pblessman » Mon May 17, 2010 10:26 am

Thanks to everybody who attended! DCDS and Manual were exquisite- both of these teams should finish high at Nationals. A depleted Dunbar, DCC A, DCC B, Loyola, and Culver were quite evenly matched for 3rd-7th places, which made for some exciting matches (including an upset of DCC A by the hosts!). Full results can be found at: http://naqt.com/stats/tournament-teams. ... nt_id=2998
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Mon May 17, 2010 10:47 am

22.5ppb by Neil/DCD is really really good for this set. I think that points to a team that might be hitting 20ppb on the HSNCT set in a couple weeks, when that happened for only two teams last year at all. This is a scary team for anyone to face.

EDIT:
8 William Henry Harrison A Win 740 - 85 24 6 13 2 530 27.89
Wow.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Mon May 17, 2010 12:48 pm

I don't think I heard 25 tossups against DCC B.

Anyways I had a lot of fun at this tournament...so cool to play schools I don't usually see. My advice for next year would be to really invest money into getting quality moderators and scorekeepers to come out. Padding individual stats is hard when one moderator only reads 20-22 tossups and insists on keeping score himself and has conversations with other coaches while the clock is running...and this was with 10 minute halves. Also some school (maybe Culver) should really think about some sort of ACF-style/PACE-style midwest championship...I have a feeling that format and distribution could have made for a wildly different tournament and would be interesting to see. (This tournament was still awesome, I just prefer ACf-style.)
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by jonah » Mon May 17, 2010 2:28 pm

Dan-Don wrote:My advice for next year would be to really invest money into getting quality moderators and scorekeepers to come out. Padding individual stats is hard when one moderator only reads 20-22 tossups and insists on keeping score himself and has conversations with other coaches while the clock is running...and this was with 10 minute halves.
Echoing this. I obviously didn't see the moderator in question, but it was pretty frustrating not to have a scorekeeper (though I was fortunate enough to get someone else in the room to keep score most of the time). At a minimum, if scorekeepers can't be had, rounds shouldn't be timed.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by pblessman » Tue May 18, 2010 11:06 am

Thanks for the suggestion regarding scorekeepers. If teams are OK with paying more money for the tournament, I will be happy to hire scorekeepers for the day.

However, I was a bit surprised about number of questions being read being a concern, and I am also surprised that the quality of moderators was criticized. Even though I don't believe every single moderator was perfect, I believe we had a very high quality group assembled, and the stats seem to support this (once again many thanks to Mike Laudermith, Matt Laird, Jon Greenthal, and Ben Dillon for reading for the tournament). Stats don't vouch for pronunciation etc., but I have a hard time seeing how numbers of questions read could be a concern.

We finished the eleven round RR by 3:45 PM, and the two-game final finished by 4:50 PM, meaning we got in 13 rounds before 5 PM. The LOWEST number of toss-ups read in any match was 19, with the mean at 22.9. Dan-Don heard 234 TUs in 10 matches for an average of 23.4 TUH per game. As there are only 24 questions in each set, Dan-Don only missed out on six questions all day. The lowest average for any team was 22.0. In comparison, my team heard an average of 21.5 TU per game at HSNCT last year, and other teams heard a similar number of questions (and keep in mind that there are 26 questions per HSNCT set, so some games can have 25 or 26 TUs).

All that being said, I hope Dan-Don will bring a posse of Wildcats down to next year's Midwest Championship so you guys can do some even better reading and scorekeeping. Maybe we can get the mean, mode, and median of questions read per match all equal to 24? :grin:
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by dtaylor4 » Tue May 18, 2010 11:43 am

pblessman wrote:Thanks for the suggestion regarding scorekeepers. If teams are OK with paying more money for the tournament, I will be happy to hire scorekeepers for the day.

However, I was a bit surprised about number of questions being read being a concern, and I am also surprised that the quality of moderators was criticized. Even though I don't believe every single moderator was perfect, I believe we had a very high quality group assembled, and the stats seem to support this (once again many thanks to Mike Laudermith, Matt Laird, Jon Greenthal, and Ben Dillon for reading for the tournament). Stats don't vouch for pronunciation etc., but I have a hard time seeing how numbers of questions read could be a concern.

We finished the eleven round RR by 3:45 PM, and the two-game final finished by 4:50 PM, meaning we got in 13 rounds before 5 PM. The LOWEST number of toss-ups read in any match was 19, with the mean at 22.9. Dan-Don heard 234 TUs in 10 matches for an average of 23.4 TUH per game. As there are only 24 questions in each set, Dan-Don only missed out on six questions all day. The lowest average for any team was 22.0. In comparison, my team heard an average of 21.5 TU per game at HSNCT last year, and other teams heard a similar number of questions (and keep in mind that there are 26 questions per HSNCT set, so some games can have 25 or 26 TUs).

All that being said, I hope Dan-Don will bring a posse of Wildcats down to next year's Midwest Championship so you guys can do some even better reading and scorekeeping. Maybe we can get the mean, mode, and median of questions read per match all equal to 24? :grin:
Small suggestion: Since you had teams on byes, why not ask them to have one or two people scorekeep during a round? From experience, I'd rather have quizbowl people scorekeep than student volunteers.

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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by pblessman » Tue May 18, 2010 12:19 pm

Thanks, Donald. That's a really good suggestion! Don't know why I didn't think of that on Saturday.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Tue May 18, 2010 12:38 pm

I guess it's good that we were averaging 23.4 TUH, but I believe these were 425-character tossups. Therefore timing rules should have been 9-minute halves. Knowing the scorekeeper situation, I suggested 10 minute halves during the players/coaches' meeting. But that still means that, on average, moderators weren't finishing the packet even though they had two extra minutes. I will certainly do my best to fix the staffing situation next year for this great event.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue May 18, 2010 2:53 pm

Uh, finishing the packet is nice, but the goal of a good moderator in NAQT should be to hit 20 tossups, and then the rest is gravy. Complaining about there being only 21 tossups read in some matches meaning the staff was bad sounds like a stupid complaint, and browsing the stats, there are 2 games that had 19 tossups, and none with less, which is REALLY good for a non-professional quizbowl tournament like the HSNCT. If I were coach Blessman I would ignore both you and Jonah.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Tue May 18, 2010 3:39 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Uh, finishing the packet is nice, but the goal of a good moderator in NAQT should be to hit 20 tossups, and then the rest is gravy.
Gotta disagree here. If we're doing 9 minute halves, I feel just awful about it if I don't get through 24. 20 of 24 or 26 leaves a lot on the table.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by dtaylor4 » Tue May 18, 2010 3:46 pm

Dresden_The_Moderator wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Uh, finishing the packet is nice, but the goal of a good moderator in NAQT should be to hit 20 tossups, and then the rest is gravy.
Gotta disagree here. If we're doing 9 minute halves, I feel just awful about it if I don't get through 24. 20 of 24 or 26 leaves a lot on the table.
Then why is untimed 20/20? 26 leaves enough for replacements/tiebreakers, since NAQT uses 3/3 as the initial tiebreaker.

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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Tue May 18, 2010 3:54 pm

dtaylor4 wrote:
Dresden_The_Moderator wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Uh, finishing the packet is nice, but the goal of a good moderator in NAQT should be to hit 20 tossups, and then the rest is gravy.
Gotta disagree here. If we're doing 9 minute halves, I feel just awful about it if I don't get through 24. 20 of 24 or 26 leaves a lot on the table.
Then why is untimed 20/20? 26 leaves enough for replacements/tiebreakers, since NAQT uses 3/3 as the initial tiebreaker.
I think untimed is 20/20 because 20 is a round number that scorekeepers love to love. It's a different mentality though...if it's 20/20 then teams expect 20 questions, that's what they get and everyone goes home happy. If it's untimed though, I would feel remiss to not give them the most possible. Besides...the more questions, the better sample size by which to evaluate teams, both in an individual match and the tournament as a whole.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue May 18, 2010 4:18 pm

Unless doing so would result in an unusually low number of tossups being read (under 20), I think players would almost unanimously agree that it is far more important for moderators to read with utmost clarity than to read as many tossups in a packet as possible. 20 tossups is obviously a large enough sample size to declare a fair winner, assuming we think all these 20/20 tournaments are good, so yeah, reaching 20 is the goal if you want to make sure the game result isn't flawed, and then anything after that is just gravy to make the round's fairness just a little more certain.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Tue May 18, 2010 4:40 pm

Ah but Charlie you're forgetting that the timing rules had been amended. Had the timing rules stayed at 9 minute halves, it is safe to say that the moderator from St. Joe's (whose number of tossups heard was severely affected by the need to keep score by himself) would have averaged less than 20 TUH. If I were Coach Blessman I wouldn't ignore my advice: scorekeepers should be gotten for an event as important as this (that is, if it's going to be timed). That's all Jonah and I are advising. Of course, I did also advise that the moderator in question doesn't stop to have a conversation while the clock is running. But I can hardly blame Mr. Blessman for that, can I?

EDITS: clarity
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by jonpin » Tue May 18, 2010 5:23 pm

Dan-Don wrote:I guess it's good that we were averaging 23.4 TUH, but I believe these were 425-character tossups. Therefore timing rules should have been 9-minute halves. Knowing the scorekeeper situation, I suggested 10 minute halves during the players/coaches' meeting. But that still means that, on average, moderators weren't finishing the packet even though they had two extra minutes. I will certainly do my best to fix the staffing situation next year for this great event.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. SCT, which is what you were playing on, has ten-minute halves.

Also, saying it's hard to pad individual stats when you only get through 20-22 questions sounds completely silly for reasons beyond those already mentioned, as stats are calculated per TU.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Dan-Don » Tue May 18, 2010 5:27 pm

jonpin wrote:
Dan-Don wrote:I guess it's good that we were averaging 23.4 TUH, but I believe these were 425-character tossups. Therefore timing rules should have been 9-minute halves. Knowing the scorekeeper situation, I suggested 10 minute halves during the players/coaches' meeting. But that still means that, on average, moderators weren't finishing the packet even though they had two extra minutes. I will certainly do my best to fix the staffing situation next year for this great event.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. SCT, which is what you were playing on, has ten-minute halves.

Also, saying it's hard to pad individual stats when you only get through 20-22 questions sounds completely silly for reasons beyond those already mentioned, as stats are calculated per TU.
D2 is 10 minute halves? Well, in that case, that was my mistake. And the "padding stats" comment was just for some humor at my own expense.

But it's all irrelevant: no one is going to convince me that a tournament--nay, a Midwest Championship--shouldn't make the effort to bring in scorekeepers.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by jonah » Tue May 18, 2010 5:48 pm

Not reading the entire packet produces even more aberrant distributions than the NAQT distribution already produces per packet (because not every packet is identically distributed).
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Ben Dillon » Wed May 19, 2010 1:55 pm

Dan-Don wrote:Ah but Charlie you're forgetting that the timing rules had been amended. Had the timing rules stayed at 9 minute halves, it is safe to say that the moderator from St. Joe's (whose number of tossups heard was severely affected by the need to keep score by himself) would have averaged less than 20 TUH. If I were Coach Blessman I wouldn't ignore my advice: scorekeepers should be gotten for an event as important as this (that is, if it's going to be timed). That's all Jonah and I are advising. Of course, I did also advise that the moderator in question doesn't stop to have a conversation while the clock is running. But I can hardly blame Mr. Blessman for that, can I?
Since this was the first time I've ever read for a timed tournament, I'll claim a little bit of latitude. I do apologize for throwing in that small conversation with the Harrison coach; I lost my head for a second and you brought me back to my senses.

Gotta disagree with the "need to keep score by himself" comment though. When the only other non-players in the room don't have a lot of experience with keeping score, such as the Harrison coach, I'm reluctant to force them to do so. And I did not insist on scoring when others offered.

On the other discussion of how many tossups should be expected, why are we evaluating the "success" of readers using only this statistic? A reader shouldn't be proud of getting through 26 TU if he/she read so fast that the tossups were going dead due to unintelligibility. In fact, because tossups do go dead, I would think that number of bonuses would be a much more desirable stat.
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Re: Midwest Championship May 15, 2010 at Culver (IN)

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed May 19, 2010 2:20 pm

DII SCT/ICT have a 425-character tossup length limit, but ten-minute halves. (In order to keep the DII tournaments on the same schedule as the DI rooms with longer tossups.) It's not at all obvious to me whether high school tournaments using DII questions should use 9-minute or 10-minute halves. I'll ask R. for a clarification.
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