Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
Locked
User avatar
Charley Pride
Rikku
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm

Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Charley Pride » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:32 pm

Auburn's mirror of 2009 HFT will be this coming Saturday and Auburn High School in Rockford. Below is the team listing in alphabetical order. Note that this is a five-on-five event.

Auburn - 2
Belvidere North - 2
Culver Academies - 2
Guilford
Keith Country Day
LaSalle-Peru - 2
Loyola Academy - 2
New Trier - 2
St. Ignatius
Sterling
Sterling Newman
Stevenson - 2
Stillman Valley
Wehaton North - 2
Wheaton-Warrenville South - 2

Waitlisted: McHenry


The field is closed, but I supposed you can add yourself to the waitlist if that floats your boat.

EDIT: Attachments, Field corrections
Attachments
HMAwards&Advancement 2.doc
(37.72 KiB) Downloaded 134 times
Driving Directions to Auburn 2.doc
(12.97 KiB) Downloaded 123 times
Harvard Mirror 09 Schedule.doc
(22.5 KiB) Downloaded 204 times
Last edited by Charley Pride on Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Zahed Haseeb

Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014

User avatar
abnormal abdomen
Rikku
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by abnormal abdomen » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:15 pm

Two things.

a) I think she wanted this in the Illinois forum (is there even a difference?).

b) I don't think there are further admissions being made, due to limitations on moderators and whatnot.
Abid Haseeb
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2067
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:16 pm

Hold the boat - Keith Country Day has a team? Somebody email me their coach's email address, please! (and actually, Belvidere North, Sterling Newman, and Stillman Valley's coach, too, I don't think I've got updated contacts for them either)
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

User avatar
abnormal abdomen
Rikku
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by abnormal abdomen » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:21 pm

styxman wrote:Hold the boat - Keith Country Day has a team? Somebody email me their coach's email address, please! (and actually, Belvidere North, Sterling Newman, and Stillman Valley's coach, too, I don't think I've got updated contacts for them either)
I'll get this to you by tomorrow. I have a cousin who goes there and is apparently on the Keith Country Day team, but wasn't able to provide the coach's email when I called her.

EDIT: Clarity
Abid Haseeb
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT

User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by dtaylor4 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:37 pm

Through 5:

Auburn is undefeated, beating St. Ignatius by 10 in the fifth power-matched round. Playoff RRs are starting now. I'd post stats, but I can't access my netfiles due to the RPS network being retarded.

wexs883198215
Wakka
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:02 pm
Location: Stanford, California

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by wexs883198215 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:16 pm

Is this the last scheduled mirror of HFT?
Kuo-Kai Chin
Walter Johnson High School '11
Harvard University '15
Stanford University School of Medicine '19

User avatar
Mechanical Beasts
Banned Cheater
Posts: 5673
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:12 pm

wexs883198215 wrote:Is this the last scheduled mirror of HFT?
Indeed.
Andrew Watkins

User avatar
Captain Sinico
Auron
Posts: 2840
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: Champaign, Illinois

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Captain Sinico » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:10 pm

Top bracket final results:
Auburn A, 9-1
St. Ignatius, 8-2
Stevenson A, 7-3 (22.82 PBCPBC)
Loyola A, 7-3 (20.86 PBCPBC)
New Trier A, 5-5
Culver A, 3-7.

Per the rules, no final was played and the 3rd and 4th places were decided on points on bonus controlled per bonus controlled.
Mike Sorice
Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
ACF
IHSSBCA
PACE

User avatar
Jane Fairfax
Wakka
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:54 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Jane Fairfax » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:24 pm

As has been, said, Auburn A won the tournament with a 9-1 record. We finished 5-0 in the morning, while St. Ignatius, Stevenson, and Loyola all finishing 4-1 and New Trier and Culver having the highest PPB of the 3-2 teams.

Andrew Deveau easily was top scorer, finishing with 45+ more ppg than anyone else.

It was a good day of quizbowl and thanks to everyon who helped.
Lloyd Sy
Auburn 2012
Brown 2016

User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by dtaylor4 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:39 pm

I apologize, but stats are unavailable for right now. The main file was on my flash drive, which I have somehow misplaced, much to my chagrin. Once I am able to procure it again, stats will be up shortly afterwards.

User avatar
abnormal abdomen
Rikku
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by abnormal abdomen » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:16 am

A big thanks to everyone who helped this tournament run well, especially the moderators and DTaylor for the statistics (which have apparently been temporarily misplaced). Today was fun, and we enjoyed the set (as well as Sorice's commentary on it, of course).

I eagerly look forward to NTV.
Abid Haseeb
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2067
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:21 am

Out of curiosity, why no advantaged final? (I see that the rules posted earlier do not allow for one - why don't they?)
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

User avatar
Charley Pride
Rikku
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Charley Pride » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:40 am

styxman wrote:Out of curiosity, why no advantaged final? (I see that the rules posted earlier do not allow for one - why don't they?)
Honestly there's no great reason. There was time for one, but the best reason for why we didn't have one would in fact be time limitations. I'd want an advantaged final next time.
Zahed Haseeb

Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014

Coach G
Lulu
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:42 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Coach G » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:46 am

The rules did call for/allow one. . .I think the rules posted are not the final version. Auburn defeated St. Ignatius, the second place team, twice during the regular ten rounds of play. That's why there was not another round between them. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by an advantaged final?
Linda J. Greene
Rockford Auburn Coach

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2067
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:56 am

Oliver Ellsworth wrote:
styxman wrote:Out of curiosity, why no advantaged final? (I see that the rules posted earlier do not allow for one - why don't they?)
Honestly there's no great reason. There was time for one, but the best reason for why we didn't have one would in fact be time limitations. I'd want an advantaged final next time.
That's unfortunate. Welp, live and learn for next year, I suppose.
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

User avatar
Boeing X-20, Please!
Rikku
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:40 pm
Location: Evanston, IL

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:19 am

Coach G wrote:The rules did call for/allow one. . .I think the rules posted are not the final version. Auburn defeated St. Ignatius, the second place team, twice during the regular ten rounds of play. That's why there was not another round between them. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by an advantaged final?
Well normally it is not done by head-to-head records, but rather overall and since Ignatius was 8-2 and Auburn was 9-1, Ignatius was only 1 game behind. Thus, normal (ACF-style) procedures would be to hold an advantaged final between Ignatius and Auburn with Auburn having the advantage.
Nolan Winkler
Loyola Academy '12
UChicago '16

User avatar
cornfused
Auron
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:22 pm
Location: Des Moines, IA

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by cornfused » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:14 am

The rules about the final as announced pre-tourney:

"If there is a tie in the upper bracket after round 10, another round will be played to determine the champion. If there is a multi-way tie after 10 rounds, e.g. 3 teams with one loss each, they will be ranked based on average bonus points per controlled bonus. The 2nd and 3rd place teams on that criterion will play either a half round or a full round (depending on what time it is then) to determine which one will play the other team for the championship. In other cases, to break a tie by record for ranking, we will use average points scored per bonus the team controls (this does not include rebound or stolen bonus points) for the entire day."

So while it would have been great to play an advantaged final (especially considering the closeness of the games between Auburn and St. Ignatius) and I supported the possibility of one happening, the tourney rules clearly stated: no final unless there's a tie for first place after ten rounds.
Greg Peterson

Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07

"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne

User avatar
cornfused
Auron
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:22 pm
Location: Des Moines, IA

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by cornfused » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:20 am

MoCity02 wrote:
Coach G wrote:The rules did call for/allow one. . .I think the rules posted are not the final version. Auburn defeated St. Ignatius, the second place team, twice during the regular ten rounds of play. That's why there was not another round between them. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by an advantaged final?
Well normally it is not done by head-to-head records, but rather overall and since Ignatius was 8-2 and Auburn was 9-1, Ignatius was only 1 game behind. Thus, normal (ACF-style) procedures would be to hold an advantaged final between Ignatius and Auburn with Auburn having the advantage.
Basically, under standard ACF rules, you play an advantaged final (two games, advantaged team wins tourney by winning either game) unless a team has cleared the field by two games after regular play finishes. So an ACF tourney would've had Ignatius-Auburn in round 11... and if Ignatius won, then Ignatius-Auburn again in round 12.

Auburn was 2-0 against St. I in regular play, but to count this as the tiebreak would basically forgive Auburn for the (of course, only relatively) "bad" loss they took against Loyola. Imagine if Auburn had lost to, say, New Trier as well. Then Auburn's still 2-0 against Ignatius, but RA and St. I have two losses each and we would've had a final.
Greg Peterson

Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07

"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne

adeveau
Lulu
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by adeveau » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:48 pm

So, basically, there should have been an advantaged final?
Andrew Deveau
St. Ignatius

Born on the same day as Austen

User avatar
Charley Pride
Rikku
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Charley Pride » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:06 pm

What we did followed the rules we set out.

That said, I will say that I don't agree with the rules, and I partially take responsibility for not realizing the night before (when we were discussing format) that there was no stipulation for a true final match. This happened last year at NTV, and it happened again this past Saturday: the championship was decided between two teams when one of the teams beat a third team. Last year we lost to Loyola in the penultimate match of afternoon pool play, but we won the tournament when we won the last match against Carbondale. I don't think there ever should be an afternoon playoff decided without an advantaged final; it defies convention and makes for anticlimactic finishes.

A tournament winner should always be decided through a final match that both teams must have earn a right to play in, unless, in a freak circustance, there is a team with a distinct two-game advantage. I'm sorry this didn't happen at Auburn.
Zahed Haseeb

Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014

adeveau
Lulu
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by adeveau » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:43 pm

That came off as more hostile than I meant it to. I really enjoyed the tournament and I was even okay with no advantaged final. I just thought that Ms. Greene said there should have been one. That's all.
Andrew Deveau
St. Ignatius

Born on the same day as Austen

User avatar
Charley Pride
Rikku
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Charley Pride » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:21 pm

adeveau wrote:That came off as more hostile than I meant it to. I really enjoyed the tournament and I was even okay with no advantaged final. I just thought that Ms. Greene said there should have been one. That's all.
If you're talking to me, I didn't take any hostility. I actually felt bad about how it ended up, and I was gonna type that message up anyway.
Zahed Haseeb

Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014

Coach G
Lulu
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:42 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Coach G » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:11 pm

Since posting of full stats will be delayed per Donald's earlier post, I'll give here some of the scores/results of matches among the top bracket teams.
You'll see that there were many great matches; I wish I could have seen more of them.

Day's records -
1st Auburn A 9-1 (5-0 AM), loss to Loy A in the PM
2nd St. Ignatius 8-2 (4-1 AM), both losses to Aub A, 1 in AM, 1 in PM
3rd Stevenson A 7-3 (4-1 AM), 2 losses to St. Ig - AM & PM, 1 loss to Aub A in PM
4th Loyola A 7-3 (4-1 AM), 1 loss to St. Ignatius in PM, 2 losses to Stev. A 1 in AM & 1 in PM
5th New Trier A 5-5 (4-1 AM), AM loss to St. Ig
6th Culver A 3-7 (3-2 AM), AM losses to Aub A and NT A

From AM Swiss power-paired rounds (played on rds. 1-5 of the Harvard questions) -
rd. 3: St. Ig 520 - NT 130, Stev 450 - Loy 270, Aub 470 - Culv 210
rd. 4: St. Ig 370 - Stev 360, Aub 610 - Stillman Valley 60 (the only round for the day with a team scoring over 600, I believe)
rd. 5: Aub 350 - St. Ig 340, Loy 480 - WWS 220*, Stev 490 - Aub B 120, NT 350 - Culv 260 * WWS was missing 1 or more starters all day

From PM bracketed rounds (top six teams based on AM were in this bracket) - played on rds. 6-10 of Harvard questions -
Rd. 6: St. Ig 340 - Loy 320, Aub 480 - Culv 220, Stev 570 - NT 170
Rd. 7: Stev 370 - Loy 340, Aub 510 - NT 180, St. Ig 520 - Culv 140
Rd. 8: Loy 360 - Aub 300, NT 290 - Culv 270, St. Ig 430 - Stev 240
Rd. 9: Loy 300 - NT 290, Aub 410 - St. Ig 240, Stev 430 - Culv 150
Rd. 10: Aub 480 - Stev 240, St. Ig 380 - NT 210, Loy 350 - Culv 250
Linda J. Greene
Rockford Auburn Coach

User avatar
cornfused
Auron
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:22 pm
Location: Des Moines, IA

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by cornfused » Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:25 pm

adeveau wrote:That came off as more hostile than I meant it to. I really enjoyed the tournament and I was even okay with no advantaged final. I just thought that Ms. Greene said there should have been one. That's all.
Ms. Greene misunderstood the term "advantaged final" - according to the tourney rules, no, there should NOT have been an advantaged final.
Greg Peterson

Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07

"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne

crs@mchsi.com
Kimahri
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:21 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by crs@mchsi.com » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:43 pm

Thank you Linda Greene for posting more results. Is this the official site for tournament results? There were more results in our local paper today but still looking for individual stats and the complete results. Will there be more than what was in the newspaper? Sorry for all of the questions, we are new to this. thanks!!
Mrs. H

User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by dtaylor4 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:28 pm

crs@mchsi.com wrote:Thank you Linda Greene for posting more results. Is this the official site for tournament results? There were more results in our local paper today but still looking for individual stats and the complete results. Will there be more than what was in the newspaper? Sorry for all of the questions, we are new to this. thanks!!
If you check earlier upthread, you'll read about my mishap with my flash drive. Stats will be up by Monday. Any questions, email me.

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2067
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:56 am

crs@mchsi.com wrote:Thank you Linda Greene for posting more results. Is this the official site for tournament results? There were more results in our local paper today but still looking for individual stats and the complete results. Will there be more than what was in the newspaper? Sorry for all of the questions, we are new to this. thanks!!
And yeah, Donald's stats will be complete, including individual results. A hearty welcome for KCD to the quizbowl circuit - after years of watching you guys do well at ICTM and WYSE, it's wonderful to see your debut come at a good quizbowl event like Auburn's HFT mirror. We hope to see you at Huskie Bowl at NIU in February!
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by dtaylor4 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:43 pm

I apologize profusely for the delay, my flash drive was kindly sent to me by the person who found it, so the stats were recovered.

Prelims
Overall

Note: The bounceback was only used to remove bounceback points from the bonus conversion statistic. The B/C that was utilized is the conversion rate for bonuses controlled by that team.

If there are any errors, let me know, and I'll do my best to correct them.

User avatar
JackGlerum
Tidus
Posts: 660
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:20 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by JackGlerum » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:53 pm

UIUC password protected for me.

User avatar
Mechanical Beasts
Banned Cheater
Posts: 5673
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:54 pm

JackGlerum wrote:UIUC password protected for me.
Me too.
Andrew Watkins

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2297
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by jonah » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:56 pm

Hm, Donald's netfiles were working for me earlier but aren't now. In any events, the stats are also available here (prelims) and here (full).
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
The King's Flight to the Scots
Auron
Posts: 1451
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:03 pm

Pardon me here, but I'm surprised. Comparing these stats to the Decemberist stats, it looks like HSAPQ set 9 (or the bonuses, at least) was a good bit tougher than HFT. If someone wants, I can post a comparison, but really, an HSAPQ set shouldn't even be as difficult as HFT.

EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
Communications Officer, ACF

sageorator
Lulu
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:27 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by sageorator » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:26 pm

Journey to the Planets wrote:Pardon me here, but I'm surprised. Comparing these stats to the Decemberist stats, it looks like HSAPQ set 9 (or the bonuses, at least) was a good bit tougher than HFT. If someone wants, I can post a comparison, but really, an HSAPQ set shouldn't even be as difficult as HFT.

EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were bouncebacks, which would inflate numbers.
John Lavender-Stott
Blacksburg High School '10

User avatar
The King's Flight to the Scots
Auron
Posts: 1451
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:29 pm

sageorator wrote:
Journey to the Planets wrote:Pardon me here, but I'm surprised. Comparing these stats to the Decemberist stats, it looks like HSAPQ set 9 (or the bonuses, at least) was a good bit tougher than HFT. If someone wants, I can post a comparison, but really, an HSAPQ set shouldn't even be as difficult as HFT.

EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were bouncebacks, which would inflate numbers.
Well, no, bounceback stats are listed separately.
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
Communications Officer, ACF

User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by dtaylor4 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:31 pm

sageorator wrote:
Journey to the Planets wrote:Pardon me here, but I'm surprised. Comparing these stats to the Decemberist stats, it looks like HSAPQ set 9 (or the bonuses, at least) was a good bit tougher than HFT. If someone wants, I can post a comparison, but really, an HSAPQ set shouldn't even be as difficult as HFT.

EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were bouncebacks, which would inflate numbers.
The bouncebacks were taken out by adding in rebounds, which aren't really accurate. The bonus conversion shown is only for controlled bonuses, just like as if there weren't bouncebacks.

If someone can devise a way to accurately track bounceback conversion as well as regular bonus conversion without making it cumbersome for the people involved, I'm all ears.

As for the stats: I made a few corrections, but forgot to redo the permissions. They should be good now.

EDIT: As if I couldn't do even more stupid s*** today.

sageorator
Lulu
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:27 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by sageorator » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:35 pm

Journey to the Planets wrote:
sageorator wrote:
Journey to the Planets wrote:Pardon me here, but I'm surprised. Comparing these stats to the Decemberist stats, it looks like HSAPQ set 9 (or the bonuses, at least) was a good bit tougher than HFT. If someone wants, I can post a comparison, but really, an HSAPQ set shouldn't even be as difficult as HFT.

EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were bouncebacks, which would inflate numbers.
Well, no, bounceback stats are listed separately.
I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
John Lavender-Stott
Blacksburg High School '10

User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by dtaylor4 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:45 pm

sageorator wrote:I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
Bouncebacks still inflate PPG, just not to the degree that they would influence B/C.

User avatar
Mechanical Beasts
Banned Cheater
Posts: 5673
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:32 pm

dtaylor4 wrote:
sageorator wrote:I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
Bouncebacks still inflate PPG, just not to the degree that they would influence B/C.
Don't those stats separate points per bounceback and points per bonus? I can't tell, I guess.
Andrew Watkins

wexs883198215
Wakka
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:02 pm
Location: Stanford, California

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by wexs883198215 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:19 am

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
dtaylor4 wrote:
sageorator wrote:I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
Bouncebacks still inflate PPG, just not to the degree that they would influence B/C.
Don't those stats separate points per bounceback and points per bonus? I can't tell, I guess.
He's talking about points per game though.
Kuo-Kai Chin
Walter Johnson High School '11
Harvard University '15
Stanford University School of Medicine '19

User avatar
Mechanical Beasts
Banned Cheater
Posts: 5673
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:25 am

wexs883198215 wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
dtaylor4 wrote:
sageorator wrote:I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
Bouncebacks still inflate PPG, just not to the degree that they would influence B/C.
Don't those stats separate points per bounceback and points per bonus? I can't tell, I guess.
He's talking about points per game though.
Not in the clause "they would influence B/C" which implies that bouncebacks would influence bonus conversion. Is that true if--as I see in the stats--points per bonus and points per bounceback are listed separately?
Andrew Watkins

User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by dtaylor4 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:55 am

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
wexs883198215 wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
dtaylor4 wrote:
sageorator wrote:I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
Bouncebacks still inflate PPG, just not to the degree that they would influence B/C.
Don't those stats separate points per bounceback and points per bonus? I can't tell, I guess.
He's talking about points per game though.
Not in the clause "they would influence B/C" which implies that bouncebacks would influence bonus conversion. Is that true if--as I see in the stats--points per bonus and points per bounceback are listed separately?
They are, in this case. The rebound stats aren't perfectly accurate, since the number of opportunities is wrong. There is a way to calculate rebound conversion percentage that I just thought of:

[30 * (opponent TU) - (BP scored by opponent on opponent-controlled bonuses)]/10 = rebound chances
points scored on rebound = total rebound points
rebound chances / rebound points = conversion

if the bonuses points are broken down, which can (and should) be done by the scorekeeper, then the proper data can be entered into SQBS.

User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:53 am

bonuses
It's bonuses.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

User avatar
Charley Pride
Rikku
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Charley Pride » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:53 am

Yeah, bonuses bounced back. Assuming the bounceback points are accurate (which they apparently aren't), then the real total points for Auburn would be 4670 - 700, and our real PPG without bouncebacks would be 397...does that sound more reasonable?
Zahed Haseeb

Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014

User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by dtaylor4 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:54 am

The amount of points gained off of bouncebacks should be accurate. The number of bounceback opportunities is in error.

User avatar
Charley Pride
Rikku
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Charley Pride » Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:10 am

I did notice that PPB were markedly higher at HFT, and that PPG was also legitimately higher, especially considering both tournaments had bouncebacks.

To the issue of bonuses, I would say that it could be a symptom of teams improving. Furthermore, I would say that teams looked awfully sluggish at Decemeberist for much of the day. I don't know how seriously people will take that statement, not am I sure how much it applies, but that's the only explanation I have.

The issue of PPG is resolved by the fact that higher level teams played fewer difficult games at HFT than at Decemberist. This explanation is based strictly on my memory of who we played and not at all on studying actual matches. There were matches at HFT where Auburn scored 590 and 610 points. Nothing of the sort happened at Decemberist.
Zahed Haseeb

Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014

Dan-Don
Yuna
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:05 pm
Location: Evanston
Contact:

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by Dan-Don » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:49 pm

This was power-matched though, right? That's always going to affect the prelim PPG. Decemberist wasn't.
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT

User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by dtaylor4 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:55 pm

Dan-Don wrote:This was power-matched though, right? That's always going to affect the prelim PPG. Decemberist wasn't.
The prelims were power-matched. The playoffs were group RR based on the prelim record, then controlled PPB.

User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09

Post by dtaylor4 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:51 am

Any corrections sent me have been incorporated into the stats. Still the same link.

Locked