VHSL Results & Opinions

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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by I'm a goff (in case you couldn't tell) » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:39 pm

Thanks, everyone. I've updated the results based on what's been posted.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by sageorator » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:25 pm

The Region IV tournament was cancelled. Blacksburg and Tazewell advance to states as the #1 and #2 seeds respectively.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by I'm a goff (in case you couldn't tell) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:50 pm

Anybody have any lead on what's happened in Region B, Region I & II or the Northwest Region?
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by STPickrell » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:19 pm

sageorator wrote:The Region IV tournament was cancelled. Blacksburg and Tazewell advance to states as the #1 and #2 seeds respectively.
How'd they figure out Blacksburg and Tazewell were the #1 and #2 seeds?

From Facebook:
Region B, tomorrow, 1pm at Buckingham County HS
Region I, Thursday, 4:30pm at Poquoson HS
Region II, Thursday, 4:30pm at Charlottesville HS

I've asked the guy running the NW Region what's happened. (EDIT: They're aiming for Wednesday between 3 and 9pm. And, Halifax, Patrick Henry (Roanoke), Massaponax, Colonial Forge, Osbourn, Stonewall Jackson (Manassas), Woodbridge, and Hylton will be playing. No clue who was #1 and #2, though.)
Last edited by STPickrell on Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by sageorator » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:36 pm

STPickrell wrote: How'd they figure out Blacksburg and Tazewell were the #1 and #2 seeds?

Region B, I heard, has not yet been held, and will be a single-elim between now and Friday.
Your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps PPG or margin of victory?

According to the Facebook group Regions I and II will play on Thursday.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by FredCamp » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:10 pm

Blacksburg and Tazwell now advance from Region IV after that tournament was canceled. The teams were selected based on points from the district tournaments.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by kamikaze » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:13 am

FredCamp wrote:Blacksburg and Tazwell now advance from Region IV after that tournament was canceled. The teams were selected based on points from the district tournaments.
To be more specific, and from what it was explained to me, they just took the final round points from each district tournament so I guess Blacksburg had the highest and Tazwell had the second highest. I'm not too happy about the decision and I can't imagine Salem is too happy about it either but it seems like a done deal. You think they would look at better stats or something more than the basis of just one round of play but oh well.

I still can't understand why it wasn't moved to Thursday like the Region I and II tournaments.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Carolus Magnus » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:36 am

kamikaze wrote:
FredCamp wrote:Blacksburg and Tazewell now advance from Region IV after that tournament was canceled. The teams were selected based on points from the district tournaments.
To be more specific, and from what it was explained to me, they just took the final round points from each district tournament so I guess Blacksburg had the highest and Tazewell had the second highest. I'm not too happy about the decision and I can't imagine Salem is too happy about it either but it seems like a done deal. You think they would look at better stats or something more than the basis of just one round of play but oh well.

I still can't understand why it wasn't moved to Thursday like the Region I and II tournaments.
Definitely a questionable situation, since the discrepancy between district competitions is so vast. The competition in the River Ridge District is much tougher than in the Southwest District (this coming from someone who has played Blacksburg, Salem, CS and Christiansburg [from RRD] as well as Abingdon, Grundy, and Richlands [from SWD]), so Tazewell could have conceivably matched up against Salem or CS and been pummeled. That's the purpose for the regional tournaments in the first place.

Just my opinion on the subject. I'm not going to make a federal case out of it, but moving it back just seemed like the fair thing to do, despite so many postponements already this year.
Last edited by Carolus Magnus on Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by STPickrell » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:04 am

As a private citizen these days, I hope the Scholastic Bowl Advisory Committee considers this at the March's meeting.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by FredCamp » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:11 am

STPickrell wrote:As a private citizen these days, I hope the Scholastic Bowl Advisory Committee considers this at the March's meeting.
Private citizen, indeed, Shawn. :grin: I'm sure you're glad you didn't have to make that call for Region IV. I know I'm glad I didn't have to. If the Advisory Committee considers anything about the situation, then some one needs to voice it. I'm fairly sure some one has already.

No, Bob, Salem isn't happy with the decision either. I don't know how the rest of the region feels.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by mithokie » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:16 pm

As a staff member at Blacksburg HS, I was not very excited about how all of this went down either, even though we ended up qualifying for state through this process anyway. I feel that an attempt to move the competition at least one more time should have been made. I would have enjoyed watching Cave Spring and Salem fight for the chance to represent Region IV. Perhaps it was not possible to move the competition again; I really do not know.




Moving forward, as to how this should be approached for the future, should there be a written paper tie-break procedure that would be a better way to determine the two representatives from a region to compete at state. Keep in mind that there are not often (any??) VHSL matches between teams that are not a member of the same district during the regular season.

I believe that the common statistic used in standard quizbowl to compare teams from different brackets for seeding purposes is ppb. I believe that the logic here is that ppb is not affected by the quality of your opponent in any way. This statistic represents (more accurately for the better teams, since the sample size is increased) the amount of knowledge a team has.

The closest thing that could represent this in VHSL matches would be conversion % for your directed questions (First attempts only, not bouncebacks). I don't know if it is possible to gather this statistic from district tournament matches for all teams that were supposed to attend the region tournament, but if it were possible, I would propose that this statistic would be the metric to use to compare these teams.

Obviously (I hope), we all agree that it would be best if the matches were played and that these issues can be determined head-to-head. BUT, in the case of extreme Februarys (which do happen from time to time in Virginia), there should probably be some written paper tie-break procedure for dealing with these hopefully rare circumstances. Does anyone else have alternative ideas as how to deal with these situations?
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by pretzeldude92 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:25 pm

My friend from Osbourn has informed me that the Northwest Region has qualified #1 (Massaponax) and #2 (Osbourn)
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by pretzeldude92 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:05 am

The Clarke County High School page indicates that George Mason won Region B, and Clarke Co. was the runner-up. For the record, this is the fourth straight year that the Bull Run District has dominated Region B and taken both spots (although Clarke finished in third in 2006 when Mason advanced with Wilson Memorial), and the sixth straight year that the Bull Run District Champion has won Region B (Mason 5, Rapp *insert shameless plug here* 1).
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by kamikaze » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:17 pm

mithokie wrote:I feel that an attempt to move the competition at least one more time should have been made. I would have enjoyed watching Cave Spring and Salem fight for the chance to represent Region IV. Perhaps it was not possible to move the competition again; I really do not know.
I have to agree. We were in the process of making appeals to see that it could happen since the original Tuesday deadline was a fault of the VHSL and not Bassett. I thought we had a chance to move it to Thursday, which was the actual deadline, but some AD's at the regional meeting yesterday felt they couldn't contact their coaches in time to let them know they would be competing the following day. The executive chair went to the VHSL to ask for an extension to Saturday but was denied. I have no idea or reasoning as to why they would not extend the deadline, especially when it seems they were the ones in error. I hope the decision wasn't made because of expediency rather than getting the right people at states.
mithokie wrote: The closest thing that could represent this in VHSL matches would be conversion % for your directed questions (First attempts only, not bouncebacks). I don't know if it is possible to gather this statistic from district tournament matches for all teams that were supposed to attend the region tournament, but if it were possible, I would propose that this statistic would be the metric to use to compare these teams.

Obviously (I hope), we all agree that it would be best if the matches were played and that these issues can be determined head-to-head. BUT, in the case of extreme Februarys (which do happen from time to time in Virginia), there should probably be some written paper tie-break procedure for dealing with these hopefully rare circumstances. Does anyone else have alternative ideas as how to deal with these situations?
I pretty much agree with the above. Head-to-head would be nice but it rarely happens. I think your idea about using the directed round conversions, perhaps over the course of the entire District tournament and/or season, is a good one and fairly accurate. Here's my concern, though... the stats that are kept during the matches, where do they end up going? I mean, I think copies of the matches ended up in HSAPQ's hands for them to do data anlysis and all. Is there someone at VHSL that compiles the stats somewhere? All I know is that after I hand the scoresheets to our AD, they get faxed somewhere and that's all I ever hear about them.

Also, as a result of this mess, a motion was made within our region that if 50% of the teams were able to show up at the region tournament, then they would play (which is the same rule at the state level). If, in the rare event, a regional tournament can't be done to the weather or rabid hamsters or whatever, some sort of stat would be used to discern the qualifiers. They haven't decided what to use and I hope they invite some authorities to the discussion. What the ADs were dreading was that they would have to develop a way to determine the qualifiers for EVERY event.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by I'm a goff (in case you couldn't tell) » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:52 pm

VHSL announced results from Regions I & II - New Kent and Poquoson from Region I and Charlottesville and Western Albemarle from Region II.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by bottone#1 » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:59 am

Since all of the region results are in for all of the groups, here are the round 1 brackets for the 3 groups next Saturday at William&Mary (according to the VHSL facebook):

Group A:
Nandua vs. Eastern Montgomery
George Mason vs. Lebanon
Radford vs. Clarke County
Honaker vs. Mathews

Group AA:
New Kent vs. Harrisonburg
Charlottesville vs. Tazewell
E.C. Glass vs. Western Albemarle
Blacksburg vs. Poquoson

Group AAA:
Maggie Walker vs. Langley
Ocean Lakes vs. Osbourn
Thomas Jefferson S&T vs. Maury
Massaponax vs. Freeman
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by pretzeldude92 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:25 pm

Is it VHSL prognostication time? I believe that it is!

A: George Mason is pretty beastly this year, but they do have holes as well, and Honaker is putting up roughly the same scores as Mason. Nandua is putting up some pretty decent scores as well, and I wouldn't count Clarke out, as I have seen them in action and they can be scary good at times. Oh yeah, and Radford-with-banner will be there as a wild card as usual, and will likely finish in the top four.
Prediction: Mason and Honaker go to a 7th game. Dunno who wins.

AA: New Kent beat Blacksburg in a tournament last month where Blacksburg was averaging 20 ppb and New Kent 15 ppb. New Kent beat Charlottesville at GSAC, and finished higher than Blacksburg as well. AA always seems to be the least predictable tournament, because there always seems to be a lot more parity.
Prediction: Blacksburg defeats New Kent in the finals, with Charlottesville third.

AAA: I think that Gov will win and that TJHSST/Freeman will finish 2/3.

*Disclaimer: I am notoriously bad at predicting VHSL states, so these will be inevitably wrong.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by sageorator » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:03 pm

For what it's worth, we actually finished higher than New Kent at GSAC. They had two playoff brackets and then played cross-overs to determine the final places.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Carolus Magnus » Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:31 pm

After scouring the internets, I have discovered that the score from the Region C finals was Radford 225-- Eastern Montgomery 150, for any curious parties.

As for my prognostications, well, I guess I can give a few opinions.

A: Mason is the most impressive, but I think there are teams showing up that could beat them. Their scores are impressive, but how they stack up against state-caliber teams will have to be seen. EastMont has certainly improved since we last saw them, and Nandua looks quite impressive. Clarke County is the dark horse here; they've been playing in Mason's shadow up in Region B all year, so it's tough to say what they can do at the state level. They may come out and beat Radford in round one if they aren't effected by "maiden voyage to state" syndrome.

AA: I've predicted Blacksburg to win this since the beginning of the year, and they've done nothing but back up my predictions the entire time. Charlottesville is obviously still a factor, and they may have a pretty easy first round against Tazewell, who I still believe doesn't stack up with Salem or Cave Spring. I don't know much on New Kent, but I think when the chips are down, B-burg still has the tools to win. A team that I would keep my eye on is Harrisonburg, though; they may make some waves at state this year.

AAA: Maggie Walker, by far. TJ could possibly take silver, but Freeman is really impressive, and I wouldn't put it past them to knock TJ's block off in round two. I'm going to predict Maggie Walker taking #1 and Freeman in the #2 spot after a serious slug fest with TJ late in the tournament.
Last edited by Carolus Magnus on Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by wexs883198215 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:47 pm

Pardon the Maryland intrusion here but as a team that's played both TJ and Freeman, I would say that while they are both good teams, they are on totally different levels and I would be really surprised if Freeman pulled the upset.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Frater Taciturnus » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:06 pm

wexs883198215 wrote:Pardon the Maryland intrusion here but as a team that's played both TJ and Freeman, I would say that while they are both good teams, they are on totally different levels and I would be really surprised if Freeman pulled the upset.
Kevin is a much better tossup player than he is on bonuses so the fact that 300/500 points are tossups can only help Freeman. I would still say TJ is and should be the favorite but count out Kevin at your own risk.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by bottone#1 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:01 pm

[quote="Marie de France"]After scouring the internets, I have discovered that the score from the Region C finals was Radford 225-- Eastern Montgomery 150, for any curious parties.

I am! Thanks. My coach and I were unable to find anything about Eastern Montgomery. Needed to cause we play them first.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Carolus Magnus » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:06 pm

bottone#1 wrote:
Marie de France wrote:After scouring the internets, I have discovered that the score from the Region C finals was Radford 225-- Eastern Montgomery 150, for any curious parties.
I am! Thanks. My coach and I were unable to find anything about Eastern Montgomery. Needed to cause we play them first.
They're pretty good; we played them at Roanoke College in the fall and they can be quick at times-- I also noticed they were scoring in the upper 200s in their other Region C matchups. If I read the article on the Three Rivers District Tournament correctly, EastMont actually beat Radford once in an advantaged final and then lost to them in the final match.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Matt Weiner » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:04 pm

in aa, new kent is playing charlottesville for the right to face blacksburg in the final. no real info on aaa and a besides knowing a few of the teams that got eliminated early.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Matt Weiner » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:25 pm

ocean lakes v tj to play maggie walker
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Matt Weiner » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:26 pm

and in group a, eastern montgomery eliminates nandua on a controversial moderator call, and is currently playing honaker for entrance to the final against george mason
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Frater Taciturnus » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:00 pm

New Kent has knocked off Charlottesville 175-165 and the Group AA final is going right now.

EDIT: Honaker-George Mason is the Group A finals.


Edit again: Blacksburg has won the game and the Group AA state tournament 200-155
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by t-bar » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:46 pm

In AAA, TJ beat Ocean Lakes in the championship game of the loser's bracket 250-150 and then lost to Maggie Walker 280-150.
1st - Maggie Walker
2nd - TJ
3rd - Ocean Lakes
4th - Langley
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Matt Weiner » Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:29 pm

george mason defeats honaker in group a final
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by STPickrell » Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:45 pm

Congratulations to all the winners.

The Facebook page was consistently updated.

Group A:
Nandua 240 - Eastern Montgomery 130
George Mason 250 - Lebanon 85
Radford 180 - Clarke County 170
Honaker 200 - Mathews 150

George Mason 275 - Nandua 160
Honaker 200 - Radford 140
Eastern Montgomery 180 - Lebanon 125 (elim)
Mathews 170 - Clarke County 155 (elim)

George Mason 235 - Honaker 150
Eastern Montgomery 185 - Radford 155 (elim)
Nandua 205 - Mathews 135 (elim)

Eastern Montgomery 150 - Nandua 140 (elim)

Honaker 205 - Eastern Montgomery 140 (elim)

George Mason 235 - Honaker 135 (elim)
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by STPickrell » Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:48 pm

Group AA:
New Kent 215 - Harrisonburg 190
Charlottesville 210 - Tazewell 65
Western Albemarle 255 - E.C. Glass 105
Blacksburg 250 - Poquoson 150

New Kent 170 - Charlottesville 150
Western Albemarle 200 - Blacksburg 225
Harrisonburg 245 - Tazewell 120 (elim)
E.C. Glass 175 - Poquoson 170 (elim)

Blacksburg 265 - New Kent 120
Western Albemarle 250 - Harrisonburg 125 (elim)
Charlottesville 185 - E.C. Glass 165 (elim)

Charlottesville 220 - Western Albemarle 115 (elim)

New Kent def. Charlottesville (elim)

Blacksburg def. New Kent (elim)
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by STPickrell » Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:51 pm

Group AAA:
Maggie Walker 290 - Langley 135
Ocean Lakes 185 - Osbourn 160
Thomas Jefferson S&T 245 - Maury 175
Douglas Freeman 175 - Massaponax 125

Maggie Walker 315 - Ocean Lakes 130
Thomas Jefferson S&T 220 - Douglas Freeman 195
Langley 280 - Osbourn 75 (elim)
Massaponax 215 - Maury 210 (elim)

Maggie Walker 235 - Thomas Jefferson S&T 170
Langley 195 - Douglas Freeman 160 (elim)
Ocean Lakes 230 - Massaponax 145 (elim)

Ocean Lakes 145 - Langley 140 (elim)

Thomas Jefferson def. Ocean Lakes (elim)

Maggie Walker def. Thomas Jefferson (elim)
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by bottone#1 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:16 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:and in group a, eastern montgomery eliminates nandua on a controversial moderator call, and is currently playing honaker for entrance to the final against george mason
Whoo, the East Mont. vs. Nandua game was CRAZY!
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Carolus Magnus » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:26 am

I want to say congrats to Blacksburg, Maggie Walker, and George Mason. The latter of the three proved that they were the real deal; we're all proud to say that we felt that we won the games we thought we should win and gave Mason our best shot. We're still ecstatic; after nine appearances at state and only coming out in the top five in two, even finishing 2nd is a big confidence builder for us.

Also, thanks to the VHSL for putting on an excellently-run tournament.
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by I'm a goff (in case you couldn't tell) » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:40 pm

On behalf of HSAPQ, I would like to solicit feedback regarding this year's questions, both the state set and all the questions that teams heard this year.

Please note that questions have not yet been cleared for discussion, so if you are unsure if something should be discussed publicly, please feel free to email me at dan at wxdan.net.

I received several positive comments yesterday and also noticed some places for improvement, and I look forward to hearing from other players/coaches.
Dan Goff
HSQB sysadmin

Virginia Tech '13
South Carolina '15
and a couple other places
Not Thomas Dale HS

STAAATS

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The_War_With_the_Eskimos
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by The_War_With_the_Eskimos » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:57 pm

The Motley Eye wrote:On behalf of HSAPQ, I would like to solicit feedback regarding this year's questions, both the state set and all the questions that teams heard this year.

Please note that questions have not yet been cleared for discussion, so if you are unsure if something should be discussed publicly, please feel free to email me at dan at wxdan.net.

I received several positive comments yesterday and also noticed some places for improvement, and I look forward to hearing from other players/coaches.
when will the questions be cleared for discussion?
Andrew Morris
New Kent '10
USMA '14

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FredCamp
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by FredCamp » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:38 am

Here are the A results:

A

Round 1:

George Mason 250 Lebanon 85
Radford 180 Clarke 170
Honaker 200 Matthews 150
Nandua 240 Eastern Montgomery 130

Round 2:

Matthews 190 Clarke 155
Eastern Montgomery 180 Lebanon 125
Radford 140 Honaker 200
George Mason 275 Nandua 160

Round 3:

George Mason 235 Honaker 150
Radford 155 Eastern Montgomery 185
Matthews 135 Nandua 205

Round 4:

Nandua 140 Eastern Montgomery 150

Round 5:

Honaker 205 Eastern Montgomery 140

Round 6:

George Mason 235 Honaker 135
Fred Campbell
VA Scholastic Bowl Commissioner

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FredCamp
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by FredCamp » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:45 am

Oops, Shawn already posted the results.

I also heard lots of positive feedback re: the questions. The only negatives I heard all day were in reference to the noise in the hallways. We sort of nipped that in the bud after Round 1, though it popped up again from time to time. We're working on it.

I'm up for any other feedback about the tournament in general.

And why is Charlie now fixated on Nick Drake? :razz:
Fred Campbell
VA Scholastic Bowl Commissioner

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Carolus Magnus
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Carolus Magnus » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:16 pm

FredCamp wrote:Oops, Shawn already posted the results.

I also heard lots of positive feedback re: the questions. The only negatives I heard all day were in reference to the noise in the hallways. We sort of nipped that in the bud after Round 1, though it popped up again from time to time. We're working on it.

I'm up for any other feedback about the tournament in general.

And why is Charlie now fixated on Nick Drake? :razz:
There was definitely a noticeable difficulty curve from the Region-level questions to State-level, as there has always been, but I don't feel that it hurt any team's ranking; being able to play with higher-difficulty questions is what good teams must be able to do.

The noise was a little annoying, but you're right, it ended after round one. In terms of staffing, I thought this year's crew was better than last year's (though I did miss seeing the "[TEAM X], CAN YOU TAKE IT?" quizmaster) but did have some room for improvement; hopefully as more former VHSL players enroll at William & Mary, you'll have a more experienced staff. Yes, that was a segue for me to mention that I'm willing to volunteer next year.

P.S. I'm through with my Nick Drake phase. Back to Bob Dylan for a while.
Charlie Perkins
Head Coach, Honaker (since 2015-16)
Co-Founder, SWATA
Honaker c/o 2010
William & Mary c/o 2014

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Frater Taciturnus
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Re: VHSL Results & Opinions

Post by Frater Taciturnus » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:25 pm

Marie de France wrote: In terms of staffing, I thought this year's crew was better than last year's (though I did miss seeing the "[TEAM X], CAN YOU TAKE IT?" quizmaster) but did have some room for improvement; hopefully as more former VHSL players enroll at William & Mary, you'll have a more experienced staff. Yes, that was a segue for me to mention that I'm willing to volunteer next year.
- John Harris was in AAA this year.
-Large numbers of former VHSL players go to W&M every year but few if any show up to staff this tournament. It would be really nice if the quizbowl team at William and Mary (who always have one of the largest initial signups I've ever heard of at the start of the year) could provide some kind of staff for this, seeing as how this is kinda on their campus and is a really good chance to talk players into playing for William and Mary, but that would require effort.
George Berry
georgeberry.vcu@gmail.com
--------------
J. Sargeant Reynolds CC 2008, 2009, 2014
Virginia Commonwealth 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013,
Douglas Freeman 2005, 2006, 2007

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