The Quizbowl Resource Center

Moorestown Friends School in Moorestown, NJ is planning on hosting a quizbowl competition on April 24th. The tournament is PACE affiliated. We will use ACF set 10.
There will be a cap of 32 teams, with a maximum of 3 teams per school, unless we decide to expand as the date draws closer.

The event's website is here: https://sites.google.com/site/moorestow ... zbowl/home

You can register by posting on this thread or emailing the coordinator, Tej Trivedi, at [email protected]

$70 per team
$50 per additional team
-$10 per functioning buzzer system
-$10 per experienced reader/moderator
Minimum entry fee: $30

All entry fees are paid at the competition.

Results are posted here: http://results.scobo.net/SQBS.aspx?org= ... =standings

Registered Teams:
East Brunswick: 2 (Buzzers: 1; Moderators: 0)
Hunter: 3 (Buzzers: 2; Moderators: 0)
St. Joes Preparatory School: 2 (Buzzers: 2; Moderators: 1)
Kellenberg: 2-3 (Buzzers: 3; Moderators: 1)

Total: 9-10+ teams, 8 Buzzers, 2 Moderators. (Moorestown Friends has three buzzer sets, which I will add to the total once we know how many teams we are signing up and an unlimited supply of moderators at our disposal)

Expressed Interest:

Half Hollow Hills
Seton Hall
Bergen: 2-3 (Buzzers: 2-3; Moderators: 0)

Could you elaborate on the ACF Question Set you intend to use? Will it be from HSAPQ? Or a mirror of a housewritten set? Or, a set you are writng yourself? This could affect attendance---for example, if you use a great set that has been used at another tournametn---let's say in Delaware, for example---perhaps some teams could not come because they already played the set in Delaware, etc. ,etc. So, elaborating on your question set might help with registrations. We at Saint Joe's might be interested---but we would need to know about the set. And whether or not we can come, best of luck with your tournament!

This is Tej Trivedi, the tournament director for this quiz bowl.

To clarify,
The question set is ACF and will be purchased from the HSAPQ website.

be sure to email me at [email protected] if you want to register

Update: We plan on using ACF set 10

There will also be a trash packet round during lunch in order to give the moderators time to organize the next set of rounds.

Were there any questions you guys had? I noticed the lack of responses, but that may be because the date is still relatively far away.

East Brunswick can probably bring one buzzer set...

Hopefully more schools will register!!!!!

registration for this event will close Sunday, April 11 2010. Currently, there are only 2 teams registered. Unless we get more, we will have to cancel the event.

Summary:

April 24, 2010 (8 am - registration)
ACF Set 10
PACE Affiliated
Trophies to the top 4 teams (individual awards will be given as well)

sites.google.com/site/moorestownfriendsquizbowl for details

email Tej Trivedi at [email protected] to register. You can also post on here.

Registered teams: East Brunswick high school (2)

Let me speak with my team next week. We would love to come to your tournament. You may wish to reach out to St. Joe's, kellenberg, Hunter, Livingston, and Bergen ... all teams planning to head to Nationals this spring. All of them are regular posters here on the board but, should you need contact information, let me know.

Good luck and keep me posted!

- MTZ

Hunter is interested with 2-3 teams. I'll let you know once I get a better idea of how many of our players can come to this.

Our regular season funds are running low but if we can see our way clear, Saint Joe's would love to participate with 1, possibly 2, teams, as well as with 2 buzzers and one moderator. I will let you know as soon as I can, but best of luck no matter what transpires with us.

Okay, cool. I'll add you guys.

Bergen's interested. April seems to be a slow month for the region, so the timing is good.

I'll send a formal email after I get a chance to speak to the team, but we'll probably end up registering 2-3 teams with 2-3 buzzers.

I will be updated the website soon with the teams, and I will also have a registration sheet up tomorrow afternoon.

Let me know if this is innacurate:

East Brunswick: 2 (Buzzers: 1; Moderators: 0)
Hunter: 2-3 (Buzzers: 0; Moderators: 0)
Bergen: 2-3 (Buzzers: 2-3; Moderators: 0)

Interest:
St. Joes: 1-2 (Buzzers: 2; Moderators 1)
Seton Hall: ? (Buzzers: ?; Moderators: ?)

The registration sheet is now up on the website

sites.google.com/site/moorestownfriendsquizbowl

It can be found at the bottom of the "register now" page

Besides Saint Joe's, any other additions to the field since your last field update on the 14th??

only st joes has sent me a registration sheet so far. and aside from the responses on this forum, I havent been contacted by any other schools. I did email the coach for Charter to see if he could forward an invite to other schools.

edit: half hollows high school is also interested and will be sending me a registration sheet soon. they plan to register 2 teams

Be sure to send in registration forms by April 11 (9 days from now!)

send to [email protected]

I have received Registration Sheets from the following:

St. Joes: 2 (Buzzers: 2; Moderators 1)
Kellenberg: 2-3 (buzzers: 3; Moderators: 1)
Hunter: 3 (Buzzers: 2; Moderators: 0)
Bergen Academy: 2 (buzzers 2; moderators: 0)

Interest:
Seton Hall: ? (Buzzers: ?; Moderators: ?)



Moorestown Friends School may also compete as long as I have enough volunteers to read/scorekeep.

this brings the pool to around 7-12 teams depending on how many teams certain schools decide to register

PLEASE BE SURE TO SEND IN THE REGISTRATION SHEETS TO [email protected] BY THIS FRIDAY, APRIL 16

*If you read this post and have the email addresses to any of the "interest" teams, please be sure to let them know that they need to send in a registration sheet so I can start putting folders together. Also, feel free to email any other coaches that may be interested.

**There will be a trash packet round during lunch for any interested teams

***any suggestions or recommendations can also be emailed to me

****sites.google.com/site/moorestownfriendsquizbowl for additional details/information

ACF Set 10
PACE affiliated
April 24 @ Moorestown Friends School in Moorestown, New Jersey (Registration begins at 8 am)

Tej, I just checked your school's registration site and it is confusing. On that site, you have the following 3 teams REGISTERED: Bergen, Hunter & East Brunswick, while having my team, Saint Joe's of Metuchen, as merely expressing INTEREST.

Yet here on the hsquizbowl site, you have my team as the only team registered, while claiming that Bergen, Hunter & EB have merely expressed interest and should therefore contact you by April 11.

Could you clarify for your field as a whole---who IS REGISTERED and who needs to register among those who have expressed interest?

Thanks in advance.

Sorry, the forum is currently accurate. I will update the website now. Also, due to Easter holidays, I realize that some schools may not be able to make the April 11th deadline. I have decided to extend the deadline to Friday, April 16.

Please try to get the forms in as soon as possible, and if you can remind other schools to do so as well, it would be much appreciated!

Thanks Ed

Edit: updated the registration list. 3 schools have sent me registration forms so far. East Brunswick is unable to attend, so they have been removed from the interest list.

Actually, the forum is not quite correct as Kellenberg's registration, which you received yesterday, is not posted here.

And now I apologize for this, but one of my team members pointed out that we have already heard this set at QuAC @ UPenn, so we will have to pull out.

EDIT: OK, now I am thoroughly confused. What set is being used here? ACF Set 10, according to the HSAPQ website, was used at UPenn, where we, St. Joe's, Hunter and Moorsetown competed in November. In the WOHSQB posting about QuAC, mention is made of switching to ACF Set 9, but never clarified. The HSAPQ website says that only TJIAT used Set 9 in Oct.
So, is this the same set used at QuAC or not???

Brother Nigel,

It is my understanding that we heard HSAPQ Set 9 at QuAC---it was switched from Set 10 because Set 10 was not yet ready. Of course, if I am incorrect about this, then Saint Joe's will have to pull out too. But I am almost certain that Set 9 was used by U Penn at QuAC.

EDIT: I went back and did some research---there was a near fiasco at TJIAT---they almost had to cancel because HSAPQ Set 9 was not ready and it was not shipped to them---at the last second Dunbar offered its set to TJ, so the TJIAT was run after all---on the same Dunbar Set we both heard at the Bergen Mirror of it in December. So, THE HSAPQ site is incorrect---Set 9 was not used at TJIAT, and I think for the same reason---that it was not yet ready---SET 10 was not used at QuAC---the finally ready Set 9 was. But I guess the most certain way to find out is to get someone from U Penn or from HSAPQ to verify that it was in fact Set 9 that was used at QuAC. Perhaps someone reading this site can give definitive guidance as well. Can anyone out there help?

EDIT #2: I just checked using the search function here at the hsquizbowl site because I suddenly remembered having a similar conversation with a Saint Anselm's player about the confusion over Sets 9 & 10 earlier in the year, and I came across a forum called "HSAPQ SETS ANNOUNCEMENT" which makes it quite clear that Set 9 was used at QuAC, Set 10 was used at the ZIGZAG Tournament hosted by Saint Anselm's & Gonzaga, and Set 11---a modification of VHSL Sets---would be used by Caesar Rodney at its CRRB on April 17. Hope this settles the issue, but if anyone else out there can confirm this, that would help.

For what it's worth, my notes from QuAC say that they used set #9.

Thanks Lily.

lchen wrote:For what it's worth, my notes from QuAC say that they used set #9.

That's correct.

The Gonzaga/St. Anselm's tournament a while ago used set #10.

And we're using set #11 at CR.

And HSAPQ needs to update their website so it's not confusing the hell out of people anymore. Please.

So, if all of the above is correct, Kellenberg is back in!

Now will it run?

As long as the remaining "interest" teams can send me a registration sheet, we will definitely be able to run the event. Moorestown Friends is waiting to register (I need to see how many volunteers I will need to help run the event)

Again, if any coaches/team members that have visited this forum know the email addresses of the "interest" teams, please send them an email reminding them to send in the registration sheets.

Also feel free to email any coaches that have not expressed interest on here to send in registration sheets! Due to this being the first year for us, we have not yet established a strong contacts list. If any of you could help spread the event details, it would be much appreciated!

Just saw this on your website:

Teams will be randomly assigned into brackets.

Please do not do this. Using a random number generator to make up prelim brackets turned out horribly for BATE a couple weeks ago. While using a rebracketed playoff format rather than single-elimination makes random prelim brackets somewhat less terrible, you'd still run the risk of screwing over some good teams through unbalanced bracketing.

Edit:
Wait, I think I've misread... Does

After a round robin, the top team from each bracket will advance to the finals. The remaining teams will be placed into brackets and will play another 3 or 4 rounds. The finals will be single elimination.

mean that the top bracket will play a single elimination, or does it mean that the final will be a single round (as opposed to an advantaged final)?

It will likely depend on the number of teams that register and how the brackets would turn out.

Originally, I had planned that the top team from each of four brackets would be placed into a new bracket for the second set of rounds and play a round robin within their bracket and the top teams from possibly the top two brackets would play in 2 elimination rounds (semi finals and finals). Not sure if this helps clear up the original intention

however, i am open to any suggestions (post them here or email them to me), especially for how to set up the preliminary brackets

Post your official lineup of teams whenever you get that settled, and any number of unbiased players/coaches/quizbowl people who are not attending this tournament can help you put them in two or three balanced and fair brackets for the preliminary rounds.

Is bergen or Seton hall still interested in attending? I haven't received registration sheets from them (East brunswick and half hollows hill are unable to attend)

currently, we have 7-8 teams registers. Moorestown friends has not registered yet, however we may also submit 2 teams.

REGISTRATION FORMS ARE DUE TOMORROW, DONT FORGET!
Please email any coaches or schools that are under the interest list or may be interested in attending! The tournament is still set to run

bergen has also joined the tournament. I haven't heard from seton hall.

the total field is now at 9-10 teams from 4 schools (plus any teams that Moorestown Friends enters - i'm hoping 3 because 12 total teams might make a nice bracket?)

Kellenberg, when will you be certain of if you are bringing 2 or 3 teams?

Yo, Adrian!

Sorry I haven't been updating this page - I've been focusing on my professional Scrabble career. (Not kidding) I should have had Tej create this thread. Anyway, can all teams confirm so that we can establish a format? Also is East Brunswick still registered? They emailed Tej a while back.

- Ted B.

St. Joes: 2 (Buzzers: 2; Moderators 1)
Kellenberg: 2-3 (buzzers: 3; Moderators: 1)
Hunter: 3 (Buzzers: 2; Moderators: 0)
Bergen Academy: 2 (buzzers 2; moderators: 0)

these are the registered teams

Kellenberg hasn't confirmed whether they are sending 2 or 3 teams yet (seton hall didnt get back to me)

this brings the pool to 9-10 teams. I haven't decided if any (or how many) teams from MFS will compete. How many brackets do you all thing would be appropriate? I was thinking if there were 10 teams, there would be 2 brackets; and if there are 12 teams (MFS being the remaining teams), there would be 3 brackets. Thoughts?

Am I reading your site correctly? It seems only 3 schools have registered in total---SJHS, Hunter & Kellenberg. This makes a field of 3 A teams, plus whatever B & C teams come---it seems there might be 3 B teams and 2 C Teams---for a field of 8. Then you suggest Moorestown might add 1 or 2 Teams for a field of 10---but still only 4 A Teams, assuming Moorestown fields its A team. But can it, since it is running the tournament? Finally, you indicate on the hsquizbowl site that Bergen IS coming but this is NOT updated on your own site. So, could you clarify Bergen's status? And, perhaps, East Brunswick's & Seton Hall's as well? Thanks.

EDIT: Apparently while I was composing this Tej posted the above message, confirming Bergen's presence in the field, which is good news.

TejdotT wrote: this brings the pool to 9-10 teams. I haven't decided if any (or how many) teams from MFS will compete. How many brackets do you all thing would be appropriate? I was thinking if there were 10 teams, there would be 2 brackets; and if there are 12 teams (MFS being the remaining teams), there would be 3 brackets. Thoughts?

If you only have ten teams, you could probably just have a full round robin and then a final if necessary. If you have twelve, I would do two brackets of six in the morning, and then cross-over the top three as a championship bracket and the bottom three as a consolation. One drawback I see to that is that it's only eight rounds plus finals, which isn't much, but if you have twelve teams, you may be stuck with that.

Tej,

On the bracket issue, here are three scenarios---use them or not as you see fit.

Scenario 1: Three brackets for 12 teams is a bit much---that would mean your prelims would only be 3 rounds. Better to have two brackets of 6 for a 5 round preliminary in the morning, then perhaps take the top 3 teams from each bracket in the morning to create a 6 team Championship bracket and a 6 team Consolation bracket in the afternoon, giving each team a guaranteed 10 matches at least. And, if after the tenth match there is only one game separating teams 1 & 2 in the championship bracket, you can hold an advantaged final.

Scenario 2: Given the high calibre of the A Teams coming perhaps you might wish to be more selective while also creating more equitable matches for all involved in the afternoon and pick only the top TWO teams from each bracket, creating a 4 Team Championship bracket, and create two 4 team Consolation brackets as well and then play double round robins for both the 4 team Championship bracket and the two 4 team Consolation brackets, giving everyone 11 guaranteed matches. This scenario would actually be my preference, because after prelims teams would play opponents of similar ability twice each, but now I am editorializing---but to avoid the problems BATE had, perhaps a modest amount of editorializing is needed: Look at the A Teams coming---all four have received National Recognition this year, based upon stellar play at many many tournaments---to keep having them play B & C teams is not really fair to the latter, who, all things being equal, will not be able to really compete with the A teams, whereas the A Teams coming can and have had excellent matches with each other. But in this scenario, these A Teams would still have to earn their spots in the Top 4 Championship bracket by finishing 1st or 2nd in each of the preliminary brackets, but if you seed the prelims based upon performances so far this year, odds are it will be quite difficult---but not impossible, perhaps---to keep these top 4 from ending up in the Championship bracket proposed here. OK, my editorial is now over, but I risked it to avoid the problems BATE had.

Scenario 3: Create one large bracket of 10 or 12 teams and play one large round robin all day, with an advantaged final at the end if the 1st place team only has a one game advantage over the 2nd place team. And perhaps in this scenario a field of 10 might be better than one of 12 because of a potential advantaged final and the additional packets required and/or time involved---but this might mean not playing Moorestown teams at all or perhaps only one of them to keep the number of teams in the field at an even number to avoid byes throughout the day. The benefit of this proposal is the obvious one that everyone plays everyone once; the downside could be too many lopsided scores when the National calibre teams in your field play every C & B team at least once. ( To illustrate this problem: Earlier this year---I will not say when to avoid embarrassing our opponent---my A team defeated a B team 715-0. This benefits no one, so the fewer of these matches, the better, and I am sure you would agree).

So---those are my proposals---use them or not as you see fit. And, perhaps other teams coming might wish to add their two cents. In fact, I hope they do.

EDIT: Jonpin is correct about the B Teams in this field---all are going to nationals themselves, so my concerns in scenario 3 about many potential blow-outs should probably be ignored.

One thing I would suggest keeping in mind is that its always better for a first-time host to run what they're confident with rather than over-extend themselves.

With 10 teams, a full round-robin plus finals is the clear best idea.

With 11 or 12 teams, a full round-robin would be 11 rounds plus finals. This seems, in my opinion, like it could be biting off more than you can chew. I note that on your website, you're listed as "8am - 5pm". If for some reason you have to be out of the building by 5, that might not happen if you run 12-13 rounds.
I would think you should start with 2x6 playing a round-robin. After 5 rounds, it should be about 12-ish a great time to break for lunch, and you can use that time to re-bracket. You have a few options then:
A: 3-3 split, cross-over. Top 3 to playoffs, bottom 3 to consolation. Each team plays only teams in their playoff tier from the other bracket, carrying over results against teams from the morning. This requires three more rounds, and may be less than you want to do.
B: 3-3, full round-robin. Top 3 to playoffs, bottom 3 to consolation. Wipe the slates clean and play a new round-robin. This requires five rounds, giving a total of 10. Downside to this format is that if Team X beats Team Y in the morning and then loses to them in the afternoon, they get no credit for their win at the end of the day.
C: 2-2-2, double round-robin. As Mr. Powers suggested, split into three tiers. Wipe the slates clean and have each team play each other team on their team twice. This winds up being 11 rounds as well, so that potential downside of the full round-robin still exists. You could, if you want, carry over the morning result as one game, so you'd only need 5 playoff rounds. Another downside is that a circle-of-death (3-way tie at one loss) would knock a team out from championship contention. Upside is that with a double round-robin, an unbeaten team clears the field and no final is needed.
I'm not sure I share Mr. Powers's fears of strong B teams being decimated by powerful A teams; Hunter-B at full power can compete with just about anyone, and all four B teams will be competing at national championships.

Before we go too much further into the ins and outs of the formats, I think it would be beneficial for you guys to say how many rounds you're expecting to run.

Lastly, as Mr. C said earlier, there are a number of coaches and other people on the circuit who can help seed the brackets or advise on what approach you should take in doing so once you decide on format. I'm affiliated with Bergen, but I could help if you wish. I may or may not be able to come and staff (I told the team to mark me as "no" and that I would let them know mid-week if I am able to make it).

Either way, good luck with your tournament!

There is no time that we have to leave the building, I just wanted to place a rough estimate on the end time. However, should the tournament continue past 5, there will be no issues from my school.

I will update this post with the total number of teams tomorrow afternoon (I would love to have 12 so that two brackets of 6 could be established). I must first talk with the coach for the MFS teams.

There will be 10 teams. kellenberg is sending 2, so MFS will enter 1 team (we don't have enough volunteers to send 3 teams I don't think)

As I mentioned, there are no time constraints on my end.

As there are 10 teams, what do you (the members of the forum) feel the best tournament form would be? A full round robin with the top 4 teams advancing to play a final? (1st plays 4th, 2nd plays 3rd - winners play for first overall, the losing teams would play for 3rd overall?)

I would just do a full RR with the top two teams playing an advanteaged format final.

That is also fine. There are trophies for the top 4 teams, so would there be any opposition to the following format:

10 team full round robin
top 2 teams play an advantaged final for 1st
3rd and 4th place teams play an advantaged final to determine 3rd place

I was provided with 15 packets; should there be any consolation rounds for teams that dont advance to the finals?

You can, but it'd be best just to leave the extra three packets for tiebreakers/backup in case something goes wrong.

That does make sense.

There will be 9 preliminary rounds. This is a rough schedule of the day:

8 am - Teams register
8:30 am - opening announcements
8:45/9 am - First rounds begins

Here is where there is room to change*

There will be 6 rounds before lunch. This means:
9 am to 1 pm: Rounds 1-6
1 pm: Lunch (timing of the trash packet round could be around 1:20)
2 pm: rounds 7-9
3:45-4pm: Determining the top 4 teams; top scorers
4 pm - Advantaged final between teams 1/2 to determine first; advantaged final between teams 3/4 to determine 3rd.
5/5:30 - Awards are given out

these are obviously only rough estimates. Alternatively, the trash packet could be there as a consolation round for teams - it would then occur dat 4 pm during the finals, but I assumed that teams would want to watch other team(s) from the same school compete in the finals.

the schedule posted above will be the official schedule for Saturday.

A final update: we will be selling snacks for anyone to buy. I belive there will be soft pretzels, hershey bars, skittles, possibly sun chips, and water/coke/diet coke/sprite/snapple. We hope that this is helpful.

We have not decided where the profits of the tournament will go. They will either be pumped back into the quizbowl fund, the science department, or a charity organization. My preference would be the 3rd option; possible organizations would include the March of Dimes or Make a Wish Foundation (two charities that are currently being promoted at my school).

I do have a final question as I prepare the materials for the event: Aside from a map and round pairings, is there anything you all would like to have included in the team folders?

Here are the final standings from Foxtrot I (Bergen B was unable to attend)

1st: Hunter A
2nd: St Joes A
3rd: Bergen A
4th: Kellenberg A
5th: Hunter B
6th Hunter C
7th St Joes B
8th: Kellenberg B
9th: Moorestown Friends

Top Scorers

York, Hunter B, 101.25 ppg
Nik, Kellenberg A, 93.12 ppg
Aaron, Saint Joes A, 71.23 ppg
Lilly, Hunter A, 69.38 ppg
Bacon, Bergen A, 54.38 ppg

I want to thank all of the teams that came out! Especially the moderators from Kellenberg and Saint Joes, who were both a HUGE help.

I hope you all enjoyed yourselves. Please leave feedback on this form if youd like so I can archive it and pass it on to next years event coordinator. Any suggestions or comments are more than welcome!

Thanks,
Tej

Thanks for an extremely well-run tournament, Tej! We all had a great time. Can you please make the full stats available? You can post the SQBS web report online at http://results.scobo.net/.

Tej,

I echo Lily's sentiments---thanks for an excellent tournament and for your willingness to help in any way you could. I hope that this is the first in a long line of "Foxtrot" tournaments. BTW---why the name "Foxtrot"?

Also---congratulations to Hunter A for another outstanding Championship performance.

EDIT: Will stats be posted in the near future?