IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by jdeliverer » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:39 pm

Tegan wrote:Seeding results from Maine South Sectional:

4. Fenwick
Are they good this year? I haven't seen them at all.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:57 pm

I'm surprised that Niles West didn't grab the 8 seed. They just won a tournament, and if winning Turnabout gets you a seed in the Stevenson sectional...
I haven't heard anything of Fenwick - they put up "not bad" stats at New Trier Varsity in the morning, but they didn't stay for the afternoon. I wonder what their record looked like, and what a couple extra losses to Stevenson/DCC or Loyola/Lisle would have done to their "weighted win percentage." It is interesting to see that this sectional isn't immune to the "voting non-competitive quizbowl teams ahead of competitive quizbowl teams that amass losses to the Auburn/Ig/Stevenson/Loyola/Carbondale block because they're winninger."
Apart from that, HOLY CRAP this sectional's seeding isn't a complete debacle.

I'm finding it very hard to not pay attention to the IHSA related threads, even though I'm a huge proponent of not paying attention to the IHSA garbage as long as it's shoddily formatted terrible quizbowl. Can somebody post something compelling in the Huskie Bowl or NW Wildcat threads, perhaps?
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Dan-Don » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:09 pm

The Maine South seeding isn't perfect but is far from terrible. Their All-Sectional team is even more accurate.

As for B-B, it seems fine. But what a weak sectional.

Any news from the other sectionals? EDIT: Particularly, Lisle/Latin.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by jdeliverer » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:13 pm

I emailed Dr. Bardoe but I haven't heard back yet. I know Sam, Seth, and I all made all-sectional but I don't know about seeding.

Still, if it doesn't go

1. Lisle
2. Latin
3. ...

something probably went wrong. I don't know exactly who's in our sectional, but I don't think they're the other big names I've heard.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Dan-Don » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:18 pm

jdeliverer wrote:I emailed Dr. Bardoe but I haven't heard back yet. I know Sam, Seth, and I all made all-sectional but I don't know about seeding.

Still, if it doesn't go

1. Lisle
2. Latin
3. ...

something probably went wrong. I don't know exactly who's in our sectional, but I don't think they're the other big names I've heard.
Don't sell yourself short. There's a good chance you could be the #1 seed based on your reputation and Lisle's lack of IHSA-format results. (I'm assuming, probably correctly, that this is how the other coaches will vote.) Congrats on all-sectional, which is well deserved...hopefully you're all in the top six. That being said, I really want to see Greg D. as number one. Not that it matters (he'll be all-state I'm sure anyways), but I feel he deserves that honor after not being named all-state last year ( :shock: ).
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:31 pm

Dan-Don wrote:
jdeliverer wrote:I emailed Dr. Bardoe but I haven't heard back yet. I know Sam, Seth, and I all made all-sectional but I don't know about seeding.

Still, if it doesn't go

1. Lisle
2. Latin
3. ...

something probably went wrong. I don't know exactly who's in our sectional, but I don't think they're the other big names I've heard.
Don't sell yourself short. There's a good chance you could be the #1 seed based on your reputation and Lisle's lack of IHSA-format results. (I'm assuming, probably correctly, that this is how the other coaches will vote.) Congrats on all-sectional, which is well deserved...hopefully you're all in the top six. That being said, I really want to see Greg D. as number one. Not that it matters (he'll be all-state I'm sure anyways), but I feel he deserves that honor after not being named all-state last year ( :shock: ).
According to greg, he was in fact first but does not know whether Latin or Lisle got the 1st seed.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by jdeliverer » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:55 pm

Lisle is still 3-0 against us H2H, and I think they definitely deserve the first seed based on this year. Either way, I'm looking forward to our (presumable) matches at sectionals and masonics.

Edit:

Lisle 30 wins - 7 losses
Chicago (Latin) 15 wins - 14 losses

One looks a lot better on paper too, though this was before last weekend (6-1).
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Geringer » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:00 am

jdeliverer wrote:
Tegan wrote:Seeding results from Maine South Sectional:

4. Fenwick
Are they good this year? I haven't seen them at all.
I've moderated for them on a few occasions. They're not really good, but they have teeth and I have no doubt they'll win their regional save something crazy happening.

EDIT: NT is the 5th seed, nevermind. On crappy IHSA questions, who knows what will happen, but I'll go with NT on this one.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Aaron Goldfein » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:21 pm

Tegan wrote:Seeding results from Maine South Sectional:
6. Maine South
I'm a little curious how Maine South managed such a high seed, considering its poor performance in the CSL this year.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Edward Elric » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:12 am

So a little birdy told me some info about the WWS sectional:

1. WWS
2. IMSA???


Not sure about the others:
I'd venture to Say that NC and Geneva round out the top 4 and then NN. I found out St. Charles East is 7.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Tegan » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:34 pm

Aaron Goldfein wrote:
Tegan wrote:Seeding results from Maine South Sectional:
6. Maine South
I'm a little curious how Maine South managed such a high seed, considering its poor performance in the CSL this year.
I am not certain whom I am addressing this to, but I will try and give you some insight. Players never attend seeding meetings, though I wish that some could see this some time.

1. There were a total of 7 of the 26 coaches there. This was partially because the seeding meeting was moved one night because the school was closed the day of the actual meeting, and a few coaches had meets scheduled for Thursday night. Nonetheless, this was a significant number of coaches not showing up. Of the 7 CSL schools in the sectional, 2 were represented. So the first part of this explanation is that the teams who knew the CSL best weren't there. This is, sadly, all too common. As I read up column, the sectional seeding meeting immediately north of us had 18 people there. The 7 who come to Maine South is pretty par for the course (last year we had an all time record of about 12 -- I think it was 12). It is one thing to decide "my team has no chance of being seeded", but an entirely different thing to decide not to show up and support teams who deserve support. This is a trend that I wish would reverse itself.

2. I know this will be an unpopular thing for some people to hear, but I will try to put this as directly and truthfully as possible: To some people outside of the CSL, the CSL is not considered a strong conference for quizbowl. Over the past 5-10 years, only New Trier and Deerfield have shown any amount of strength (and only New Trier for any consistent amount of time. Maine South has had a run of about seven good years, but most of those occurred when Maine South had withdrawn from the CSL. So, when an outside coach hears about someone being good/bad in the CSL, it is meaningless to some people. I can tell you that to some coaches, the same thinking goes for the Mid-Suburban League, and might have hurt some of their teams chances of being seeded higher. I don't necessarily subscribe to this, but I know these positions are held by more than a handful of coaches.

The irony of this is that this might be one of the better years overall for the CSL with New Trier, Niles North, Niles West, and to a lesser extent Maine South showing at least a minute amount of promise at tournaments outside the league. The CSL might lack the usual one team knockout that they usually have, but there are more teams above mediocrity this year than probably any in the last ten years or so. I'm not sure about Deerfield (I thought they were supposed to be good, but have not heard a whisper about them).

3. There were quite a few teams who did not submit detailed records. You can look at (for example) a team who is 6-4. This is resepectable, but without knowing who they have beaten and who they have lost to, 6-4 provides very limited information. Coaches were e-mailed on 2-3 occasions asking them to email or fax in a detailed record, if they felt they wanted to try and be seeded. There were 2 teams with winning records and one with a .500 record that never did. This hurt their chances of getting a seed. If that 6-4 record in the CSL saw wins vs. (examples) New Trier, Deerfield, Niles West, Niles North, Maine South, and Maine East .... that's not bad. On the other hand, 6-4 with wins over Maine West, Waukegan, GBS, etc .... maybe not so good. This is why the detailed records need to be submitted for seeding.

4. To some coaches, the team's record is important, but so is their strength of schedule. Having seen Maine South's record, they did play a fairly tough schedule, traveling to several tournaments run on good questions, and still managed an above .500 record (at least on 5-on-5 matches). Since Maine South did have a winning record, and did have detailed records on hand for public inspection, this likely influenced their being seeded higher.

5. One coach at the meeting did speak out on Niles West's behalf before voting again (not one of the CSL representatives). I can also tell you that Maine South in fact voted to seed Niles West, a fact that can be easily verified since the results of the voting were sent to all of the teams in the sectional. Niles West was named on 6 of the 7 ballots, but only once as high as a sixth seed. Ironically, the same voter who gave Niles West its highest vote, also gave Riverside-Brookfield its highest vote (4 seed), which, along with the no vote ballot cost Niles West a seed. When Maine South got a chance to speak, the emphasis was on strength of schedule. I said that I'm not even sure the team deserved to be seeded, and if so, 7th at the highest. I can tell you that both I and the MS coaching staff were a bit shocked to see a 6 seed.

In conclusion, and I am not speaking for anyone other than myself, and giving an acknowledged one-sided view of things: different coaches look at different things when seeding. Some are not even wholly consistent when questioned. However, I think most coaches respect teams who go out and play longer schedules beyond the conference, and who seek out playing tougher teams. While not quite there yet, some coaches also look more favorably on teams who play more of their games in "good quizbowl" vs. the IHSA format. Other coaches (few who were at the Maine South sectional seeding meeting) look for excuses to vote down teams who compete in "good quizbowl" formats, and move up teams who play in the "IHSA formats". Some coaches (the vast minority) vote for friends, who friends want, and won't vote for obviously deserving teams. I have no doubt that to a certain extent "reputation" helps a little. I will also tell you that it is probably easier to not vote for someone when their coach isn't there. It is much easier to convince yourself to vote for a team when their coach is sitting across the table from you, and will in seconds see how you voted. This last part should never be a factor, but I know having talked to coaches that for some, it does.

Full results from the seeding meeting were sent to the coaches. This includes all of the team records that were submitted to me, the ballots of each school that was present, and the ballots for All-Sectional. Different coaches have different attitudes about letting players see that stuff, but it is a matter of public record, and should not be considered private, if he wants to let you look at them.

Here is how I voted ... with a very brief line on my thinking:
1. St. Ignatius (named 1 on all but one eligible ballot)
2. Loyola (would have been closer, but St. Ignatius had a lot more matches and a lot more wins ... even discounting a few of St. Ignatius' wins that were against puffy schools ... a few of their losses were when they were shorthanded. Otherwise, the Loyola/Ignatius pick is not as easy to make).
3. OPRF (great record, and has beaten some good teams, but lacked the resume of the top two)
4. New Trier (30-15, excluding 4-on-4, and played a tough schedule)
5. Fenwick (29-14 a lot of wins against a puffy soft schedule, and really didn't play good quizbowl ... was 1-4 at the Kickoff which was the closest to good quizbowl there was ... had a few quality wins at weakly attended tournaments on what I would consider weak questions; otherwise might have made putting New Trier at #4 tougher; instead made it a no brainer)
6. Fenton (vastly improved team .... had an above .500 record and played a brutally tough schedule on good questions)
7. Niles West (saw some very really good stuff in the lower bracket at Northern Illinois, but aside from that had a very limited resume).
8. Riverside-Brookfield (as I recall, about 15-4, but played a very weak schedule. Had one win over Naperville Central in a bad quizbowl tournament. Was (as I recall) 1-2 vs. Fenton.

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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Matt Bardoe » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:39 pm

Here are full results (sort of) from the Dwight Sectional...

All-Sectional Team – Dwight Sectional
(2 players tied for the 15th position)
Name School
Greg D. Lisle
Aaron S. Roycemore
Donnie M. Dwight
Robert V. Latin
Stephen R. Reed-Custer
Peter M. Timothy Christ.
Naiomi G. Lisle
Quinton G. Seneca
Michael H. Dwight
Justin B. Timothy Christ.
Sam M. Latin
Ben Z. Timothy Christ.
Michael M. Dwight
Matt K. Bishop Mac
Seth P. Latin
Michael S. Lisle


Seeding for Dwight Sectional
(Host schools marked with *)
1. Lisle
2. Dwight*
3. Latin School of Chicago*
4. Timothy Christian of Elmhurst*
5. Peotone
6. Roycemore of Evanston*
7. Westmont
8. Reed-Custer of Braidwood

I feel that Naiomi got a lower number than she probably deserved, but it is hard to tell on a team with such a dominant player. Aaron (AJ) from Roycemore is deserving. Dwight had some good results at a tournament at Winnebago, where they loss to Auburn A by only 200 points :wink: . They had a good match against Bettandorf, and Latin's record does not include any good wins. There were some close games to some good competition, but few wins. Also, the majority of the coaches at the sectional don't have any experience with how strong the teams we play week in and week out are. In the end the only question is whose regional will have Lisle? It could be Latin, Roycemore, or Timothy Christian, you never know...

I am glad that Robert will be considered for All-State, but I worry that his numbers are not gaudy enough, and that no one will give him credit for the schedule. I think Greg D. is automatic.

There were only about 7 coaches there. This may be only my personal preference, but I am ready for online seeding meeting. It is an hour and 45 minutes (one way) to drive to Dwight to have a two hour meeting that could be done in 30 minutes online. What is good about an in person meeting that no one comes to?
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by jonah » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:45 pm

Wait, how is it determined who hosts regionals? I thought it was just the top four seeds.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by David Riley » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm

Matt, I understand how you feel about online seeding vs. travel time involved for face-to-face, but don't you think the problems with coaches who don't consider strength of schedule, etc. will be magnified? Amd then there are ones (like the one that used to regularly be in our Sectional) who would seed a 4-0 team ahead of a 72-3 team.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Dan-Don » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:56 pm

jonah wrote:Wait, how is it determined who hosts regionals? I thought it was just the top four seeds.
I always understood the regional hosts were under a great deal of pressure, but not any obligation, to host a regional. For example, I was made to understand that last year my school wasn't thrilled about hosting because we had a blood drive going on that day after school. But the IHSA contacted our athletic director, and he became really enthusiastic and decided to help our case as much as he could
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:02 pm

Dan-Don wrote:I always understood the regional hosts were under a great deal of pressure, but not any obligation, to host a regional.
You probably mean "top 4 seeds" there.

I think the top 4 seeds are given first dibs on hosting regionals, but can defer/refuse to host if they like. For example, Byron was going to decline to host until Winnebago offered their moderator list.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Matt Bardoe » Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:04 pm

David...

Not really. My experience with this is that the unreasonable people are generally the ones coming to the meeting. Because maybe it is "unreasonable" to drive 3 hours in one night to have a meeting that takes 2 hours complete (and I should say that my meeting was well run, but we needed to wait 1/2 hour to get started because we knew a few coaches would be coming, and we didn't want them to come for nothing, etc.). The people coming to that meeting have a serious agenda, and they have just made a serious sacrifice of time and energy to make it happen. I think the voting should continue to be transparent to some level. We should be able to identify ballots, so if you cast a stupid or "evil" ballot it should be on the record, and everyone should have that information so they know that you are not an honest broker.

I do have some experience with the online balloting, as one year I ran an online balloting session because of bad weather. It worked better. More ballots generally means that the crazy ballots mean less not more.

Dan and Jonah...

Lisle has never hosted a regional. The only pressure I know of is that if we can't find four to host then the threat is that a regional will be canceled. Almost every year in our sectional one of the top four seeds declines.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Matt Bardoe » Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:07 pm

Full disclosure: I go to the meeting... So that probably makes me "unreasonable", though I do try to keep it to a minimum.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Dan-Don » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:10 am

Beussink v. Woodland wrote:
Dan-Don wrote:I always understood the regional hosts were under a great deal of pressure, but not any obligation, to host a regional.
You probably mean "top 4 seeds" there
Er, yeah.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by CometCoach72 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:09 pm

From Tammy Austin, coach of Fairfield, here are the seedings of the Fairfield Sectional (Class A):

1. Effingham St. Anthony
2. Farina (South Central)
3. Newton
4. Albion (Edwards County)
5. Fairfield
6. Lawrenceville
7. Greenville
8. Teutopolis

Regional hosts are Effingham St. Anthony, Newton, Fairfield, and Toledo (Cumberland).


Tammy's words- "The seedings were quite strange..."

I would have to agree with strange. Farina (South Central) is usually pretty good, as is Edwards County.

Anybody know anything about St Anthony, Newton, or Lawrenceville? I'm guessing no...but I thought I'd at least ask. Altamont (the team that came out of this sectional last year) hasn't really been heard from either...I'm going to stick with my sentiment in a previous post, where I think this is a sectional that literally anyone can win.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Stephen Colbert » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:53 pm

CometCoach72 wrote:Anybody know anything about St Anthony, Newton, or Lawrenceville? I'm guessing no...but I thought I'd at least ask. Altamont (the team that came out of this sectional last year) hasn't really been heard from either...I'm going to stick with my sentiment in a previous post, where I think this is a sectional that literally anyone can win.
Effingham St. Anthony qualified for the IESA state tournament (class A) in 2007, 2008, and 2009. Assuming the same players are round for high school, they probably have a solid group of freshmen, sophomores, and juniors. But, they are also the product of a relatively weak sectional (at the IESA-level) and were completely underwhelming at the state tournament in 2007. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess they're a bit overrated as a one-seed.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by the return of AHAN » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:43 pm

So, it seems the lessons I'm taking from this year can be formualted into a 3-step process...
1.)Don't play anyone good
2.) Don't go to tournaments with many good teams
3.) Get a top 4 seed when you report a great record
Results may vary depending on the part of the state you are in. Oddly, the IESA seems to have a handle on this as the seeds I've seen for the past few years (all on-line seeding, FYI) have been appropriate. That doesn't stop upsets from happening, though that has as much to do with the question provider as anything.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by CometCoach72 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:30 am

Moving Day wrote:So, it seems the lessons I'm taking from this year can be formualted into a 3-step process...
1.)Don't play anyone good
2.) Don't go to tournaments with many good teams
3.) Get a top 4 seed when you report a great record

So that's what I've been doing wrong this year. D'OH!
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by the return of AHAN » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:09 pm

Regional pairings are up...

And on that note... Really IHSA? 8 seeded Barrington put up against Libertyville (1 point below us in the balloting & de facto 9 seed) in the 1st round?? While Mundelein and Zion-Benton square off in the adjacent bracket?? BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: And holy crap did Grayslake North get an easy regional. What's the over/under on highest score put up by any team in that regional??? 185? 225?
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by David Riley » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:12 pm

IHSA will say: we only need to really seed 1 through 4.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by mlaird » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:59 pm

So Loyola got the shaft by pulling Niles North via geography. At least they get until the Regional Finals to get used to the (likely) crappy questions.

EDIT: Also, what the hell Glenwood Regional. I don't think I've ever seen one more messed up than that.

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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Deviant Insider » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:10 am

That may be the most messed up Regional ever, but I can remember when the IHSA had #1 seeds play #2 seeds in single elimination Sectional semifinals.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Edward Elric » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:48 am

Hey what's up with no 6 seed in B-B sectional?
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CometCoach72
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by CometCoach72 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:05 pm

Just a wish of good luck to everyone during the bear trap...AHEM...Regional Round of the IHSA.
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Dan-Don » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:59 pm

So, tonight, I assume we'll be discussing Regs in here?

EDIT: Nevermind. I guess someone's putting it in AHAN.
Last edited by Dan-Don on Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Edward Elric
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Re: IHSA Sectional assignments are (finally) up

Post by Edward Elric » Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:14 pm

Is there a universal time that regionals start? I'm trying to get ahold of NC's coach that emailed me about moderating for regionals but he hasn't responded his email in 3 weeks. I was going to go to the school but I need to know when it starts.
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