2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

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kayli
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2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:46 pm

According to the website,
We are currently looking to secure funding for the 2011 season, however at this time funding has not been secured for the 2010 national tournament.
Well, it's already February so it look like NTAE may be dead this year... Most of the money normally comes from the Florida legislature too so I guess they saw the large decrease in teams over the years and decided to cut it? Personally, I'm disappointed because NTAE was really, really fun; and I wouldn't mind going again.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Charbroil » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:04 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:Personally, I'm disappointed because NTAE was really, really fun; and I wouldn't mind going again.
Have you considered: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7719
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:10 pm

Charbroil wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:Personally, I'm disappointed because NTAE was really, really fun; and I wouldn't mind going again.
Have you considered: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7719
I have, but it's going to be hard considering there's no real strong quizbowl authority or presence within Florida.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:12 pm

However, it's going to be hard to beat lazing around in Disney World for a week in terms of leisure >_>.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:16 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:
Charbroil wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:Personally, I'm disappointed because NTAE was really, really fun; and I wouldn't mind going again.
Have you considered: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7719
I have, but it's going to be hard considering there's no real strong quizbowl authority or presence within Florida.
Any four players can submit a bid to represent the state of Florida. You don't have to go through the state to do so.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Eric Huff » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:44 am

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote: Personally, I'm disappointed because NTAE was really, really fun; and I wouldn't mind going again.
While the NTAE/PAC in no way resembles quizbowl in the traditional sense, I think that it's a real shame that the the tournament has died (at least for 2010). I took many teams to this tournament, and repeatedly heard from my players that this was a highlight of their quizbowl careers. No event comes close to the NTAE/PAC in terms of recognizing and honoring the hard work and dedication to educational excellence of high school quizbowlers.

Let me reiterate, the questions/game format were not quizbowl, but in terms of the NON-COMPETITIVE aspects of the tournament, the NTAE/PAC should be a model for how a national championship tournament should be run.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by New York Undercover » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:26 pm

What do you think about the expenses? In my opinion, it's hard to justify not quizbowl for the high prices that Disney World naturally entails, especially if that cost is being footed by a school.

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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Eric Huff » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:16 pm

Certainly, the tournament is/was expensive, but considering all that's included in the registration fee (hotel, food, park tickets, etc.), it's not that unreasonable.

Consider a team of 4 players and a coach traveling to Chicago to compete in the HSNCT. Assume that travel costs to/from Chicago and to/from Orlando are the same.

Registration - $565
Hotel (2 rooms/2 nights) - $525 ($115 per room/night +tax)
Food - $450 (3 days, 5 people, $30pp/day)
Total: $1540 ($308 pp)

Registration for 5 at NTAE - $1875 ($375 pp); That price includes 4 nights at the Contemporary, 5 3 day passes to Disney, all meals (including in-park meals)

Again, the NTAE is more expensive but not so ridiculously apart from what you would pay to go to HSNCT, NSC, NASAT, etc.

Of course, my original point was not that the NTAE was a valid quizbowl national championship, cost effective, or that teams should consider attending that tournament over others, but rather that the tournament (while it had the quizbowl completely wrong) had everything else exactly right. It's intangible and difficult to explain (especially since so few people on the quizbowl circuit have gone), but more than one student of mine told me over the years that never in their four years of playing quizbowl had they ever felt that anyone appreciated the hard work that they put in more than the organizers at the NTAE/PAC. The NTAE went out of its way to make this event feel "special" and different from every other tournament that they played (again, questions and format notwithstanding).
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Cassian » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:30 pm

Just out of curiosity Kay, where was it posted on the Polk County web site that the tournament had no funding? I haven't been able to find the quoted statement from your post, but that's probably because their search function isn't very friendly. I'm curious because I just got an email from another Texas coach about the Texas State Academic Challenge tournament at Sam Houston State on April 10. In the material he sent me, SHSU is still saying that the winner of that tournament will represent Texas at the 2010 NTAE. LASA isn't planning on attending the SHSU tournament, but it does conflict with the planned date of our UGA mirror, so I'm trying to get some accurate information to share with other coaches.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:16 pm

Eric Huff wrote:Of course, my original point was not that the NTAE was a valid quizbowl national championship, cost effective, or that teams should consider attending that tournament over others, but rather that the tournament (while it had the quizbowl completely wrong) had everything else exactly right. It's intangible and difficult to explain (especially since so few people on the quizbowl circuit have gone), but more than one student of mine told me over the years that never in their four years of playing quizbowl had they ever felt that anyone appreciated the hard work that they put in more than the organizers at the NTAE/PAC. The NTAE went out of its way to make this event feel "special" and different from every other tournament that they played (again, questions and format notwithstanding).
To the contrary, i felt like when i went to this (as a junior in 2000), that it was a waste of my time, other than the video games and MGM Studio trip we took. We played TWO games the entire time, didn't do that terribly, but didn't qualify for anything further. Sure it was a fun trip and i guess we were treated pretty well, but i didn't feel that whole camaraderie thing you're talking about... they didn't understand how academic competitions should work, it was a stupid format, and i'm glad it's not around anymore... and i hope it doesn't come back. I would have loved to have gone to HSNCT that year instead but our coaches didn't know a damn thing back then.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Nick » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:33 pm

Yeah, if the game format was more akin to quizbowl as we know it, and we got to play all the games one-on-one instead of how they do it, this tournament would have been virtually perfect in my opinion.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by David Riley » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:51 pm

Hence....NASAT?
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by at your pleasure » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:06 pm

Somehow I dislike the idea of spending quizbowl team funds on something with considerable necessary non-quizbowl expenses. If a team wishes to do that that is their choice, but it should not be included in the registration fee.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by New York Undercover » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:49 pm

Cassian wrote:Just out of curiosity Kay, where was it posted on the Polk County web site that the tournament had no funding? I haven't been able to find the quoted statement from your post, but that's probably because their search function isn't very friendly. I'm curious because I just got an email from another Texas coach about the Texas State Academic Challenge tournament at Sam Houston State on April 10. In the material he sent me, SHSU is still saying that the winner of that tournament will represent Texas at the 2010 NTAE. LASA isn't planning on attending the SHSU tournament, but it does conflict with the planned date of our UGA mirror, so I'm trying to get some accurate information to share with other coaches.
There are, confusingly, two separate websites. The Pok County website has no mention of this, but the NTAE website is where he got that quote

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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by New York Undercover » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:57 pm

Dave Breger wrote:Somehow I dislike the idea of spending quizbowl team funds on something with considerable necessary non-quizbowl expenses. If a team wishes to do that that is their choice, but it should not be included in the registration fee.
Do note that a lot of the separate, non-quizbowl expenses are not being paid for by the team. If you could have three-four days of real quizbowl, against solid teams on a solid format at Disney World, the way NTAE/PAC did it, for the price NTAE/PAC charged, I do think it would be worthwhile. Mr. Huff's calculations, which make sense, show that NTAE is actually not horribly expensive if you enjoy it.
Speaking of that, though, I'd have to say that Disney World is really not that fun. I'd much rather go to a city like Chicago. While the amenities at NTAE were awesome, they are certainly over the top and make it hard to secure enough funding, I'm sure. It's nice that a tournament like NASAT now exists for all-star teams.

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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by CoachJET » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:21 pm

New York Undercover wrote:
Cassian wrote:Just out of curiosity Kay, where was it posted on the Polk County web site that the tournament had no funding? I haven't been able to find the quoted statement from your post, but that's probably because their search function isn't very friendly. I'm curious because I just got an email from another Texas coach about the Texas State Academic Challenge tournament at Sam Houston State on April 10. In the material he sent me, SHSU is still saying that the winner of that tournament will represent Texas at the 2010 NTAE. LASA isn't planning on attending the SHSU tournament, but it does conflict with the planned date of our UGA mirror, so I'm trying to get some accurate information to share with other coaches.
There are, confusingly, two separate websites. The Pok County website has no mention of this, but the NTAE website is where he got that quote
Also, there is no longer a mention of (or link to) NTAE on this site http://www.polk-fl.net/students/academi ... mmissioner, which covers all of the other Polk County-sponsored tournaments such as CAC (the state event) and the local high school and middle school tournaments.

Plus, the fact that the official NTAE site is talking about seeking funding for 2011 instead of this year...that strongly suggests that they have given up on holding an event this June.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:43 pm

I'm kind of glad it's gone. This tourney has drawn some good teams away from real nationals the last couple years, including the KY State Champions (Johnson Central, who won NTAE) last year. Hopefully :chip: goes the way of Panasonic sometime soon.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Unicolored Jay » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:26 pm

Aw, no! Now I have less incentive to win OAC States! :aaa:
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:31 pm

It's official. At this past week's CAC, Lisa Rawls just announced that this year's NTAE has been cancelled due to budgetary restraints.

Hopefully, it'll be back next year though.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Cody » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:44 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:It's official. At this past week's CAC, Lisa Rawls just announced that this year's NTAE has been cancelled due to budgetary restraints.

Hopefully, it'll be back next year though.
Hopefully not.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:28 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:Hopefully, it'll be back next year though.
Why?
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:47 pm

Well, personally, I had a good time. It was the most rewarding experience I've ever had throughout my high school career. Granted, it's not real quizbowl, and it doesn't reward deep knowledge. However, the people there went out of their way to organize a fun tournament. It is the best run tournament I've ever been too, and it's also the funnest. I dunno. I'm not going to be a part of a great team that's going to compete at HSNCT or NSC for a national championship or even get close to that. So having fun is really more important to me personally.

Also, I liked the food much more.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by wexs883198215 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:27 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:Well, personally, I had a good time. It was the most rewarding experience I've ever had throughout my high school career. Granted, it's not real quizbowl, and it doesn't reward deep knowledge. However, the people there went out of their way to organize a fun tournament. It is the best run tournament I've ever been too, and it's also the funnest. I dunno. I'm not going to be a part of a great team that's going to compete at HSNCT or NSC for a national championship or even get close to that. So having fun is really more important to me personally.

Also, I liked the food much more.
Not to belittle your priorities, but couldn't you have tons of similar fun just going to an amusement park or something? It does not seem like you appreciate NTAE due to it's quizbowl aspect.

EDIT: spelling
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:35 pm

wexs883198215 wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:Well, personally, I had a good time. It was the most rewarding experience I've ever had throughout my high school career. Granted, it's not real quizbowl, and it doesn't reward deep knowledge. However, the people there went out of their way to organize a fun tournament. It is the best run tournament I've ever been too, and it's also the funnest. I dunno. I'm not going to be a part of a great team that's going to compete at HSNCT or NSC for a national championship or even get close to that. So having fun is really more important to me personally.

Also, I liked the food much more.
Not to belittle your priorities, but couldn't you have tons of similar fun just going to an amusement park or something? It does not seem like you appreciate NTAE due to it's quizbowl aspect.

EDIT: spelling
Oh definitely. However, most of the fun I had was talking with people, making friends, and just hanging out with people in Disney.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:43 pm

So... you hope next year that your school will sponsor a trip to Disney that happens at the same time as other schools' trips, a trip that won't draw on its quizbowl budget? Laudable!
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:46 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:So... you hope next year that your school will sponsor a trip to Disney that happens at the same time as other schools' trips, a trip that won't draw on its quizbowl budget? Laudable!
My school doesn't pay for me to go. It's Team Florida so they don't have to pay for registration.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:52 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:So... you hope next year that your school will sponsor a trip to Disney that happens at the same time as other schools' trips, a trip that won't draw on its quizbowl budget? Laudable!
My school doesn't pay for me to go. It's Team Florida so they don't have to pay for registration.
Replace "your school" with whatever other organization could plausibly direct its funds in a direction that has more to do with quizbowl, seeing as no one appears to believe that this thing has substantial merits outside of being a vacation where you can socialize with quizbowl people.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:09 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:So... you hope next year that your school will sponsor a trip to Disney that happens at the same time as other schools' trips, a trip that won't draw on its quizbowl budget? Laudable!
My school doesn't pay for me to go. It's Team Florida so they don't have to pay for registration.
Replace "your school" with whatever other organization could plausibly direct its funds in a direction that has more to do with quizbowl, seeing as no one appears to believe that this thing has substantial merits outside of being a vacation where you can socialize with quizbowl people.
Well, that would be the people who would run the tournament who I assure you would not want me to go to another national tournament.

Anyway, yeah, it's not a great tournament academics-wise. But it is well-run, and it is a very rewarding experience. If PACE NSC or HSNCT's question were to somehow fuse with NTAE's logistics, scholarship money, and Disney tickets, then it'd be the best thing ever. I'll be one of the first to tell anyone that HSNCT or NSC would be a more rewarding intellectual experience and that, if you're going to attend a national tournament, your money is better spent at one of those. However, I'm not going to damn NTAE just for being really quirky in their format because it does do a lot of other things well. Mainly, I like that it feels like a reward for the hard work people put into their studies. You don't see a lot of that unfortunately.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Nick » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:24 pm

If PACE NSC or HSNCT's question were to somehow fuse with NTAE's logistics, scholarship money, and Disney tickets, then it'd be the best thing ever.
FACT.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by dtaylor4 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:19 pm

Nick wrote:
If PACE NSC or HSNCT's question were to somehow fuse with NTAE's logistics, scholarship money, and Disney tickets, then it'd be the best thing ever.
FACT.
National tournaments are meant to crown a national champion. If you want to spend a few days having fun, feel free, but don't expect NAQT or PACE to foot the bill. Schools' budgets are already getting tight, so a dramatic rise in entry fees would likely crowd out a lot of teams.

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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:30 pm

dtaylor4 wrote:
Nick wrote:
If PACE NSC or HSNCT's question were to somehow fuse with NTAE's logistics, scholarship money, and Disney tickets, then it'd be the best thing ever.
FACT.
National tournaments are meant to crown a national champion. If you want to spend a few days having fun, feel free, but don't expect NAQT or PACE to foot the bill. Schools' budgets are already getting tight, so a dramatic rise in entry fees would likely crowd out a lot of teams.
Out of the 192 teams going to HSNCT, how many teams do you think are competing for a national championship? There should be a balance between competition and fun time. I think quizbowl is the only competition where the people running the national tournament(s) make no consideration for people having fun between competing.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Huang » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:35 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote: Out of the 192 teams going to HSNCT, how many teams do you think are competing for a national championship? There should be a balance between competition and fun time. I think quizbowl is the only competition where the people running the national tournament(s) make no consideration for people having fun between competing.
You actually need a group of people telling you how to have fun? There are plenty of fun things to do in Chicago or D.C. Use the money you're saving on lower registration fees and explore the city.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Cody » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:37 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:
dtaylor4 wrote:
Nick wrote:
If PACE NSC or HSNCT's question were to somehow fuse with NTAE's logistics, scholarship money, and Disney tickets, then it'd be the best thing ever.
FACT.
National tournaments are meant to crown a national champion. If you want to spend a few days having fun, feel free, but don't expect NAQT or PACE to foot the bill. Schools' budgets are already getting tight, so a dramatic rise in entry fees would likely crowd out a lot of teams.
Out of the 192 teams going to HSNCT, how many teams do you think are competing for a national championship? There should be a balance between competition and fun time. I think quizbowl is the only competition where the people running the national tournament(s) make no consideration for people having fun between competing.
People play Quizbowl for fun. Shocking, I know.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:40 pm

"Quizbowl is the only organization that does x" does not mean that quizbowl is not right to do so. Indeed, I believe it is: it's not a free lunch! Your registration fees are higher when they have to pay for, well, non-quizbowl stuff!
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by dtaylor4 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:50 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:
dtaylor4 wrote:
Nick wrote:
If PACE NSC or HSNCT's question were to somehow fuse with NTAE's logistics, scholarship money, and Disney tickets, then it'd be the best thing ever.
FACT.
National tournaments are meant to crown a national champion. If you want to spend a few days having fun, feel free, but don't expect NAQT or PACE to foot the bill. Schools' budgets are already getting tight, so a dramatic rise in entry fees would likely crowd out a lot of teams.
Out of the 192 teams going to HSNCT, how many teams do you think are competing for a national championship? There should be a balance between competition and fun time. I think quizbowl is the only competition where the people running the national tournament(s) make no consideration for people having fun between competing.
Your assertion about a balance should be left up to the individual teams. As someone involved in running a national tournament, my focus is on the quality of the event. You are right in that we make no consideration, and we should not be forced to, simply because some crap tournament did so, and probably paid the price for doing so, thank god.

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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Kwang the Ninja » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:00 pm

Kay, I think you might have to just agree to disagree, man. It doesn't seem like either side is going to back down, and there's more of them.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:02 pm

SirT wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:
dtaylor4 wrote:
Nick wrote:
If PACE NSC or HSNCT's question were to somehow fuse with NTAE's logistics, scholarship money, and Disney tickets, then it'd be the best thing ever.
FACT.
National tournaments are meant to crown a national champion. If you want to spend a few days having fun, feel free, but don't expect NAQT or PACE to foot the bill. Schools' budgets are already getting tight, so a dramatic rise in entry fees would likely crowd out a lot of teams.
Out of the 192 teams going to HSNCT, how many teams do you think are competing for a national championship? There should be a balance between competition and fun time. I think quizbowl is the only competition where the people running the national tournament(s) make no consideration for people having fun between competing.
People play Quizbowl for fun. Shocking, I know.
This isn't exclusive to quizbowl. I did science fair for fun, and I do math for fun. They all have down time. What's your point?
Huang wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote: Out of the 192 teams going to HSNCT, how many teams do you think are competing for a national championship? There should be a balance between competition and fun time. I think quizbowl is the only competition where the people running the national tournament(s) make no consideration for people having fun between competing.
You actually need a group of people telling you how to have fun? There are plenty of fun things to do in Chicago or D.C. Use the money you're saving on lower registration fees and explore the city.
I'm not a fan of this kind of libertarian-sounding logic. Sometimes, the people who organize the entire tournament can organize a really cool event so people can have fun and meet new people. Often times, they can do this better than individual people can organize something fun to do around a city, and they can definitely get people to come together to have fun than the individual parties can.
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:"Quizbowl is the only organization that does x" does not mean that quizbowl is not right to do so.
I guess that's true. It's just that I don't know why quizbowl doesn't have these sorts of events, but every other major competition does.
Indeed, I believe it is: it's not a free lunch! Your registration fees are higher when they have to pay for, well, non-quizbowl stuff!
In my opinion, it's really nice when competitions provide you with food because that reduces the amount of planning that goes into finding food over x days (most of the time only applicable when x>1). As long as they're not pocketing a lot of the money and everyone's dietary needs (kosher, vegetarian, vegan, etc.) are covered, I don't see a problem with this. Choice is nice, but sometimes choice becomes a burden. However, there's always the possibility that large tournament have meal plans with the option of not getting a meal plan and finding your own food to eat.
dtaylor4 wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:
dtaylor4 wrote:
Nick wrote:
If PACE NSC or HSNCT's question were to somehow fuse with NTAE's logistics, scholarship money, and Disney tickets, then it'd be the best thing ever.
FACT.
National tournaments are meant to crown a national champion. If you want to spend a few days having fun, feel free, but don't expect NAQT or PACE to foot the bill. Schools' budgets are already getting tight, so a dramatic rise in entry fees would likely crowd out a lot of teams.
Out of the 192 teams going to HSNCT, how many teams do you think are competing for a national championship? There should be a balance between competition and fun time. I think quizbowl is the only competition where the people running the national tournament(s) make no consideration for people having fun between competing.
Your assertion about a balance should be left up to the individual teams. As someone involved in running a national tournament, my focus is on the quality of the event. You are right in that we make no consideration, and we should not be forced to, simply because some crap tournament did so, and probably paid the price for doing so, thank god.
This is not always the case. ISEF was run quite excellently and had a lot of fun time. If something can be done to implement a period of down time and socializing, then why not do it? Again, this might not be very applicable in quizbowl. However, do realize that not everyone attending the tournament are looking for a national championship. Some people are going because they have fun doing stuff like playing quizbowl and want to visit DC or Chicago.


Anyways, I guess this sort of mandatory fun just isn't in high demand in quizbowl, and I wouldn't guess that socializing would be in too high of demand in a quizbowl tournament. Perhaps the fun idea just doesn't work here... I guess I'll drop my case here. As Dallin says, I think we should all agree to disagree.
Kay, Chicago.

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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:15 pm

Free lunch isn't literal, dude. I meant that there's no such thing as a free trip to Disney, then, and I would be sorely disappointed if HSNCT tried to charge people a lot more just so that everyone would be forced to stay in Disney and engage in "fun."
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by DrCongo » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:19 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:I think we should all agree to disagree.
Very true. I think it would be a nice idea if all these naysayers just left Kay alone... Is this a quiz bowl thread or some hate-fest? If Kay enjoys NTAE, let Kay enjoy NTAE. If the rest of you enjoy HSNCT or NSC, then enjoy it. I'm not endorsing NTAE, but I don't like seeing people getting shot down on forums for expressing what they enjoy.

User was warned for backseat moderation as a consequence of this post.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:23 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Free lunch isn't literal, dude. I meant that there's no such thing as a free trip to Disney, then, and I would be sorely disappointed if HSNCT tried to charge people a lot more just so that everyone would be forced to stay in Disney and engage in "fun."
Oh, I know. I'm just saying that having lunch provided with some additional money you pay could be nice provided the organizers don't skim some money off the top and that they make sure to provide for all diet types. The hotel prices are comparable to the Hyatt from what I recall, and they get a pretty good deal on Disney tickets so it's not all that bad.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:37 pm

DrCongo wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:I think we should all agree to disagree.
Very true. I think it would be a nice idea if all these naysayers just left Kay alone... Is this a quiz bowl thread or some hate-fest? If Kay enjoys NTAE, let Kay enjoy NTAE. If the rest of you enjoy HSNCT or NSC, then enjoy it. I'm not endorsing NTAE, but I don't like seeing people getting shot down on forums for expressing what they enjoy.
Posts like these break the rules against meta-posting. Do not make them.
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Free lunch isn't literal, dude. I meant that there's no such thing as a free trip to Disney, then, and I would be sorely disappointed if HSNCT tried to charge people a lot more just so that everyone would be forced to stay in Disney and engage in "fun."
Oh, I know. I'm just saying that having lunch provided with some additional money you pay could be nice provided the organizers don't skim some money off the top and that they make sure to provide for all diet types. The hotel prices are comparable to the Hyatt from what I recall, and they get a pretty good deal on Disney tickets so it's not all that bad.
Okay: since a huge proportion of a tournament likes to eat, a free lunch is a nice thing to provide (especially when the hotel where HSNCT was last year, for example, was pretty remote from food options). But why should team-mostly-here-for-the-quizbowl A have to subsidize team-mostly-here-for-Disney B, or else to pay for Disney tickets they don't want?
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:43 pm

If NSC or HSNCT were held in DisneyWorld or did some similarly wide-ranging fun thing to go along with the tournament, the following things would happen:

1) It would take more time, so that'd cause teams and the host to spend more on hotels and related things.
2) It would take more time, so it'd be harder for the quality staffers necessary for a top flight national championship to be present.
3) Teams would have to be there longer, so it'd be harder for teams to get permission from their schools to be there.
4) DisneyWorld/big ticket destination would be more expensive, so that'd cost more money for all parties involved
5) It'd likely be less centric to a serious quiz bowl area, which could harm attendance

These lead to the biggest problems:

6) Teams would have to pay noticeably more money (towards non-entry fee things) for no increase in quiz bowl, which would likely cause a decrease in attendance.
7) The host would have to pay noticeably more money for their expenses from this tournament, which would almost certainly cause a significant increase in the entry fee, which would harm attendance

So, barring a sudden influx of money from a random, overly-generous person who just wants to see a true quality tournament held in a place that has a bunch of mouse ears hidden in random places, I just don't see how it'd be beneficial.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:24 pm

This is true. A lot of money that goes into NTAE, ISEF, and other similar tournaments comes from corporate or private sponsors.

I just thought it'd be nice to have some fun with our quizbowl somehow.
Kay, Chicago.

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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:29 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:This is true. A lot of money that goes into NTAE, ISEF, and other similar tournaments comes from corporate or private sponsors.

I just thought it'd be nice to have some fun with our quizbowl somehow.
Out of curiosity, have you ever attended NSC or HSNCT, Kay? I know I've always had a good time both playing and hanging out with people from various teams in the morning, at lunch, in the evening, and during byes. I remember at HSNCT 08 4 or 5 different Mid-Atlantic teams spent a bye in the hotel lounge together. I also remember running into assorted people while doing things in Chicago during various years. There's no reason to not have fun with your quizbowl, and there's no reason you can't meet people. It might take a little more effort without an organized social activity, but there's plenty of opportunity.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:32 pm

MLWGS-Gir wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:This is true. A lot of money that goes into NTAE, ISEF, and other similar tournaments comes from corporate or private sponsors.

I just thought it'd be nice to have some fun with our quizbowl somehow.
Out of curiosity, have you ever attended NSC or HSNCT, Kay? I know I've always had a good time both playing and hanging out with people from various teams in the morning, at lunch, in the evening, and during byes. I remember at HSNCT 08 4 or 5 different Mid-Atlantic teams spent a bye in the hotel lounge together. I also remember running into assorted people while doing things in Chicago during various years. There's no reason to not have fun with your quizbowl, and there's no reason you can't meet people. It might take a little more effort without an organized social activity, but there's plenty of opportunity.
I've been to HSNCT. Part of the problem though is that down hyar we don't have a huge circuit where we know lots of people. A lot of the people we do know however don't go to nationals. I guess it's possible, but it's still sort of awkward to be like, "Hey, Loyola Academy people, good game! Wanna watch some CSI: Shamwow together?"
Kay, Chicago.

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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:36 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:This is true. A lot of money that goes into NTAE, ISEF, and other similar tournaments comes from corporate or private sponsors.

I just thought it'd be nice to have some fun with our quizbowl somehow.
I think to PACE's target audience, the response to that would be "quizbowl is fun." I don't mean that in a dismissive or derisive manner. I enjoy a number of non-quiz bowl things, as do pretty much every quiz bowler ever. But, that response is the truth - the vast majority of people who come to PACE come because of the quiz bowl, and I don't think anything will change that, nor do I think it would be in keeping with PACE's purpose to change that.

Edited post to reflect what I was writing in response to.
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:38 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:I've been to HSNCT. Part of the problem though is that down hyar we don't have a huge circuit where we know lots of people. A lot of the people we do know however don't go to nationals. I guess it's possible, but it's still sort of awkward to be like, "Hey, Loyola Academy people, good game! Wanna watch some CSI: Shamwow together?"
Seriously, just approach people and have a conversation with them. If the worst case scenario is you have a slightly awkward acknowledgment of each other, then things are okay.
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:40 pm

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:
MLWGS-Gir wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:This is true. A lot of money that goes into NTAE, ISEF, and other similar tournaments comes from corporate or private sponsors.

I just thought it'd be nice to have some fun with our quizbowl somehow.
Out of curiosity, have you ever attended NSC or HSNCT, Kay? I know I've always had a good time both playing and hanging out with people from various teams in the morning, at lunch, in the evening, and during byes. I remember at HSNCT 08 4 or 5 different Mid-Atlantic teams spent a bye in the hotel lounge together. I also remember running into assorted people while doing things in Chicago during various years. There's no reason to not have fun with your quizbowl, and there's no reason you can't meet people. It might take a little more effort without an organized social activity, but there's plenty of opportunity.
I've been to HSNCT. Part of the problem though is that down hyar we don't have a huge circuit where we know lots of people. A lot of the people we do know however don't go to nationals. I guess it's possible, but it's still sort of awkward to be like, "Hey, Loyola Academy people, good game! Wanna watch some CSI: Shamwow together?"
Kay Li,
CSI: Shamwow is my favorite show. See, we would have never made this connection if you didn't awkwardly approach me after the game.
I'm glad we're friends now,
Loyola Academy Person
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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by kayli » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:46 pm

Utahraptor wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:
MLWGS-Gir wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:This is true. A lot of money that goes into NTAE, ISEF, and other similar tournaments comes from corporate or private sponsors.

I just thought it'd be nice to have some fun with our quizbowl somehow.
Out of curiosity, have you ever attended NSC or HSNCT, Kay? I know I've always had a good time both playing and hanging out with people from various teams in the morning, at lunch, in the evening, and during byes. I remember at HSNCT 08 4 or 5 different Mid-Atlantic teams spent a bye in the hotel lounge together. I also remember running into assorted people while doing things in Chicago during various years. There's no reason to not have fun with your quizbowl, and there's no reason you can't meet people. It might take a little more effort without an organized social activity, but there's plenty of opportunity.
I've been to HSNCT. Part of the problem though is that down hyar we don't have a huge circuit where we know lots of people. A lot of the people we do know however don't go to nationals. I guess it's possible, but it's still sort of awkward to be like, "Hey, Loyola Academy people, good game! Wanna watch some CSI: Shamwow together?"
Kay Li,
CSI: Shamwow is my favorite show. See, we would have never made this connection if you didn't awkwardly approach me after the game.
I'm glad we're friends now,
Loyola Academy Person
Oh snap. I can tell that we are going to be friends. I can tell that we are going to be friends. [/White stripes]
Kay, Chicago.

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Re: 2010 National Tournament of Academic Excellence

Post by Jesus vs. Dragons » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:19 am

Kay I didn't participate (read:get chosen) for NTAE last year but I did participate in the CAC, and I know that for most people Disney World was simply a waste of time and money. While my opinion (which was shared with Dallin's) may be influenced by our sponsor insisting we go and "see the parks" (read: don't waste the counties money), it was not a real priority for us. While living in Florida may sway this opinion, I am fairly sure a large majority of people have been to Disney World/Disney Land, and for a person who is 18ish years old, this is not very exciting to do again. Perhaps you could put out a feeler before the HSNCT/PACE and see if anyone wants to hang out or whatever. A large majority of people whom I introduced myself to at GUERRILLA said things along the lines of "Oh, TheLessFamousEthan, nice to meet you" and that was a nice icebreaker. If you are interested in meeting new people at a large congregation of quiz bowl peoples, just organize it.
Ethan Hewett
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Chipola College 2010
Sneads High School 2009

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