HSNCT - Small Schools

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HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by quizbowllee » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:12 pm

Here is the current list of teams that qualify as "Small Schools" at the 2010 HSNCT:

Brindlee Mountain High School (x2) - Guntersville, AL
Kate D. Smith DAR High School - Grant, AL
North White High School - Monon, IN
Chariton High School - Chariton, IA
Danville High School - Danville, KY
Glasgow High School - Glasgow, MO
Pilot Grove High School - Pilot Grove, MO
Salem High School - Salem, MO
Lowellville High School - Lowellville, OH
South Range High School - North Lima, OH
Drummond High School - Drummond, OK
Kingfisher High School - Kingfisher, OK
Rocky Grove High School - Franklin, PA
Brookville Area Jr/Sr High School - Brookville, PA
North Cedar High School - Stanwood, IA
Bauxite High School - Bauxite, AR
White Cloud High School - White Cloud, MI
Williamson Central High School - Williamson, NY
Vermillion High School - Vermillion, SD
George Mason High School - Falls Church, VA

It's hard to make predictions because many of these teams have very little data available on NAQT's results. Some (George Mason) have none at all from this year. Does anyone know anything about some of the more elusive teams on this list?

I'm assuming NAQT will continue with the 4-6 cutoff for Small Schools to enter the playoff. Any word on possible changes?

Finally, would anyone care to make a prediction or two?
Last edited by quizbowllee on Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Jeremy Gibbs-Marangoni Effect » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:27 pm

I've seen two of the teams on the list play this year (Bauxite and Salem). Bauxite had absolutely no experience in pyramidal quiz bowl as of a month ago and upset Malvern, the perennial small school champion in Arkansas, to qualify for HSNCT. Salem is a regular on the Missouri circuit and regularly finishes in the middle of the pack or better at the pyramidal tournaments they attend. I wouldn't say either is a threat to win the title, but both are decent teams.

And just to nitpick - Williamson is in New York, not Missouri.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by quizbowllee » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:32 pm

Jeremy Gibbs-Marangoni Effect wrote:I've seen two of the teams on the list play this year (Bauxite and Salem). Bauxite had absolutely no experience in pyramidal quiz bowl as of a month ago and upset Malvern, the perennial small school champion in Arkansas, to qualify for HSNCT. Salem is a regular on the Missouri circuit and regularly finishes in the middle of the pack or better at the pyramidal tournaments they attend. I wouldn't say either is a threat to win the title, but both are decent teams.

And just to nitpick - Williamson is in New York, not Missouri.

Thanks for the insight.

I corrected the error, though I had originally cut and pasted these right of the NAQT site. I wonder if they had it wrong when I did that or if I somehow did something weird and inexplicable when cutting and pasting....
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:56 pm

We had that wrong in a recent field update; it has now been corrected on naqt.com.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by I'm a goff (in case you couldn't tell) » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:14 pm

George Mason is the perennial Group A (the smallest of 3 classifications in Virginia) VHSL contender for several years now. Since 2002, they have won the state title four times and finished second three. I didn't get to see them play this year, but they seemed to handle the transition to HSAPQ pretty well.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:18 pm

I've played Danville twice, beating them both times, but the second time was on the last bonus part. They'll make a nice run, as they are probably vastly improved since December. Lowellville is from my 'hood in Ohio. They're not very good, on a national scale. We beat them by 450+ the one time we played them.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Scott » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:57 pm

Danville is definitely a great team, especially for a small school.
They did beat us by 5 at a tournament (without 2 of our starters), but we later beat them by 200+.
Both they and South Range could be serious competitors.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:20 pm

The Motley Eye wrote:George Mason is the perennial Group A (the smallest of 3 classifications in Virginia) VHSL contender for several years now. Since 2002, they have won the state title four times and finished second three. I didn't get to see them play this year, but they seemed to handle the transition to HSAPQ pretty well.
George Mason is the real deal. Their captain and best player Asher was pretty awesome at TJ this fall (stats here). They'd be a tough team to beat.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Coach K » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:03 pm

Inkana7 wrote:I've played Danville twice, beating them both times, but the second time was on the last bonus part. They'll make a nice run, as they are probably vastly improved since December.
Jarrett's team of South Range will probably do the same. Those are two of the best matches we've been a part of this year.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by ryandillon » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:47 pm

South Range is legit. We played them at Case, and I know from talking to Jarret that his teammates are working hard and have made vast improvements over the past few months. Jarret is a great individual player by his own merit as well. I think they have a real shot at the title.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by MahoningQuizBowler » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:37 am

Last year's beaten finalist, Russell, lurks on the waitlist 9 spots away from the field...
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Carolus Magnus » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:55 am

George Mason High is definitely beastly. They're a well-rounded team and they're pretty young, too (2 seniors, 7 juniors, and a freshman, last I checked). As mentioned before, their captain, Asher, is an excellent player, particularly in literature and history. They finished 23-0 in VHSL this year and averaged a little over 300 ppg.

I'm pretty sure we qualified for the HSNCT back in early November, as well. I know that if George Mason made the "small schools" cut, we definitely do (their 800 students in 9-12 to our ~400 in 9-12).
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by quizbowllee » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:25 am

This brings up an interesting point - does NAQT ever CHECK the enrollment of these schools? We got put out of the Small Schools Playoff last year by Russell. A simple search of the enrollment database at the Kentucky Department of Education shows that in the 2008-2009 school year, Russell had 183 10th graders, 166 11th graders, and 162 seniors. That's 511 students in grades 10-12.

In fact, in 2008 it says that Russell had 519 in grades 10-12 in 2007-2008, when we placed 2nd to them in the Small Schools Playoffs. I never thought to check it before, but now I'm a little upset. It seems we may have been screwed out of the title.

You say that George Mason has around 800 students in 9-12? In order for them to be Small Schools eligible, that would mean that over 300 students would have to be freshmen. I find that unlikely.

I don't want to open up a can of worms, and I'm not accusing anyone of knowingly misrepresenting themselves. But, some states have different definitions of small schools than what NAQT has established. Perhaps some teams are just checking the box that they are a "Small School" without taking the time to actually check. This needs to be addressed.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by AKKOLADE » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:30 am

Per Wikipedia, George Mason is a five year high school, so it'd average 160 students per grade; assuming an even distribution, that's 480 students for 10-12.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by quizbowllee » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:50 am

The Granny wrote:Per Wikipedia, George Mason is a five year high school, so it'd average 160 students per grade; assuming an even distribution, that's 480 students for 10-12.
They had 465 students in 2008-2009. It's really not hard to find these things.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by STPickrell » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:59 am

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:
The Motley Eye wrote:George Mason is the perennial Group A (the smallest of 3 classifications in Virginia) VHSL contender for several years now. Since 2002, they have won the state title four times and finished second three. I didn't get to see them play this year, but they seemed to handle the transition to HSAPQ pretty well.
George Mason is the real deal. Their captain and best player Asher was pretty awesome at TJ this fall (stats here). They'd be a tough team to beat.
I read to them during the VHSL regular season. They were routinely getting tossups in the first two lines. They're legit.

I am seeing a 190-point thumping of Charlottesville A, third place finisher in AA this year and perennial power. Was that a full-strength C'ville team?

BTW, the last time they went to NAQT, they were 3rd in small schools, without their captain and best player. I think they're better this year than they were two years ago (AJ or Charlie might have an opinion.)
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by quizbowllee » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:49 am

This didn't take long:

Brindlee Mountain High School - 403 students 9-12 (2010)
DAR High School - 480 students 9-12 (2008)
North White High School - 290 students 9-12 (2009)
Chariton High School - 472 students 9-12 (2009)
Danville High School - 406 students 10-12 (2009)
Glasgow High School - 174 students 9-12 (2009)
Pilot Grove High School - 117 students 9-12 (2009)
*****Salem High School - 509 students 10-12 (2009)*****
Lowellville High School - 343 students 7-12 (2009)
South Range High School - 416 students 9-12 (2009)
Drummond High School - 84 students 9-12 (2009)
Kingfisher High School - 357 students 9-12 (2009)
Rocky Grove High School - 491 students 7-12 (2009)
North Cedar High School - 323 students 9-12 (greatschools.org)
Bauxite High School - 306 students 10-12 (2008)
White Cloud High School - 367 students 9-12 (2009)
Williamson Central High School - 415 students 9-12 (greatschools.org)
Brookville Area Jr/Sr High School - 839 students 7-12
Vermillion High School - 396 students 10-12 (2009)
George Mason High School - 465 students 10-12 (2009)


Salem High is the only one that is currently questionable, though a drop of 10 students from last year is certainly not unlikely.

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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:21 pm

greatschools says Salem is at 495.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by quizbowllee » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:25 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:greatschools says Salem is at 495.
I used greatschools only as a last result. Their data is always at least a few years old. When possible, I went to data reports at the respective state department of education websites. Some of them, though, are nearly impossible to navigate.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:02 pm

I was always under the impression that NAQT checked enrollment numbers for "Small Schools." But I guess not?
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by quizbowllee » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:48 pm

Inkana7 wrote:I was always under the impression that NAQT checked enrollment numbers for "Small Schools." But I guess not?
Apparently not.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Matthew D » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:00 pm

For the record.. we have 472 kids (9-12) the last time I check in the office but that might have gone down a little
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:15 pm

Posting to note that we do, in fact, check these numbers. We use ADM (a measure of average attendance), not enrollment figures, and we verify the number from each state's athletic/activities association. (Why attendance and not enrollment? To provide a national standard that doesn't reflect strange enrollment policies. For instance, there is at least one state that counts students attending the statewide math/science academy as still enrolled in their home districts, which would obviously cause some strange effects on the definition of "small school.") Our policy has been clarified here; please let me know if you have further questions.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Kbarnett » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:13 am

In regards to any questions concerning the status of Russell Independent High School, I have verified through our attendance director that our enrollment is 455. In fact, we are even classified as single A in our athletics as well.

I'm a new coach this year and was not involved in the school's participation the previous years, so I have no idea what was or was not submitted in the past. However, the school doesn't seem any smaller this year than in the past.

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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Scott » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:53 pm

Russell is a good team this year. They will have a nice shot at the small-school title.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:03 pm

grayson77 wrote:Russell is a good team this year. They will have a nice shot at the small-school title.
Yeah, they put up really good stats at KY NAQT State.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Scott » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:07 pm

They were very good at history and also good at science.
They were pretty lacking in Literature.

Not having either of our history people pretty much shut us out of the top four at KY NAQT.
I do think that South Range could beat Russell on a good day, though.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill » Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:51 pm

Russell is now in the fold. By the looks of things, they seem to be the statistical favorites right now.
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Re: HSNCT - Small Schools

Post by ryandillon » Sat May 01, 2010 8:03 pm

Inkana7 wrote:Russell is now in the fold. By the looks of things, they seem to be the statistical favorites right now.
You're right up there.
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