ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

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ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Harvard College Bowl will host the fifth annual Harvard Fall Tournament on Saturday, November 13, 2009.

I, Andrew Watkins, will be reprising my role of tournament director, and the tournament will be edited by me and Dallas Simons.

Register through me, by email: I can be reached at [email protected]. In order for me to put you down as having registered, I need to receive an email with "HFT Registration" in the subject line from you. "School X will be bringing five teams" will count for you having registered five teams. "We are thinking of maybe bringing 1-7 teams" will certainly let me know of your interest, and I will note that interest in this post, but we won't consider that a registration of any number of teams.

We are also looking for mirrors for the set. Email me if you are interested.

Questions

This year our goal for the set is fourfold. First, the tossups will be shorter than in previous iterations. Tossups will be capped at five lines of 10pt TNR (exceptions made for the final rounds, but even there questions won't exceed six to seven lines). Second, questions will be easier; the intention is for the set to be barely harder than a regular-difficulty tournament. Third, questions will be rigorously copyedited and finished well before the date of the tournament. Fourth, the set will lack trash entirely, instead featuring 4/4 literature, 4/4 history, 4/4 science, 3/3 RMP, 3/3 fine arts, 1/1 social science, and 1/1 geography.

Tournament format

Rounds will be untimed and consist of packets of 20 tossups and 20 bonuses. Assuming we hit our projected field of 36 teams, teams will be assigned to six brackets of six teams, play a full round robin, and then, after any necessary tiebreakers, get rebracketed into six brackets of six teams, followed by a playoff round robin and subsequent finals (if necessary). This means that every team is guaranteed ten rounds of play, plus the possibility of tiebreakers and finals.

Fee structure

$70 base fee
-$10 buzzer discount

Sunday

We are also going to be running a mirror of Valencia's Delta Burke novice set on Sunday. This set is traditionally excellent for collegiate novice teams, and will provide a great experience for all but elite high school players, too. A separate announcement for that tournament will be up in a couple of days; as it is, teams interested in the Sunday mirror should contact me. Most likely, high school teams and collegiate novice teams will play in the same bracket. In the unlikely event that there is great interest for both groups, teams of each type will be able to ask to be in a bracket of that type alone.

IMPORTANT: FIELD CLOSED AT 36

Field (36) - 36 teams are covered by 18 buzzers - note that teams representing PA, NJ, NY, GA, TX, KY, CT, VA, MA, and SC will be in attendance -- ten states!
State College (6)
Kellenberg (3; 4 buzzers; 1 mod)
St. Joseph's (2; 1 buzzer; 1 mod)
LASA (4)
Dunbar (2)
Norwich Free Academy (2)
Dorman (1)
Hunter (2 teams, 2 buzzers)
E. O. Smith (2 teams, 2 buzzer)
Thomas Jefferson (2, 1 buzzer)
Bromfield (2)
Allentown Central Catholic
Smithtown East (2, 1 buzzer)
Smithtown West (3, 2 buzzers)
Seton Hall Prep (1, 4 buzzers)
HHHW (1, 1 buzzer)
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

Will this tournament be available for mirrors again this year?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by kayli »

Fourth, the set will lack trash entirely, instead featuring 4/4 literature, 4/4 history, 4/4 science, 3/3 RMP, 3/3 fine arts, 1/1 social science, and 1/1 geography.
Love. Love. Love.

If there are mirrors, I hope that there will be one down in the Southeast so I can get a chance to play this.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Hilltopper22 wrote:Will this tournament be available for mirrors again this year?
Indeed.
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:If there are mirrors, I hope that there will be one down in the Southeast so I can get a chance to play this.
Feel free to try to arrange a Florida mirror. I've always wanted one (preferably somewhere that wouldn't detract from the Georgia mirror's attendance) but haven't been able to make one happen.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by TheKingInYellow »

Although we lament the easing of the difficulty, we'll almost certainly be at this, hopefully with another bus load of teams
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Nick »

Thats awesome that you're omitting trash. Just out of curiosity: why harder than regular difficulty at all, even if only slightly?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Nick wrote:Thats awesome that you're omitting trash. Just out of curiosity: why harder than regular difficulty at all, even if only slightly?
Realism. We will be shooting to write a 100% regular difficulty set (though as usual two rounds will be designated finals rounds and therefore be harder). Given past performance, it seems disingenuous to advertise this as a 100% regular difficulty set because we will inevitably misjudge a couple of questions.

Also, I think there's something to be said for giving teams the opportunity to compete on a variety of difficulties throughout the year; achieving this goal would move HFT to a difficulty far, far more useful to teams than 2008's, which in places wasn't too much easier than a regular difficulty college tournament, while still giving it a flavor distinct from regular difficulty sets. The teams that frequently convert third parts of bonuses might, for example, have the opportunity to answer slightly more adventurous third parts; I think that's a good thing without excessively harming the bulk of teams.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

Well I proposed the idea of WKU hosting a mirror of HFT to my teammates, but they rejected the idea outright. Anyway, good luck with your tournament.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by TheKingInYellow »

After reading the ACF Nats Finals Packet, I was psyched to get the question on Talcott Parsons, who I learned about in a Talcott Parsons themed bonus at HFT 2008
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

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TheKingInYellow wrote:After reading the ACF Nats Finals Packet, I was psyched to get the question on Talcott Parsons, who I learned about in a Talcott Parsons themed bonus at HFT 2008
That bonus was markedly harder than the ACF Nationals 2006 bonus on Parsons! Let me be very clear that that sort of thing will do the very very opposite of recur.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Auroni »

We might be interested in mirroring this set again, though we don't know for sure as of right now.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by centralhs »

Could a Georgia Mirror be held on the same day as the main HFT (11/13)? That would be the only good date to hold a tournament in Georgia in either November or December due to the Chattahoochee and Brookwood tournaments, Thanksgiving, and the SAT.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Coach K »

centralhs wrote:Could a Georgia Mirror be held on the same day as the main HFT (11/13)? That would be the only good date to hold a tournament in Georgia in either November or December due to the Chattahoochee and Brookwood tournaments, Thanksgiving, and the SAT.
Have Brookwood and Chattahoochee set their dates yet?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Coach K wrote:
centralhs wrote:Could a Georgia Mirror be held on the same day as the main HFT (11/13)? That would be the only good date to hold a tournament in Georgia in either November or December due to the Chattahoochee and Brookwood tournaments, Thanksgiving, and the SAT.
Have Brookwood and Chattahoochee set their dates yet?
I've no objections to a 11/13 mirror.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by centralhs »

Coach K wrote:
Have Brookwood and Chattahoochee set their dates yet?
Yes, Brookwood will be on November 20 and Chattahoochee is on December 11. I don't know how often Danville would want to make the trek down to Georgia but we would love to have you at our tournament as well. And November 13 it will be, since Andy says he has no objections.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Auroni »

Oh yeah, we will definitely want to mirror this again.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Coach K »

centralhs wrote:
Coach K wrote:
Have Brookwood and Chattahoochee set their dates yet?
Yes, Brookwood will be on November 20 and Chattahoochee is on December 11. I don't know how often Danville would want to make the trek down to Georgia but we would love to have you at our tournament as well. And November 13 it will be, since Andy says he has no objections.
I'll definitely add it to the list of tournaments we're looking at for next year. We'll start putting our schedule together in the next month or so.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by rchschem »

Raleigh Charter would be interested in mirroring this again. I like everything you've said about this year's set, Andy. Less trash means more SCIENCE!
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Steeve Ho You Fat »

If, as you said in your first post, the set will be done early, does that mean that mirrors could happen early? How early would this be?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

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Joe N wrote:If, as you said in your first post, the set will be done early, does that mean that mirrors could happen early? How early would this be?
Ideally we wouldn't have mirrors more than a week prior to the date of the main site. We want the set done early so that we can proofread and perfect it and make sure there are no obscene difficulty mistakes.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Steeve Ho You Fat »

In that case, is there a date by which you want all mirrors to be completed and the set clearable? If we host a tournament next year, I would very much like to use this set, but due to already scheduled tournaments and other scheduling constraints we might not be able to find a date until January.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Joe N wrote:In that case, is there a date by which you want all mirrors to be completed and the set clearable? If we host a tournament next year, I would very much like to use this set, but due to already scheduled tournaments and other scheduling constraints we might not be able to find a date until January.
We're flexible on this point because we can set up a private forum for tournament discussion.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Cassian »

Andy -

At this point, it looks very likely that LASA will be sending two teams to HFT. I'll send you a confirmation email once school's started to officially register, but for now, put us down for two.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Edward Powers »

Saint Joe's of Metuchen, NJ will be there with 2 teams, 1 buzzer and 1 moderator. I sent an email earlier today to confirm this.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Hey--

I just wanted to bump this post to remind everyone that we're still seeking mirrors for this tournament in several regions of the country. This set will lack trash entirely, much like this year's PACE NSC.

Also, registrations have been coming in hot and heavy. Please register now so that we can guarantee you a spot!
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Edward Powers »

Andy, you actually have teams from at least 8 states, since Kellenberg is from New York, a state not included in your earlier list of 7.

And it is a great field already, which I imagine will get only better as November 13th gets closer. Will you still cap the field at 36, or might you let it get larger if there is enough interest?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by kayli »

How much will it cost to mirror this set?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

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Edward Powers wrote:Andy, you actually have teams from at least 8 states, since Kellenberg is from New York, a state not included in your earlier list of 7.

And it is a great field already, which I imagine will get only better as November 13th gets closer. Will you still cap the field at 36, or might you let it get larger if there is enough interest?
Thanks! You're right, of course.

It depends on how many freshmen we retain (and how many people from nearby schools, like Brown and MIT, want to drop by and help out). There's an outside possibility that we could rustle up enough staff for a 48 team tournament, but I'd rather not bet on that right now.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

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Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:How much will it cost to mirror this set?
We've always done $20/team attending, with the possibility of negotiating a different rate if your school is facing tough times financially or if local tournament prices tend to be abnormally low. (For example, we've mirrored it for $15 per before.)
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Kyle »

If you continue getting teams at this rate, this could be the first tournament ever with a field of 36 teams of which zero are from the state in which the tournament is being hosted.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by rpirrie »

Hey--
at least 2 teams for E. O. Smith, with 3 (count 'em! 3!) buzzers.

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by rpirrie »

O.K., so Kellenberg beat us out on the buzzers.

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Hey--

HFT has now reached its provisional field cap of 36 teams. (Smithtowns East and West both may be bringing three teams, which would give us 37; they may bring two, which would give us 35.) We are looking into expanding the field; we've got to send some emails to determine how feasible that is. That said, do not hesitate to register. At the very least, teams in the meantime may drop out, and being registered now will give you priority in getting a spot later. And we certainly may be able to accommodate some larger number of teams--and you can't exactly be part of that group if you never register.

Thanks to everyone who's already signed up; it looks like we may have our largest and most competitive HFT yet.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by SHP Pirate »

Please register Seton Hall Prep for one team and multiple buzzers. (up to four if needed)
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Edward Powers »

Andy, it's good to see that you've reached your goal of 36 teams. And, it seems you might be able to expand the field, since we are still a month away. If you expand, do you have numbers in mind so that both prelims and playoffs would be round robin? Care to share any thoughts on what you might do so that the quality field you've attracted can begin to get excited by the prospects of some amazing round robins within every bracket of the playoffs, or, will you keep this a mystery? Whether you share or prefer mystery, I trust that you will avoid single elimination playoffs at all costs---the one thing that tends to happen when fields are expanded. So---will you share, or will you be mysterious? :wink:

EDIT: Of October 17--- I guess you've chosen to be mysterious!
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

In no case will we run single-elim playoffs. For one thing, I doubt we'd get any more moderators by promising them a shorter Saturday; for another, such a scenario would come chillingly close to requiring me to draw a bracket, an escapade that can only end in horror.

On a separate note, if you're interested in mirroring the set, please let us know! We have a solid group set up already, but we'd always be happy to add more.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Smuttynose Island »

Do you have an estimated finish time for this tournament? TJQB is trying to figure out how it is getting back from this. Thank you.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

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waddle1 wrote:Do you have an estimated finish time for this tournament? TJQB is trying to figure out how it is getting back from this. Thank you.
I'd be surprised if the finals ended after five. I can't make any ironclad guarantees before knowing more about the number of teams (and through that, the format)--but the most rounds that would have to be played in the most likely format is five prelims, one tiebreaker, five playoffs, and two finals, and we can definitely do that in eight hours.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by eromano »

Half Hollow Hills HS West will be attending with 1 team and 1 buzzer set. Thanks!

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

In hilariously unfortunate news, our room reservation requests have been inexplicably "satisfied" by only fifteen rooms spread across three different buildings. There are three other sources of rooms that I can contact; I will be doing so shortly.

(Note that these rooms will at least be usable if we simply have one prelim and playoffs bracket operating in each building. Or two per building if we squat in some rooms. That'll require more logistical wizardry and it'll require one designated staffer per building to keep track of win-loss totals for the whole bracket so that we can do rebracketing fast. It might also delay stats some.)
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:In hilariously unfortunate news, our room reservation requests have been inexplicably "satisfied" by only fifteen rooms spread across three different buildings. There are three other sources of rooms that I can contact; I will be doing so shortly.

(Note that these rooms will at least be usable if we simply have one prelim and playoffs bracket operating in each building. Or two per building if we squat in some rooms. That'll require more logistical wizardry and it'll require one designated staffer per building to keep track of win-loss totals for the whole bracket so that we can do rebracketing fast. It might also delay stats some.)
None of the three other sources of rooms have panned out. The field is closed at 36, meaning that no other schools can register; Smithtown is limited to two teams per cardinal direction.

With heavy heart we must reserve the right to decrease the field to 30--meaning that we would be unable to accomodate Smithtown, HHHW, or Seton Hall Prep--to account for how many rooms we are able to secure. For the time being, the field stands at 36 because there is still hope for getting more rooms/ figuring out a reasonable schedule to accomodate 36 teams on 15 rooms. But in the event that we must decrease the field size to 30, any and all of these teams would be welcome to attend as standby teams--inevitably some team won't show up--or to spectate.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by SHP Pirate »

Andy,

As a coach who has already made travel plans based upon your having included us in your field on this board, I must insist that you get in touch with me as soon as possible.

- MTZ

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

SHP Pirate wrote:Andy,

As a coach who has already made travel plans based upon your having included us in your field on this board, I must insist that you get in touch with me as soon as possible.

- MTZ

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Sent you an email. I hope the resolution I propose is satisfactory.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by SHP Pirate »

Andy,

I have not yet had a chance to look at my e-mail. I do understand your situation, but I need to make a decision soon. I will get back to you via e-mail later today.

- MTZ
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

After talking to persons five and six and directly negotiating with other groups that reserved rooms (from whom a certain other on-campus organization had stolen rooms as well), I've been able to negotiate my way into two more rooms for the whole time, and four more rooms for all-times-but-11:30-12:30. So basically, I'm one room short, but in a way that leaves me with four rooms that are almost useful. I'm willing to take this and declare victory: if everything goes as badly as physically possible we can have one bracket with a bizarrely early lunch, or we can do a crazy squatting system, or something. But we have our rooms, and we can let everyone play. Yay!

Here's the deal, though.

There are now going to be three rooms for this tournament in Sever, and five in each of Emerson, Harvard, and Boylston Hall. This isn't especially convenient. It means that there are two brackets that are going to be split among two buildings (and, unfortunately, not two buildings that are especially adjacent).*

This has potential to slow down the tournament--I'll be quite up-front about that, as it's all but inevitable. We're going to do everything we can to try to hustle things along, though, and to keep non-walking delays to a minimum.

But as of now, HFT will have its full thirty-six team field.

*There's a split-only-one-bracket plan, but it would require me to use all of the rooms that I don't actually have reserved for an hour in the middle of the tournament, during which another student group is using them. I'm erring on the side of having only one room in that situation; if I have a reason to do otherwise, I'll do that and tell everyone.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Susan »

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote: There are now going to be three rooms for this tournament in Sever, and five in each of Emerson, Harvard, and Boylston Hall. This isn't especially convenient. It means that there are two brackets that are going to be split among two buildings (and, unfortunately, not two buildings that are especially adjacent).*
Do these numbers include the rooms that you don't have from 11:30-12:30, and if so, in what building(s) are those rooms?
Susan
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Mechanical Beasts
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

myamphigory wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote: There are now going to be three rooms for this tournament in Sever, and five in each of Emerson, Harvard, and Boylston Hall. This isn't especially convenient. It means that there are two brackets that are going to be split among two buildings (and, unfortunately, not two buildings that are especially adjacent).*
Do these numbers include the rooms that you don't have from 11:30-12:30, and if so, in what building(s) are those rooms?
Yes; the rooms I don't have for that period are in Sever--for six total rooms in Sever (three going unused). Those three would be used in the aforementioned only-one-split-bracket plan. I can't decide which plan is better because in either case there is at least one split bracket and at least one room that's only mostly reserved.
Andrew Watkins
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by rpirrie »

hello--
1 question, one minor unfortunate prob.

1. Checks made out to...who?

2. we lost the power cord to our third buzzer set. Sorry sorry! we can only bring 2 buzzer sets.

Bob Pirrie
E. O. Smith High School
Bob Pirrie
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

rpirrie wrote:hello--
1 question, one minor unfortunate prob.

1. Checks made out to...who?

2. we lost the power cord to our third buzzer set. Sorry sorry! we can only bring 2 buzzer sets.

Bob Pirrie
E. O. Smith High School
To "Harvard College Bowl," please. And no worries on the buzzers; we appear to be just about covered.
Andrew Watkins
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Harvard Fall Tournament V (11/13/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Because of the extra logistical demands associated with a multi-building tournament, it would be wonderful if a couple of coaches who are experienced moderators might volunteer their services. If we end up using you, we'll take $10 off your registration. (If you've already drawn up a check from your school, or what have you, no problem: I can just hand you $10.)
Andrew Watkins
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